The Derrick Rose Thread - Is It Thread 2 or 47?

[Gmoney3]

I think Rose's athleticism is still there, but he can't, or is unwilling to, use it constantly over an 82 game season. Also, it seems like he just doesn't like dunking anymore. This play, for example, could easily have been a highlight dunk if he wanted to do it:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x28QOlmOoIE[/youtube]

I think there is a quote somewhere that Derrick flatout said he isn't going to be looking to throw down crazy dunks essentially to conserve himself. Maybe preseason quote?

I am very very happy with the athleticism it looks like Derrick has regained, I clearly see him showing some jawdropping explosiveness lately.

That being said he still looks a smidge less athletic than he used to be. Something was just freakish about his speed & hops before.

[PMONSTER]

I think Rose's athleticsm is still there, but he can't, or is unwilling to, use it constantly over an 82 game season. Also, it seems like he just doesn't like dunking anymore. This play, for example, could easily have been a highlight dunk if he wanted to do it:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x28QOlmOoIE[/youtube]

He got up the court in 4 seconds while dodging defenders, while dribbling. I mean, how much faster can you get?

[pduh01]

I think Rose's athleticsm is still there, but he can't, or is unwilling to, use it constantly over an 82 game season. Also, it seems like he just doesn't like dunking anymore. This play, for example, could easily have been a highlight dunk if he wanted to do it:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x28QOlmOoIE[/youtube]

He got up the court in 4 seconds while dodging defenders, while dribbling. I mean, how much faster can you get?

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDZBzvTDhGU[/youtube]


Sorry couldn't resist

[bullsRlife]

Nothings changed with his speed. Its just that before he was unchained, and didn't over think anything. He would just GO. The only difference now is he doesn't zig zag as wide with his moves.

He had very sweeping movements before. Now they're more contained, and short. Before all his moves were wide, and gliding.

He used to just throw the ball in front of him in half court, and was uber confident with his dribble moves. Now there's a slight hesitation because of his rusty handles. He would take one dribble, takes 2 steps, and its over. He could recatch the ball, and take his wide glides.

Just wait til his handles are fully back. If there's any speed loss, its by less than a %, and slight hesitation.

[TimRobbins]

That being said he still looks a smidge less athletic than he used to be. Something was just freakish about his speed & hops before.

The full court speed is still there, but the freakish explosion and hops which allowed him to go 1 on 5 isn't there anymore. It's also somewhat expected.

[Krazy!!!]

The one thing I haven't seen from Rose that I do worry is completely gone is his ability to get to a "launching point". One of the things that made him and Russel Westbrook so comparable was their ability to be a danger to explode to the rim when they were 8-10 feet out. Just pure explosion up and toward the rim for layups or dunks. Russ still does it. Rose very much does not do it anymore. At this point Rose doesn't really take off for the rim in a half court situation unless he's 5 feet and in. Safer for his body most likely, but also so much easier to defend and really does make Rose a less dynamic player.

Having to only worry about 5 feet and in as opposed to 10 feet and in makes it a lot easier on the defense. If you allow Rose to get within 10 feet but not to 5 feet, he's going to settle for the push shot whereas in the past he was a liability to take off and draw fouls. I wonder if it's something he's just choosing to do or if it's something he simply can't do anymore.

In the open court, with no bigs back, he'll take off from about 7 feet for a layup. But we need it in the half court.

If he can still do it great...but I'm not going to worry about certain aspects of Rose's game that could potentially be detrimental toward his health (regarding) his knees long term. Scoring and getting his teammates involved is what I'm more focused on.

Derrick's two knee injuries were a backdoor cut and a simple hop step; why are we telling Derrick to protect his knee when the two times he hurt it was not from contact?

It's not something that I'm overly fixated with. Would it be the end of the world if Rose lost 20% of his God given athleticism? I get the feeling that some fans would be disappointed if it came to this.

[drbg43]

Anyone still thinking that Rose is not one of the leaders of this team? Because if so, it's due to your personal feelings about Rose.

Noone on the Bulls holds a grudge or any negative feelings towards Rose for the length of his recoveries. The fans hold that sentiment. The players sympathise with him and they saw every day how much work he put in to come back.

Rose is not a vocal person by nature but he's still the best player the Bulls have and he's in it for the right reasons. He shows with his actions what kind of person and team player he is and the rest of the team knows that. He is a damn good example to follow in terms of being a professional, a competitor, and a teammate.

We saw yesterday that when Rose does voice his frustration, the message is received. For Rose to be pissed, there's a good reason for it. Obviously the change has to start with him and his intensity but we saw that when he sets the tone, the team follows suit.

Please, the claims about how the team doesn't respond to Rose or view him as a leader should stop. They aren't founded on anything but fan sentiment.

[DaBulls82]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/KellyScaletta/status/558473423081705472[/tweet]

[DuckIII]

Rose looked great last night. He had a few games like this earlier in the year too, and then reverted to passive chucking. Hopefully, given the team's backwards slide and his own willingness to put himself in the forefront with critical comments, this time it sticks.

