Bold & Aggressive

Dajody10 · Post #1 » by **Dajody10** » Sat May 23, 2015 3:17 am

Before any of the gods of this message board lock the thread, this is not a trade thread or anything like that - this is a simple reality check of where the NBA is going moving forward. Based on the team LeBron is running through the east with, it's obvious he's taken that next step as an uber NBA star - we're talking top five in the history of the NBA. The team he beat the Bulls & soon to be ATL with is nothing but a group of solid role players. No Love, and Kyrie Irving at best at 50%, yet he's marching through the East like it's pee wee basketball. Make no mistake, I expect GS to beat Cleveland relatively easily, but it's beyond obvious the West is far superior to the East. But I also believe a fully healthy Cleveland team is by far the best team in the NBA, with GS coming second.

Now onto the Bulls - if you think the expected improvement of DOUG MCDERMOTT & TONY SNELL is going to push this group beyond LeBron and Cleveland, then you have a helluva lot of disappointment coming to you in the very near future. If you want to beat LeBron over the next 4-5 years, you best be making moves that clearly put us ahead of Cleveland from a roster talent perspective. IMO LeBron does have one fatal flaw, and I personally believe he is mentally weak through and through. This years Bulls and this years Hawks just don't push him to the point of cracking like Boston used to - San Antonio did, and in a sense Dallas did - but more so San Antonio. The only way to come close to replicating the SA model is A) a new offensive focused coach, and B) a roster full of offensive playmakers. I personally feel a run at Durant with our very best offer (Butler, Mirotic and picks) is the first avenue to explore. If we can't land a player of that magnitude, I would look to round out this roster with guys who can beat you offensively either shooting or off the dibble. It all starts with Noah - he is the epitome of the problem with the Bulls - we cannot have guys on the floor who are offensive liabilities because it allows LeBron the opportunity to cheat off guys and help defensively, which kills the edge for a guy like Rose. If the Bulls want to beat Cleveland, trade Noah for a wing who can score at a relatively high level in terms of shooting and creating, and sign a backup guard who can play on both ends, unlike the gimmick guys like Brooks and Augustine. We should easily be able to sign a guy like Mo Williams for the MMLE to back up Rose, but will the Bulls choose to spend beyond the tax? WE WILL NEVER beat LeBron if we're worried about the luxury tax - it's as black and white as anything you will encounter in the NBA.

LeBron has taken the next step in his evolution - it's up to the Bulls to make the aggressive moves needed to really compete, otherwise this is going to quickly turn into Jordan of the 90's in the East. Unfortunately for LeBron, I don't think he is mentally strong enough to beat teams in the west like GS and SA who have offensive weapons all over the floor.

MC3 · Post #2 » by **MC3** » Sat May 23, 2015 3:19 am

Just stop....

Rili67 · Post #3 » by **Rili67** » Sat May 23, 2015 3:25 am

MC3 wrote:Just stop....

Why? He's right... we either need to get really aggressive in trades, or we need to consider blowing it up.

Watching lebron do what he's doing with this team full of scrubs is almost depressing (for us).

We need big moves for better or worse.

Post #4 » by **GimmeDat** » Sat May 23, 2015 3:26 am

LeBron's an all time great, and he's obviously the crux of this Cavs team, but he's still starting to decline ever so slightly and the Cavs team we versed was more than beatable.

Jimmy held LeBron down really well for most of the series, I believe he shot 42%, the Bulls just played pretty horridly in general for most of the series, especially the last few games, and Atlanta's getting exposed in the playoffs like many presumed they would (not to say they're not a very good team).

No one's saying the development of McDermott/Snell/Mirotic is going to make us title favourites, but rather a combination of their development, a change in the coaching and susbequent re-invigoration of the playing group, and the right moves to consolidate the roster can potentially put is in a very competitive position going forward.

Dajody10 · Post #5 » by **Dajody10** » Sat May 23, 2015 3:27 am

MC3 wrote:Just stop....

It's fine if you don't want to face reality. You'll probably be left wondering why we're in this same situation next summer if we go into next season with this same roster.

You = :banghead:

MC3 · Post #6 » by **MC3** » Sat May 23, 2015 3:30 am

Rili67 wrote:
MC3 wrote:Just stop....

Why? He's right... we either need to get really aggressive in trades, or we need to consider blowing it up.

Watching lebron do what he's doing with this team full of scrubs is almost depressing (for us).

We need big moves for better or worse.

