Your offseason plans for the Bulls

[Dan Z]

Come on - that's not what he's saying at all. He said he thinks LaVine could net two 1sts or one 1st and a pick swap. He then showed examples of what other players were recently traded for.

If Mitchell gets 3 picks and two young players in Sexton and Lauri then I don't think it's crazy to think Lavine could get two 1sts

If Mitchell is worth more than Zach and Mitchell went for X you work your way down to find the value of LaVine. Which he did.

Fair enough. He compared them which is why I asked.

I think when you look at those three trades (Mitchell, Beal and PG) you have to look at them in the context in which they were made. Like I said the PG trade was connected to Kawhi signing in LA. The Mitchell trade was a team looking to take the next step forward (Cleveland...who also had to outbid NY for him) and the Beal trade was a team that had just traded for Durant.

Right now Zach is a player who had a down year and missed most of the season due to injury. I'd like to think he has more value than what most people here on this site say he has, but I still think it's limited. What teams do you think Zach would be a good fit on? Do you think those teams should give up two protected first to get him (plus any salary needed to make the trade)?

I know Detroit has been mentioned a few times, but I wouldn't give up two protected picks for him (if I was their GM).

There are 6 teams projected to have $20mm or more in cap space:

1. Detroit
2. Philly
3. Utah
4. OKC
5. Orlando
6. Spurs

I think on every team but OKC Zach would be a significant upgrade.

Will any of these teams be willing to trade pick(s) for Zach? I don't know - some of them should probably be interested in doing if they want to be better - but, not every team wants that.

Worst case scenario not one wants to trade for Zach and the Bulls are stuck with one of the best high-volume high efficiency guards in the entire NBA over the last 5 years.

It's part of what the Bulls, in my opinion, need to figure out.

Can you find a trade for Zach on draft night? If no, I think the plan needs to pivot to building the best team possible around Zach (which to me would mean no DeMar return).

I don't think we need to enter the offseason with flexible plans that can take this team in a multitude of directions.

The first fork in the road to me is Zach and our ability to move him or not on draft night - but that's when a decision and pivot needs to be made.

I'd be surprised if Utah wanted to take on Zach's contract and give up assets to do so. Spurs too, but who knows.

Philly will probably look for something better and maybe pivot to Zach if that doesn't work out.

I agree that AK should look for a trade this off season and if it's not there then play Zach to showcase what he can do. However, I don't think the team should be build around him. It's time to move on.

For being "one of the best high-volume high efficiency guards in the entire NBA the last 5 years" he sure hasn't had a lot of success in terms of wins.

[cubd8]

I think we can get a good amount of picks from our players

Lavine: 2 1sts or a 1sts and a pick swap. Regardless of this board's opinion, he's still an elite score and a team that needs to acquire an "put us over the edge guy". Teams that would give that up for him

Kings, Lakers, 76ers, knicks, and maybe the Nets (depending on how delusional they are about how they good they are)

Damar: We'd only get a 1st from a team that's almost guaranteed to pick in the bottom 5ish of the draft. He's old and it would be a sign and trade situation, so we'd have almost no leverage. Teams that are most probable to give up a 1st for him

Heat and Magic

Vuc: He'd be the toughest but in the *perfect* situation, I think we can get a low 1st for him. I think the Mavs are the only team who would do it

Caruso: He'd definitely get a 1st and I think there's a chance he can land us the biggest package. He's maybe on he friendliest contract in the NBA (even if its for one more year) and he can have the same effect Aaron Gordon had for the Nuggets. There are going to be plenty of people trying to trade for him and there might be even be a bidding war for him. Teams that would trade for him

Thunder, Mavs, Lakers, Cavs, Grizzlies, Rockets, Magic, Philly, Suns, kings, warriors, denver, knicks, bucks, and basically any team that might make the playoffs.

White: I think the Nets and Wizards would trade a lotto protected 1st for him. They both have young cores and need PGs.

There is not indication that that actually want picks for their players. Assuming they resign Demar, they are likely to try and patch together a roster that is competitive again.

[cubd8]

Fair enough. He compared them which is why I asked.

I think when you look at those three trades (Mitchell, Beal and PG) you have to look at them in the context in which they were made. Like I said the PG trade was connected to Kawhi signing in LA. The Mitchell trade was a team looking to take the next step forward (Cleveland...who also had to outbid NY for him) and the Beal trade was a team that had just traded for Durant.

Right now Zach is a player who had a down year and missed most of the season due to injury. I'd like to think he has more value than what most people here on this site say he has, but I still think it's limited. What teams do you think Zach would be a good fit on? Do you think those teams should give up two protected first to get him (plus any salary needed to make the trade)?

