The Melo Thread Vol. V

[theanimal23]

For the 6th pick, I'm not so sure if I'd trade Rose, Melo or no Melo. I'd definitely think about it though. For a top 4 pick, then I think you do it for a chance at Parker, Wiggins, Embid, or Exum. But aside from the Bucks, I don't see any team that gets that pick considering to trade it for Rose.

[Harmoo]

Age isn't his problem.

I don't think his latest injury has any long term complications. I think he will make a full recovery. Why would you write him off? These are just freak injuries.

If someone keeps having freak injuries, then that in itself may say a lot about the athlete's durability. Both of these injuries and quite a few of his smaller ones his last "healthy" season were all unprovoked.

The other things is that losing two years for Derrick is not good. He's not like MJ where he can fall back on his skills. He doesn't have a go to shot and relies quite a bit on his speed and athleticism. A good jump shot lasts forever, speed depreciates when it's not used.

Yeah, I wish he were rehabbing his legs and conditioning them instead of watching daytime television all day.

Speed isn't some entity that ebbs and flows, it's predicated on muscle mass, weight, size and other physical factors. Factors that can be controlled through workouts.

Rose's speed isn't at risk and there's no reason that he can't return to his early 2012 form other than the threat of a new freak injury.

[BullsFTW]

Unfortunately, neither is Derrick Rose at this point in his career.

He's only 26 years old.

Age isn't his problem.

Good. Then he'll recover just like those players who had surgery on their meniscus.

[BullsFTW]

Common, he's not taking 18 mill and its not even fair to ask. You want him to give up 5/130 for 4/76? Thats crazy, he might take a few hundred k off but thats all. His first year will pay 22+.

I'd want Melo regardless, but it will be really nice if he did take $18M as his starting salary so we can keep Taj.

I think the 5th year is a little bit redundant since Melo can have a opt out in his third year, and sign a bigger extension with the Bulls. If he knows Thibs can take his game to another level and he becomes a winner, he will earn more by opting out in the 3rd year. So technically, he will only take a pay-cut the next two years. He will make it up if he wins a title, as he will receive better endorsement deals in my opinion. Also, the tax in Illinois is lower than the tax in New York, so that helps.

The 5th year isn't redundant. And our asking him to take a 5 mill a year discount on top of losing on the deal.

By signing here:
He loses the 5th and biggest year of the deal, about 30 mill. We aren't going to sign him to 30 mill after his 3rd year.
He will get smaller raises and lose money there.

There will be no Melo discount. He is getting the max. Maybe a few 100k less. Not less than 22 mill. If we picked up the phone and asked him to take less than 22 mill, his agent would hang up laughing at us.

The discount is him signing here for the max. Your just not being realistic asking for more.

How am I not being realistic? It's not that hard to imagine if he really wants to win.

It's well documented that if you play for a contender and your one of the best players, you'll make more outside the court.

If he opts out the third year, he can re-up for the max. I'm sure the Bulls will pay him.

[TheStig]

I'd want Melo regardless, but it will be really nice if he did take $18M as his starting salary so we can keep Taj.

I think the 5th year is a little bit redundant since Melo can have a opt out in his third year, and sign a bigger extension with the Bulls. If he knows Thibs can take his game to another level and he becomes a winner, he will earn more by opting out in the 3rd year. So technically, he will only take a pay-cut the next two years. He will make it up if he wins a title, as he will receive better endorsement deals in my opinion. Also, the tax in Illinois is lower than the tax in New York, so that helps.

The 5th year isn't redundant. And our asking him to take a 5 mill a year discount on top of losing on the deal.

By signing here:
He loses the 5th and biggest year of the deal, about 30 mill. We aren't going to sign him to 30 mill after his 3rd year.
He will get smaller raises and lose money there.

There will be no Melo discount. He is getting the max. Maybe a few 100k less. Not less than 22 mill. If we picked up the phone and asked him to take less than 22 mill, his agent would hang up laughing at us.

The discount is him signing here for the max. Your just not being realistic asking for more.

How am I not being realistic? It's not that hard to imagine if he really wants to win.