Nobody will give us good players for nothing. And we have what we have. Thibs made rookies and 2nd year player busts. So no chance you get good players in return for them. Noah, Taj dont have anymore value they had. Rose is not tradeable. Mirotic is only piece who can we move and Butler is too good for anything you can get.
Best move we can make is develop our youth and see what we got. If youth develops and makes good mix with core we have. We have solid team to move forward and maybe even go for championship. In meantime Noah will come off the contract, Gasol will come off the contract, Hinrich and then you can move on and make trades. And make team better in the FA.

MC3 · Post #7 » by **MC3** » Sat May 23, 2015 3:32 am

I am telling him to stop because he is being silly just like many rest of you.

Dajody10 · Post #8 » by **Dajody10** » Sat May 23, 2015 3:33 am

GimmeDat wrote:LeBron's an all time great, and he's obviously the crux of this Cavs team, but he's still starting to decline ever so slightly and the Cavs team we versed was more than beatable.

Jimmy held LeBron down really well for most of the series, I believe he shot 42%, the Bulls just played pretty horridly in general for most of the series, especially the last few games, and Atlanta's getting exposed in the playoffs like many presumed they would (not to say they're not a very good team).

No one's saying the development of McDermott/Snell/Mirotic is going to make us title favourites, but rather a combination of their development, a change in the coaching and susbequent re-invigoration of the playing group, and the right moves to consolidate the roster can potentially put is in a very competitive position going forward.

That's a good start, but it's not enough. We need another scoring wing - I said it all last year, I said it in 2010 with Bogans....we need more, it's really very simple. We have four bigs, and we can;t find enough minutes for any of them - and we're pathetic on the wing, yet we're not willing to connect the dots and trade one for the other? It's a basic as you'll find in the NBA - TRADE ONE OF OUR BIGS FOR A SCORING WING, PERIOD.

Dajody10 · Post #9 » by **Dajody10** » Sat May 23, 2015 3:36 am

MC3 wrote:I am telling him to stop because he is being silly just like many rest of you.

You just have the typical losers mentality. Cleveland got Mozgov, Smith and Shumpert for two future first round picks.....and I'm to believe we can't improve the roster? Not a chance, keep living in fantasy land - the Bulls don't WANT to win, they are content collecting checks and racking in cash. They're more than happy competing with no chance to win a title - and the SAD part is, half the fans are ALSO content with this strategy! UNREAL

MC3 · Post #10 » by **MC3** » Sat May 23, 2015 3:39 am

Dajody10 wrote:
MC3 wrote:I am telling him to stop because he is being silly just like many rest of you.

You just have the typical losers mentality. Cleveland got Mozgov, Smith and Shumpert for two future first round picks.....and I'm to believe we can't improve the roster? Not a chance, keep living in fantasy land - the Bulls don't WANT to win, they are content collecting checks and racking in cash. They're more than happy competing with no chance to win a title - and the SAD part is, half the fans are ALSO content with this strategy! UNREAL

Cleveland took BIG salary. They had BIG cap space at first and with those moves they still go over in luxury tax at the end!!!! Only team in NBA history.

And Smith and Shumpert sucked in Knicks. There is reason why nobody in goddamn league took their contracts. Cavs didnt have nothing to lose, they sucked. They had 19-20 record. They needed to do something. Trades at the end payoff. But for rest of the league didnt. Afflalo didnt make Blazers better, neither did Green in Grizzlies.

I mean you living in fantasy land. Jerry is not paying luxury tax unless they win something first. That's his policy.

MC3 · Post #11 » by **MC3** » Sat May 23, 2015 3:41 am

Bulls never had any cap space or expiring contracts to use to get good players in first place. And little bit they did have they made moves in offseason.

People are silly. And it's this topic.

Post #12 » by **GimmeDat** » Sat May 23, 2015 3:44 am

Dajody10 wrote:
GimmeDat wrote:LeBron's an all time great, and he's obviously the crux of this Cavs team, but he's still starting to decline ever so slightly and the Cavs team we versed was more than beatable.

Jimmy held LeBron down really well for most of the series, I believe he shot 42%, the Bulls just played pretty horridly in general for most of the series, especially the last few games, and Atlanta's getting exposed in the playoffs like many presumed they would (not to say they're not a very good team).

No one's saying the development of McDermott/Snell/Mirotic is going to make us title favourites, but rather a combination of their development, a change in the coaching and susbequent re-invigoration of the playing group, and the right moves to consolidate the roster can potentially put is in a very competitive position going forward.

