Bears 6.0 - Bear Witness to their 1st elite offense

[dougthonus]

The flaw in your argument is that you’re extrapolating Poles’ entire view of the roster and its direction based on the Claypool trade. It’s entirely possible his calculation was that the move would help finalize his decision on Justin, possibly pay off with a young prospect at a premium position AND that the move would have a neglible chance of improving our record in a meaningful way no matter how Claypool performed. It was one move, not an overarching team building philosophy.

Do you think Poles wanted to tank? I think no. If you are tanking you don't trade your 2nd rounder.

Do you think Poles thought we were in the running to be the worst team in the league when we were 3-5? I think no. If you think you are in the running you don't trade your 2nd rounder.

Do you think Claypool allowed us to evaluate fields? I think no. We didn't take a franchise QB the following year, so we still clearly didn't know about Fields, nor did Claypool make that clear.

Does believing all of the above mean that Poles was a moron for wanting to evaluate Fields? No. I didn't know for sure about Fields either. Does it mean trying to trade for a young WR with the physical attributes you want who is struggling with a bad QB but previously had success was a terrible idea? I didn't like it at the time, but I totally got why he did it.

Does it mean Poles was just dumb all around? No of course not. I don't think Poles is a moron or awful at what he does and haven't said that.

Does it mean that the majority of our position was not by his design? Yes. It does mean that. He was not aiming to build the franchise in this way by being bad, getting the #1 pick and then trading it go get a better #1 pick. He got extraordinarily lucky that he got the 1st one, and he traded it because he still wasn't sure on Fields and still wanted to build with Fields.

[jnrjr79]

The flaw in your argument is that you’re extrapolating Poles’ entire view of the roster and its direction based on the Claypool trade. It’s entirely possible his calculation was that the move would help finalize his decision on Justin, possibly pay off with a young prospect at a premium position AND that the move would have a neglible chance of improving our record in a meaningful way no matter how Claypool performed. It was one move, not an overarching team building philosophy.

Do you think Poles wanted to tank? I think no. If you are tanking you don't trade your 2nd rounder.

Do you think Poles thought we were in the running to be the worst team in the league when we were 3-5? I think no. If you think you are in the running you don't trade your 2nd rounder.

Do you think Claypool allowed us to evaluate fields? I think no. We didn't take a franchise QB the following year, so we still clearly didn't know about Fields, nor did Claypool make that clear.

Does believing all of the above mean that Poles was a moron for wanting to evaluate Fields? No. I didn't know for sure about Fields either. Does it mean trying to trade for a young WR with the physical attributes you want who is struggling with a bad QB but previously had success was a terrible idea? I didn't like it at the time, but I totally got why he did it.

Does it mean Poles was just dumb all around? No of course not. I don't think Poles is a moron or awful at what he does and haven't said that.

Does it mean that the majority of our position was not by his design? Yes. It does mean that. He was not aiming to build the franchise in this way by being bad, getting the #1 pick and then trading it go get a better #1 pick. He got extraordinarily lucky that he got the 1st one, and he traded it because he still wasn't sure on Fields and still wanted to build with Fields.

I guess, re: the bolded, it depends on what your definition of "tank" is. Poles traded away basically all of the good and expensive veteran talent on the team. Maybe he wasn't "tanking," but he was certainly indifferent to the W-L record, at best.

I really do think the Claypool trade was just "the most important thing for the franchise's future is to know what we have in Justin Fields," and that's it. Did it work? Absolutely not. Should he have known it was a bad idea? Maybe so! But Poles obviously was not trying too hard to win football games.

[fleet]

Safe to assume the Panthers didn’t think they were giving up the number 1 pick, or they wouldn’t do the deal. Poles was probably a similar thinking on the range he thought he would get.

[biggestbullsfan]

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This hit job stuff is so low class. He got traded and is a backup working his way back up. Why try and tear him down now. Focus on our current core and the future. This is just gross

[nomorezorro]

considering all of fields's offensive coaches got fired, i don't think they have much interest in promoting the team's current core or future

[fleet]

Judging by that sleeve on his leg, the “old rubber band” hammy might be a thing to baby and fuss over by the Bears.