It's well documented that if you play for a contender and your one of the best players, you'll make more outside the court.

If he opts out the third year, he can re-up for the max. I'm sure the Bulls will pay him.

Common man. You don't want to pay him the max at 30 but somehow your going to be more willing to pay him the max at 33

The discount is in the raises and 5th year. Its 5/130 vs 4/96 here. Thats a huge discount. Don't be greedy. Every star makes endorsements. I'm not sure Melo will see a big difference coming here on a contender than NY.

[Rerisen]

Hope Melo is watching the playoffs stewing. Might miss them again next year if he stays in NY.

[TyrusRose2425]

Has this been posted yet? Sounds like we'll go after him heavy.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/KCJHoop/status/457335533912752128[/tweet]

[League Circles]

If I understand correctly, the maximum that we can pay Melo without a S&T while keeping Rose, Noah, Taj and Butler is 18.75 million, and it would require amnestying Boozer, and trading MDJ, Snell, Smith, and both draft picks for no returning salary, plus having Mirotic sign the document saying he won't come over. That is under the new report of a likely 63.2 million cap.

Is this correct?

It's nice in the sense that I think Melo may agree to it, and NY may very well take MDJ, Snell, Smith and both of our picks in a S&T.

We'd look like this:

5: Noah, vet min, vet min
4: Taj, vet min, vet min
3: Melo, vet min, vet min
2: Butler, vet min, vet min
1: Rose, room MLE, vet min

Problem is, that team just might not be that good. I'm not so sure I wouldn't prefer Snell over Butler with that unit, because the spacing wouldn't be very good. The defense and clutch shooting would be probably be really good, but I think people would be disappointed in the regular season offense.

[logical_art]

Unless I'm overlooking something, the most sensible move for all parties involved is:

Boozer, Mirotic, MDJ, pick/s for Melo

Bulls don't have to completely gut their team and keep the better win now PF (Taj). Melo doesn't have to take a pay cut. NY gets a young player to start rebuilding with.

Bring DJ back, pick up a swingman and another big in FA/the draft and the Bulls look very good.

[bledredwine]

Has this been posted yet? Sounds like we'll go after him heavy.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/KCJHoop/status/457335533912752128[/tweet]

Nice to see the FO is being smart.

They've loaded up on assets - I'm actually somewhat impressed after this horrible offseason. Augustin Greg etc and the picks, not bad for the long run.

[Chitownbulls]

If we land Melo...we will have unbelievable defensive players surrounding him in Butler, Taj an Noah. Melo wont have to waste his energy on that side of the ball.

[musiqsoulchild]

If I understand correctly, the maximum that we can pay Melo without a S&T while keeping Rose, Noah, Taj and Butler is 18.75 million, and it would require amnestying Boozer, and trading MDJ, Snell, Smith, and both draft picks for no returning salary, plus having Mirotic sign the document saying he won't come over. That is under the new report of a likely 63.2 million cap.

Is this correct?

It's nice in the sense that I think Melo may agree to it, and NY may very well take MDJ, Snell, Smith and both of our picks in a S&T.

We'd look like this:

5: Noah, vet min, vet min
4: Taj, vet min, vet min
3: Melo, vet min, vet min
2: Butler, vet min, vet min
1: Rose, room MLE, vet min

Problem is, that team just might not be that good. I'm not so sure I wouldn't prefer Snell over Butler with that unit, because the spacing wouldn't be very good. The defense and clutch shooting would be probably be really good, but I think people would be disappointed in the regular season offense.

Gar pax, can we sign and trade DJ and use him in the trade for Melo.

That helps everyone right? Us because we dont need to shed that many salary spos, DJ because he gets a nice contract of 3 million say and Knicks because they need a PG in the worst way.

[Chitownbulls]

^give them DJ an draft Napier

[Eduardo]

Bummer. So in any situation which we sign Melo in free agency, the bulls won't get the full MLE because they won't be over the cap? Is there a way to get around that while signing him via free agency?

[mostek]

The Bulls do not have any Bird rights on Augustin, so they can not S&T him for more than such a small raise over his last year's minimum salary, that he would just pick his team directly, most likely at a substantially higher salary.