That's a good start, but it's not enough. We need another scoring wing - I said it all last year, I said it in 2010 with Bogans....we need more, it's really very simple. We have four bigs, and we can;t find enough minutes for any of them - and we're pathetic on the wing, yet we're not willing to connect the dots and trade one for the other? It's a basic as you'll find in the NBA - TRADE ONE OF OUR BIGS FOR A SCORING WING, PERIOD.

By all reports that persued avenues to look for a big->wing trade but nothing with solid value eventuated, and the reports are again that we'll look to see what we can get for one of Taj/Noah.

That said, the frontcourt is extremely fragile - Mirotic is young and inconsistent, Noah has a number of question marks surrounding him and played horribly last season, and Pau's turning 35 and can't sustain big minutes. You trade Taj, you better hope we can get another solid big through this off-season to replace him, because our front-line is dangling by a thread.

McDermott should have a ten-fold better sophomore season, we're looking into signing guys like Gerald Green, Dunleavy is a cheap option to return. Obviously Plan A is to trade for a stud SF, but you can't always get an ideal trade lined up.

Dajody10 · Post #13 » by **Dajody10** » Sat May 23, 2015 3:45 am

MC3 wrote:
Dajody10 wrote:
MC3 wrote:I am telling him to stop because he is being silly just like many rest of you.

You just have the typical losers mentality. Cleveland got Mozgov, Smith and Shumpert for two future first round picks.....and I'm to believe we can't improve the roster? Not a chance, keep living in fantasy land - the Bulls don't WANT to win, they are content collecting checks and racking in cash. They're more than happy competing with no chance to win a title - and the SAD part is, half the fans are ALSO content with this strategy! UNREAL

Cleveland took BIG salary. They had BIG cap space at first and with those moves they still go over in luxury tax at the end!!!! Only team in NBA history.

And Smith and Shumpert sucked in Knicks. There is reason why nobody in goddamn league took their contracts. Cavs didnt have nothing to lose, they sucked. They had 19-20 record. They needed to do something.

I mean you living in fantasy land. Jerry is not paying luxury tax unless they win something first. That's his policy.

And you agree with this policy. If you don't think the Bulls could add offensive players like Kevin Martin this summer, you're simply lost. And yes, you'll probably say Kevin Martin isn't turning us into a title contender, but you probably said the same thing about Smith and Shumpert. Put a talented player in a good environment, and you'll see what happens. The Bulls are going into the tax this season regardless if they resign Butler, so what's your point?

You're too dense to understand that everything in the NBA, and in life, is situational. Pau Gasol scuked in LA the last two years, and he was considered overrated in Memphis prior to his trade to the Lakers, yet he was the #2 pillar on two time championship team. It's all about projecting and understanding who your team needs, and how certain guys fill those needs. We've needed another wing scorer for FIVE YEARS and we haven't gotten one yet, what else do you need to see?

Susan · Post #14 » by **Susan** » Sat May 23, 2015 3:48 am

What the heck is MC3 even saying half of the time?

Dajody10 · Post #15 » by **Dajody10** » Sat May 23, 2015 3:49 am

GimmeDat wrote:
Dajody10 wrote:
GimmeDat wrote:LeBron's an all time great, and he's obviously the crux of this Cavs team, but he's still starting to decline ever so slightly and the Cavs team we versed was more than beatable.

Jimmy held LeBron down really well for most of the series, I believe he shot 42%, the Bulls just played pretty horridly in general for most of the series, especially the last few games, and Atlanta's getting exposed in the playoffs like many presumed they would (not to say they're not a very good team).

No one's saying the development of McDermott/Snell/Mirotic is going to make us title favourites, but rather a combination of their development, a change in the coaching and susbequent re-invigoration of the playing group, and the right moves to consolidate the roster can potentially put is in a very competitive position going forward.

That's a good start, but it's not enough. We need another scoring wing - I said it all last year, I said it in 2010 with Bogans....we need more, it's really very simple. We have four bigs, and we can;t find enough minutes for any of them - and we're pathetic on the wing, yet we're not willing to connect the dots and trade one for the other? It's a basic as you'll find in the NBA - TRADE ONE OF OUR BIGS FOR A SCORING WING, PERIOD.

By all reports that persued avenues to look for a big->wing trade but nothing with solid value eventuated, and the reports are again that we'll look to see what we can get for one of Taj/Noah.

