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Jimmy Butler could miss 3-6 wks

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Re: Jimmy Butler could miss 3-6 wks 

Post#441 » by the ultimates » Tue Mar 3, 2015 2:40 am

RastaBull wrote:
the ultimates wrote:Let's say McDermott gets proper rotation minutes and plays solid like Snell. That becomes a huge indictment on Thibs for me. That would be four players in during his tenure ( Butler, Snell, Mirotic, Mcdermott) who barely got any minutes until prolonged injuries. Butler we know emerged when Deng got injured. Snell has looked fine after not having to look over his shoulder for the quick Thibs hook. Mirotic when given minutes has his natural position has been a match up nightmare for the opposition.


I see your perspective, and it's a very fair one. (I'm a Thibs supporter, but I have gotten very very frustrated many many times throughout this season)

But to play Devil's Advocate for a second, I think an equally fair perspective would be to consider Thibs successful by holding those young players back, making them earn their burn in practice, allowing nothing to come easy. When he's given them brief spots, and they've faltered, he's taken them off the court. BUT, we don't see what happens in practice...my guts tells me they're not carrying water bottles, but more than likely being run like crazy against All-Star level talent in the like of Rose, Noah, Deng, Gasol, Butler, etc.

And if McDermott comes out and balls in this stretch, I think it could just as well be reflective of Thibs preventing him from possibly destroying his confidence on the court, and waiting to build up a skill set behind the curtain until an opportune moment (like what I believed has happened in both circumstances of Butler and Snell).

As much as Thibs would get hounded if McDermott succeeded in this stretch...he would not be equally credited if McDermott fell flat.


You're right we don't see practice but Snell didn't see his minutes increase from practice though. I could see it if the situation where he had gradually been getting more minutes before the injuries hit.
Losing to get high draft picks and hoping they turn into franchise players is not some next level, genius move. That's what teams want to happen in any rebuild/tank or whatever you want to market it as.
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Re: Jimmy Butler could miss 3-6 wks 

Post#442 » by Red Larrivee » Tue Mar 3, 2015 2:54 am

GuardianEnzo wrote:I'm baffled as to why so many people think this means Doug is going to play now, based on Thibs' track record. KCJ - who's nothing if not a mouthpiece - said today "Thibs doesn't sound inclined to use McDermott".

If Dunleavy or Snell were to go down too, I think then Thibs would legitimately have no choice but to give Doug a few minutes. Short of that I don't see it happening.


Typical logic suggests McDermott will play and play a lot. But Thibodeau has been putting E'Twan **** Moore in over him. That's the problem. The Bulls traded a bag of draft picks to get this guy and the head coach won't even play him when the team is injury-depleted.
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Re: Jimmy Butler could miss 3-6 wks 

Post#443 » by Indomitable » Tue Mar 3, 2015 2:55 am

dumbell78 wrote:Seriously my wife picked a perfect time to have our baby. I will be so busy that I hopefully don't see much basketball the next month.

Unbelievable the voodoo MJ put on this organization.

Congrats
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Re: Jimmy Butler could miss 3-6 wks 

Post#444 » by JordansBulls » Tue Mar 3, 2015 2:56 am

DuckIII wrote:
JordansBulls wrote:This would be a good time to pick up Tmac.


Is there ever a bad time? He's still better than 1996 Pippen!

Yes Tmac from 2001 to 2008 was better than 1996 Pippen.
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Re: Jimmy Butler could miss 3-6 wks 

Post#445 » by Mech Engineer » Tue Mar 3, 2015 3:07 am

Thibs has rarely criticized his players in public even when they are bad. He has constantly praised Mirotic and McDermott. The only player he has criticized even in his 2nd year was Snell.

It shows he is paying attention to every detail. His success is dependent on their success. It is just crazy how people go to extremes to push their agenda.
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Re: Jimmy Butler could miss 3-6 wks 

Post#446 » by Indomitable » Tue Mar 3, 2015 3:11 am

Rerisen wrote:
Ralphb07 wrote:
Rerisen wrote:So a new coach comes in, does the FO immediately and tyrannically impose minute limits on the new coach too?

Or do they let that coach run the team of his own accord first and only interfere is he isn't managing to their desires?


They probably don't get a coach who is so demanding on their players it wouldn't matter. Nick said today that Thibs shoot arounds day of game are like practices.


Interesting. There is always a contingent around here that argues that Thibs is really a teddy bear behind the scenes, and isn't that hard on the guys.

Never bought it.

