At least there's a plan now.

Action Paxson · Post #41 » by **Action Paxson** » Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:23 pm

I wouldn't call it "a plan". The Bulls are cycling through a variety of different outcome this off-season. Some involve adding 3 rookies to the rotation. Some have no rookies and adding a superstar.

The Smith signing is insurance if the Bulls have to trade Taj or have to trade their picks. A solid 4th big on a minimum deal is a good idea. He has value to virtually any team. The team option guys are valuable salary filler. Between those guys and Dunleavy (who is a fairly liquid asset) they have over $5M to send out. The Bulls are simply making as many options as possible. There is a lot of criticism about the Bulls not having a creative front-office, but I would say the team option signings indicate that is not true.

mostek · Post #42 » by **mostek** » Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:27 pm

if Melo decides to leave NY, and he has a team that is that can give him a maximum contract, then all the deal NY has to get is better than letting him walk. There will be a least one team, with max cap space, the LAL, that is plausible enough that Melo could use them as leverage. NY lost their leverage when they did not trade him before the deadline. I personally would not pay Melo $96M over the next 4 years, even without giving up assets, for the privilege, but I doubt NY is able to get near the return suggested here to facilitate the deal.

aramada · Post #43 » by **aramada** » Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:31 pm

CousinOfDeath wrote:
Space Indaver wrote:We're not trading Jimmy. He's too good defensively. I can see Taj going if we get Melo, simply because of his contract and how many minutes he'd lose to Melo. I'd love to have him on the bench backing up both big positions if we could manage it, though. Rotations of Melo/Mirotic(?)/Taj and Jo/Taj/Smith(?)

Personally I'd prefer to trade Boozer/MDJ/picks for Melo, and still have room for Mirotic. But I'm probably living in a fantasy land where the Bulls would be willing to go hell for leather into the luxury tax for Melo on a sign-and-trade, saving the actual cap room for Mirotic and draftees.

Rose/Kirk/Jimmer
Butler/Kirk/Snell
Mirotic in Dunleavy's "tall but incredibly scrawny shooty man" role/Butler/Snell
MELO - IS IT THREE YOU'RE LOOKING FOR/Mirotic/Taj
Jo/Taj/Smith (I have a suspicion they might actually have signed him to play basketball)

That team would do whatever the **** it wanted to the NBA.

The fantasy is that the Knicks would accept that deal, not that the Bulls would be willing to pay for it.

I don't believe this is that far fetched if Melo makes it clear he wants to go to the Bulls (which, I acknowledge, is already a bold assumption, but we know he is interested). It would take more trade sweeteners than this, though.

Maybe something like Boozer, MDJ, Snell, Greg Smith, Fillers, both 2014 picks, SAC pick for Melo and JR Smith.

If Melo leaves, New York will want to either tank next year and start clean in 2015 with an empty book and a pipeline of young players OR get young trade asset to rebuild a talented team next year. In this trade scenario, JR Smith comes off the books for 15-16. Boozer, MDJ, Chandler, Bargnani, and Amare are expiring. Then they have a pipeline of young players with Iman, Hardaway, Snell, #16, #19, Greg Smith. And with Melo and JR out, they start the work of changing the mentality of that team, which should be Phil's number 1 priority while rebuilding.

Action Paxson · Post #44 » by **Action Paxson** » Tue Apr 15, 2014 5:17 pm

aramada wrote:
CousinOfDeath wrote:
Space Indaver wrote:We're not trading Jimmy. He's too good defensively. I can see Taj going if we get Melo, simply because of his contract and how many minutes he'd lose to Melo. I'd love to have him on the bench backing up both big positions if we could manage it, though. Rotations of Melo/Mirotic(?)/Taj and Jo/Taj/Smith(?)

Personally I'd prefer to trade Boozer/MDJ/picks for Melo, and still have room for Mirotic. But I'm probably living in a fantasy land where the Bulls would be willing to go hell for leather into the luxury tax for Melo on a sign-and-trade, saving the actual cap room for Mirotic and draftees.

