Is DJ Augustin the best in season waiver pickup ever?

[League Circles]

If a team has $7M to spend on a point guard, I can't imagine a single one pursuing Augustin over Lowry.

You're forgetting other key free-agents. Shaun Livingston is going to be really sought after, and I think he's gotten more credit from the media than DJ has (which isn't fair). There's also Sessions who has been having a great year statistically. Collison and Blake may offer some competition, though I think DJ has had the better season.

Only one team can sign Lowry. Even if you are correct that not one team would prefer the younger, more efficient, non known-trouble maker DJ over Lowry, once Lowry is signed, he's gone. Livingston is unable to shoot, scores and assists at a much lower rate than DJ, and is older and historically very injury prone.

But I generally agree - these guys will offer SOME competition for DJ. That's why he won't get the max. However, an argument can certainly be made that some teams would consider him the best available UFA PG for their system, and that they'd thus pay him the full MLE or slightly over it for that reason.

I just don't see how Jeremy Lin can get over 8 million, Tyreke Evans 12, OJ Mayo like 8 or whatever he got, and conclude that DJ can't get 5-7 in an increased cap environment. Again, I'm not claiming he will, I'm saying it's a realistic possibility and one that wouldn't make me rule out matching him on some vague principle for the purpose of overpaying somebody else by definition on principle.

[League Circles]

Jesus, you need to calm down. All of those players are much better than DJ.

Umm, not sure what makes you think I'm not calm.

Three of those players are restricted free agents and thus somewhat irrelevant. The other two include a player who is the 4th best player on the 2 time defending champs - a player I think will be re-signed by Miami, and a player that is a known locker room and coaching problem, who is older and less efficient that DJ, and who can only sign with one team.

[AirP.]

I mean, you say Aaron Brooks can do nearly what DJ does. OK, let's pretend that's true. Can MDJ and Richard Jefferson not do nearly what Jodie Meeks, Vince Carter, etc can do? What if they are our best alternatives?

Are people seriously advocating that we deliberately not spend up to the salary cap just out of principle to not pay the best available players what it takes to get them? Because that's the logical result of some of these arguments as far as I'm concerned.

I mean, are we to make an arbitrary list of what every FA is "truly worth" and then if none of them are available for those amounts, just spend $50 million on a worse team out of principle? Makes no sense to me.

I'm talking about getting the best value for your money since there is a salary cap.

Look at Nate vs DJ with both of them on the Bulls Roster and their production on that roster.
PER36...
DJ / Nate
Scoring 17.6 / 18.5
Assists 6 / 6.2
FG% 42% / 43%
3pt% 41% / 41% (Dj a little over 41, Nate a little below 41)

Now...
PER 16.7 /17.3
Giving up PER at PG 16.7 / 14.3
NET PER at PG 0 / 3

All in all, NATE had a better season for the Bulls and he had HUGE games in the playoffs yet he left for 2 year 4 million dollar contract and now people are talking a big contract for DJ, it's absolutely ridiculous to even think about giving a backup more then 3 million when there are plenty of other players that can provide what DJ and Nate has, especially when you factor in them coming off the bench behind Rose.

[AirP.]

Jesus, you need to calm down. All of those players are much better than DJ.

Umm, not sure what makes you think I'm not calm.

Three of those players are restricted free agents and thus somewhat irrelevant. The other two include a player who is the 4th best player on the 2 time defending champs - a player I think will be re-signed by Miami, and a player that is a known locker room and coaching problem, who is older and less efficient that DJ, and who can only sign with one team.

What were your thoughts about Chicago picking up DJ this season after having bad stints in Indiana and Toronto? It's not what they've done, it's what they can do for the Bulls, a SHORT scoring PG isn't that difficult to find so paying decent bucks for a commodity that's easy isn't really smart.

Good lord, JL3 had PER36s for Chicago of 18.3 pts, 4.6 assists on 40% from the field and 39% from 3pt range... not much lower of a rate of stats then what DJ's done for the Bulls.

[League Circles]

I'm talking about getting the best value for your money since there is a salary cap.

The thing is, there really isn't a salary cap in the NBA in the way people pretend there is. This isn't football. There are very finite opportunities to spend, and a very finite availability of players to spend it on.