[SpinninHouse]

I'm not sure we could expect much more than what we've seen from Derrick this year. I mean, he's healthy. Above every thing else, he's playing every night. Yes he's had periods of struggling on both sides of the ball but he missed two full years.

He's not going to be 2011 Derrick Rose anymore but he can still be damn good. He just won't be the third best player in the NBA anymore. To win a title I would think he'd need to be a Top-10 player come play off time. It's not very often that teams win titles with out having a top-10 player -- although the Spurs did it last year. None of their guys were top-10 players.

I just want him to stay healthy and for us to win a championship. Is that so much to ask?

[2Chainz]

I'm not sure we could expect much more than what we've seen from Derrick this year. I mean, he's healthy. Above every thing else, he's playing every night. Yes he's had periods of struggling on both sides of the ball but he missed two full years.

He's not going to be 2011 Derrick Rose anymore but he can still be damn good. He just won't be the third best player in the NBA anymore. To win a title I would think he'd need to be a Top-10 player come play off time. It's not very often that teams win titles with out having a top-10 player -- although the Spurs did it last year. None of their guys were top-10 players.

I just want him to stay healthy and for us to win a championship. Is that so much to ask?

What is your fixation with this Rose and the 3rd best player in the NBA thing? The difference from players 3-10 in the NBA isn't that significant if you look at his numbers recently they're close to his MVP season levels. If he plays like he did last night there isn't any difference between 11 Rose and today. Just different paths to get to the same place. Rose's numbers on the season may not reflect him being a top 10 player but if he's healthy and progressing he's as talented as almost anyone in the league.

[conker1]

Bill Simmons has written the first part of his annual "Trade value column" on grantland; and he hasn't been easy on Derrick (to say the least)

http://grantland.com/features/2015-nba- ... ue-part-1/

[DuckIII]

Bill Simmons has written the first part of his annual "Trade value column" on grantland; and he hasn't been easy on Derrick (to say the least)

http://grantland.com/features/2015-nba- ... ue-part-1/

I can't really disagree with anything he said except:

Then again, NBA history says it’s probably never coming back, that you can’t reclaim greatness after it hibernates for that long.

Granted, its a true statement. But "NBA history" doesn't mean a whole lot due to rapid changes in medical procedures and rehabilitation techniques. Rose didn't suffer any one injury that, based on modern medical history, is a "star killer."

The other thing I don't agree with is that the Knicks wouldn't trade STAT and a 2018 first for Rose. On the one hand, I understand his thinking - Rose's salary burns off one max free agency slot they have. But here's the thing: I don't think free agency looks good for New York at all. Simmons says the Bulls won't trade Rose because he could return to form. I think the same rationale could apply to the Knicks for why they would trade for Rose. He's shown enough at this point in the season that a desparate team (which the Knicks certainly are, tethered to long term max deal player who is a complete non-difference maker that no rational free agent would want to play with) might want to roll the dice on him at small outgoing cost. They'd have Rose, Melo and likely a top 3 pick in the draft. I like those odds better than their Melo, top pick, and free agency crap shoot odds.

[kodo]

I think Rose's athleticism is still there, but he can't, or is unwilling to, use it constantly over an 82 game season. Also, it seems like he just doesn't like dunking anymore. This play, for example, could easily have been a highlight dunk if he wanted to do it:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x28QOlmOoIE[/youtube]

Too much twisting IMO, that should stay a layup.

There was an article in Grantland about if there's actually been an increase in ACL tears or not (doctors said yes, both in the general population and a huge increase in athletes) and they're almost all non-contact and caused by players trying to avoid contact while planting and taking off at the same time.

In that situation Rose starts off on the left side, crosses over to the right to avoid a defender, then crosses back over the left a little bit on the jump.

If it's just a simple straight line drive to the basket I think it's safe for Rose to dunk, but not on cuts or change of direction.

IMO that's why Westbrook hasn't had too many knee problems even though he's also explosive. He's explosive but he's also far, far less shifty and hurky-jerky than Rose. When he dunks, he pretty much just goes in a straight line.

[Keller61]

I think Rose's athleticism is still there, but he can't, or is unwilling to, use it constantly over an 82 game season. Also, it seems like he just doesn't like dunking anymore. This play, for example, could easily have been a highlight dunk if he wanted to do it:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x28QOlmOoIE[/youtube]

Too much twisting IMO, that should stay a layup.

There was an article in Grantland about if there's actually been an increase in ACL tears or not (doctors said yes, both in the general population and a huge increase in athletes) and they're almost all non-contact and caused by players trying to avoid contact while planting and taking off at the same time.

In that situation Rose starts off on the left side, crosses over to the right to avoid a defender, then crosses back over the left a little bit on the jump.

If it's just a simple straight line drive to the basket I think it's safe for Rose to dunk, but not on cuts or change of direction.

IMO that's why Westbrook hasn't had too many knee problems even though he's also explosive. He's explosive but he's also far, far less shifty and hurky-jerky than Rose. When he dunks, he pretty much just goes in a straight line.