That said, the frontcourt is extremely fragile - Mirotic is young and inconsistent, Noah has a number of question marks surrounding him and played horribly last season, and Pau's turning 35 and can't sustain big minutes. You trade Taj, you better hope we can get another solid big through this off-season to replace him, because our front-line is dangling by a thread.

McDermott should have a ten-fold better sophomore season, we're looking into signing guys like Gerald Green, Dunleavy is a cheap option to return. Obviously Plan A is to trade for a stud SF, but you can't always get an ideal trade lined up.

I agree it's a risk considering the fragility of our front court, but we're not going anywhere if anyone gets hurt regardless, as you as with Gasol this year. We had all our bigs, Gaso got hurt and we still couldn't win, right? It doesn't matter - in the end you're at the mercy of injuries regardless, but ti's a helluva lot easier if your other roster holes are filled in the meantime - which has been scoring at the wing for five years running.

Hangtime84 · Post #16 » by **Hangtime84** » Sat May 23, 2015 3:53 am

Dajody10 wrote:
MC3 wrote:I am telling him to stop because he is being silly just like many rest of you.

You just have the typical losers mentality. Cleveland got Mozgov, Smith and Shumpert for two future first round picks.....and I'm to believe we can't improve the roster? Not a chance, keep living in fantasy land - the Bulls don't WANT to win, they are content collecting checks and racking in cash. They're more than happy competing with no chance to win a title - and the SAD part is, half the fans are ALSO content with this strategy! UNREAL

Remember Phil Jackson hates the Bulls. Seeing them NOT SUCCEED would make him extremely happy. Was that honestly a good trade for the Knicks? His ego also helped Melo sign a FAT contract in New York as well.

keloms · Post #17 » by **keloms** » Sat May 23, 2015 3:55 am

The Bulls beat themselves. Cavs didn't beat them.

As far as making a trade, Bulls have 0 desirable assets outside of Jimmy and, even then, is only desirable until he signs the new deal. Once he becomes a max player, half the interest in him league dissapears.

Best thing the Bulls could probably scrap together in this market is a Joe Johnson, but, they'd have to pray that Noah could pass the physical and then throw in someone else like Taj or McD + filler.

keloms · Post #18 » by **keloms** » Sat May 23, 2015 4:00 am

Hangtime84 wrote:
Dajody10 wrote:
MC3 wrote:I am telling him to stop because he is being silly just like many rest of you.

You just have the typical losers mentality. Cleveland got Mozgov, Smith and Shumpert for two future first round picks.....and I'm to believe we can't improve the roster? Not a chance, keep living in fantasy land - the Bulls don't WANT to win, they are content collecting checks and racking in cash. They're more than happy competing with no chance to win a title - and the SAD part is, half the fans are ALSO content with this strategy! UNREAL

Remember Phil Jackson hates the Bulls. Seeing them NOT SUCCEED would make him extremely happy. Was that honestly a good trade for the Knicks? His ego also helped Melo sign a FAT contract in New York as well.

Hell yeah it was. Cleared millions of dollars from NY's cap for the coming year.

Regarding Melo, he's worth every penny. Maybe not on the court anymore, but, where it matters most, in the attractiveness of the team. Melo leaves, Phil looks like a moron with a bunch of scrubs who has little chance to sign anybody of value to join up with them and Phil looks like the driver of the short bus.

Melo stays and NY, with a top 'what-if' pick, instantly becomes more a more desirable place to play and easier for him to sell as a great destination for someone.

Hangtime84 · Post #19 » by **Hangtime84** » Sat May 23, 2015 4:12 am

keloms wrote:
Regarding Melo, he's worth every penny.

How is that so if he only played half the year?

Maybe not on the court anymore, but, where it matters most, in the attractiveness of the team.

I can see the line now. People cannot wait to play the playoff contending team such as the Knicks. I can see the sexiness of getting overpaid to be a starter when that player is really is good 6th man.

Melo leaves, Phil looks like a moron with a bunch of scrubs who has little chance to sign anybody of value to join up with them and Phil looks like the driver of the short bus.

He looks right one right now seeing Shump and Smith succeeding.

Melo stays and NY, with a top 'what-if' pick, instantly becomes more a more desirable place to play and easier for him to sell as a great destination for someone.

Great destination someone to be paid over market price.

Post #20 » by **Rerisen** » Sat May 23, 2015 4:21 am

How is it any different than other Cavs teams LeBron took to the ECF and even Finals?

The East simply isn't that good. LeBron's trajectory was already top 5 player before this year and he's simply continuing his natural course.