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Thibs Losing the Team (Pax blasts Van Gundy p11)

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Re: Thibs Losing the Team Discussion 

Post#121 » by ATRAIN53 » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:05 pm

2Chainz wrote:
ATRAIN53 wrote:The problem with all this public whining and campaigning for less practice-

If they DON'T win a title - then we can look back at this situation and say 'You guys didn't put in the work'

I don't hear ATL and GSW complaining about needing "time off" right now........


ATL and GS haven't won anything but a bunch of regular season games.


If the season ended today they have both won Home Court and that is huge for any potential game 7's in the playoffs.

remember ATL took #1 seed IND to a game 7 in the 1st round last year and lost on the road.....
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Re: Thibs Losing the Team Discussion 

Post#122 » by TankOverlord » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:10 pm

SpinninHouse wrote:
TankOverlord wrote:
SpinninHouse wrote:
Again, I'm not sure how somebody who has actually watched the games could formulate this opinion. We got absolutely obliterated at home to an atrocious Brooklyn team. We could absolutely obliterated at home to an atrocious Utah team. We got absolutely obliterated at home to an atrocious Orlando team.

Those losses are not "normal ups and downs." They are losses in which we failed to even compete at home to some of the league's worst teams. Losing games is one thing but losing them in the fashion we did -- in which we failed to even compete -- it's very alarming.

In the game threads you won't see posters saying "oh it's just normal ups and downs" because people who watch the games see it's not normal to lose the way we are losing. Its interesting to me because the only posts I read like this are not in game threads when people are actually watching.


Didn't know the game threads are gospel.. I've watched virtually every Bulls game for the last 25 years, long before any game thread existed!

I hope your boss gives you more leeway than our Bulls are being given in here.


Let me ask you this: Do you honestly feel in your heart of hearts that uncompetitive blow out losses at home to three of the NBA's worst teams are part of the normal ups and downs of a championship team?


Of course. Those 3 losses don't change our title equity whatsoever. So long as we make the playoffs, all of these games combine for a grand total of 0% of the championship.

This isn't even one standard deviation. It's well within the parameters of noise in a given system. One year the MJ Bulls lost to the expansion Raptors twice!
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Re: Thibs Losing the Team Discussion 

Post#123 » by SpinninHouse » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:22 pm

TankOverlord wrote:
SpinninHouse wrote:
TankOverlord wrote:
Didn't know the game threads are gospel.. I've watched virtually every Bulls game for the last 25 years, long before any game thread existed!

I hope your boss gives you more leeway than our Bulls are being given in here.


Let me ask you this: Do you honestly feel in your heart of hearts that uncompetitive blow out losses at home to three of the NBA's worst teams are part of the normal ups and downs of a championship team?


Of course. Those 3 losses don't change our title equity whatsoever. So long as we make the playoffs, all of these games combine for a grand total of 0% of the championship.

This isn't even one standard deviation. It's well within the parameters of noise in a given system. One year the MJ Bulls lost to the expansion Raptors twice!


I respectfully disagree but I appreciate your responses. And I applaud you for watching nearly ever game for 25 years. I haven't missed many either.
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Re: Thibs Losing the Team Discussion 

Post#124 » by ingvald » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:29 pm

ATRAIN53 wrote:
2Chainz wrote:
ATRAIN53 wrote:The problem with all this public whining and campaigning for less practice-

If they DON'T win a title - then we can look back at this situation and say 'You guys didn't put in the work'

I don't hear ATL and GSW complaining about needing "time off" right now........


ATL and GS haven't won anything but a bunch of regular season games.


If the season ended today they have both won Home Court and that is huge for any potential game 7's in the playoffs.

remember ATL took #1 seed IND to a game 7 in the 1st round last year and lost on the road.....


...without Horford.
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Re: Thibs Losing the Team Discussion 

Post#125 » by TankOverlord » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:32 pm

SpinninHouse wrote:
TankOverlord wrote:
SpinninHouse wrote:
Let me ask you this: Do you honestly feel in your heart of hearts that uncompetitive blow out losses at home to three of the NBA's worst teams are part of the normal ups and downs of a championship team?


Of course. Those 3 losses don't change our title equity whatsoever. So long as we make the playoffs, all of these games combine for a grand total of 0% of the championship.

This isn't even one standard deviation. It's well within the parameters of noise in a given system. One year the MJ Bulls lost to the expansion Raptors twice!


I respectfully disagree but I appreciate your responses. And I applaud you for watching nearly ever game for 25 years. I haven't missed many either.


This is the kind of discourse I'm here for. Thank you and I applaud your viewing habits as well as your civility!

I understand where you're coming from, but the problem is how one quantifies these things. That's why I prefer a statistical approach as it's less prone to error or bias.

