The myth of Reinsdorf's cheapness

[Eduardo]

This was being discussed on B&B a bit. Where do you think this myth began? Is it a myth, or truth? He spent on the White Sox after 2005. He spent on the late 90's Bulls and the recent Bulls. We all know of the Jay Williams incident. Many ex players wind up with the organization. He is very loyal. Where does the idea that Jerry is cheap come from?

[HomoSapien]

That's actually a good question. I think it has to do with the Bulls not paying the luxury tax for many years. Possibly is also related to our extremely low payroll after the dynasty years. It obviously was a big point that was brought up when the bench mob was dissolved.

[musiqsoulchild]

This was being discussed on B&B a bit. Where do you think this myth began? Is it a myth, or truth? He spent on the White Sox after 2005. He spent on the late 90's Bulls and the recent Bulls. We all know of the Jay Williams incident. Many ex players wind up with the organization. He is very loyal. Where does the idea that Jerry is cheap come from?

Good question.

My guess is that it comes from watching owners like Cuban winning a chip by not caring about money.

(And then conveniently forgetting that Cuban demolished the team right after)

[pylb]

He's more "careful" with his money spending than owners in other big markets.

[jc23]

Pax just said on Waddle and Silvy that the Bulls had plenty of calls for teams offering $$$ for our 2nd round pick.

Said JR is all in to improve the team this season.


IMO had the Bulls gotten lebron we would have paid as much or more then miami to continue to contend. Or had Rose stayed healthy i think we would have put major money into the roster.

As it was we still put up a hefty amount into the roster over the last 3 seasons.

JR is not cheap he is frugal and opportunistic with his money. Do i wish he spent more, yes, but outside of bky, ny, lal and dallas who really over spends to win in this league.

[IrishBeatdown]

It's not a myth. Jerry Reinsdorf is cheap. He isn't an outright owner like Cuban, therefore his bottom line is more important to his investors. Remember, he is chairman of a group of investors who expect return on their coin. I don't think he is terminally cheap, but the Sox and Bulls have consistently been run very frugally by Reinsdorf. When the respective fanbases clamored for spending, though, he has answered the bell at times. I think as a default he is thinking about ways to cut costs rather than add that extra player.

It has always been this way and it will always be this way until someone else own the Bulls.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

It comes from having one of the richest teams in the league and never spending that money back on the roster in any sort of excess. You know, like the definition of cheap.

[MrFortune3]

It's not a myth. He runs the Bulls like a true business and makes more financial business decisions to increase the bottom line than he makes basketball decisions to improve the team at all costs.

Until last year we were what, the only team to never pay the luxury tax? That is borderline impossible unless you mandate it to be so.
He runs a big market team with one of the greatest legacies in the NBA as if it was a small market team.
No one wants the Bulls to operate at a loss but major elite players don't come here, they are rarely if ever itching to come to Chicago when searching for a big market club and until we see the money spent it will continue to be true.

Which is hilarious since he runs the White Sox as if they're a passion.

[econprof]

It's not a myth. Jerry Reinsdorf is cheap. He isn't an outright owner like Cuban, therefore his bottom line is more important to his investors. Remember, he is chairman of a group of investors who expect return on their coin. I don't think he is terminally cheap, but the Sox and Bulls have consistently been run very frugally by Reinsdorf. When the respective fanbases clamored for spending, though, he has answered the bell at times. I think as a default he is thinking about ways to cut costs rather than add that extra player.

It has always been this way and it will always be this way until someone else own the Bulls.

I agree that owners who buy teams as a billionaire's hobby generally outspend owners who buy teams as a business. That is to be expected. It doesn't make the latter owners "cheap" (and all that the term connotes.) It merely explains differences in spending proclivities. But the Reinsdorf-led investment group has actually spent quite a lot on baseball players, perhaps because this is very much Reinsdorf favorite sport. This website http://www.stevetheump.com/Payrolls.htm#2013_payroll gives the ranking of the White Sox opening day payroll for the last 10 years (counting backwards from 2014): 20, 8, 11, 5, 7, 12, 5, 4 13, 14. That puts the payroll in the top half of the league in 9 of 10 years despite attendance that is routinely in the bottom half of the league. Now the Bulls payroll is another story -- consistently very low during the dog years, but around the cap for the past few.

[ryan44]

It's not a myth. He runs the Bulls like a true business and makes more financial business decisions to increase the bottom line than he makes basketball decisions to improve the team at all costs.

Until last year we were what, the only team to never pay the luxury tax? That is borderline impossible unless you mandate it to be so.
He runs a big market team with one of the greatest legacies in the NBA as if it was a small market team.
No one wants the Bulls to operate at a loss but major elite players don't come here, they are rarely if ever itching to come to Chicago when searching for a big market club and until we see the money spent it will continue to be true.

Which is hilarious since he runs the White Sox as if they're a passion.

This is probably where the fanbase starts to splinter in terms of how they view the FO. Do I consider it "cheap" to run the franchise with financial incentives at the forefront the majority of the time? No I don't. I don't live in a fantasy world where owners are basketball fans first and businessmen second. That's not the case most of the time. How do businessmen get the money to be in a position to own a franchise? By looking at finances first, and not blowing money simply because it's there.