I know Detroit has been mentioned a few times, but I wouldn't give up two protected picks for him (if I was their GM).

There are 6 teams projected to have $20mm or more in cap space:

1. Detroit
2. Philly
3. Utah
4. OKC
5. Orlando
6. Spurs

I think on every team but OKC Zach would be a significant upgrade.

Will any of these teams be willing to trade pick(s) for Zach? I don't know - some of them should probably be interested in doing if they want to be better - but, not every team wants that.

Worst case scenario not one wants to trade for Zach and the Bulls are stuck with one of the best high-volume high efficiency guards in the entire NBA over the last 5 years.

It's part of what the Bulls, in my opinion, need to figure out.

Can you find a trade for Zach on draft night? If no, I think the plan needs to pivot to building the best team possible around Zach (which to me would mean no DeMar return).

I don't think we need to enter the offseason with flexible plans that can take this team in a multitude of directions.

The first fork in the road to me is Zach and our ability to move him or not on draft night - but that's when a decision and pivot needs to be made.

I'd be surprised if Utah wanted to take on Zach's contract and give up assets to do so. Spurs too, but who knows.

Philly will probably look for something better and maybe pivot to Zach if that doesn't work out.

I agree that AK should look for a trade this off season and if it's not there then play Zach to showcase what he can do. However, I don't think the team should be build around him. It's time to move on.

For being "one of the best high-volume high efficiency guards in the entire NBA the last 5 years" he sure hasn't had a lot of success in terms of wins.

OKC clearly needs a 2nd scorer. They have great young talent and nice role players, but after SGH, I don't trust anyone to score. They are loaded up with draft picks so can probably make a deal for any player(s) they want with all of their capital so I doubt it would be Zach, but that team needs to add a star who can be that 2nd scoring option.

Unsure who will take on Zach, but I think they will make a deal. Just don't be excited over what they get back. Ideally, it's mainly salary cap relief.

[sco]

If NY is fixated on Spider and keeping Hartenstein, which they should, what about:

CHI In: Randle, Robinson Out: Lavine, #11(ideally Por 1st, but I doubt it will be enough)
NY In: Spider Out: Randle, Robinson, McBride, NY 1st
CLE In: Lavine, McBride, #11, NY 1st

This should be coupled with getting what we can get via S&T for DDR. Maybe NY would be interested in a S&T for Drummond.

We could then roll with Coby, Caruso, Pat, Randle, Robinson with Vuc and Ayo off the bench.

[drosestruts]

For being "one of the best high-volume high efficiency guards in the entire NBA the last 5 years" he sure hasn't had a lot of success in terms of wins.

And why do you think that is? Follow the thought through, what have been the biggest contributors to our lack of success? Which teams/years in your view should have won more games?

It is a matter of fact that Zach has been one of the best high-volume, high-effeciency guards in the entire NBA.

Over the course of 3-season from 2020-21 to 2022-23 two guards in the entire NBA averaged over 20 points per game with a TS% greater than 60%. Two. Steph Curry and Zach LaVine.

When Zach scores a very efficient 50 points in a game against Detroit and the Bulls lose the criticism for some reason goes to Zach. In that same game both Coby White and Patrick Williams started and combined for 0 points yet escaped criticism and it drives me crazy.


I don't think Zach is a 1A player. I don't think DeMar is either. I know they don't work together - and this offseason the Bulls should pick one of them, and for the first time since they've been here, try to field a team that fits and compliments them.

We have never given building around Zach an earnest try.

When Jimmy Butler was here we never build a team designed to maximize Jimmy. Instead we went out and acquired Rondo, Wade, and RoLo.

DeRozan has been great in his 3 years here - but I wouldn't call this Bulls team the ideal roster to have around DeRozan.

We refuse to build complimentary teams around our best players and then seem perplexed as to why they underachieve.

[drosestruts]

and what does building around Zach look like - well one idea would be:

Trade #1: Chicago and Atlanta

Bulls in: Dejountate Murray

Hawks in: Alex Caruso and Coby White

Bulls pair LaVine with his Seattle friend Murray in the backcourt. Their games compliment each other and we hope better chemistry can lead to strong results. Our very own version of the Nova Knicks.

Atlanta gets one of the best guard defenders in the league to pir with Trae while also adding the runner-up MIP Coby to bolster the bench scoring.