It was just not realistic
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Re: Jimmy Butler could miss 3-6 wks 

Post#447 » by HomoSapien » Tue Mar 3, 2015 3:13 am

Guys, the good news is that we're only five more injuries away from McDermott playing five minutes a game.
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Re: Jimmy Butler could miss 3-6 wks 

Post#448 » by mmmmmbeeer » Tue Mar 3, 2015 3:14 am

Mech Engineer wrote:Thibs has rarely criticized his players in public even when they are bad. He has constantly praised Mirotic and McDermott. The only player he has criticized even in his 2nd year has Snell.

It shows he is very much paying attention to every detail. His success is dependent on their success. It is just crazy how people go to extremes to push their agenda.


So, from the perspective of the franchise over the next 4-6 weeks, you think it's most beneficial to play Kirk Hinrich heavy minutes at the 1 and 2 instead of allowing Moore to play the primary backup PG and share time with Snell at the 2, and let McDermott take over as Dunleavy's backup?

What good does it do this franchise to play Kirk Hinrich? It doesn't help us win games. It doesn't help us learn how our young guys are developing. So what, exactly, is the advantage? I fail to see one.
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Re: Jimmy Butler could miss 3-6 wks 

Post#449 » by WindyCityBorn » Tue Mar 3, 2015 3:17 am

Time to see lots of Dougie!

Let's make the best of a bad situation.

This team is not going to win regardless so point in playing garbage vets for 35 minutes over your lottery pick.
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Re: Jimmy Butler could miss 3-6 wks 

Post#450 » by dumbell78 » Tue Mar 3, 2015 3:19 am

Indomitable wrote:
dumbell78 wrote:Seriously my wife picked a perfect time to have our baby. I will be so busy that I hopefully don't see much basketball the next month.

Unbelievable the voodoo MJ put on this organization.

Congrats


Thank you kind sir!
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Re: Jimmy Butler could miss 3-6 wks 

Post#451 » by Mech Engineer » Tue Mar 3, 2015 4:18 am

mmmmmbeeer wrote:
Mech Engineer wrote:Thibs has rarely criticized his players in public even when they are bad. He has constantly praised Mirotic and McDermott. The only player he has criticized even in his 2nd year has Snell.

It shows he is very much paying attention to every detail. His success is dependent on their success. It is just crazy how people go to extremes to push their agenda.


So, from the perspective of the franchise over the next 4-6 weeks, you think it's most beneficial to play Kirk Hinrich heavy minutes at the 1 and 2 instead of allowing Moore to play the primary backup PG and share time with Snell at the 2, and let McDermott take over as Dunleavy's backup?

What good does it do this franchise to play Kirk Hinrich? It doesn't help us win games. It doesn't help us learn how our young guys are developing. So what, exactly, is the advantage? I fail to see one.


Relax...who told Hinrich should play more. Derrick, Jimmy just got hurt. You missed the whole point.

Let Thibs figure out things on how to use his roster optimally for the next 5 weeks or so.
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Re: Jimmy Butler could miss 3-6 wks 

Post#452 » by SearsTower » Tue Mar 3, 2015 4:20 am

the ultimates wrote:Let's say McDermott gets proper rotation minutes and plays solid like Snell. That becomes a huge indictment on Thibs for me. That would be four players in during his tenure ( Butler, Snell, Mirotic, Mcdermott) who barely got any minutes until prolonged injuries. Butler we know emerged when Deng got injured. Snell has looked fine after not having to look over his shoulder for the quick Thibs hook. Mirotic when given minutes has his natural position has been a match up nightmare for the opposition.


People frequently praise Thibs for his player development and point to guys like Gibson, Butler, and now most recently Snell. You're right though. Butler was on the Tony Snell plan before injuries FORCED Thibs to play him. You're seeing something similar this year with Snell. I believe in GarPax when it comes to drafting players. It's unfortunate that it takes catastrophic injuries to teammates for these young guys to begin their careers in the NBA.
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Re: Jimmy Butler could miss 3-6 wks 

Post#453 » by WindyCityBorn » Tue Mar 3, 2015 4:31 am

Just get rid of Thibs. I'm sick of this guy. Just a try hard guy. Nothing innovative about him at all. About as rigid and predictable as a coach can be. That only works when you have dominant talent.
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Re: Jimmy Butler could miss 3-6 wks 

Post#454 » by BigUps » Tue Mar 3, 2015 4:39 am

If we fire Thibs it will be a massive mistake.
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Re: Jimmy Butler could miss 3-6 wks 

Post#455 » by the ultimates » Tue Mar 3, 2015 4:47 am

SearsTower wrote:
the ultimates wrote:Let's say McDermott gets proper rotation minutes and plays solid like Snell. That becomes a huge indictment on Thibs for me. That would be four players in during his tenure ( Butler, Snell, Mirotic, Mcdermott) who barely got any minutes until prolonged injuries. Butler we know emerged when Deng got injured. Snell has looked fine after not having to look over his shoulder for the quick Thibs hook. Mirotic when given minutes has his natural position has been a match up nightmare for the opposition.