[dice]

if he was cheap he would be more or less ENTIRELY concerned with profits. he is not. he's just not as free-wheeling as we the fans would like him to be. no sports owner is, save maybe prokhorov. and that's just 'cause no nets fan would have the unmitigated gall to suggest that he spend more

donald sterling was cheap

[SHO'NUFF]

Jordan started it.

[coldfish]

Compared to basically every other owner of a sports franchise, he is cheap. Its probably because most sports franchises are playthings. The Bulls are one of the few sports organizations that are run like a business.

If you need evidence, just look at the Bulls spending versus revenue, number of times paying lux tax versus market size, Reinsdorf comments like "why should I have to pay the tax for a winner?" and "I'm going to regret this."

[kyrv]

This was being discussed on B&B a bit. Where do you think this myth began? Is it a myth, or truth? He spent on the White Sox after 2005. He spent on the late 90's Bulls and the recent Bulls. We all know of the Jay Williams incident. Many ex players wind up with the organization. He is very loyal. Where does the idea that Jerry is cheap come from?

Their show has been shockingly great basketball talk all week. They are being factual and logical and not shock jocks. Hope it keeps up.

And I found people that think even less of Bill Simmons than I do. He's awful.

[kyrv]

Compared to basically every other owner of a sports franchise, he is cheap. Its probably because most sports franchises are playthings. The Bulls are one of the few sports organizations that are run like a business.

If you need evidence, just look at the Bulls spending versus revenue, number of times paying lux tax versus market size, Reinsdorf comments like "why should I have to pay the tax for a winner?" and "I'm going to regret this."

But the argument of 'they should spend more because they can afford to' is not really an edict that most successful business people use.

The regret comment was stupid and was also decades ago. And didn't effect spending.

When did he say why should I pay tax for a winner?

And those are comments. Comments are not spending.

I do notice with both Jerry's people like to glomp on to offhand comments for decades. Cherry picking comments, many of which are taken out of context. But anyway that's not spending of course, just odd.

[coldfish]

Compared to basically every other owner of a sports franchise, he is cheap. Its probably because most sports franchises are playthings. The Bulls are one of the few sports organizations that are run like a business.

If you need evidence, just look at the Bulls spending versus revenue, number of times paying lux tax versus market size, Reinsdorf comments like "why should I have to pay the tax for a winner?" and "I'm going to regret this."

But the argument of 'they should spend more because they can afford to' is not really an edict that most successful business people use.

Like I said, relative to other sports franchises, Reinsdorf is cheap. As a businessman, he is just fine. Its not a positive that the Bulls have a businessman running the team.

The regret comment was stupid and was also decades ago. And didn't effect spending.

When did he say why should I pay tax for a winner?

And those are comments. Comments are not spending.

I do notice with both Jerry's people like to glomp on to offhand comments for decades. Cherry picking comments, many of which are taken out of context. But anyway that's not spending of course, just odd.

Does someone have the link to the Reddit page where a person showed the Bulls were 3rd in revenue and something like 22nd in spending?

.....

Before we go there, you can't evaluate "cheapness" by looking at deals in hindsight. We weren't in the Berto as the team got trade offers. We can't possibly know all the times the Bulls had an opportunity to upgrade talent but didn't due to financial reasons. All that we have is the overall spending evidence and a few quotes to back up the fact that JR really doesn't like to spend money. Even the few quotes we have are rather embarrassing. Its not like a guy is going to publicly tell the fanbase that they are screwed.

......

The "why should I have to pay the tax for a winner" line was from a few years ago when he was interviewed and asked about it. Same conversation when he said he would pay the tax if he had a top 4 team and his personnel guys had an opportunity to put the team over the top. The very next few lines were him bitching about having to do even that.

......

Last comment: Reinsdorf is NOT an idiot. Being cheap and being a moron are two different things. I would rather have Reinsdorf than an idiot owner even if his spendthriftness hurts the team. Dolan is an idiot, for example.

[AirP.]

He does spend money, but he spends it like a small market franchise. When you're making around 50 million in profit each year you could handle going into the luxury tax a couple of years to retain talent.

He had the front office move Deng for a guy they could instantly cut to pocket nearly 20 million dollars. Now I understand Deng was going to leave, but that's another good player that would have been on the roster last year and it would probably make acquiring Love or Melo a whole lot easier with signing and trading Deng in that trade.

Think about it... every 2 years the Bulls profit around 100 million dollars, let that sink in when you think about all the talent that just left for "space". Asik should have been retained but oh no, the luxury tax. Deng could have been retained but hey, if we move him for Bynum we profit another 20 million then we would have.

The franchise makes enough money to keep a good profit while retaining talent, they don't.

[PJ Brown]

I agree with the "cheap" as in run like a business categorization. I just don't agree that it's such a bad thing, especially in the NBA, where reckless spending can sabotage a franchise.

[FecesOfDeath]

Did Reinsdorf not pay MJ $63 million in a span of two seasons?

[blumeany]

I think a lot of it actually goes back to Jordan and Phil Jackson. There were several times when you heard rumblings of Reinsdorf trying to nickel and dime them, despite their success and the millions that brought with it. That's where it really started. People thought: "Wow, if he's haggling with JORDAN, he must be CHEAP."