Around The NBA : 2023-24 Season #2

[WookieOnRitalin]

Vogel, meanwhile, had all three of his 'Big 3' playing and got swept. I would not say the two situations are directly comparable.

I don't think you can use that narrative either.

Him getting fired was just on impulsiveness and well you cant fire the players.

If we, by all accounts, are praising the Twolves for being super impressive so far in the playoffs, then why would it be a shocker for them to to lose in a sweep? It wouldn't.

People were dogging the Suns for getting swept. Thats because they didnt know how good the TWolves actually were.

Yet they are now beating the Nuggets even worse then they did the Suns. If they dont turn it around tonight, its probably another sweep. If that happens, is it because something Malone did? Or is it because the Twolves just rose better and matchup better?

Vogul isn't great but he isn't the reason why they got sent home like that. The Twolves deserve alot of credit.

My guess is the owner always wanted Coach Budd and now he has the excuse.

I do not disagree. I think Beal was a terrible move for the Suns and Durant is really at the end of his career. I just think the whole situation is suboptimal. What Bud was good about doing was getting MORE out of his role players than other coaches. So we will see if that holds true in Phoenix.

Just funny that the guy that beat them in the Finals is now the HC.

[kodo]

I think everyone agrees Vogel isn't the real problem in Phoenix, but he still didn't do a great job. You're playing against a twin towers team with 2 7 footers and a 6' 9" SF, and he's literally playing a 6' 4" Royce O'Neal at center on Gobert. That elimination game Phoenix actually had a 65% TS, that's an amazing performance from the players. And they still lost because Minny got 17 offensive boards, 17 extra possessions wins the game even if the other team outplays you. That elimination game in the closing minutes in the 4th with the score tied their do or die lineup was their big 3, Royce (6' 4"), Eric Gordon (6' 4"). And Beal their worst defender was on Ant.

In some ways it reminds me of the Donovan situation here. The real problem is our roster construction and lack of real talent, but Donovan playing micro mini ball, not shooting 3s, heavy reliance on iso, heavy reliance on mid range, not playing with any size is still a problem. And Vogel had all the same issues. They're a top 5 iso team, they don't shoot many 3s (despite being one of the most accurate 3P shooting teams in the league), don't play with any size despite having a 6' 11" SF and a 6' 6" PG.

I don't know if it's a Vogel strategy issue or if it's a team not listening to Vogel issue, but it doesn't matter either way. Even if he's preaching the right things but the team isn't listening, they still need a change. Maybe they'll listen to Bud, maybe they won't. But it's surely worth seeing if they'll listen to Bud before blowing up a team that doesn't have their draft picks. All blowing it up does is give Brooklyn & Washington better picks. Bud could not change anything, or even be worse, but I don't think they have any significant roster moves left.

[Ice Man]

I'm not sure what to make of Minny - Denver Game 3. I was about to write that teams that shoot 48% on 3s beat those that shoot 33%, but Denver won by a lot more than just the margin on 3s. I was about to write that Denver's fortunes change bigtime when Murray plays like a star instead of a scrub, but Denver would have won with even a meh version of Murray. I was about to write that KAT is the same old kitty-kat who disappears in a big playoff game, but Denver would have won even if Kat stepped up to the spotlight.

So, shrug, I guess my conclusion is that's NBA basketball. A team looks dead in the water and deflated after a big playoff home loss, and then turns around the next game and plays the doors off the road arena.

[MrSparkle]

I'm not sure what to make of Minny - Denver Game 3. I was about to write that teams that shoot 48% on 3s beat those that shoot 33%, but Denver won by a lot more than just the margin on 3s. I was about to write that Denver's fortunes change bigtime when Murray plays like a star instead of a scrub, but Denver would have won with even a meh version of Murray. I was about to write that KAT is the same old kitty-kat who disappears in a big playoff game, but Denver would have won even if Kat stepped up to the spotlight.

So, shrug, I guess my conclusion is that's NBA basketball. A team looks dead in the water and deflated after a big playoff home loss, and then turns around the next game and plays the doors off the road arena.

Well an NBA series is just getting started in game 3. If I had a nickel for every time the Bulls were up 2 games only to lose… well, I wouldn’t be that rich, cause they’ve rarely been up two.

But dominant, former champs can’t be written off after a 2-0 hole. Jokic is still the best player on the planet imo, and Edwards’ numbers might be unsustainable. Or maybe his bad game was the anomaly. We’ll see next game, but i think MIN lives and dies by his elite scoring, whereas DEN has 2 elite options (altho Murray’s injured, but still due for atleast 1-2 big games).