Trade #2: Chicago, Lakers, Orlando

Bulls in: Rui Hachimura, Gabe Vincent, Christian Wood, Lakers 2025 1st

Orlando in: D'Angelo Russel, Nikola Vucevic, Lakers 2029 1st

Lakers in: Jonathan Isaac, Ayo Dosunmu, and DeMar DeRozan (Sign and trade ~$25/year)

Bulls add some depth with size while breaking up the DeMar/LaVine pairing which simply doesn't work and send DeMar to a desired location in LA.

Magic are said to have interest in Russell and the fans there still love Vuc who can provide rebounding at the very least, and potentially more if he's able to have a bounce back year in exchange for a talented defender who will only ever at best be a bench player in Orlando behind Paolo and Wagner.

Lakers form a dynamite defensive frontcourt with Isaac and Davis and add a reliable scorer in DeRozan and a good young point guard that fits their team well in Ayo.


DRAFT

Bulls trade #11 to New Orleans for 17 and 21

17 - Yves Misi

21 - Tyler Smith


FREE AGENCY

Play hardball with Williams, threaten to match anything, hopefully get him on a team friendly deal

Should have enough to use some or all of the MLE which I would split between taking a flyer on James Wiseman and Re-signing Drummond


Bulls:

Murray/Ball/Vincent
LaVine/Terry/Bitim
Williams/Craig/Phillips
Hachimura/Smith/Wood
Drummond/Wiseman/Misi

Size, shooting and defense around a dynamic backcourt of Murray and LaVine.

Depth chart is merely a recommendation - everything would be open competition - if Craig outplays Williams he starts. If Wiseman outplays Drummond he starts, etc. etc.

We'd have 5 more players 6'8" or taller than we did last year.

If we get anything from Ball it's just a bonus - a three guard lineup of Murray-Ball-LaVine on paper sounds good to me I just don't trust Ball to be back.

[Dan Z]

For being "one of the best high-volume high efficiency guards in the entire NBA the last 5 years" he sure hasn't had a lot of success in terms of wins.

And why do you think that is? Follow the thought through, what have been the biggest contributors to our lack of success? Which teams/years in your view should have won more games?

It is a matter of fact that Zach has been one of the best high-volume, high-effeciency guards in the entire NBA.

Over the course of 3-season from 2020-21 to 2022-23 two guards in the entire NBA averaged over 20 points per game with a TS% greater than 60%. Two. Steph Curry and Zach LaVine.

When Zach scores a very efficient 50 points in a game against Detroit and the Bulls lose the criticism for some reason goes to Zach. In that same game both Coby White and Patrick Williams started and combined for 0 points yet escaped criticism and it drives me crazy.


I don't think Zach is a 1A player. I don't think DeMar is either. I know they don't work together - and this offseason the Bulls should pick one of them, and for the first time since they've been here, try to field a team that fits and compliments them.

We have never given building around Zach an earnest try.

When Jimmy Butler was here we never build a team designed to maximize Jimmy. Instead we went out and acquired Rondo, Wade, and RoLo.

DeRozan has been great in his 3 years here - but I wouldn't call this Bulls team the ideal roster to have around DeRozan.

We refuse to build complimentary teams around our best players and then seem perplexed as to why they underachieve.

If Zach's such a great player then why aren't the Bulls getting a long list of great offers from teams?

[drosestruts]

For being "one of the best high-volume high efficiency guards in the entire NBA the last 5 years" he sure hasn't had a lot of success in terms of wins.

And why do you think that is? Follow the thought through, what have been the biggest contributors to our lack of success? Which teams/years in your view should have won more games?

It is a matter of fact that Zach has been one of the best high-volume, high-effeciency guards in the entire NBA.

Over the course of 3-season from 2020-21 to 2022-23 two guards in the entire NBA averaged over 20 points per game with a TS% greater than 60%. Two. Steph Curry and Zach LaVine.

When Zach scores a very efficient 50 points in a game against Detroit and the Bulls lose the criticism for some reason goes to Zach. In that same game both Coby White and Patrick Williams started and combined for 0 points yet escaped criticism and it drives me crazy.


I don't think Zach is a 1A player. I don't think DeMar is either. I know they don't work together - and this offseason the Bulls should pick one of them, and for the first time since they've been here, try to field a team that fits and compliments them.

We have never given building around Zach an earnest try.

When Jimmy Butler was here we never build a team designed to maximize Jimmy. Instead we went out and acquired Rondo, Wade, and RoLo.

DeRozan has been great in his 3 years here - but I wouldn't call this Bulls team the ideal roster to have around DeRozan.

We refuse to build complimentary teams around our best players and then seem perplexed as to why they underachieve.

If Zach's such a great player then why aren't the Bulls getting a long list of great offers from teams?

Solid deflection.