Vegas sets their odds using math, not emotion. While the Bulls odds have come down during this stretch, they haven't moved much. Still the 4th favorite to win which is a much more objective view.
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Re: Thibs Losing the Team Discussion 

Post#126 » by AirP. » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:38 pm

TankOverlord wrote:Of course. Those 3 losses don't change our title equity whatsoever. So long as we make the playoffs, all of these games combine for a grand total of 0% of the championship.

This isn't even one standard deviation. It's well within the parameters of noise in a given system. One year the MJ Bulls lost to the expansion Raptors twice!


No... they lost to them once to the expansion Raptor's team and that loss was by 1 point, the next game they beat a team that got into the 2nd round of the playoffs(Atlanta) by 31 points.

Teams can go into losing streaks, but not many championship teams look like they don't care in a string of games, actually I don't really remember any doing that.
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Re: Thibs Losing the Team Discussion 

Post#127 » by TankOverlord » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:46 pm

AirP. wrote:
TankOverlord wrote:Of course. Those 3 losses don't change our title equity whatsoever. So long as we make the playoffs, all of these games combine for a grand total of 0% of the championship.

This isn't even one standard deviation. It's well within the parameters of noise in a given system. One year the MJ Bulls lost to the expansion Raptors twice!


No... they lost to them once to the expansion Raptor's team and that loss was by 1 point, the next game they beat a team that got into the 2nd round of the playoffs(Atlanta) by 31 points.

Teams can go into losing streaks, but not many championship teams look like they don't care in a string of games, actually I don't really remember any doing that.


Thanks for the correction as I had that wrong. They did however only beat them by 3 in another game that season as well as lose to them again the following year.
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Re: Thibs Losing the Team Discussion 

Post#128 » by Mobby » Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:52 pm

musiqsoulchild wrote:In this one case, I think the team is lost.

The coach is HOF caliber in my humble opinion. There are some members on the team who want to get into the HOF without putting in the work.


Agreed.

Thibs is god-tier.
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Re: Thibs Losing the Team Discussion 

Post#129 » by Rerisen » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:12 am

Gar with some typical fire dousing.

GM dismisses report that Thibodeau is on hot seat

Tom Thibodeau either doesn’t burn easily or actually doesn’t put much stock into several reports that had the Bulls coach on the “hot seat’’ in the midst of a 2-6 losing streak.

It could be both.

Thibodeau wasted very little time – or words – dwelling on the “hot seat’’ topic following the Wednesday practice, saying “Could care less, I could,’’ when asked for a reaction of the rumors.

His front office was equally dismissive.

“No,’’ general manager Gar Forman said in a text, when asked if there had been discussions about Thibodeau’s job security. “It’s not a story.’’

It actually was, but one that might not have a lot of legs as far as the regular season is concerned. After the season? That’s a different chapter, but the idea that the Bulls would make a coaching change if the spiral downward continued? Highly unlikely.

“I think it’s important that we all are in this together, that we share that,’’ veteran big man Pau Gasol said, when asked about his coach feeling the heat. “I think it’s a bad sign when there’s cracks, when people start pointing fingers, start talking negatively about any individual that is part of the group, whether it’s a coach or a player. I think that shows, again, weakness and shows disruption. So right now, what we’re showing is togetherness and that’s what we want to continue to show as a team.’’ ...


http://chicago.suntimes.com/basketball/ ... u-hot-seat
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Re: Thibs Losing the Team Discussion 

Post#130 » by BeatDaCavs420 » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:19 am

So both Thibs and Gar said less than 10 words about this lol
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Re: Thibs Losing the Team Discussion 

Post#131 » by TankOverlord » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:29 am

BeatDaHeat420 wrote:So both Thibs and Gar said less than 10 words about this lol


Because it doesn't merit any more than that. Total waste of time, media blowhards looking for exposure.
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Re: Thibs Losing the Team Discussion 

Post#132 » by HomoSapien » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:41 am

Well, glad it's been dismissed.
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Re: Thibs Losing the Team Discussion 

Post#133 » by kdapiton » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:47 am

And even if there's a "hot seat" which I doubt, Thibs is right to not give a rat's ass. He would get another job in the league overnight.

Regardless, I'm sure he's still very much committed to righting the ship and doing his job.
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Re: Thibs Losing the Team Discussion 

Post#134 » by musiqsoulchild » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:51 am

Glad we signed BG and Asik as well.
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Re: Thibs Losing the Team Discussion 

Post#135 » by Mech Engineer » Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:05 am

kdapiton wrote:And even if there's a "hot seat" which I doubt, Thibs is right to not give a rat's ass. He would get another job in the league overnight.

Regardless, I'm sure he's still very much committed to righting the ship and doing his job.


Yeah. ..it's different from the times when he was an assistant coach. He is a proven head coach now and that will never go away. He will have his pick of jobs.

The Bulls FO do not have a great reputation regarding their relationships with their head coaches. Hope they ride this out.