You can not use the full MLE, or BAE, if you use cap space, unless you do not renounce those exceptions, which defeats the purpose of opening the max cap space posible.

[boozapalooza]

If I understand correctly, the maximum that we can pay Melo without a S&T while keeping Rose, Noah, Taj and Butler is 18.75 million, and it would require amnestying Boozer, and trading MDJ, Snell, Smith, and both draft picks for no returning salary, plus having Mirotic sign the document saying he won't come over. That is under the new report of a likely 63.2 million cap.

Is this correct?

It's nice in the sense that I think Melo may agree to it, and NY may very well take MDJ, Snell, Smith and both of our picks in a S&T.

We'd look like this:

5: Noah, vet min, vet min
4: Taj, vet min, vet min
3: Melo, vet min, vet min
2: Butler, vet min, vet min
1: Rose, room MLE, vet min

Problem is, that team just might not be that good. I'm not so sure I wouldn't prefer Snell over Butler with that unit, because the spacing wouldn't be very good. The defense and clutch shooting would be probably be really good, but I think people would be disappointed in the regular season offense.

I think it would be the perfect starting 5. We can fill the team out with ring chasers at the vet min. We'd remain the league's best defensive team, and be incredibly good offensively. There's no way a team 2 offensive superstars like Rose and Melo and 3 very capable offensive guys like Jimmy, Taj, and Noah wouldnt be a great offensive team.
The way I would clear the cap room would not be in an S&T. We could trade Dunleavy and Snell in separate deals for future 2nd round picks. Both have reasonable salaries, MDJ is a guy any team would like to have and any team would take a chance on Snell right now for a future 2nd. As for our draft picks, this is a loaded draft, we could trade both of our 1sts in separate deals for future 1st round picks. I think Melo takes anywhere over 17 mil to come here. When Lebron, Bosh, and Wade signed in Miami, they all made 14 mil in year one.

[[e]]

^give them DJ an draft Napier

We likely have to give up both draft picks in order to get Melo (in addition to Boozer, MDJ, Snell, and Smith)

I'm all for getting Melo if it means we keep Rose, Butler, Taj and Noah. I could see that being a great starting 5, and having Melo would take so much pressure off Rose. Kirk would definitely return on the vet min as well - which gives us our backup 1/2 guard. Finding another big could be an issue, but I could see a bunch of vets wanting to play with those guys.

[Future Coach]

Unless I'm overlooking something, the most sensible move for all parties involved is:

Boozer, Mirotic, MDJ, pick/s for Melo

Bulls don't have to completely gut their team and keep the better win now PF (Taj). Melo doesn't have to take a pay cut. NY gets a young player to start rebuilding with.

Bring DJ back, pick up a swingman and another big in FA/the draft and the Bulls look very good.

Are you including the Knicks as one of those "all parties involved?" Because I don't know how it's a "sensible move" for them to acquire Boozer when they have Amar'e and Barges on the roster as it gives them 3 not so great PF's who struggle on defense. Unless of course you are suggesting they want to tank in an expensive fashion.


In reality, Boozer should be moved for multiple bench quality players on not terrible contracts, of which a team like the Knicks (or T'wolves) wouldn't be too opposed to trading for (while the remaining are used to fill the bench). I think that would be the most sensible move for all parties involved, assuming Melo (or Love) says he wants out and picks the Bulls as the landing spot.

[League Circles]

I think it would be the perfect starting 5. We can fill the team out with ring chasers at the vet min. We'd remain the league's best defensive team, and be incredibly good offensively. There's no way a team 2 offensive superstars like Rose and Melo and 3 very capable offensive guys like Jimmy, Taj, and Noah wouldnt be a great offensive team.

A team could have 5 hall of famers and not be great offensively:

Shaq
DRob
Ewing
Zo
Dwight

... would suck offensively. I'm not saying the starting 5 I mention would be a bad offense, I just don't think they'd be an elite one. Not enough spacing to be elite IMO. I'm not saying I don't want that lineup, just saying that it might not be automatically great.