Look at Nate vs DJ with both of them on the Bulls Roster and their production on that roster.
PER36...
DJ / Nate
Scoring 17.6 / 18.5
Assists 6 / 6.2
FG% 42% / 43%
3pt% 41% / 41% (Dj a little over 41, Nate a little below 41)

Now...
PER 16.7 /17.3
Giving up PER at PG 16.7 / 14.3
NET PER at PG 0 / 3

All in all, NATE had a better season for the Bulls and he had HUGE games in the playoffs yet he left for 2 year 4 million dollar contract and now people are talking a big contract for DJ, it's absolutely ridiculous to even think about giving a backup more then 3 million when there are plenty of other players that can provide what DJ and Nate has, especially when you factor in them coming off the bench behind Rose.

I don't particularly disagree that Nate was as good as DJ. Nate was a better scorer, though DJ is a better defender and creator for others. But what Nate makes now or what someone else could maybe do for us is irrelevant to me. The meaningful comparison is, looking at a partial roster of:

5: Noah, Smith, draft pick
4: Taj, Mirotic
3: MDJ, draft pick
2: Butler, Snell
1: Rose

... plus the room MLE, how can you best help the team by spending 7 million? It's easy to say something unrealistic like sign Pau Gasol or Lance Stephenson for 7 million. Hell, signing Paul Pierce or Trevor Ariza, trading for Aaron Afflalo, etc may all be options that we simply don't have.

If the available choice is giving Michael Beasley 3 million and Chris Kaman 4 million vs giving DJ 7 million, I know which option I'm taking.

[League Circles]

What were your thoughts about Chicago picking up DJ this season after having bad stints in Indiana and Toronto? It's not what they've done, it's what they can do for the Bulls, a SHORT scoring PG isn't that difficult to find so paying decent bucks for a commodity that's easy isn't really smart.

A mediocre aging wing player also isn't difficult to find (Dunleavy, Marco, Ray Allen, RJeff, Battier, etc). We already have the room MLE of 2.7 million dedicated to a perimeter depth player. Why we need so many redundant wings is unclear to me.

Good lord, JL3 had PER36s for Chicago of 18.3 pts, 4.6 assists on 40% from the field and 39% from 3pt range... not much lower of a rate of stats then what DJ's done for the Bulls.

JL3 had very dramatically lower efficiency in very dramatically less minutes than DJ has had. Also, JL3 has never been good at basketball. DJ has better pedigree because he's a more talented, physically capable basketball player.

I was very glad when we signed DJ because I liked his talent back from his Charlotte days.

[Axl Rose]

just draft Napier....problem solved

[Proven_Winner]

just draft Napier....problem solved

If it means not paying DJ 7mil then yes.

[mj234eva]

And/or that they want a really good PG for 15 mpg. etc, etc...

I'm sure they do. But I doubt they'd be dumb enough to pay him 7 million per year.

[Axl Rose]

just draft Napier....problem solved

If it means not paying DJ 7mil then yes.

no team is paying 7 mill for DJ Augustin

ppl thought nate was gonna get MLE money and he barely got more than the minimum

DJ will get 3 mill max....hes a undersized point guard that was almost out of the league

hes had a great season but im sure teams are still iffy about him

[AirP.]

I was very glad when we signed DJ because I liked his talent back from his Charlotte days.

Sure but I'm guessing Indiana and Toronto also thought they could get that from him too.

The fact is that DJ probably won't be very productive in many different systems, he needs to be a playmaker(scoring or passing) to be effective and not many teams will take away from their other players on the court to allow him to do that. Chicago doesn't have much playmaking ability so he gets way more use because of it. I doubt many teams will be willing to sign DJ let alone for more than 3 million dollars.

There will be very few teams that will bid on DJ, look at how well Nate did last year, the dramatic shots he made in the playoffs yet he only got 2 million a year. Chicago won't have to offer much to retain DJ, but for DJ to stay with Chicago(even if they don't offer the most) they might have to offer a 3-4 year contract.

I'd be interested to know if Jimmer might be in the same position as DJ right now if he had been released before DJ.

I like DJ, but I like the Bulls more and that backup PG position isn't something we should spend a bunch of money on, we've shown 3 years in a row we can sign a low priced small scoring guard and get good production from them.

