Kevin Love to the Cavs- OFFICIAL -MERGED

[Proven_Winner]

Wiggins potential is wrapped up in his elite athleticism. However, his college and summer league numbers dont smack of future star player, and he has a lot of developing to do in his skills areas like handling and shooting.

Thank you

I can almost make a argument that McDermott had a much better college career than Wiggins did.

But I understand the athleticism. But again, I don't see how that made the Cavs package that much greater than the bulls. Which tells me maybe our package was never actually an option for them.

Because of the hype and potential. McD is older and more skilled now, but Wiggins is younger and Cavs believed he has tons of potential to be better than everyone picked after him. Doug undoubtedly had a better college career than Wiggins I don't even thinks it's debatable.

McD is looked at as a finished product while Wiggins is looked at as a prospect with tons of room to grow. That's why that package looked better. No one can say definitively it was better or not because both guys are still rooks, but it is a no brainer that they'd rather have Wiggins than McD/ Mirotic.

[weneeda2guard]

Wiggins potential is wrapped up in his elite athleticism. However, his college and summer league numbers dont smack of future star player, and he has a lot of developing to do in his skills areas like handling and shooting.

Thank you

I can almost make a argument that McDermott had a much better college career than Wiggins did.

But I understand the athleticism. But again, I don't see how that made the Cavs package that much greater than the bulls. Which tells me maybe our package was never actually an option for them.

We will never know. GS felt that the sum of Klay and Lee > Love (and probably Martin). GarPax may have felt that within a couple of seasons the sum of Mirotic/McD will be better than Love.

That's cool if they felt that way, I just don't agree with it. I say if it's a legit star you grab him and don't speculate on unproven like McDermott and mirotic. Gs can afford to make that call cause they window of winning a championship is not as open as the bulls based on them being in the west and us east, and 2 Klay and Lee are more proven than us placing that much faith in McDermott and mirotic.

Being in the east with Miami broken up and a shot to keep love away from teaming up with kyrie and lebron, we should have def been more active on getting love and i just don't buy that Wiggins is so great that it made our package laughable enough for minny to not at least consider it and for minny to take on mediocre young and busted bennet. Cavs package sound like a good settlement package rather than minny hitting a home run

[Mech Engineer]

Wiggins potential is wrapped up in his elite athleticism. However, his college and summer league numbers dont smack of future star player, and he has a lot of developing to do in his skills areas like handling and shooting.

Thank you

I can almost make a argument that McDermott had a much better college career than Wiggins did.

But I understand the athleticism. But again, I don't see how that made the Cavs package that much greater than the bulls. Which tells me maybe our package was never actually an option for them.

Because of the hype and potential. McD is older and more skilled now, but Wiggins is younger and Cavs believed he has tons of potential to be better than everyone picked after him. Doug undoubtedly had a better college career than Wiggins I don't even thinks it's debatable.

McD is looked at as a finished product while Wiggins is looked at as a prospect with tons of room to grow. That's why that package looked better. No one can say definitively it was better or not because both guys are still rooks, but it is a no brainer that they'd rather have Wiggins than McD/ Mirotic.

Exactly!! That's the point. I don't know why would anybody doubt this. The NBA championship history/draft is built on potential especially with the top picks. Off-course, not many picks are unanimous because it is not an exact science.

Minnesota doesn't care if McDermott becomes a better player than Wiggins three years from now which probably means Wiggins is a bust or an ordinary player. McDermott is not going to be a #1 option playing both sides of the ball like LeBron/Duncan/Durant type players(chances are very, very low). If Wiggins was not available, it is a different story.

Every organization's goal is to win a championship eventually and Wiggins provides a possible path compared to McDermott. McDermott might make the team better now and later but not as good as Wiggins might possibly make. GarPax had no chance once Wiggins was available.

The irony is "weeneeda" is arguing about getting a star like Love and seems to understand the difficulty of getting a star but at the same time dismissing how Minnesota would want the same with Wiggins.

Look at how the fortunes of a lowly franchise like the Clippers changed with Blake Griffin even with Donald Sterling as the owner. They might not have won a championship but because of that draft pick who is a star, there are in the conversation now, could attract CP3/Rivers etc...

[Proven_Winner]

Thank you

I can almost make a argument that McDermott had a much better college career than Wiggins did.