The way I would clear the cap room would not be in an S&T. We could trade Dunleavy and Snell in separate deals for future 2nd round picks. Both have reasonable salaries, MDJ is a guy any team would like to have and any team would take a chance on Snell right now for a future 2nd.

I think there is an excellent chance that NO team would decide, in the opening couple of days of free agency, to use over 3 mil of their cap space on one year of a 34 year old Mike Dunleavy, especially in the process of making a possible dynasty in Chicago.

As for our draft picks, this is a loaded draft, we could trade both of our 1sts in separate deals for future 1st round picks.

Probably for heavily protected picks, yes I'd agree.

When Lebron, Bosh, and Wade signed in Miami, they all made 14 mil in year one.

That's irrelevant because they were only allowed to sign for a few hundred grand more IIRC. It's not like they were eligible for 22-23 mil and took 14. They were eligible for 15-16 I believe and signed for 14.5 in a no state income tax state. Oh yeah and one of two semi-tropical NBA cities, which Chicago is not. I wouldn't be shocked if Melo took 17-19, but I kinda doubt it. I'm guessing more like 19-22 is what he'd agree to, but perhaps only if it includes Taj, because otherwise we're really not that strong of a team in Melo's eyes I don't think. It's hard to say whether we'd be better off with Mirotic and another 3 mil or so player, or with Taj and no Mirotic for a year. Of course, if we trade Taj and bring Melo now, we can then add a player next year with the MLE that we'd otherwise have to give to Mirotic.

[mostek]

If I understand correctly, the maximum that we can pay Melo without a S&T while keeping Rose, Noah, Taj and Butler is 18.75 million, and it would require amnestying Boozer, and trading MDJ, Snell, Smith, and both draft picks for no returning salary, plus having Mirotic sign the document saying he won't come over. That is under the new report of a likely 63.2 million cap.

Is this correct?

It's nice in the sense that I think Melo may agree to it, and NY may very well take MDJ, Snell, Smith and both of our picks in a S&T.

We'd look like this:

5: Noah, vet min, vet min
4: Taj, vet min, vet min
3: Melo, vet min, vet min
2: Butler, vet min, vet min
1: Rose, room MLE, vet min

Problem is, that team just might not be that good. I'm not so sure I wouldn't prefer Snell over Butler with that unit, because the spacing wouldn't be very good. The defense and clutch shooting would be probably be really good, but I think people would be disappointed in the regular season offense.

I think it would be the perfect starting 5. We can fill the team out with ring chasers at the vet min. We'd remain the league's best defensive team, and be incredibly good offensively. There's no way a team 2 offensive superstars like Rose and Melo and 3 very capable offensive guys like Jimmy, Taj, and Noah wouldnt be a great offensive team.
The way I would clear the cap room would not be in an S&T. We could trade Dunleavy and Snell in separate deals for future 2nd round picks. Both have reasonable salaries, MDJ is a guy any team would like to have and any team would take a chance on Snell right now for a future 2nd. As for our draft picks, this is a loaded draft, we could trade both of our 1sts in separate deals for future 1st round picks. I think Melo takes anywhere over 17 mil to come here. When Lebron, Bosh, and Wade signed in Miami, they all made 14 mil in year one.

LeBron 2010
Max 4-year FA contract (starting $17.4M) - $77.6M
Max 4-year S&T contract (starting $17.4M) - $80.0M
Max 4-year S&T contract (starting $14.5M) - $68.4M

LeBron only made $9.2M less over 4 years than signing a max 4-year outright deal. That with the security of 6 years, with flexibly of opt out after year 4, and 5.

That pails in comparison to what Melo would be giving up, just accepting a contract 4-year deal starting at $18M ($19.1M), much less comparing to what the Knicks could offer for 5 ($50M+).

The difference in the $15M in the article assume the S&T raises, 10.5%, versus 8%, and all 6 years.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... the-table/

Max 5-year S&T contract (starting $14.5M) - $89.8M
Max 6-year S&T contract (starting $14.5M) - $110.1M

Max 5-year FA contract (starting $17.4M) - $100.2M
Max 6-year FA contract (starting $17.4M) - $124.7M ** 6 not legal, but how they did the calculation of $15M