Rose/Kirk/Jimmer
Butler/Kirk/Snell
Mirotic in Dunleavy's "tall but incredibly scrawny shooty man" role/Butler/Snell
MELO - IS IT THREE YOU'RE LOOKING FOR/Mirotic/Taj
Jo/Taj/Smith (I have a suspicion they might actually have signed him to play basketball)

That team would do whatever the **** it wanted to the NBA.

The fantasy is that the Knicks would accept that deal, not that the Bulls would be willing to pay for it.

I don't believe this is that far fetched if Melo makes it clear he wants to go to the Bulls (which, I acknowledge, is already a bold assumption, but we know he is interested). It would take more trade sweeteners than this, though.

Maybe something like Boozer, MDJ, Snell, Greg Smith, Fillers, both 2014 picks, SAC pick for Melo and JR Smith.

If Melo leaves, New York will want to either tank next year and start clean in 2015 with an empty book and a pipeline of young players OR get young trade asset to rebuild a talented team next year. In this trade scenario, JR Smith comes off the books for 15-16. Boozer, MDJ, Chandler, Bargnani, and Amare are expiring. Then they have a pipeline of young players with Iman, Hardaway, Snell, #16, #19, Greg Smith. And with Melo and JR out, they start the work of changing the mentality of that team, which should be Phil's number 1 priority while rebuilding.

I think that is the one possibility where the Bulls keep Taj and Mirotic while acquiring Melo. Probably 4 1st rounders + Snell, and take JR.

The Knicks bottom out, but the only guy not on a rookie deal on their books in summer of 2015 is Felton. Go into 2015 with a top 5 pick, cap space for two max free-agents and five decent rotation players under 25 is not a bad rebuild.

Best case:
C - Jahlil Okafor (2015 1st)/Montrezl Harrel (SAC pick 2015)
PF- Kevin Love (2015 FA)/Kyle Anderson (CHA pick 2014)
SF- Jerami Grant (CHI pick 2014)/Tony Snell
SG- Iman Shumpert/Tim Hardaway Jr
PG- Rajon Rondo/Raymond Felton

That's a pipe dream obviously for the Knicks. My point is, if the Knicks re-sign Melo they don't bottom out and have no influx of talent. A mid-first rounder and one free-agent isn't going to make the Knicks contenders.

aramada · Post #45 » by **aramada** » Tue Apr 15, 2014 5:27 pm

That line up would make Knicks fans salivate!

BullsInBuffalo · Post #46 » by **BullsInBuffalo** » Tue Apr 15, 2014 5:53 pm

IMO, yes we love Jimmy. Yes we love Taj. But if you have to get rid of one of them to get Melo, you don't even think twice.

dice · Post #47 » by **dice** » Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:08 pm

BullsInBuffalo wrote:IMO, yes we love Jimmy. Yes we love Taj. But if you have to get rid of one of them to get Melo, you don't even think twice.

you think twice about what else is involved in the deal and what you have to pay melo

Mr Funk · Post #48 » by **Mr Funk** » Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:17 pm

Why is everyone obsessed with the notion that we will trade Buckets or Taj? It's been reported now that we're seeking a S&T with New York, which would likely see us shipping out Boozer and three picks for Melo, and would only keep him for about three years on a pay cut deal, so we don't blow up our core and end up with a crap bench.

ptpablo · Post #49 » by **ptpablo** » Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:14 pm

To me Melo is the finishing piece and I only do it if I keep Taj and Butler. Other than that I see what else is available.

kuly1990 · Post #50 » by **kuly1990** » Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:25 pm

BullsInBuffalo wrote:IMO, yes we love Jimmy. Yes we love Taj. But if you have to get rid of one of them to get Melo, you don't even think twice.

yeah i think once, and i say no...

ChiCitySPORTS#1 · Post #51 » by **ChiCitySPORTS#1** » Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:41 pm

Just watched 15 minutes of Rose highlights. Now I want to cry. Hold me.