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[Chicago-Bull-E]

“There were several arguments amongst the QBs. Once, per one source, Foles was trying to teach something to Fields in the QB room and — upon turning toward the rookie — Foles realized Fields wasn’t even paying attention. His head was down. At that point, Foles was done trying to play mentor. The two could not stand each other.”

According to Dunne, Fields didn’t mesh well with the two veteran quarterbacks at all that year, and had particular friction with Foles. Per Dunne, the environment in the Bears’ QBs room amongst the trio was “f****** toxic as hell.”

[fleet]

“There were several arguments amongst the QBs. Once, per one source, Foles was trying to teach something to Fields in the QB room and — upon turning toward the rookie — Foles realized Fields wasn’t even paying attention. His head was down. At that point, Foles was done trying to play mentor. The two could not stand each other.”

According to Dunne, Fields didn’t mesh well with the two veteran quarterbacks at all that year, and had particular friction with Foles. Per Dunne, the environment in the Bears’ QBs room amongst the trio was “f****** toxic as hell.”

There was a lot of bad stuff about the Nagy years. I didn’t hear guys talk about what Dunne wrote about the Getsy years.

[Betta Bulleavit]

“There were several arguments amongst the QBs. Once, per one source, Foles was trying to teach something to Fields in the QB room and — upon turning toward the rookie — Foles realized Fields wasn’t even paying attention. His head was down. At that point, Foles was done trying to play mentor. The two could not stand each other.”

According to Dunne, Fields didn’t mesh well with the two veteran quarterbacks at all that year, and had particular friction with Foles. Per Dunne, the environment in the Bears’ QBs room amongst the trio was “f****** toxic as hell.”

There was a lot of bad stuff about the Nagy years. I didn’t hear guys talk about what Dunne wrote about the Getsy years.

I can definitely believe the stuff about the QB room being toxic. A former ranking member of the staff eluded to this several months ago. And the more you think about it, the more sense it makes.

The front office had completely screwed the pooch with Mitch. They were flailing at that time trying to fix that monumental mistake and brought in Foles because Nagy liked him. As a result, Foles likely thought that he was being brought in as the answer.

But then Pace turned around the next year and brought in Dalton who was here on a prove it deal and likely thought he’d have that opportunity. This was likely a blow to Foles’ ego. Then, in that same off season you trade up to draft Fields. So now, you’ve got 3 guys that think they’re all there for the same damn reason, which basically created a bigger cluster-you know what than the one that existed before. Man that was a bad situation and really about explains why Poles had to go full roto-rooter when he came in.

[Bulls69]

On Fields:

Following the departure of Justin Fields from the team, one of Fields’ coaches with the Chicago Bears had a pretty brutal assessment of Fields’ processing ability at the quarterback position, claiming that Fields’ “eyes are all over the place” and that it’s “just bad football.”

“Watch his eyes. He tries to see the whole thing and doesn’t see anything. His eyes are all over the place and it’s just really hard to watch. It’s just bad football,” the coach said anonymously, according to independent long-form journalist Tyler Dunne.

https://nextimpulsesports.com/nfl/chicago-bears-justin-fields-eyes-processing/




On Caleb:

Hall of Famer Warren Moon leaps right into this comparison.

“Very creative, very talented,” Moon says. “He’s tough and he can throw it with all the arm angles. He doesn’t have to be set. He’s a miniature Pat Mahomes. He’s probably better than Pat Mahomes coming out of college.”

One scout who’s tracked Williams closely describes the quarterback as a supercharged Donovan McNabb. He believes. He sees Williams as the face of the Bears for years.