Unlike you, I'll actually respond to your questions and points.

I think Zach has a number of factors working against him that impact interest in him

1) his contract - it's large. It's difficult to move large contracts in season, especially when one of those teams (the Bulls) are unwilling to go into the tax as an outcome of any trade and they were within $1mm of the tax. So we needed a team willing to take Zach on while sending us back less money, and do to rules from the NBA - these salaries need to be within a certain range of each other. That certainly complicates things. I've long predicated that there would be more of a market for Zach in the summer than there was in-season, we'll soon learn if that's accurate.

2) Zach isn't good enough to make a bad team good. He'd be a great piece on a competitive team in need of a high-volume, high-effeciency scoring guard. How many competitive teams need that? Let's take a look at teams that made the 2nd round:

Boston - no
Cleveland - no, they have Donovan Mitchell, redundant
Indiana - I suppose Zach would help them but I have no idea how they match salaries or create the space to acquire him
New York - kind of the same as Indiana - is on the path towards being a 2nd apron team already just to keep their current roster together

OKC - nope, they have Jaylen Williams
Minnesota - have some young guy named ANT, may have heard of him
Dallas - think they're content with Luka and Kyrie
Denver - Actually think they would have loved someone besides Jokic and Murray to have scored more than 5 points in a game 7. Not sure what a deal would look like? Something with MPJ??? Are we interested in that?

There's a lot of good guard in the NBA today - this also hurts the market for Zach. It doesn't mean Zach isn't good.


I'd put those two things as the main factors impacting the market for Zach:
1. His contract
2. Bulls unwillingness to enter the tax while being right up against it
3. Lack of need for his role in the market

[MrSparkle]

And why do you think that is? Follow the thought through, what have been the biggest contributors to our lack of success? Which teams/years in your view should have won more games?

It is a matter of fact that Zach has been one of the best high-volume, high-effeciency guards in the entire NBA.

Over the course of 3-season from 2020-21 to 2022-23 two guards in the entire NBA averaged over 20 points per game with a TS% greater than 60%. Two. Steph Curry and Zach LaVine.

When Zach scores a very efficient 50 points in a game against Detroit and the Bulls lose the criticism for some reason goes to Zach. In that same game both Coby White and Patrick Williams started and combined for 0 points yet escaped criticism and it drives me crazy.


I don't think Zach is a 1A player. I don't think DeMar is either. I know they don't work together - and this offseason the Bulls should pick one of them, and for the first time since they've been here, try to field a team that fits and compliments them.

We have never given building around Zach an earnest try.

When Jimmy Butler was here we never build a team designed to maximize Jimmy. Instead we went out and acquired Rondo, Wade, and RoLo.

DeRozan has been great in his 3 years here - but I wouldn't call this Bulls team the ideal roster to have around DeRozan.

We refuse to build complimentary teams around our best players and then seem perplexed as to why they underachieve.

If Zach's such a great player then why aren't the Bulls getting a long list of great offers from teams?

Solid deflection.

Unlike you, I'll actually respond to your questions and points.

I think Zach has a number of factors working against him that impact interest in him

1) his contract - it's large. It's difficult to move large contracts in season, especially when one of those teams (the Bulls) are unwilling to go into the tax as an outcome of any trade and they were within $1mm of the tax. So we needed a team willing to take Zach on while sending us back less money, and do to rules from the NBA - these salaries need to be within a certain range of each other. That certainly complicates things. I've long predicated that there would be more of a market for Zach in the summer than there was in-season, we'll soon learn if that's accurate.

2) Zach isn't good enough to make a bad team good. He'd be a great piece on a competitive team in need of a high-volume, high-effeciency scoring guard. How many competitive teams need that? Let's take a look at teams that made the 2nd round:

Boston - no
Cleveland - no, they have Donovan Mitchell, redundant
Indiana - I suppose Zach would help them but I have no idea how they match salaries or create the space to acquire him
New York - kind of the same as Indiana - is on the path towards being a 2nd apron team already just to keep their current roster together

OKC - nope, they have Jaylen Williams
Minnesota - have some young guy named ANT, may have heard of him
Dallas - think they're content with Luka and Kyrie
Denver - Actually think they would have loved someone besides Jokic and Murray to have scored more than 5 points in a game 7. Not sure what a deal would look like? Something with MPJ??? Are we interested in that?

There's a lot of good guard in the NBA today - this also hurts the market for Zach. It doesn't mean Zach isn't good.