[Proven_Winner]

I was very glad when we signed DJ because I liked his talent back from his Charlotte days.

Sure but I'm guessing Indiana and Toronto also thought they could get that from him too.

The fact is that DJ probably won't be very productive in many different systems, he needs to be a playmaker(scoring or passing) to be effective and not many teams will take away from their other players on the court to allow him to do that. Chicago doesn't have much playmaking ability so he gets way more use because of it. I doubt many teams will be willing to sign DJ let alone for more than 3 million dollars.

There will be very few teams that will bid on DJ, look at how well Nate did last year, the dramatic shots he made in the playoffs yet he only got 2 million a year. Chicago won't have to offer much to retain DJ, but for DJ to stay with Chicago(even if they don't offer the most) they might have to offer a 3-4 year contract.

I'd be interested to know if Jimmer might be in the same position as DJ right now if he had been released before DJ.

I like DJ, but I like the Bulls more and that backup PG position isn't something we should spend a bunch of money on, we've shown 3 years in a row we can sign a low priced small scoring guard and get good production from them.

Its as if your reading my brain. What you just said is what I've been saying.DJ is a system guy. When you take him out a system that uses his skills then he's not all that useful. The freaking Toronto fan said himself said DJ was not good there and that's because Toronto does not really need his skill of playmaking or scoring because they have multiple guys who can do it without dj's help.

[League Circles]

I was very glad when we signed DJ because I liked his talent back from his Charlotte days.

Sure but I'm guessing Indiana and Toronto also thought they could get that from him too.

The fact is that DJ probably won't be very productive in many different systems, he needs to be a playmaker(scoring or passing) to be effective and not many teams will take away from their other players on the court to allow him to do that. Chicago doesn't have much playmaking ability so he gets way more use because of it. I doubt many teams will be willing to sign DJ let alone for more than 3 million dollars.

There will be very few teams that will bid on DJ, look at how well Nate did last year, the dramatic shots he made in the playoffs yet he only got 2 million a year. Chicago won't have to offer much to retain DJ, but for DJ to stay with Chicago(even if they don't offer the most) they might have to offer a 3-4 year contract.

I'd be interested to know if Jimmer might be in the same position as DJ right now if he had been released before DJ.

I like DJ, but I like the Bulls more and that backup PG position isn't something we should spend a bunch of money on, we've shown 3 years in a row we can sign a low priced small scoring guard and get good production from them.

This mostly all sounds fine but the implication is what I have a problem with. Everything is relative in roster building to me. You're basically saying that we should just spend 7 mil on the best wing available, whether it be Carmelo Anthony or Mike Miller. If you're not saying that, you're saying we should consider not using some of our cap space, which would not only cost us the ability to use the room MLE this year, but would mostly waste the cap space anyway because Rose, Noah, Taj, etc will all get raises next year plus likely Mirotic will be on a sizable deal, a Butler extension with a big raise, and multiple incoming draft picks.

I'm basically saying spend all we're allowed to so it doesn't evaporate, and do it on the best player available most likely because splitting it among two guys is likely very redundant with the room MLE available either way plus multiple picks coming in, etc.

You're basically saying that even if DJ is the best player available and is about to sign elsewhere for 6 mil, we should still spend the money on the wing position out of principle, even if that means getting two guys that aren't any better than MDJ or the room MLE would be.

I'm saying it's all dependent on what's actually available. You're saying it's not.

[khufure]

You guys are crazy. If DJ doesn't sign for Dunleavy type contract (2y 3M per) then he's gone. We've got too much $ at the PG spot already.

[League Circles]

Its as if your reading my brain. What you just said is what I've been saying.DJ is a system guy. When you take him out a system that uses his skills then he's not all that useful. The freaking Toronto fan said himself said DJ was not good there and that's because Toronto does not really need his skill of playmaking or scoring because they have multiple guys who can do it without dj's help.

DJ Augustin effectively never played for the Raptors. 10 games, including only 5 with more than one FGA and only three with more than 2. Played over 6:39 in only 4 games, two of which were wins over non playoff teams, and two of which were losses to playoff teams.

If Rose didn't play this year, as I've seen written a thousand times on here, DJ certainly didn't play for Toronto.

