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Bulls Training Camp 2015

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Re: Bulls Training Camp 2015 

Post#181 » by JohnnyKILLroy » Sat Oct 3, 2015 2:33 pm

Rerisen wrote:What gets you mileage in the modern league is versatility and players that can play multiple positions, and roles, on both ends.

If Fred can coach up Niko as a SF, it only makes him that much better and our team that much more versatile and lethal. The kneejerk reaction against it, when the other options are so unknown right now, always baffles me.

If Niko can get passable minutes at SF this year, that only increases the likelihood that the guy we drafted can actually get some experience and maybe help the team if he is any good.


Yeah it doesn't hurt to wait and see.

Same goes for Noah. I might be most curious to see how Hoiberg uses him.
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Re: Bulls Training Camp 2015 

Post#182 » by Keller61 » Sat Oct 3, 2015 2:37 pm

When Niko played SF last year, he got lots of open threes but just didn't make them. If he starts knocking those down, the idea won't look as bad.
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Re: Bulls Training Camp 2015 

Post#183 » by Proven_Winner » Sat Oct 3, 2015 2:43 pm

Keller61 wrote:When Niko played SF last year, he got lots of open threes but just didn't make them. If he starts knocking those down, the idea won't look as bad.


Not just that but sometimes he had a bad matchup having to guard guys like j.r. And shumpert where he didn't have a chance in hell to succeed. If he gets paired against other hybrid forwards like Jeff green no one should complain about him playing SF.
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Re: Bulls Training Camp 2015 

Post#184 » by unknownnewbie » Sat Oct 3, 2015 2:56 pm

NecessaryEvil wrote:
unknownnewbie wrote:I don't know how Hoiberg could commit to a starting lineup yet. Until D-Rose returns, the only 2 guys who seem guaranteed to start are Pau & Jimmy. The other 3 spots are still TBD. I doubt he has any real clue about who to start with Pau or who the starting 3 will be...they've only had, what, 3 days of training camp?


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You don't think a former MVP has a guaranteed starting spot?



I think you missed the part where I said UNTIL D-ROSE COMES BACK
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Re: Bulls Training Camp 2015 

Post#185 » by aaqubed » Sat Oct 3, 2015 3:35 pm

Rerisen wrote:What gets you mileage in the modern league is versatility and players that can play multiple positions, and roles, on both ends.

If Fred can coach up Niko as a SF, it only makes him that much better and our team that much more versatile and lethal. The kneejerk reaction against it, when the other options are so unknown right now, always baffles me.

If Niko can get passable minutes at SF this year, that only increases the likelihood that the guy we drafted can actually get some experience and maybe help the team if he is any good.


It's not a kneejerk reaction. It's a reaction to the fact that he was terrible at it last year. Worse than Snell, on both ends, when he was at the 3. Meanwhile when he was at the 4 he was awesome.

Now I agree, it'd be great if he can play the 3 at an average level. But I'm not holding my breath on that.
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Re: Bulls Training Camp 2015 

Post#186 » by NecessaryEvil » Sat Oct 3, 2015 4:03 pm

unknownnewbie wrote:
NecessaryEvil wrote:
unknownnewbie wrote:I don't know how Hoiberg could commit to a starting lineup yet. Until D-Rose returns, the only 2 guys who seem guaranteed to start are Pau & Jimmy. The other 3 spots are still TBD. I doubt he has any real clue about who to start with Pau or who the starting 3 will be...they've only had, what, 3 days of training camp?


Image

You don't think a former MVP has a guaranteed starting spot?



I think you missed the part where I said UNTIL D-ROSE COMES BACK


He should be part of your starting line-up regardless. Who cares who starts for him in the mean time. He's only gone a couple weeks. THEY obviously aren't going to be starters.
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Re: Bulls Training Camp 2015 

Post#187 » by TruthSerum » Sat Oct 3, 2015 6:20 pm

NecessaryEvil wrote:
unknownnewbie wrote:
NecessaryEvil wrote:
Image

You don't think a former MVP has a guaranteed starting spot?



I think you missed the part where I said UNTIL D-ROSE COMES BACK


He should be part of your starting line-up regardless. Who cares who starts for him in the mean time. He's only gone a couple weeks. THEY obviously aren't going to be starters.


Would be wise for Hoiberg to start somebody like Kirk in place of Rose for the duration of his absence to have less moving parts while tinkering with McD and Snell in starting line-ups. Far as the other question mark in our starting 5, just figure out how to best limit Noah and Gasol on the court together. Maybe something like:

1st qtr
Pau 7 --> Jo 5
Taj 7 -- > Niko 5

2nd qtr
Jo 2 --> Pau 4 --> Jo 6
Niko 2 --> Taj 7 --> Pau 3
with Niko finishing 1st half @ SF 6 minutes
2nd half more based on score and adjustments. *fingers crossed*
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51st pick vs. 11th pick
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Re: Bulls Training Camp 2015 

Post#188 » by bulliedog8 » Sat Oct 3, 2015 7:27 pm

Probably could go in the rose thread but oh well.