People frequently praise Thibs for his player development and point to guys like Gibson, Butler, and now most recently Snell. You're right though. Butler was on the Tony Snell plan before injuries FORCED Thibs to play him. You're seeing something similar this year with Snell. I believe in GarPax when it comes to drafting players. It's unfortunate that it takes catastrophic injuries to teammates for these young guys to begin their careers in the NBA.


That's why it's strange people use Thibs seeing them in practice as a cop out for him. If guys aren't doing well in practice then how come when they get extended minutes because of major injuries they look like competent NBA players? If they are doing what's needed in practice why haven't they got some kind of consistent playing time before then? Now we don't see practice but we know Thibs has certain players he trusts no matter their health status or actual productiveness on the court. Other players who practice just as hard don't get that opportunity unless their is no other choice after injuries. I don't think he does it too be vindictive or prove some point to Garpax it's just he is hard headed in situations like this.
Losing to get high draft picks and hoping they turn into franchise players is not some next level, genius move. That's what teams want to happen in any rebuild/tank or whatever you want to market it as.
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Re: Jimmy Butler could miss 3-6 wks 

Post#456 » by WindyCityBorn » Tue Mar 3, 2015 5:01 am

BigUps wrote:If we fire Thibs it will be a massive mistake.


Not really. I look forward to it. Can't wait to see a wide open offense with Niko, Snell and Doug playing major roles.

Taj gone and Kirk permanently benched.
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Re: Jimmy Butler could miss 3-6 wks 

Post#457 » by WindyCityBorn » Tue Mar 3, 2015 5:05 am

Butler said McDermott is balling in practice. That is an indictment on Thibs that he can't get any run in real games.
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Re: Jimmy Butler could miss 3-6 wks 

Post#458 » by TimRobbins » Tue Mar 3, 2015 5:30 am

Rerisen wrote:I don't think Kirk Hinrich's minute limit had anything to do with medical. It's just they don't trust Tom with an older player. Don't see SA putting a minute limit on Duncan for Pop.

I also don't think Rose and Noah had medical reasons to sit out practices if they were just playing 35 minutes in an NBA game the night before. Their surgeries have long since healed physically.

This was more about subjective opinion concerning prevention. Which is exactly what Thibs argued in his 'not proven science' post game when he talked about no one really knows what the exact minute limit even is that is actually doing anything positive to help a player.

The FO no doubt thought Thibs contributed to these guys breaking down in the past, tried to save them by being more cautious and its really done little to help. Rose is hurt again anyway, Dunleavy got hurt for a long spell, Butler is now hurt. Taj has twisted his ankle about half a dozen more times. So much for Jen ushering in the golden age of health for this team.


I don't think we have enough data to know if the science Jen is using is valid or not. Like I said, there are also long-term health concerns, not just short-term ones.

The anecdotal evidence on Taj, Jimmy and Rose really don't say much about the science as a whole. The coach should always defer to the medical staff. There is no way Thibs should be doubting medical decisions even if he feels like it deep inside.
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Re: Jimmy Butler could miss 3-6 wks 

Post#459 » by TimRobbins » Tue Mar 3, 2015 5:45 am

GuardianEnzo wrote:I'm baffled as to why so many people think this means Doug is going to play now, based on Thibs' track record. KCJ - who's nothing if not a mouthpiece - said today "Thibs doesn't sound inclined to use McDermott".

If Dunleavy or Snell were to go down too, I think then Thibs would legitimately have no choice but to give Doug a few minutes. Short of that I don't see it happening.


The current wing rotation is Hinrich/Snell/MDJ. Doug will get minutes.
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Re: Jimmy Butler could miss 3-6 wks 

Post#460 » by maynardo » Tue Mar 3, 2015 6:08 am

WindyCityBorn wrote:Just get rid of Thibs. I'm sick of this guy. Just a try hard guy. Nothing innovative about him at all. About as rigid and predictable as a coach can be. That only works when you have dominant talent.


uhh?. You do realize most teams in the NBA right now play "Thibs defense" right?. You can obviously say bad things about him, but he changed how the NBA plays team defense. He is in fact an innovator. You could say that since most teams have copied most of that defensive system we lost the edge it used to give us, but that's about it.

As for the rest, people forget before Thibs got to Chicago this same Front Office with other coaches was usually having mediocre barely .500 teams.

These are the standings for 3 years before Thibs:

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/year/2010
http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/year/2009
http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/year/2008

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