But I understand the athleticism. But again, I don't see how that made the Cavs package that much greater than the bulls. Which tells me maybe our package was never actually an option for them.

Because of the hype and potential. McD is older and more skilled now, but Wiggins is younger and Cavs believed he has tons of potential to be better than everyone picked after him. Doug undoubtedly had a better college career than Wiggins I don't even thinks it's debatable.

McD is looked at as a finished product while Wiggins is looked at as a prospect with tons of room to grow. That's why that package looked better. No one can say definitively it was better or not because both guys are still rooks, but it is a no brainer that they'd rather have Wiggins than McD/ Mirotic.

Exactly!! That's the point. I don't know why would anybody doubt this. The NBA championship history/draft is built on potential especially with the top picks. Off-course, not many picks are unanimous because it is not an exact science.

Minnesota doesn't care if McDermott becomes a better player than Wiggins three years from now which probably means Wiggins is a bust or an ordinary player. McDermott is not going to be a #1 option playing both sides of the ball like LeBron/Duncan/Durant type players(chances are very, very low). If Wiggins was not available, it is a different story.

Every organization's goal is to win a championship eventually and Wiggins provides a possible path compared to McDermott. McDermott might make the team better now and later but not as good as Wiggins might possibly make. GarPax had no chance once Wiggins was available.

The irony is "weeneeda" is arguing about getting a star like Love and seems to understand the difficulty of getting a star but at the same time dismissing how Minnesota would want the same with Wiggins.

And this is why they took Wiggins. Minnesota would look like idiots for not taking that trade because even though he didn't show much in college they need more potential guys and now they have 5 guys wiht boom/bust potential (wiggins, lavine, GR3, Bennett, and Dieng). Minnesota has set themselves up like the Sixers where they have so many potentially good guys that at least 2 of them have to end up being really good.

[FecesOfDeath]

Because of the hype and potential. McD is older and more skilled now, but Wiggins is younger and Cavs believed he has tons of potential to be better than everyone picked after him. Doug undoubtedly had a better college career than Wiggins I don't even thinks it's debatable.

McD is looked at as a finished product while Wiggins is looked at as a prospect with tons of room to grow. That's why that package looked better. No one can say definitively it was better or not because both guys are still rooks, but it is a no brainer that they'd rather have Wiggins than McD/ Mirotic.

Doug is far from a finished product (We're not going down that road again...), but I get your point.

I do question whether Wiggins has that drive to reach his potential. Durant and Oden performed at a level in their freshman seasons that warranted their draft positions. Wiggins performed at roughly the same level and with the same numbers as Shabazz Muhammad did his freshman season with the same amount of hype, and Wiggins is probably just as raw as Muhammad was entering his rookie season.

[Proven_Winner]

Because of the hype and potential. McD is older and more skilled now, but Wiggins is younger and Cavs believed he has tons of potential to be better than everyone picked after him. Doug undoubtedly had a better college career than Wiggins I don't even thinks it's debatable.

McD is looked at as a finished product while Wiggins is looked at as a prospect with tons of room to grow. That's why that package looked better. No one can say definitively it was better or not because both guys are still rooks, but it is a no brainer that they'd rather have Wiggins than McD/ Mirotic.

Doug is far from a finished product (We're not going down that road again...), but I get your point.

I do question whether Wiggins has that drive to reach his potential. Durant and Oden performed at a level in their freshman seasons that warranted their draft positions. Wiggins performed at roughly the same level and with the same numbers as Shabazz Muhammad did his freshman season with the same amount of hype, and Wiggins is probably just as raw as Muhammad was entering his rookie season.

Well my bad I meant to say looked at as more of a finished product. Mostly because he's older and is looked at as nonathletic shooter who can't play D.

[Axl Rose]

Wiggins potential is wrapped up in his elite athleticism. However, his college and summer league numbers dont smack of future star player, and he has a lot of developing to do in his skills areas like handling and shooting.

Thank you

I can almost make a argument that McDermott had a much better college career than Wiggins did.

But I understand the athleticism. But again, I don't see how that made the Cavs package that much greater than the bulls. Which tells me maybe our package was never actually an option for them.