I'd put those two things as the main factors impacting the market for Zach:
1. His contract
2. Bulls unwillingness to enter the tax while being right up against it
3. Lack of need for his role in the market

He’s talented enough to score 25 PPG. And he’s paid a lot, though some ownerships really don’t give a damn about luxury tax. Pretty sure AK could’ve gotten a better return than Zach than Beal did, if he moved before Washington and Phoenix did. (Which contrary to media, I thought the Wizards made out like bandits… 4 unprotected picks and CP3 from a team with 35yo Durant and 33yo Beal? Yes please).

Truth is … He’s been too injured to make it to April unscathed. I think you forgot to mention annual knee surgery. That’s the main problem , before on people’s minds, now magnified.

[Red8911]

And why do you think that is? Follow the thought through, what have been the biggest contributors to our lack of success? Which teams/years in your view should have won more games?

It is a matter of fact that Zach has been one of the best high-volume, high-effeciency guards in the entire NBA.

Over the course of 3-season from 2020-21 to 2022-23 two guards in the entire NBA averaged over 20 points per game with a TS% greater than 60%. Two. Steph Curry and Zach LaVine.

When Zach scores a very efficient 50 points in a game against Detroit and the Bulls lose the criticism for some reason goes to Zach. In that same game both Coby White and Patrick Williams started and combined for 0 points yet escaped criticism and it drives me crazy.


I don't think Zach is a 1A player. I don't think DeMar is either. I know they don't work together - and this offseason the Bulls should pick one of them, and for the first time since they've been here, try to field a team that fits and compliments them.

We have never given building around Zach an earnest try.

When Jimmy Butler was here we never build a team designed to maximize Jimmy. Instead we went out and acquired Rondo, Wade, and RoLo.

DeRozan has been great in his 3 years here - but I wouldn't call this Bulls team the ideal roster to have around DeRozan.

We refuse to build complimentary teams around our best players and then seem perplexed as to why they underachieve.

If Zach's such a great player then why aren't the Bulls getting a long list of great offers from teams?

Solid deflection.

Unlike you, I'll actually respond to your questions and points.

I think Zach has a number of factors working against him that impact interest in him

1) his contract - it's large. It's difficult to move large contracts in season, especially when one of those teams (the Bulls) are unwilling to go into the tax as an outcome of any trade and they were within $1mm of the tax. So we needed a team willing to take Zach on while sending us back less money, and do to rules from the NBA - these salaries need to be within a certain range of each other. That certainly complicates things. I've long predicated that there would be more of a market for Zach in the summer than there was in-season, we'll soon learn if that's accurate.

2) Zach isn't good enough to make a bad team good. He'd be a great piece on a competitive team in need of a high-volume, high-effeciency scoring guard. How many competitive teams need that? Let's take a look at teams that made the 2nd round:

Boston - no
Cleveland - no, they have Donovan Mitchell, redundant
Indiana - I suppose Zach would help them but I have no idea how they match salaries or create the space to acquire him
New York - kind of the same as Indiana - is on the path towards being a 2nd apron team already just to keep their current roster together

OKC - nope, they have Jaylen Williams
Minnesota - have some young guy named ANT, may have heard of him
Dallas - think they're content with Luka and Kyrie
Denver - Actually think they would have loved someone besides Jokic and Murray to have scored more than 5 points in a game 7. Not sure what a deal would look like? Something with MPJ??? Are we interested in that?

There's a lot of good guard in the NBA today - this also hurts the market for Zach. It doesn't mean Zach isn't good.


I'd put those two things as the main factors impacting the market for Zach:
1. His contract
2. Bulls unwillingness to enter the tax while being right up against it
3. Lack of need for his role in the market

Zach may not make a bad team good ( we know that first hand over the years) but at the same time these bad teams need to start somewhere.

Adding Zach to them is an upgrade and makes them at least a bit better than before. Teams like Charlotte or Detroit were really terrible last year and could use someone like Zach to at least be more competitive. Fans need to see something more than finishing in last place.

I do agree a few better teams could use him too as a third option but they will think twice before adding him with his injuries and big contract. Point is Zach can go anywhere but I would give the edge to a bad team getting him. I just hope they get something good in return.

[Dan Z]

And why do you think that is? Follow the thought through, what have been the biggest contributors to our lack of success? Which teams/years in your view should have won more games?

It is a matter of fact that Zach has been one of the best high-volume, high-effeciency guards in the entire NBA.

Over the course of 3-season from 2020-21 to 2022-23 two guards in the entire NBA averaged over 20 points per game with a TS% greater than 60%. Two. Steph Curry and Zach LaVine.

When Zach scores a very efficient 50 points in a game against Detroit and the Bulls lose the criticism for some reason goes to Zach. In that same game both Coby White and Patrick Williams started and combined for 0 points yet escaped criticism and it drives me crazy.