[kulaz3000]

The Nuggets showing their championship experience. There is that extra great playoff teams and especially championship teams have from their experience, and they have definitely stepped up since going down 2 against the Wolves. It wouldn't shock me if they win 4 straight to win the series in 6, though it would be great if the series goes to 7.

[Ice Man]

That Denver-Minnesota Game 4 was good. Two superstars delivering, at the top of their games. With the difference, as often is the case when the two stars neutralize each other, being that Denver had the 3rd best player -- Aaron Gordon, who was fantastic on the night. Among the best I have ever seen him play.

On the flip side, KAT is eternally frustrating.

[dumbell78]

Crazy sequence to this series. Denver bench stepped up and got just enough from Murray to help Joker. Minny kind of looked desperate today, like they haven't been here before an were the ones down in the series. Weird vibe from them. Ant showed up, KAT was awful, Conley was in foul trouble, and the rest looked out of sorts the whole game.

[dumbell78]

Also shout out to Gordon and the Nuggets bench guys. Holiday, Jackson, and Braun were great in their roles today. Mike Malone did a great job with his rotations and riding the guys that he could.

[Ice Man]

Man, these games are physical. Every Minny guard is playing like Caruso, putting body on body, pushing through screens, bump bump bump. Murray had to work REALLY hard for his 19 points. I don't think he was hurt or off, he was just defended tremendously. Jokic was banged all game, although of course he can work through that. MPJ was shut down, utterly. He's a one-trick pony like Korver, if a defender sticks to him he has no response.

For their part, Minny's twin towers couldn't handle Jokic & Gordon bumping them back in return, they were flailing looking for fouls and fumbling the ball. Ant was immune, but he of course is Ant.

[ChiefILL53]

Ant was goin nuclear but nobody else really stepped up to help. Chuck said during halftime that someone else had to do something (KAT), but it never came. If he's gonna be inconsistent like that, Minny is gonna have to move him for a different type of Stretch 4 who's more mobile and plays better D without fouling.

[Ice Man]

KAT would drive me batty if I were a Minnesota fan. Unlike Wiggins, who was straight-up trash and who never would have tempted me, even when people said to be patient because he was young, KAT is good enough to deceive. But deceive he does.

[kodo]

I'm loving the physical playoffs. In many ways it helped solved the 3 "problem" without any changes, because with the physicality it's tough to just rise up for a good 3P shot.

Threes per game:
SGA: 1.4 (37%)
Luka 2.6 (26%)
Joker: 1.1 (27%)
Jaylen Brown: 1.9 (34%)
Jason Tatum: 1.6 (26%)

I feel like in the reg season this would have been called a foul, Okoro's hips collide with Tatum on the shot. But in the playoffs it's just incidental contact.
https://thehighlow.io/video/ids?ids=248Tsj

[Dan Z]

I noticed that Christian Braun scored 11 points last night.

It's not a big deal that the Bulls missed out on him in the draft, but he did go two spots after Terry was picked.

[dumbell78]

KAT would drive me batty if I were a Minnesota fan. Unlike Wiggins, who was straight-up trash and who never would have tempted me, even when people said to be patient because he was young, KAT is good enough to deceive. But deceive he does.

I have been talking with a few friends over this year and I mentioned to them earlier in the season that for me, both KAT in Minny and Randle in NY should be traded. I think both are fool's gold and cannot be counted on to move forward.

Paying KAT over 50 mil a year is truly horrid. He has a player option of 60 mil in a few years. A combo of Naz Reid and some other serviceable small 4 would be better for the team.

[kulaz3000]

Josh Giddey is traded this off season, book it. They probably should have traded him last season though.

[Indomitable]

Josh Giddey is traded this off season, book it. They probably should have traded him last season though.

Why

[step]

Josh Giddey is traded this off season, book it. They probably should have traded him last season though.

He has lost some of his value/appeal... but they also do have a tonne of picks to offset that easily enough.

I wonder what the market for him would be like... very polarizing player in terms of people's take on his value/skills.

[kulaz3000]

Josh Giddey is traded this off season, book it. They probably should have traded him last season though.

Why

Because his production has been minimized in the playoffs.

[kulaz3000]

Luka has been pretty average in this series so far.

[Dan Z]

Josh Giddey is traded this off season, book it. They probably should have traded him last season though.

Why

Because his production has been minimized in the playoffs.

He might not have been very tradable this season due to his off court issues.