McDermott hands down had a better college career....however that dont mean he'll be a better pro than Wiggins

but i agree our package was good and might actually turn out better.....but if Wiggins works hard i can def see him being a Paul George type player....maybe better but i'll keep exceptions realistic for now

still i think wolves made a great deal....teams wish they could get a prospect like Wiggins for a disgruntled star

[fleet]

With a freshman player, you cant compare careers with a senior. Wiggins was imo, the best player in college basketball by the end of the year. Mixed bag in the NCAAs for him. But Wiggins was a better player by the end of the season that he was in the beginning.

[kingkirk]

This Wiggins talk completely baffles me. I don't even...

I mean, there was many people who didn't like deal 16 & 19 for Doug, but now, Wiggins as a prospect and the central piece of the deal for Love isn't that much more enticing than our offer which included McDermott as the main prize / young talent.

Please.

[heathmalc]

Well, I finally got through 67 forum-pages of opinions and discussion. As a Cavaliers' fan, I try to keep things as realistic as possible, so as not to set myself up when my favorite team doesn't meet my often-lofty expectations. I learned my lesson(s) during the 08-09 and 09/10 seasons.

First, let me get this out of the way: I think Rose is finally back. I have watched every game he has played for team-USA, and 6 of their practices. He definitely is rusty, but as far as physically - he is as sound as anyone could hope for.

I think that your Bulls pulled off one of the most under-rated signings of the summer, getting Pau. Melo wasn't ever happening, and even if he did, I question how well he would have fit with your team/Thibs.

My Cavaliers definitely had a great Summer! Even if LeBron and Love don't happen, they would have signed someone to a max contract, and they lucked into Wiggins. But, that is all water under the bridge, as Wiggens and the unknown max-player became LeBron & Love. Because of LeBron, they were able to sign Miller/Jones, and when the Love deal was known, it tipped the scales for Marion (Dallas' best defender last season, and the main reason the Mavericks took the Spurs to 7 games).

But for every lawn that is green, there always seems to be someone that thinks the one across the road is greener!

We can discuss rotations all day long. We can discuss chemistry all day long. We can discuss who has the best veterans, the best young players, and the best coaches. The absolute, undeniable truth is this: Both groups of fans have a legitimate argument for just about every point. Which leads me to:

I think the Cavaliers and Bulls are very likely to be the two teams with the highest number of wins in the NBA this season. Anywhere between 60 and??? Yes, I think both teams will win 60+. There is too much talent. The two teams could literally put together an all-star team to represent the eastern conference....and have a good shot of winning!

I, like many others, also see them both squaring off in the ECF. I'm not naive enough to believe that Miami and Washington,etc is just going to roll over for either of our favorite squads, I just don't see any other realistic conclusion - regardless of how many times I go back and look for faults in my theorem.

So, when it comes down to my Cavaliers, and your Bulls, I look extra deep into what can go wrong, and why who will win. And the conclusion is the same for every other topic that has been argued on this forum or any other, in connection to these two teams meeting up in the ECF: It is a coin toss!

A Cavs' fan could easily argue that with Irving, LeBron, Love, Waiters, and a really nice bench, and likely another signing at center, that they (the Cavs) are the favorites.

A Chicago fan however, can just as easily argue that their team made the playoffs, had a top-two defense, won almost 50 games last year, and this season will have a healthy Rose, added Pau Gasol, Mirotic, McBuckets, all while Butler, Taj and Snell all get a year better. And most of all they have real motivation: The "team" is stronger, Miami is broke-up, Indiana wont be around, and an old nemesis from within the division is their main rival keeping them out of a possible finals berth.

Arguments are legit from both sides.

I got thinking about this real hard, and I started looking at adages and how/why they came about, and if the situation paralleled either of our situations. I found one, that did, and does; it is from the Bible of all places; Proverbs.

( Be suspicious of people or situations that offer a large benefit for very little in return. This is similar to, "You can't get something for nothing. )

Which basically means: If it seems too good to be true, then it probably is!

So, in conclusion, what say we just enjoy this ride, and know that the Central Division will once again lift the entire eastern conference from it's sink hole. The fact that one of our teams has to beat the other is the very best tune-up for a championship series either could ask for!

[Proven_Winner]

With a freshman player, you cant compare careers with a senior. Wiggins was imo, the best player in college basketball by the end of the year. Mixed bag in the NCAAs for him. But Wiggins was a better player by the end of the season that he was in the beginning.