I don't think Zach is a 1A player. I don't think DeMar is either. I know they don't work together - and this offseason the Bulls should pick one of them, and for the first time since they've been here, try to field a team that fits and compliments them.

We have never given building around Zach an earnest try.

When Jimmy Butler was here we never build a team designed to maximize Jimmy. Instead we went out and acquired Rondo, Wade, and RoLo.

DeRozan has been great in his 3 years here - but I wouldn't call this Bulls team the ideal roster to have around DeRozan.

We refuse to build complimentary teams around our best players and then seem perplexed as to why they underachieve.

If Zach's such a great player then why aren't the Bulls getting a long list of great offers from teams?

Solid deflection.

Unlike you, I'll actually respond to your questions and points.

I think Zach has a number of factors working against him that impact interest in him

1) his contract - it's large. It's difficult to move large contracts in season, especially when one of those teams (the Bulls) are unwilling to go into the tax as an outcome of any trade and they were within $1mm of the tax. So we needed a team willing to take Zach on while sending us back less money, and do to rules from the NBA - these salaries need to be within a certain range of each other. That certainly complicates things. I've long predicated that there would be more of a market for Zach in the summer than there was in-season, we'll soon learn if that's accurate.

2) Zach isn't good enough to make a bad team good. He'd be a great piece on a competitive team in need of a high-volume, high-effeciency scoring guard. How many competitive teams need that? Let's take a look at teams that made the 2nd round:

Boston - no
Cleveland - no, they have Donovan Mitchell, redundant
Indiana - I suppose Zach would help them but I have no idea how they match salaries or create the space to acquire him
New York - kind of the same as Indiana - is on the path towards being a 2nd apron team already just to keep their current roster together

OKC - nope, they have Jaylen Williams
Minnesota - have some young guy named ANT, may have heard of him
Dallas - think they're content with Luka and Kyrie
Denver - Actually think they would have loved someone besides Jokic and Murray to have scored more than 5 points in a game 7. Not sure what a deal would look like? Something with MPJ??? Are we interested in that?

There's a lot of good guard in the NBA today - this also hurts the market for Zach. It doesn't mean Zach isn't good.


I'd put those two things as the main factors impacting the market for Zach:
1. His contract
2. Bulls unwillingness to enter the tax while being right up against it
3. Lack of need for his role in the market

We don't really know what Zach will do in winning situations because he hasn't been in many and I don't blame that all on him (Minnesota and the Bulls have both been bad). I think he's an athletic player with a good jumpshot who has his flaws. I'm not expecting to get much for him in a trade and part of that's the reasons you mention above.

If the Bulls felt like he was someone to build with going forward they would keep him, but that doesn't seem to be the case (based on AK's press conference).

[Dan Z]

If Zach's such a great player then why aren't the Bulls getting a long list of great offers from teams?

Solid deflection.

Unlike you, I'll actually respond to your questions and points.

I think Zach has a number of factors working against him that impact interest in him

1) his contract - it's large. It's difficult to move large contracts in season, especially when one of those teams (the Bulls) are unwilling to go into the tax as an outcome of any trade and they were within $1mm of the tax. So we needed a team willing to take Zach on while sending us back less money, and do to rules from the NBA - these salaries need to be within a certain range of each other. That certainly complicates things. I've long predicated that there would be more of a market for Zach in the summer than there was in-season, we'll soon learn if that's accurate.

2) Zach isn't good enough to make a bad team good. He'd be a great piece on a competitive team in need of a high-volume, high-effeciency scoring guard. How many competitive teams need that? Let's take a look at teams that made the 2nd round:

Boston - no
Cleveland - no, they have Donovan Mitchell, redundant
Indiana - I suppose Zach would help them but I have no idea how they match salaries or create the space to acquire him
New York - kind of the same as Indiana - is on the path towards being a 2nd apron team already just to keep their current roster together

OKC - nope, they have Jaylen Williams
Minnesota - have some young guy named ANT, may have heard of him
Dallas - think they're content with Luka and Kyrie
Denver - Actually think they would have loved someone besides Jokic and Murray to have scored more than 5 points in a game 7. Not sure what a deal would look like? Something with MPJ??? Are we interested in that?

There's a lot of good guard in the NBA today - this also hurts the market for Zach. It doesn't mean Zach isn't good.


I'd put those two things as the main factors impacting the market for Zach:
1. His contract
2. Bulls unwillingness to enter the tax while being right up against it
3. Lack of need for his role in the market

Zach may not make a bad team good ( we know that first hand over the years) but at the same time these bad teams need to start somewhere.