He wore a red dress for a GQ photo shoot. One GM said he’s essentially Prince playing quarterback. One exec told Go Long he’s “spoiled and demanding,” while a scout added that Williams has enjoyed “red carpet treatment since the 9th grade,” reflective in his father reportedly asking NFL teams if it’d be possible for his son to receive a stake in ownership and, per one club official, claiming Chicago is too windy

Suffice to say, the curious case of Caleb Williams was a new one for NFL scouts these last three years. It’s their job to hyper-analyze all glam, all tears to decipher if this is a quarterback who’ll rise up in the face of NFL adversity or wilt. Or prove too fragile for such a violent game played by violent grown men. Honestly, that’s the sort of rhetoric I expected to hear from one trusted scout who’s been following Williams closely. Instead, this scout reveals the exact opposite. He effusively praises Williams’ iron will. Before even touching on the QB’s athletic gifts, he insists all pizzazz is an all-time head fake.

The idea that Williams is not a competitor, not tough is “a completely false narrative” to him.

“I just think it’s different than what most people are used to,” the scout says. “This guy is the ultimate team player, the ultimate competitor. This is the guy you really want leading your franchise.”

The Bears have to open their mind, he believes, to a quarterback who simply “looks” different and “sounds” different.

“He’s one of the true Generation Z quarterbacks that we’ve seen, and there’s something wrong with it only if you find something wrong with it.

“Ultimately though he loves his teammates and he just wants to win.”

“This dude is the ultimate competitor.”

https://substack.com/@golongtd

Why now and why anonymously? I just don’t get the need for the unnecessary smear campaign at this point. Most of the people that supported Fields have pretty much moved on. Most of the noise now seems to be coming from folks that seem to be attempting to satisfy some sort of insecurity about whether or not Caleb is really the guy. He looks the part. I think it’s just time to relax.

You’re right I was a Fields supporter and still is but my love is the Bears first and Caleb is my QB1 but folks needs to move on.


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[fleet]

On Fields:


https://nextimpulsesports.com/nfl/chicago-bears-justin-fields-eyes-processing/




On Caleb:







https://substack.com/@golongtd

Why now and why anonymously? I just don’t get the need for the unnecessary smear campaign at this point. Most of the people that supported Fields have pretty much moved on. Most of the noise now seems to be coming from folks that seem to be attempting to satisfy some sort of insecurity about whether or not Caleb is really the guy. He looks the part. I think it’s just time to relax.

You’re right I was a Fields supporter and still is but my love is the Bears first and Caleb is my QB1 but folks needs to move on.

Negative. This was spoken about on Chicago Sports radio for hours yesterday, and all over the net. But we’re too sensitive over here.

[CjayC]

“There were several arguments amongst the QBs. Once, per one source, Foles was trying to teach something to Fields in the QB room and — upon turning toward the rookie — Foles realized Fields wasn’t even paying attention. His head was down. At that point, Foles was done trying to play mentor. The two could not stand each other.”

According to Dunne, Fields didn’t mesh well with the two veteran quarterbacks at all that year, and had particular friction with Foles. Per Dunne, the environment in the Bears’ QBs room amongst the trio was “f****** toxic as hell.”

It's believable to me that Fields was overconfident, and ultimately in over his head (Especially with that lameduck staff scrambling to save their own tails). Maybe had a bit of a chip on his shoulder after being the 4th QB drafted. He stated the NFL was slower than he expected, and I thought college was faster after just one practice. It's not a good look for Justin, but I feel like it's more of an indictment on the coaches, and the culture of that locker room that they couldn't reel that situation in.

[panthermark]

Why now and why anonymously? I just don’t get the need for the unnecessary smear campaign at this point. Most of the people that supported Fields have pretty much moved on. Most of the noise now seems to be coming from folks that seem to be attempting to satisfy some sort of insecurity about whether or not Caleb is really the guy. He looks the part. I think it’s just time to relax.

You’re right I was a Fields supporter and still is but my love is the Bears first and Caleb is my QB1 but folks needs to move on.

Negative. This was spoken about on Chicago Sports radio for hours yesterday, and all over the net. But we’re too sensitive over here.

Meh, I don't really care about the skill assessment if his eyes were indeed all over the place, and I would love to hear to context of the conversation. But it is the anonymous part that bugs me. That is what makes it feel slimy.