Well if we compare freshman years they were pretty even. But Doug didn't get the same amount of minutes Andrew did so to make it somewhat fair you have to go to Doug's 2nd year in which he was better no doubt. The thing is though he was saying one guy had a better college season than the other guy and looking at the numbers it's hard to try to debate Wiggins was better than Doug.

[improper]

Because of the hype and potential. McD is older and more skilled now, but Wiggins is younger and Cavs believed he has tons of potential to be better than everyone picked after him. Doug undoubtedly had a better college career than Wiggins I don't even thinks it's debatable.

McD is looked at as a finished product while Wiggins is looked at as a prospect with tons of room to grow. That's why that package looked better. No one can say definitively it was better or not because both guys are still rooks, but it is a no brainer that they'd rather have Wiggins than McD/ Mirotic.

To be fair, the Cavs thought Embiid was the best player in the draft and would have picked him first, but his injuries scared them off from drafting him number one, and understandably as they were chasing LeBron and probably couldn't afford to draft someone who wouldn't be ready to play until next season. Jabari was in play too, but I think his total lack of defensive effort and obvious conditioning issues dropped him behind Wiggins on their board.

I wouldn't say that either McDermott or Wiggins is a finished product, but I think it's undeniable that Wiggins has the higher ceiling due to his elite athleticism and age (19 as opposed to 22).

[Proven_Winner]

Because of the hype and potential. McD is older and more skilled now, but Wiggins is younger and Cavs believed he has tons of potential to be better than everyone picked after him. Doug undoubtedly had a better college career than Wiggins I don't even thinks it's debatable.

McD is looked at as a finished product while Wiggins is looked at as a prospect with tons of room to grow. That's why that package looked better. No one can say definitively it was better or not because both guys are still rooks, but it is a no brainer that they'd rather have Wiggins than McD/ Mirotic.

To be fair, the Cavs thought Embiid was the best player in the draft and would have picked him first, but his injuries scared them off from drafting him number one, and understandably as they were chasing LeBron and probably couldn't afford to draft someone who wouldn't be ready to play until next season. Jabari was in play too, but I think his total lack of defensive effort and obvious conditioning issues dropped him behind Wiggins on their board.

I wouldn't say that either McDermott or Wiggins is a finished product, but I think it's undeniable that Wiggins has the higher ceiling due to his elite athleticism and age (19 as opposed to 22).

That's fair but in the post under that I did say looked at as more of a finished product and it's because of those 2 numbers you stated.

[RememberLu]

every time I think of how Lebron gets anything he wants, it makes me mad.

This douche is due for a run of bad luck...any day now.

[drosestruts]

every time I think of how Lebron gets anything he wants, it makes me mad.

This douche is due for a run of bad luck...any day now.

Well he spent the first part of his career on a team that failed to get him any meaninful help. He left went to Miami and soon there after Wade's knees were breaking down.

He's had his bad luck.

[mhi]

every time I think of how Lebron gets anything he wants, it makes me mad.

This douche is due for a run of bad luck...any day now.

If this seriously creates a negative emotion (anger) in you, I think you need to reevaluate your self and how that self relates to the world.

[RememberLu]

every time I think of how Lebron gets anything he wants, it makes me mad.

This douche is due for a run of bad luck...any day now.

If this seriously creates a negative emotion (anger) in you, I think you need to reevaluate your self and how that self relates to the world.

What? Lol

Save that eastern zen bs for some other sucker

[Stratmaster]

every time I think of how Lebron gets anything he wants, it makes me mad.

This douche is due for a run of bad luck...any day now.

If this seriously creates a negative emotion (anger) in you, I think you need to reevaluate your self and how that self relates to the world.

And so I said to myself...self...

[fleet]

every time I think of how Lebron gets anything he wants, it makes me mad.

This douche is due for a run of bad luck...any day now.

If this seriously creates a negative emotion (anger) in you, I think you need to reevaluate your self and how that self relates to the world.

dont come in here picking fights. Considering your record and the useless nature of this post, done witb you.

[musiqsoulchild]

every time I think of how Lebron gets anything he wants, it makes me mad.

This douche is due for a run of bad luck...any day now.

If this seriously creates a negative emotion (anger) in you, I think you need to reevaluate your self and how that self relates to the world.

I want to hear from you once LeBron leaves Cleveland in 2 years if he doesnt win a ring these nest 2 seasons.