It's time to trade Gibson

[Rerisen]

The truth is that Gasol and Noah, while both very good players, are overrated.

That's part of the problem actually, the myth of how dominant our Frontcourt would be this year to justify it and its not happening.

It's not a reason to keep extra 'good' but not elite players at their position around. Because playing them or benching them, you are just shuffling deck chairs, your talent on floor stays about the same while eating 4 roster slots and lots of money. You might as well just pick the 3 you like best, because its very similar impact to having all 4. Not efficient while you have a much greater hole and worse players (including Kirk) manning your 3rd wing position.

[Rerisen]

The Bulls best bet for keeping this roster together is try to get another vet wing in here using Snell, picks and whatever parts you have. Corey Brewer or whatever, then augment it by playing Mirotic 5-7 minutes a night at Small Forward.

Even that is a reach to get the job done, but it might have a chance.

But if we aren't even trying to do those things, kind of just kicking the can down the road, or holding our hands over our eyes and pretending not to see something pretty obvious. We did that with Bogans in 2011 and it came back to bite us.

[transplant]

As to Noah knees, or any of our bigs health issues, are they there, yes, but do you think the Bulls can win a title if Noah or Gasol can't go in the playoffs? I don't.

Ahh, but I suspect that the Bulls feel differently. Gibson makes a somewhat limited Noah and an older Gasol workable.

Or you could have Jeff Green to fill a few minutes of SF time that Dunleavy and Butler can't handle.

The Bulls are dreamers then my friend. A starting 5 of Rose/Butler/MikeD/Taj/Gasol isn't doing the trick. Especially when foul trouble will quickly turn that into Rose/Kirk/Snell/Niko/Taj. That WILL happen in a competitive 7 game series at least once.

To add though, I feel like last night was Thib's white flag of sorts with the wings. Rose was out and Thibs made his way all the way down to Moore. That's very unsual for Thibs to search for an answer in that way. What was once a seemingly malleable roster has become a little more rigid due to the poor play of our back up wings and the relying heavily on older limited guys like Kirk and Mike.

Again, I like this team a lot as is, but there is definitely something funky with the wing rotation. It's just...unstable.

Maybe you're right, but as tends to be the case, we are too close to fairly analyze these things. We underestimate our own players and overestimate the oppositions. Every team is seemingly ruined by a key injury, yet most of the better coached teams seem to survive them.

[panthermark]

The Bulls best bet for keeping this roster together is try to get another vet wing in here using Snell, picks and whatever parts you have. Then augment it, Corey Brewer, or whatever, by playing Mirotic 5-7 minute a night at Small Forward.

If we aren't even trying to do those things, kind of just kicking the can down the road, or holding our hands over our eyes and pretending not to see something pretty obvious. We did that with Bogans in 2011 and it came back to bite us.

+100000000000

Given our injury history, and the way Thibs may or may not run players into ground....we basically need 4 bigs to get through the season...even if there will be some waste at that spot come the post season (although it does protect us from foul trouble).

So....it goes back to the wing thread. How do we get one without moving any of the guys who play....(and knowing McD is probably off the list as well).

I know he does not have play-off experience...but would anyone give up Snell, Moore and the King's pick for Ben McLemore? He is more SG than SF...but he is a name I'm throwing out there given his salary.

[Mech Engineer]

So we really need to consider the on-court fit of adding a high volume player like Green or Martin, as opposed to simply saying "Yeah we need another wing".

I do agree we should get one more wing. But I'd say we should get a backup wing defender more so than we should prioritize upgrading the starting lineup to add a new scorer.

This is what the Bulls need. Again, what the Bulls need is easier to get because of Jimmy's progress. The equation thrown around in this thread is outdated.

McDermott and Snell's expected production by Thibs (not their fans) has to be replaced. And, that's not even 100% because realistically McDermott will give some percentage (who knows if it is 20 or 80% of expectations).

These trade a big to probably get two quality players(even if one is supposedly a starter) is not happening especially considering the mid-season fit, quality, need and necessity.
That's a bad way to build a contender.

Yeah, I agree you need insurance for Jimmy /MDJ than what they have. They just don't need that low deductible insurance like they need for the bigs.

[Rerisen]

If we were willing to throw McDermott in the trade package, your return of a contributor would have a much bigger chance of being met, while keeping all bigs.

Not because McDermott is a destined bust, but just because he looks very unlikely to play the role it seems the FO *expected*, even counted on him, to provide this season.