Adding Zach to them is an upgrade and makes them at least a bit better than before. Teams like Charlotte or Detroit were really terrible last year and could use someone like Zach to at least be more competitive. Fans need to see something more than finishing in last place.

I do agree a few better teams could use him too as a third option but they will think twice before adding him with his injuries and big contract. Point is Zach can go anywhere but I would give the edge to a bad team getting him. I just hope they get something good in return.

If those teams are interested in him then my question is: what are they willing to trade for him? Detroit and Charlotte shouldn't trade their lottery pick, but they have other assets. If it's picks...Detroit and Charlotte both owe a 2025 pick to other teams (Detroit to NY, Charlotte to SA) so the earliest pick they can trade is one 2027.

[drosestruts]

If Zach's such a great player then why aren't the Bulls getting a long list of great offers from teams?

Solid deflection.

Unlike you, I'll actually respond to your questions and points.

I think Zach has a number of factors working against him that impact interest in him

1) his contract - it's large. It's difficult to move large contracts in season, especially when one of those teams (the Bulls) are unwilling to go into the tax as an outcome of any trade and they were within $1mm of the tax. So we needed a team willing to take Zach on while sending us back less money, and do to rules from the NBA - these salaries need to be within a certain range of each other. That certainly complicates things. I've long predicated that there would be more of a market for Zach in the summer than there was in-season, we'll soon learn if that's accurate.

2) Zach isn't good enough to make a bad team good. He'd be a great piece on a competitive team in need of a high-volume, high-effeciency scoring guard. How many competitive teams need that? Let's take a look at teams that made the 2nd round:

Boston - no
Cleveland - no, they have Donovan Mitchell, redundant
Indiana - I suppose Zach would help them but I have no idea how they match salaries or create the space to acquire him
New York - kind of the same as Indiana - is on the path towards being a 2nd apron team already just to keep their current roster together

OKC - nope, they have Jaylen Williams
Minnesota - have some young guy named ANT, may have heard of him
Dallas - think they're content with Luka and Kyrie
Denver - Actually think they would have loved someone besides Jokic and Murray to have scored more than 5 points in a game 7. Not sure what a deal would look like? Something with MPJ??? Are we interested in that?

There's a lot of good guard in the NBA today - this also hurts the market for Zach. It doesn't mean Zach isn't good.


I'd put those two things as the main factors impacting the market for Zach:
1. His contract
2. Bulls unwillingness to enter the tax while being right up against it
3. Lack of need for his role in the market

We don't really know what Zach will do in winning situations because he hasn't been in many and I don't blame that all on him (Minnesota and the Bulls have both been bad). I think he's an athletic player with a good jumpshot who has his flaws. I'm not expecting to get much for him in a trade and part of that's the reasons you mention above.

If the Bulls felt like he was someone to build with going forward they would keep him, but that doesn't seem to be the case (based on AK's press conference).

I don't think my ideal path would be building a team around Zach.

I also think the idea of trying to rehabilitate Zach's value for half a season is a flawed approach that I am very uninterested in pursuing. Several of the factors mentioned above (difficult to move such a large contract in-season, limitation in salary coming back due to luxury tax avoidance) are likely to be factors again this season.

On top of that - I think the data shows that LaVine and DeRozan simply don't work well together - so we'd be trying to rehabilitate his value in a situation that doesn't allow him to play his best basketball and be properly showcased.

It's quite the pickle we find ourselves in.

So I don't think building around Zach is ideal - but based on other factors I do see a scenario where it's our best short-term move.

[MrSparkle]

MIN couldn't build around KAT. But then they drafted Edwards, and having him on the roster at a bloated salary isn't so bad.

I was hoping for that type of development with Zach. Treading water and finding better players in the meantime (since Zach's not dominating/winning, anyway). I never expected Demar to be the solid rock we'd lean on after his 3y deal. Especially with 22yo Lonzo and Caruso signing the longer 4y deals. The oldest guy is the most deserving of a big extension? What? This has all failed tremendously.

[Dan Z]

Solid deflection.

Unlike you, I'll actually respond to your questions and points.

I think Zach has a number of factors working against him that impact interest in him

1) his contract - it's large. It's difficult to move large contracts in season, especially when one of those teams (the Bulls) are unwilling to go into the tax as an outcome of any trade and they were within $1mm of the tax. So we needed a team willing to take Zach on while sending us back less money, and do to rules from the NBA - these salaries need to be within a certain range of each other. That certainly complicates things. I've long predicated that there would be more of a market for Zach in the summer than there was in-season, we'll soon learn if that's accurate.