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Re: Bulls Training Camp 2015 

Post#189 » by stillalive » Sat Oct 3, 2015 9:31 pm

Bulls: Derrick Rose advised to stay away from team while eye heals

The Bulls coaching staff will take a trip to see Rose, to watch film with him and go over some new concepts since he can’t physically be in the building to observe.

“Like we talked about [Friday], we’ve added new sets, new things, so we’ll get him caught up by a couple of coaches going over and seeing him at his house,” Hoiberg said.

Backup guard Kirk Hinrich said once Rose returns to play, it shouldn’t be a complicated system to figure out.

“Yeah, no question. With a guy like Derrick, it's a perfect system for him,” Hinrich said. “Get stops, push the ball up and make basketball plays. He's as good as anybody at that.”


http://www.csnchicago.com/bulls/bulls-derrick-rose-advised-stay-away-team-while-eye-heals
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Re: Bulls Training Camp 2015 

Post#190 » by Indomitable » Sat Oct 3, 2015 10:25 pm

d boy gentleman wrote:
Keller61 wrote:
Red-Bulls83 wrote:I'm guessing the media won't be talking about these quotes in regards to Derrick.


Somebody text this to Waddle & Whiny.


WOW, thought it was just me that thought Silvy came off as whiny and his nasaly voice doesn't help either. I stopped listening to them for a good two months and don't think I'll go back to listening.

Yes he is and Waddle should smack every show
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Re: Bulls Training Camp 2015 

Post#191 » by Rerisen » Sat Oct 3, 2015 10:27 pm

aaqubed wrote:
Rerisen wrote:What gets you mileage in the modern league is versatility and players that can play multiple positions, and roles, on both ends.

If Fred can coach up Niko as a SF, it only makes him that much better and our team that much more versatile and lethal. The kneejerk reaction against it, when the other options are so unknown right now, always baffles me.

If Niko can get passable minutes at SF this year, that only increases the likelihood that the guy we drafted can actually get some experience and maybe help the team if he is any good.


It's not a kneejerk reaction. It's a reaction to the fact that he was terrible at it last year. Worse than Snell, on both ends, when he was at the 3. Meanwhile when he was at the 4 he was awesome.

Now I agree, it'd be great if he can play the 3 at an average level. But I'm not holding my breath on that.


He was also a rookie and the other options at SF also stunk, including Snell most of the year.

You have to give a rookie, coming to a new league and new culture, more than one year to prove what he can do or not.

Niko also sucked in the playoffs last year, but wouldn't it be stupid to suggest we should never play him in the playoffs again? I don't think it would be much more stupid to say he should never play SF again, especially when all the big slots are heavily contested for minutes.
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Re: Bulls Training Camp 2015 

Post#192 » by aaqubed » Sun Oct 4, 2015 12:07 am

Rerisen wrote:
aaqubed wrote:
Rerisen wrote:What gets you mileage in the modern league is versatility and players that can play multiple positions, and roles, on both ends.

If Fred can coach up Niko as a SF, it only makes him that much better and our team that much more versatile and lethal. The kneejerk reaction against it, when the other options are so unknown right now, always baffles me.

If Niko can get passable minutes at SF this year, that only increases the likelihood that the guy we drafted can actually get some experience and maybe help the team if he is any good.


It's not a kneejerk reaction. It's a reaction to the fact that he was terrible at it last year. Worse than Snell, on both ends, when he was at the 3. Meanwhile when he was at the 4 he was awesome.

Now I agree, it'd be great if he can play the 3 at an average level. But I'm not holding my breath on that.


He was also a rookie and the other options at SF also stunk, including Snell most of the year.

You have to give a rookie, coming to a new league and new culture, more than one year to prove what he can do or not.

Niko also sucked in the playoffs last year, but wouldn't it be stupid to suggest we should never play him in the playoffs again? I don't think it would be much more stupid to say he should never play SF again, especially when all the big slots are heavily contested for minutes.


I didn't say he should never play SF again. But I don't think it's a "kneejerk" reaction to say that Snell is probably a better option there. Snell might not have been very good, but Niko wasn't either (at the 3), and if you're arguing that he needs more time, then so does Snell (and Doug for that matter, who I also have not given up on).

We know that when Niko is at the 4, he has several advantages that he can exploit, right now. He is quicker than most 4's, he has the ball handling to get by them, he can beat them down the floor. At the 3, he doesn't really have those advantages. And at the same time, he was straight up terrible defensively on that end.