After his 6-8 week injury, he will only have about 20-25 games till the end of the year to figure it all out. Highly unlikely seeing as how he's almost certain to come back initially to a super low minute role based on his previous play. And his return will carry past the deadline, meaning if you waited on him to perform and he fails, its too late to fix the team.

Would anyone else actually engage trading him? Or this is just all one big academic fallen in love with our team as is merry-go-round.

[Mech Engineer]

If we were willing to throw McDermott in the trade package, your return of a contributor would have a much bigger chance of being met, while, keeping all bigs.

Not because McDermott is a destined bust, but just because he looks very unlikely to play the role it seems the FO *expected*, even counted on him, to provide this season.

After his 6-8 week injury, he will only have about 20-25 games till the end of the year to figure it all out. Highly unlikely seeing as how he's almost certain to come back initially to a super low minute role based on his previous play.

Would anyone else actually engage trading him? Or this is just all one big academic fallen in love with our team as is merry-go-round.

You know that's just not even academic but more of a fantasy.

[Rerisen]

If we were willing to throw McDermott in the trade package, your return of a contributor would have a much bigger chance of being met, while, keeping all bigs.

Not because McDermott is a destined bust, but just because he looks very unlikely to play the role it seems the FO *expected*, even counted on him, to provide this season.

After his 6-8 week injury, he will only have about 20-25 games till the end of the year to figure it all out. Highly unlikely seeing as how he's almost certain to come back initially to a super low minute role based on his previous play.

Would anyone else actually engage trading him? Or this is just all one big academic fallen in love with our team as is merry-go-round.

You know that's just not even academic but more of a fantasy.

The whole board is a GM fantasy. Just because 9 of 10 posters here might agree to trade Taj or whoever, doesn't mean its any more likely to happen than it otherwise would, than talking about trading Doug. And I don't know why it should be academic even from arguing from the FO perspective.

Doug McDermott was supposed to be the 3rd wing, it looks pretty evident he is increasingly unlikely to produce in the manner GarPax assumed and expected. So why wouldn't their priorities change for a win now team?

The Bulls tried to get cute this summer in simultaneously playing the present and long-term game, and so far, their hedge is showing all too obviously in hurting the team's depth and balance.

The guy they thought was the future project and would be eased in developing behind 3 vet bigs is the one looking ready right now, and the guy they assumed could immediately step in to a needed role, that any other team would get a proven veteran for, fell on his face to this point. Then got hurt.

Gritting our teeth and doubling down is looking more and more dubious. Some time is left, but the clock is ticking.

[panthermark]

I won't put McD in any trades mostly because I know the FO would not move him after giving up so much for him. Plus his value can't get any lower right now. With that said...I would trade him.

Speaking of trades that won't happen...

This is a player that I dislike....BUT.....something to think about (that won't happen)

Swaggy P and Ed Davis
for
Mirotic

Now that I think about it....nope. I hate Swaggy P.....

[Mech Engineer]

If we were willing to throw McDermott in the trade package, your return of a contributor would have a much bigger chance of being met, while, keeping all bigs.

Not because McDermott is a destined bust, but just because he looks very unlikely to play the role it seems the FO *expected*, even counted on him, to provide this season.

After his 6-8 week injury, he will only have about 20-25 games till the end of the year to figure it all out. Highly unlikely seeing as how he's almost certain to come back initially to a super low minute role based on his previous play.

Would anyone else actually engage trading him? Or this is just all one big academic fallen in love with our team as is merry-go-round.

You know that's just not even academic but more of a fantasy.

The whole board is a GM fantasy. Just because 9 of 10 posters here might agree to trade Taj or whoever, doesn't mean its any more likely to happen than it otherwise would, than talking about trading Doug. And I don't know why it should be academic even from arguing from the FO perspective.

Doug McDermott was supposed to be the 3rd wing, it looks pretty evident he is increasingly unlikely to produce in the manner GarPax assumed and expected. So why wouldn't their priorities change for a win now team?

The Bulls tried to get cute in simultaneously playing the present and long-term game, and so far, their hedge is showing all too obviously in hurting the team's depth and balance.

Speaking of fantasy and reality mixing, unless the Bulls are getting a top 20-25 player.....the Bulls FO are not disturbing the rotation guys. Other than the plans going wrong due to injuries or bad teams, the Bulls look for trades of end of rotation guys.

McDermott and Mirotic are the last pieces other than Derrick to be in realistic trade conversations.