2) Zach isn't good enough to make a bad team good. He'd be a great piece on a competitive team in need of a high-volume, high-effeciency scoring guard. How many competitive teams need that? Let's take a look at teams that made the 2nd round:

Boston - no
Cleveland - no, they have Donovan Mitchell, redundant
Indiana - I suppose Zach would help them but I have no idea how they match salaries or create the space to acquire him
New York - kind of the same as Indiana - is on the path towards being a 2nd apron team already just to keep their current roster together

OKC - nope, they have Jaylen Williams
Minnesota - have some young guy named ANT, may have heard of him
Dallas - think they're content with Luka and Kyrie
Denver - Actually think they would have loved someone besides Jokic and Murray to have scored more than 5 points in a game 7. Not sure what a deal would look like? Something with MPJ??? Are we interested in that?

There's a lot of good guard in the NBA today - this also hurts the market for Zach. It doesn't mean Zach isn't good.


I'd put those two things as the main factors impacting the market for Zach:
1. His contract
2. Bulls unwillingness to enter the tax while being right up against it
3. Lack of need for his role in the market

We don't really know what Zach will do in winning situations because he hasn't been in many and I don't blame that all on him (Minnesota and the Bulls have both been bad). I think he's an athletic player with a good jumpshot who has his flaws. I'm not expecting to get much for him in a trade and part of that's the reasons you mention above.

If the Bulls felt like he was someone to build with going forward they would keep him, but that doesn't seem to be the case (based on AK's press conference).

I don't think my ideal path would be building a team around Zach.

I also think the idea of trying to rehabilitate Zach's value for half a season is a flawed approach that I am very uninterested in pursuing. Several of the factors mentioned above (difficult to move such a large contract in-season, limitation in salary coming back due to luxury tax avoidance) are likely to be factors again this season.

On top of that - I think the data shows that LaVine and DeRozan simply don't work well together - so we'd be trying to rehabilitate his value in a situation that doesn't allow him to play his best basketball and be properly showcased.

It's quite the pickle we find ourselves in.

So I don't think building around Zach is ideal - but based on other factors I do see a scenario where it's our best short-term move.

My impression is that both Zach and the Bulls want to move on. Maybe they can make a deal this off season, but it's possible that teams will wait to see if he's healthy and playing at a top level again.

Are you suggesting that the Bulls spent next year with Zach as the #1 player on the team? Would you go beyond next year with that?

Zach's a professional, so he probably won't complain, but like I said I think he wants to move on.

[Repeat 3-peat]

Wrong thread.

[MGB8]

With the new TV contract, maybe it’s time to re-evaluate on Zach? See if he can bounce back and maybe the too large contract won’t look so bad.

[patryk7754]

With the new TV contract, maybe it’s time to re-evaluate on Zach? See if he can bounce back and maybe the too large contract won’t look so bad.

Yea, if players are making 70/80m (and I saw it could be up to 95m with the new deal) Lavine's contract is a bargin. It would depend on how soon the new tv deal affects the salary cap.

[Guru]

Just Did a real beaut on Fanspo

Bulls Get
Ben Simmons-Nets
Zach Collins-Spurs
Dorian Finney-Smith-Nets
Nic Claxton-Nets 4yrs 22M pers Sign and Trade because he wants to go to a contender

Nets Get
Zach Lavine-Bulls
Nikola Vucevic-Bulls
DeVonte Graham-Spurs

Spurs Get
DeMar DeRozan-Bulls 3 years 28M per Sign and Trade

Spurs give up very little to jump start their winning
Bulls get out from under their Big 3, get a centerpiece as a very solid starter but have to take on Simmons to get him
Nets get rid of Simmons and net 2 starters to go with Bridges. Able to shakeup their roster without their draft pick.

Draft Dalton Knecht at 11. Your roster is much more fun and probably competitive.

1 White 6'5 195 23 2 Dosunmo 6'5 200 23 2 Carter 6'1 200 27 2
2 Caruso 6'5 186 29 1 Simmons 6-10 240 27 Bitim 6'6 215 24 0
3 Knecht 6'6 23 Terry 6'7 195 21 3 Craig 6'5 221 32 1
4 Williams 6'7 215 21 1 Finney-Smith 6-7 220 31 Phillips 6'8 198 20 3
5 Claxton 6'11 215 3 Collins 6'11 250 26 Sonogo 6'9 245 21 0

[Muzbar]

Bulls Get
Nic Claxton-Nets 4yrs 22M pers Sign and Trade because he wants to go to a contender

So then why does he agree to a trade to Chicago?