Basically, if you are going take shots at the last guy, put your name to it.
If you don't want to put your name to it, STFU and move on. But that is why I'm curious about the context.

[fleet]

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[JockItch43]

considering all of fields's offensive coaches got fired, i don't think they have much interest in promoting the team's current core or future

Agreed. This probably stems from the frustrations they still have as to why they are no longer employed here to begin with more than anything. They probably feel like they were tied to and forced to work with a player that had certain deficiencies that they collectively had issues resolving that ultimately cost them their jobs.

[iqureshi]

The flaw in your argument is that you’re extrapolating Poles’ entire view of the roster and its direction based on the Claypool trade. It’s entirely possible his calculation was that the move would help finalize his decision on Justin, possibly pay off with a young prospect at a premium position AND that the move would have a neglible chance of improving our record in a meaningful way no matter how Claypool performed. It was one move, not an overarching team building philosophy.

Do you think Poles wanted to tank? I think no. If you are tanking you don't trade your 2nd rounder.

Do you think Poles thought we were in the running to be the worst team in the league when we were 3-5? I think no. If you think you are in the running you don't trade your 2nd rounder.

Do you think Claypool allowed us to evaluate fields? I think no. We didn't take a franchise QB the following year, so we still clearly didn't know about Fields, nor did Claypool make that clear.

Does believing all of the above mean that Poles was a moron for wanting to evaluate Fields? No. I didn't know for sure about Fields either. Does it mean trying to trade for a young WR with the physical attributes you want who is struggling with a bad QB but previously had success was a terrible idea? I didn't like it at the time, but I totally got why he did it.

Does it mean Poles was just dumb all around? No of course not. I don't think Poles is a moron or awful at what he does and haven't said that.

Does it mean that the majority of our position was not by his design? Yes. It does mean that. He was not aiming to build the franchise in this way by being bad, getting the #1 pick and then trading it go get a better #1 pick. He got extraordinarily lucky that he got the 1st one, and he traded it because he still wasn't sure on Fields and still wanted to build with Fields.

As a very very scant bulls fan at this point I will not stand by letting a competent GM's name being tarnished! Poles has had to replace about 48 players in a 3 year period. I'll grant he got lucky with the Panthers pick, but he still was confident he would get a top 5 pick in that trade. People's anti Poles argument hinges on the Claypool trade, and the Velus Jones Selection. Wr's have the highest bust rate, and finding competent ones is difficult (see bears history).

His success rate in drafting is phenomenal. Before Wright what was the last first round pick that hit (signed a second contract) in recent Bears history? Kyle Long?

Pole's only problem at this point is his team is so young, the players need experience. The last step which he appears to be starting is backup depth pieces to create a farm system of players so we dont need to give players big deals.

Coming from a Bulls forum where we have the most trash management team in bulls history, just from a relativity standpoint Poles is a star.

[NecessaryEvil]

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[Chicago-Bull-E]

PFF has the bears with the best receivers in the NFL, but also with the worst defensive line.

I always think back to not being able to get Danielle Hunter, but then trading for Allen a few days later. Is this team better with Hunter instead of Allen? I think so. IMO would have been a lock for a top 5 defense.

But that’s how it goes.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-strongest-weakest-position-groups-free-agency-2024-nfl-draft

[dougthonus]

As a very very scant bulls fan at this point I will not stand by letting a competent GM's name being tarnished! Poles has had to replace about 48 players in a 3 year period.

I didn't trash Poles. I just said the majority of what he has done that you are really excited about wasn't by his plan. It wasn't. He got insanely lucky with the the moves that really moved the needle. I'm not sure he's done a great job of replacing 48 players on the roster either.

If it proves out that everything other than Caleb is really good, and then Caleb becomes a stud, I will say that he got lucky with Caleb but was highly, highly skilled throughout everything else. I haven't seen that yet though.

Coming from a Bulls forum where we have the most trash management team in bulls history, just from a relativity standpoint Poles is a star.

AKME is one of the worst FOs in sports, so no argument there.

[fleet]

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