[Proven_Winner]

Its as if your reading my brain. What you just said is what I've been saying.DJ is a system guy. When you take him out a system that uses his skills then he's not all that useful. The freaking Toronto fan said himself said DJ was not good there and that's because Toronto does not really need his skill of playmaking or scoring because they have multiple guys who can do it without dj's help.

DJ Augustin effectively never played for the Raptors. 10 games, including only 5 with more than one FGA and only three with more than 2. Played over 6:39 in only 4 games, two of which were wins over non playoff teams, and two of which were losses to playoff teams.

If Rose didn't play this year, as I've seen written a thousand times on here, DJ certainly didn't play for Toronto.

Which is why I also said he wasn't used correctly. DJ is not a guy you can just put in a system and he can go to work. He has to be in the right system that utilizes his strengths which is why he is so good here.

[Bully6789]

I was driving home last night listening to the game on the radio when Swirsky mentioned that he believes DJ Augistin may be the best waiver pickup in the history of the NBA. Wennington and Swirsky then went on to talk about how many W's DJ has led the Bulls to this season and where they'd be without him. Essentially, they sung his praises for a few minutes as he began impacting the game and leading us to another victory (along with Taj).

In any case, the question is a valid one. Is DJ Augistin the best ever NBA waiver pickup? He's averaging nearly 15 ppg, 5 assists, 2 rebs and 1 steal in 30 mpg with the Bulls. Those numbers are almost identical to Tony Parker. His PER is 17.9 and a 52% eFG.

What do you think?

I don't know about him being the best mid season pick up ever maybe for the Bulls but the entire NBA? That is a stretch to say that he is the best in the history of the NBA.

[League Circles]

I can see these teams with cap space interested in DJ:

Philly
Lakers
Charlotte
Orlando
Bucks
Bulls
Celtics

And these teams without cap space all interested for as much as the $5.3 million MLE (or 3.3 million MMLE for spenders like the Nets or Knicks):

Rockets
Pacers
Kings
OKC
Memphis
Nets
Knicks

[Bully6789]

Its as if your reading my brain. What you just said is what I've been saying.DJ is a system guy. When you take him out a system that uses his skills then he's not all that useful. The freaking Toronto fan said himself said DJ was not good there and that's because Toronto does not really need his skill of playmaking or scoring because they have multiple guys who can do it without dj's help.

DJ Augustin effectively never played for the Raptors. 10 games, including only 5 with more than one FGA and only three with more than 2. Played over 6:39 in only 4 games, two of which were wins over non playoff teams, and two of which were losses to playoff teams.

If Rose didn't play this year, as I've seen written a thousand times on here, DJ certainly didn't play for Toronto.

Which is why I also said he wasn't used correctly. DJ is not a guy you can just put in a system and he can go to work. He has to be in the right system that utilizes his strengths which is why he is so good here.

So knowing that this system brings out the best in his talents will he stay in Chicago or take the offer which gives him the most money? We all know the NBA is all about money and business, it is not about staying with the team that could make you a star by having a system that's brings out your best talent or will the money be the major factor as it is with 95% of the players.

[Proven_Winner]

DJ Augustin effectively never played for the Raptors. 10 games, including only 5 with more than one FGA and only three with more than 2. Played over 6:39 in only 4 games, two of which were wins over non playoff teams, and two of which were losses to playoff teams.

If Rose didn't play this year, as I've seen written a thousand times on here, DJ certainly didn't play for Toronto.

Which is why I also said he wasn't used correctly. DJ is not a guy you can just put in a system and he can go to work. He has to be in the right system that utilizes his strengths which is why he is so good here.

So knowing that this system brings out the best in his talents will he stay in Chicago or take the offer which gives him the most money? We all know the NBA is all about money and business, it is not about staying with the team that could make you a star by having a system that's brings out your best talent or will the money be the major factor as it is with 95% of the players.

well that's his decision. He could get more money but also risk going to a team that won't use him right and end up back in a situation of almost being out of this league. His second option could be staying with us being in a system that uses him right and a roster he has gotten used to. Another plus is that if he can keep up his production to his next contract he could get another reasonable deal from us. But that's just my opinion and how I would approach it if I was DJ.