What are the flaws of the other 2 fringe contenders? LAC/GS

[panthermark]

I know we (OK...I) talk a lot about the flaws of this team and why it hurts are title chances. But I'm curious to here the opinions on the flaws (and the positves for that matter) of the other two teams I consider in our "range". The Clippers and the Warriors.

Why do you think they can/can't win a title?

I mean, yes, I know the biggest obstacle is that they are in the west....but if Chicago swapped places with either one of them, what would be your take?

For instance, do the Clippers lack a true "go to" guy?
Are the Warriors nasty enough in the paint or do they depend too much on the three ball?

(Edit: I don't consider the Spurs, Cavs or Thunder fringe contenders....I'd say most people expect two of those three teams to be in the Finals).

[musiqsoulchild]

Really good thread. I think you should call this the counter intelligence thread.

The thing that GSW lacks the most is HUNGER. You need to have been close to greatness and failed a few times in gut-wrenching fashion before you develop that hunger.

LeBron learned this in his first stint with the Cavs. Now he just builds super teams and coasts to NBA Finals. Thats one way of doing it...especially when you are the best player of the last 2 decades.

Teams like GSW just dont have that fire that burns deep in your soul. The kind that Noah, Taj, Jimmy, Kirk, Rose have.

LAC has CP3 and Doc. They both have that desire to win at the highest level. But thats it. I dont think Blake has that.

I know this seems terribly arbitrary, but championships are won more on qualitative attributes than on quantitative ones.

[ingvald]

The thing that GSW lacks the most is HUNGER. You need to have been close to greatness and failed a few times in gut-wrenching fashion before you develop that hunger.

Don't forget GRIT. You've got to have an abundance of grit.

[musiqsoulchild]

The thing that GSW lacks the most is HUNGER. You need to have been close to greatness and failed a few times in gut-wrenching fashion before you develop that hunger.

Don't forget GRIT. You've got to have an abundance of grit.

I know you are joking, but the point stands.

The Spurs are a superb example of this. Pistons of Isiah are a great example of this. So also MJ and our beloved Bulls of the 90's.

They ALL took several hits on their chins and behinds before resolving their inner demons and holding up the trophy.

[ingvald]

I know you are joking, but the point stands.

The Spurs are a superb example of this. Pistons of Isiah are a great example of this. So also MJ and our beloved Bulls of the 90's.

They ALL took several hits on their chins and behinds before resolving their inner demons and holding up the trophy.

I agree with you to a point. There are plenty of guys in the league collecting a paycheck and the only hunger they feel is munchies after the post-game weed parties.

[Mech Engineer]

Clippers have the same issue as the Bulls...a second playmaker. On top of it, their first playmaker is just that and is a reluctant scorer. Chris Paul has come up empty in the playoffs too many times. He is a great regular season player but he seems to get out-matched against elite PGs and unfortunately for him, there are too many athletic PGs(or scoring PGs) in the league right now.

They took a great step in getting Spencer Hawes who might be the final piece to the puzzle. They need DeAndre Jordan to set the tone but he seems to be a bad fit in close games because of the lack of his foul shooting/offense.

Blake Griffin is an enigma. He looks to have improved from his previous years but there is something missing in him which I cannot tell. It is like what was happening with LeBron in Cleveland. He looks dominating most of the time but something inevitably goes wrong.

And, Doc Rivers might be a little bit over-rated, IMO. He rode Thibs's defense to a championship. But, before and after, he is more of a inspirational leader type like Mark Jackson rather than a strategic leader like Popovich. He is obviously a good coach but he is a tier below Popovich/Phil Jackson types to trust completely.

[mj234eva]

Clippers, don't have defense on the wings. Also, in the playoffs, although CP3 has good/great numbers, other PG's do too, against him. Even if overall, a couple of the starting PG's were inefficient, they still got the looks they wanted against him. He can not contain them. Plus, their interior D hadn't been the best either. I think they improved some last season, not sure though. Also, Blake improved last year, but he still scores in the post mostly off him being superior athletically than the guy guarding him. They have all the flashiness, that appears to look great, but once you dig deeper, they lack any real substance.

The Warriors are an exciting team, but Curry is a bad defender (he plays D with his hands), David Lee is the white Boozer in contesting shots in the paint. Bogut is hurt often. I do think they would have beaten the Clippers had Bogut played in the playoffs for them. Their bench wasn't good (last year), not sure who they added/lost this season.

[Indomitable]

Clippers have the same issue as the Bulls...a second playmaker. On top of it, their first playmaker is just that and is a reluctant scorer. Chris Paul has come up empty in the playoffs too many times. He is a great regular season player but he seems to get out-matched against elite PGs and unfortunately for him, there are too many athletic PGs(or scoring PGs) in the league right now.