PrimzyBulls81 · Post #52 » by **PrimzyBulls81** » Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:04 pm

I have a feeling that Anthony is considering only Bulls,out of Knicks.. But I dont want Melo if we lose both Taj and Jimmy!?

BigLos2010 · Post #53 » by **BigLos2010** » Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:30 pm

dougthonus wrote:I don't know why anyone would think we wouldn't trade Jimmy Butler.

Not that I think the Bulls are looking to get rid of him, but he's far from some untouchable guy in a deal.

Thank you! Jimmy is a great person and he's fun to watch play as hard as he does on the nightly, but to think that you wouldn't trade him for someone like Carmelo is crazy.

I think Ronnie Brewer is there just in case the Bulls end up pulling off a deal for a superstar (Melo), which would almost certainly cost them Jimmy. I think Greg Smith is here for the same reason.

Post #54 » by **kingkirk** » Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:40 pm

I am happy we brought in Brewer and Smith, but if they're the tipping point for people to realise a 'plan', then i have no clue what to say.

If you believe there was no plan before, but now there is by signing 2 vet minimum players, then i am confused and can not offer anything else to suggest that the a 'plan' was already in play, visible or not.

D_GoLow · Post #55 » by **D_GoLow** » Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:50 pm

I'd rather keep Jimmy & Taj than trade them for the ball stopper, Carmelo.

D_GoLow · Post #56 » by **D_GoLow** » Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:56 pm

Until Derrick Rose can play a full season healthy, I have a hard time taking him seriously as far as future franchise player...Jo is THE face & THE franchise player.

If Melo were to end up in Chicago, I'm not sure if (a healthy) Rose & Anthony would even be a good fit? One player loves the iso while the other enjoys torpedoing himself against 3 opposing players...

League Circles · Post #57 » by **League Circles** » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:04 pm

Do I understand correctly that as far as matching rules, the Bulls could trade MDJ, Snell, Brewer, Amundsen, and James (if all those last three are indeed signed next year) and a couple picks for Melo in a S&T where he starts at like 18 mil or so, and then we could still sign Mirotic with the full MLE? Is that allowed? Making a trade where you absorb a lot of salary with cap space and then still have the full MLE?

WinCity · Post #58 » by **WinCity** » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:10 pm

dougthonus wrote:I don't know why anyone would think we wouldn't trade Jimmy Butler.

Not that I think the Bulls are looking to get rid of him, but he's far from some untouchable guy in a deal.

Because he is cuddly and cute and we dont want to lose our precious baby boy for anyone in the whole wide world!

:nod:

SteelerSpartan · Post #59 » by **SteelerSpartan** » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:23 pm

wtf trade both Jimmy and Taj???.....might as well ship thibs there too as you are essentially shoving him out the door with trade ideas like this

I was ok with the release of deng only because I thought that it would ensure Jimmy is a Bull throughout his prime

Ditching Deng,Jimmy, Taj all in one offseason is a whole sale philosophy and culture change......Thibs isnt just going to be able to cover that up. Which is what I suspect some Bulls fans secretly want

Sorry guys we're not the miami heat or San Antonio spurs.......As long as Thibs is our coach we're not going to beat teams and win championships with amazing system offense.......Its going to be because we dominated with D and had our players with superstar contracts play like actual superstars in the clutch

mostek · Post #60 » by **mostek** » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:39 pm

Gar Paxdorf wrote:Do I understand correctly that as far as matching rules, the Bulls could trade MDJ, Snell, Brewer, Amundsen, and James (if all those last three are indeed signed next year) and a couple picks for Melo in a S&T where he starts at like 18 mil or so, and then we could still sign Mirotic with the full MLE? Is that allowed? Making a trade where you absorb a lot of salary with cap space and then still have the full MLE?

If I understand you correctly, and you are talking just those players, it is not enough. They can take back 150% of the salary, or $5M more, which ever is less, which is not close. If you are talking about using amnesty on boozer first, opening up cap space, and then just sending out enough in salary, so his salary would fit, that is legal, but you only get the RMLE. Melo is going to get his full $22.76M, or very close to it, so that is the number to target anyway