And, the message if old should be for Noah, Tsj and Derrick. These are the only guys who have heard the message for a long time. Derrick after his injuries is in no state to get into these kind of coach issues while Joakim and Taj are like Thibs's right hand men.
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Re: Thibs Losing the Team Discussion 

Post#136 » by Red Larrivee » Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:17 am

SpinninHouse wrote:Again, I'm not sure how somebody who has actually watched the games could formulate this opinion. We got absolutely obliterated at home to an atrocious Brooklyn team. We could absolutely obliterated at home to an atrocious Utah team. We got absolutely obliterated at home to an atrocious Orlando team.

Those losses are not "normal ups and downs." They are losses in which we failed to even compete at home to some of the league's worst teams. Losing games is one thing but losing them in the fashion we did -- in which we failed to even compete -- it's very alarming.

In the game threads you won't see posters saying "oh it's just normal ups and downs" because people who watch the games see it's not normal to lose the way we are losing. Its interesting to me because the only posts I read like this are not in game threads when people are actually watching.


As someone who's played the "regular season doesn't really matter" card for a while, I think there's a balance to it.

There's nothing positive about losing to bad teams especially when it looks like your energy level is set on chill. You shouldn't ignore the habits in those losses and in our case, those habits need to be improved going into the postseason.

Simultaneously, winning or losing those games doesn't determine if the Bulls will make it out of the Eastern Conference. These games are just not remotely similar to a playoff series. The 2010-11 Bulls beat everyone they were supposed to in the regular season and played with the multiple efforts and passion that people want this team to display.

Then in the first round that team struggled with Indiana. Every game was decided by 6 points or less except the blowout elimination game. The Atlanta series was more of a reminder of the regular season team and we didn't really struggle much against Atlanta. The Miami series was...yeah, but hey we won 62 games!

I think someone said that these losses technically do matter, since it means the Bulls won't have homecourt throughout the Eastern Conference. But I'm of the belief that if you're a talented and pretty good team, then you will win regardless of the location or team.

I won't talk about this team like they're Jordan's Bulls, Shaq's Lakers, LeBron's Heat, where they've earned the benefit of the doubt to play their best ball when it matters. However, I still get the vibe that this team can play their best ball when it matters. It's not like we haven't seen them do it. They started the season insanely hot. And when they do, I don't think there's anyone short of Cleveland who can stop them. Washington also scares me for some reason too.
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Re: Thibs Losing the Team Discussion 

Post#137 » by kodo » Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:18 am

Mech Engineer wrote:The Bulls FO do not have a great reputation regarding their relationships with their head coaches. Hope they ride this out.


The FO isn't in total control when it comes to Thibs. The week he was hired I read in the Sun Times JR went above both Pax & Gar and hired Thibs directly. If you remember it happened lightning fast after the NO offer, I've never seen the Bulls FO decide that quickly. They interviewed him, and we got the news within days he was hired.

JR also seemed to confirm this in his interview where he was boasting about how Obama's people recommended Thibs to him, and so he hired him.

Pax & Gar are about as high as you can be in the org but Thibs might be someone who has the ownership on his side.
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Re: Thibs Losing the Team Discussion 

Post#138 » by Leslie Forman » Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:01 am

kodo wrote:JR also seemed to confirm this in his interview where he was boasting about how Obama's people recommended Thibs to him, and so he hired him.

It was Arne Duncan, who has known Thibs for a long time.

There was a NY Times piece about Thibs a while back that had a lot of good background on him. He basically makes Jim Harbaugh seem laid back. It's probably why he never got a head coach job for so long.
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Re: Thibs Losing the Team Discussion 

Post#139 » by kingkirk » Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:40 am

2Chainz wrote:ATL and GS haven't won anything but a bunch of regular season games.


This would be a solid argument if the Bulls had done anything of note. Until then, this team has proven just as much as those teams be try to belittle to prop ours up, if not less.
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Re: Thibs Losing the Team Discussion 

Post#140 » by rtblues » Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:50 am

We may not like everything about Thibs and his methods, substitutions, rotations, etc., but, wow, what a croc! If they were stupid enough to give up on and lose a top 5 coach (In anyone's ranking, probably more like top 3) he would be in Cleveland replacing Blatt in a second. Then who do they get? A guy who never coached in the league before? Does anyone really believe that a guy like Hoiberg can come in and turn it all around? That's delusional.

I know that in Sports, they don't fire the whole team, but rather the coach. In this case, management should opt for getting rid
of the dead-weight, high-maintenance losers and complainers on this team, and go with guys who want to be there and play hard, and guys that understand that they have been given the opportunity to play for one of the best minds in the game today.

The same crap happened to George Karl and others, a cast of lazy-ass. overpaid malcontents decide the fates of erstwhile good coaches. I, for one, trust Thibs a lot more than some of the obvious disappointments on this roster. Blow it up, re-tool. This roster is simply too unathletic, this falls on Gar/Pax and their "vision".
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