It is like what was happening with LeBron in Cleveland. He looks dominating most of the time but something inevitably goes wrong.

Lebron is a quitter and I do not think Blake quits.

Lebron left lasts years game 5 with 7:30 second left up 2 points.

He came back in 4:30 down 4 pts. He played for 1 minute and left again. Then they got blown out. Lebron is a physical marvel but is tin man. He quit in a elimination with 3:30 seconds after getting rest. Lebron is a big front runner but he is a great talent. Wade and Bosh fought to the end but there Leader had already conceded.
http://www.nba.com/games/20140605/MIASAS/gameinfo.html

[dice]

i dispute the categorization as "fringe" contenders. at least in the cases of the bulls and LAC

[kyrv]

i dispute the categorization as "fringe" contenders. at least in the cases of the bulls and LAC

Thank you. OP tried to slide that in. Almost made it.

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I rarely disagree with msq but I will here. I don't think it has anything to do with hunger or grit, and more with talent and ability. Blake is very good, but there is a combination of teams concentrating on him and he's a bit overhyped by the media at times. GSW is very good but maybe not as much talent as OKC/SA/LAC. GSW may have to beat three good teams just to get to the finals to face another good team. Tough challenge.

[Rerisen]

GS just needs health and more experience.

LAC need a first option, they have 2 great 2nd options though. Sort of like the prime Deron/Boozer teams.

[NZB2323]

The clippers don't have rim protectors and their big men can't shoot free throws.

The Warriors have health issues with Bogut and without him their defense is not good enough.

IMHO the Mavs have a better chance this year than the Clippers or Warriors. They took the Spurs to 7 last year and picked up Tyson Chandler Parsons.

[Hans Embiid]

GS just needs health and more experience.

LAC need a first option, they have 2 great 2nd options though. Sort of like the prime Deron/Boozer teams.

Blake averaged 24/10/4 last season. He is a good 1st option.

[consultant]

Really surprised people are not pointing out defense as the main issue for both teams. Great regular season teams based on offense generally struggle in the playoffs.

[Nikos Beard]

The Clippers desperately need someone like Jimmy. Barnes is a decent 3 and D guy, but nowhere near the level you need to combat the Durants, the Lebrons, the Carmelos, the PGs. They need someone who they can point to and say "lock him up", and he goes out and does it. Offensively I think they're fine. Paul, Griffin, Jordan, Crawford, Redick, Hawes and so on is a lot of firepower. But I don't think they're going to win a championship unless they get an elite wing defender.

[panthermark]

GS just needs health and more experience.

LAC need a first option, they have 2 great 2nd options though. Sort of like the prime Deron/Boozer teams.

Blake averaged 24/10/4 last season. He is a good 1st option.

I admit I have not watched him in great detail...but he reminds me of Love (which is a guy I wanted). While he puts up big numbers, he isn't really a "go to" guy that you can throw the ball to and say....."the game is on the line...we need this bucket....do your thing".

[panthermark]

i dispute the categorization as "fringe" contenders. at least in the cases of the bulls and LAC

I don't know....call it 2nd tier then.

I don't think we are in the same class as the top teams.

I think we are at the same level as the Clippers...we just get more hype because we don't have to face the gauntlet of the west in the play-offs and because that Cleveland team is brand new.

From a "team strength" level....if we swapped places with the Clippers, I don't think too many people would have us getting past the 2nd round in the west simply because you are most likely heading to OKC or San Antonio.

[Mech Engineer]

The Clippers desperately need someone like Jimmy. Barnes is a decent 3 and D guy, but nowhere near the level you need to combat the Durants, the Lebrons, the Carmelos, the PGs. They need someone who they can point to and say "lock him up", and he goes out and does it. Offensively I think they're fine. Paul, Griffin, Jordan, Crawford, Redick, Hawes and so on is a lot of firepower. But I don't think they're going to win a championship unless they get an elite wing defender.

They got beat by a Grizzlies team couple of times who have no elite wing players. Blake has to do more when matched against good bigs. He might have great stats as an offensive player during the regular season and looks great. But, those stats should matter in the playoffs.

He seems to be more like a Melo than a Durant.

[panthermark]

i dispute the categorization as "fringe" contenders. at least in the cases of the bulls and LAC

Thank you. OP tried to slide that in. Almost made it.

I didn't really try to slide it. The word fringe is in both the title and the initial post.

As I referenced in the prior post, we have a built in advantage that teams in the west don't get (like the Big 10 vs the SEC in football).
If Golden State could swap positions with us, their odds of winning a title would jump up quite a bit while ours would drop like a rock.

With that said...we ARE in the east, so I'll take the advantage. But I just see us as similar level teams, which are behind the top 3 teams.

[mab2039]

Clippers are missing wing defender. Warriors have a very balanced team but health is a concern here. And imo Warriors tend to turn the ball over too many times as well.