[panthermark]

Our "realistic" trade options are basically Snell, Moore, and Cam-Bair....

[Rerisen]

McDermott and Mirotic are the last pieces other than Derrick to be in realistic trade conversations.

My point must have went by you. It's still worth articulating one's best case roster build, so if you end up supporting a lesser evil, yet realistic thing that fails, one can say, well should have done X instead of Y with credibility intact.

Other words, for the record, I'd try to trade McDermott in a package before Taj or Mirotic. It might actually get a decent backup wing that could do the job we need and give us the best chance this year. Heck, maybe you could get Martin if Minny blows it up. That guy already knows how to shoot in the NBA and probably won't have any problem doing it for the next 3 years. Unfortunately, no the FO is probably not bold enough to do that.

BTW, I wouldn't be so sure of knowing who the Bulls will trade or not either, no one thought Deng was going anywhere last year.

[RayClayMatthews]

if taj goes anywhere, i hope its Brooklyn, so he can play at home. hes a real NY kinda guy and I think can flourish after they trade some of those awful pieces they have. He could easily start over Garnett and be a nice complement to Lopez who is weak on the boards etc (if they dont trade him)

Taj isn't even that great on the boards, Niko's better

hes a hell of a lot better on the defensive side of the ball overall than lopez, that includes rebounding.

[Red Larrivee]

Based on the way they have played, I would pair Taj with Pau before Noah. (Noah is my guy, but he probably makes more sense to trade than Taj...and I don't want to trade Noah).

Yes, regardless, there will be two good big men riding pine...but it could be Noah and Mirotic. In all honesty, if we were to make a trade for a wing while trying to contend this year, Mirotic would be the logical one to go. A rebuilding team would LOVE him, and he actually has decent trade salary ($5.3M). I'm not saying we SHOULD trade him, I'm just saying that he makes the most sense if we are trying to win it all THIS year.

I would guess that Taj has more trade value than Mirotic, which would benefit the team more. But there's no way Noah is riding pine in the playoffs this year unless Thibodeau wants to be looking for a job in the summer. The man is the reigning DPOY.

[Rerisen]

Rumors: Minnesota ready to trade veterans Kevin Martin, Corey Brewer and Thaddeus Young

[Mech Engineer]

McDermott and Mirotic are the last pieces other than Derrick to be in realistic trade conversations.

My point must have went by you. It's still worth articulating one's best case roster build, so if you end up supporting a lesser evil, yet realistic thing that fails, one can say, well should have done X instead of Y with credibility intact.

Other words, for the record, I'd try to trade McDermott in a package before Taj or Mirotic. It might actually get a decent backup wing that could do the job we need and give us the best chance this year. Heck, maybe you could get Martin if Minny blows it up. That guy already knows how to shoot in the NBA and probably won't have any problem doing it for the next 3 years. Unfortunately, no the FO is probably not bold enough to do that.

BTW, I wouldn't be so sure of knowing who the Bulls will trade or not either, no one thought Deng was going anywhere last year.

Well...it is RealGM forum not fantasyGM

Well, whether one likes Love or not....that was off-season and he was thought to be a top 20 player and would be playing the same position.

[dougthonus]

These are two guys that I feel we can really get and it's time to trade the guy who can land them.

Taj Gibson is a much better basketball player than these two guys.
Player, PER this season, PER career
Gibson, 17.2, 15.1
Green, 16.2, 13.3
Barnes 14.7, 11.1

Gibson is also trivially the best defender of the three amongst impact not well categorized by PER.

Gibson also plays the more scarce position which means his positional value is higher.

Two of the three other Bulls big men have not stayed healthy either, and the Bulls do not have anyone to step into the 4th big man role who could play 30 minutes if you have an injury.

I'm not entirely opposed to trading Gibson, but you absolutely need to get something better back than Jeff Green or Harrison Barnes, and you need to get a credible backup big in the deal too.

[Chi town]

Taj is going nowhere unless we get a Reggie Jackson level player on a deal that is similar to Taj's... which means no dice. Not happening. Taj, Snell, Kings Pick, CLE swap.

[kingkirk]

Rumors: Minnesota ready to trade veterans Kevin Martin, Corey Brewer and Thaddeus Young

So why would they want another veteran like Taj Gibson?

[Rerisen]

Rumors: Minnesota ready to trade veterans Kevin Martin, Corey Brewer and Thaddeus Young

So why would they want another veteran like Taj Gibson?

They wouldn't. They liked McDermott at the draft.