You might be right in general, but on that particular play, it looked like Rose had already jumped high enough that he easily could have thrown it down, but just chose to lay it in instead. I don't think it would have any effect on his landing or anything.

[MC3]

Westbrook and Rose have different type of bodies. Rose is far much agile player than Westbrook is. Westbrook is basically force driving tank, you just want to move away from him. He will crush you and he finish it with same manner if you dont move. Straight up finish line.

Rose is agile twisting type of guy. As type of guy who moves left-right with that kind of speed ofcourse he get's more pressures on his knees and his body. Rose is just as fast as Westbrook maybe even faster. He was and still is (we hope) athletic as him. Only person who could move left to right, zig-zag moves during high speed and mentain that speed is the Rose. In comics The Flash.

[Keller61]

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/jon-gre ... er-sharper

Rose said the Bulls, who were still without Noah and Mike Dunleavy (also suffering from ankle issues), had to get angry.

“Get mad if they score on you, get mad if anything happens wrong, show some emotion and get mad,” he said.

But he also said the Bulls should appreciate their good fortune. After all, most of these players grew up in working households. This is still a game.

“We shouldn’t come in here and feel like we’re in a 9-to-5 [job],” he said. “And that’s no disrespect to people who got 9-to-5s, but when you play a sport for a living, you shouldn’t have that feeling. You should have that joy you remember when you were young and you was out in the park. The joy of winning games and just competing, giving your all while you were on the floor. Appreciating the game.”

For one game, that pure feeling returned. Rose wants to see it continue.

“It came back,” he said. “But we’re going to see how long it can last.”

Yeah, that's a guy who only cares about selling shoes...

[DuckIII]

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/jon-greenberg/post/_/id/630/bulls-regain-edge-as-rose-shows-his-is-getting-ever-sharper

Rose said the Bulls, who were still without Noah and Mike Dunleavy (also suffering from ankle issues), had to get angry.

“Get mad if they score on you, get mad if anything happens wrong, show some emotion and get mad,” he said.

But he also said the Bulls should appreciate their good fortune. After all, most of these players grew up in working households. This is still a game.

“We shouldn’t come in here and feel like we’re in a 9-to-5 [job],” he said. “And that’s no disrespect to people who got 9-to-5s, but when you play a sport for a living, you shouldn’t have that feeling. You should have that joy you remember when you were young and you was out in the park. The joy of winning games and just competing, giving your all while you were on the floor. Appreciating the game.”

For one game, that pure feeling returned. Rose wants to see it continue.

“It came back,” he said. “But we’re going to see how long it can last.”

Yeah, that's a guy who only cares about selling shoes...

Check and mate!

[SpinninHouse]

I'm not sure we could expect much more than what we've seen from Derrick this year. I mean, he's healthy. Above every thing else, he's playing every night. Yes he's had periods of struggling on both sides of the ball but he missed two full years.

He's not going to be 2011 Derrick Rose anymore but he can still be damn good. He just won't be the third best player in the NBA anymore. To win a title I would think he'd need to be a Top-10 player come play off time. It's not very often that teams win titles with out having a top-10 player -- although the Spurs did it last year. None of their guys were top-10 players.

I just want him to stay healthy and for us to win a championship. Is that so much to ask?

What is your fixation with this Rose and the 3rd best player in the NBA thing? The difference from players 3-10 in the NBA isn't that significant if you look at his numbers recently they're close to his MVP season levels. If he plays like he did last night there isn't any difference between 11 Rose and today. Just different paths to get to the same place. Rose's numbers on the season may not reflect him being a top 10 player but if he's healthy and progressing he's as talented as almost anyone in the league.

Unfortunately you're wrong as usual. Derrick Rose, even of last night, is no where near the 2011 Rose -- his defense isn't even in the same ballpark. Furthermore, his numbers don't reflect him being a top 10 because, gasp, he's not. He's showed signs of coming around offensively but defensively he's been horrible. I've never seen such bad transition D in my entire.

It's unreasonable to expect a player who has missed 2 years with major injuries to return to being a top 10 player right away. If he stays healthy and gives maximum effort, I'm hopefully he gets close.

And for the record, the third best player in the NBA is Steph Curry -- who is significantly better than a player like Chris Bosh or Carmelo Anthony. Both those guys would be around 10.

[kyrv]

Anyone still thinking that Rose is not one of the leaders of this team? Because if so, it's due to your personal feelings about Rose.

Anyone still thinking that Rose is the sole team leader as he was previously? Because if so, it's due to your peresonal feelings about Rose.

Noone on the Bulls holds a grudge or any negative feelings towards Rose for the length of his recoveries. The fans hold that sentiment. The players sympathise with him and they saw every day how much work he put in to come back.

Utter made up BS. Even if it were true, which common sense would lead one to believe it isn't, there is absolutely no way that *you* would know. Probably due to your personal feelings about Rose.

If you don't think his teammates didn't prefer he play two years ago in the playoffs, if not last season, you are mistaken. They said as much.