Yes, the other options stunk (besides Dunleavy, who most certainly did not). But I do think that Snell was better at the 3, particularly on defense.

Ideally, I'd prefer a trade where we send Noah or Taj and get a starting level 3 in return, and then Niko will step into a 25-30 minute role as the third big (with Portis as the 4th in a small role this season). Obviously I'm not going to hate it if Niko CAN play the 3, it's a good thing for him to learn, but I'm not holding my breath on him turning into a good player at that position. I'm more optimistic that Snell or Doug could turn into a starting caliber 3 than I am that Niko can.
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Re: Bulls Training Camp 2015 

Post#193 » by dumbell78 » Sun Oct 4, 2015 12:20 am

With Niko at the SF spot I'm much more worried about the defensive end. I have full confidence in his offensive ability, and he will start draining the NBA 3, its just a matter of time. He has good play making abilities, much more so than MDJ at this point of his career.

Niko's issue at the SF is he simply cant guard opposing wings, Im sorry that's reality right now. I don't think Hoiberg can coach that up, Thibs certainly couldn't. He looked foolish trying to guard opposing SF and SG, that wont change. That ultimately compromises your team because he isnt being maximized on the floor, only way that happens is at the PF spot.

Bottom line we have 4 starting bigs on our team,5 solid ones if you include Portis (who Im high on), and no legit starting SF. We cant dance around that no matter how much of a basketball whisperer Hoiberg is.
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Re: Bulls Training Camp 2015 

Post#194 » by ImSlower » Sun Oct 4, 2015 5:21 am

I am unfamiliar with the specifics of Rose's injury and surgery/recovery. Can't he just he walk around with the one eye covered? Wouldn't One Eyed Rose sitting at practice be better than having him away?

Or is he basically blindfolded during the healing?
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Re: Bulls Training Camp 2015 

Post#195 » by Rerisen » Sun Oct 4, 2015 5:29 am

aaqubed wrote:and if you're arguing that he needs more time, then so does Snell (and Doug for that matter, who I also have not given up on).


They both need more time there imo, and play your best guys out of that.

Of course Niko is much better at the 4, but we also have 3 other quality bigs and maybe even Portis could contribute. But if players are healthy it means one of those bigs will play 15 minutes a game like Niko did last year when we were at full health. That's not enough time for Taj making 8.5 million, and neither for a budding player like Niko.

If Niko plays to his potential he simply has a lot more talent than Snell. While defense is a concern on some matchups, I don't see anything Mike Dunleavy does at the SF that Niko could not do in theory.

I'm more optimistic that Snell or Doug could turn into a starting caliber 3 than I am that Niko can.


You may be right, I'm just not willing to give up on any of them giving quality minutes there while its such an unknown for us. Especially while Mike is out. It's not like Doug or Snell showed so much last year that they are good enough to just hand 48 minutes to them every night at the spot case closed.

Let's say for example one of Doug or Snell advances nicely, but the other is about the same or marginally better, then you still probably have 15-18 minutes at the SF to dole out for the backup, which Niko could compete with the other guy for. Unless we are going back to Hinrich at SG and Butler at SF... :uhoh:
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Re: Bulls Training Camp 2015 

Post#196 » by PrimzyBulls81 » Sun Oct 4, 2015 7:27 am

Rose, Butler, Snell, Mirotic, Gasol SHOULD Be starting lineup..The only doubt is Taj or Miro next to Pau,offensive or defensive PF..
Snell will have his breakout season after good last season..his 3rd season like Jimmy's..
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Re: Bulls Training Camp 2015 

Post#197 » by Red8911 » Sun Oct 4, 2015 2:39 pm

PrimzyBulls81 wrote:Rose, Butler, Snell, Mirotic, Gasol SHOULD Be starting lineup..The only doubt is Taj or Miro next to Pau,offensive or defensive PF..
Snell will have his breakout season after good last season..his 3rd season like Jimmy's..

Hoiberg will probably start off with Jo-pau again,see how it goes and if it doesn't work I'm sure he will change it up during the season.Thibs was the only guy who refused change,went with the same lineup all yr no matter what, unless there were injuries.
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Re: Bulls Training Camp 2015 

Post#198 » by Krazy!!! » Sun Oct 4, 2015 4:15 pm

I hope Snell realizes the fullness of his potential this season as opposed to being a flash in the pan.
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Re: Bulls Training Camp 2015 

Post#199 » by DRoseCantStop » Sun Oct 4, 2015 4:56 pm

PrimzyBulls81 wrote:Rose, Butler, Snell, Mirotic, Noah SHOULD Be starting lineup..

Fixed.
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Re: Bulls Training Camp 2015 

Post#200 » by NZB2323 » Sun Oct 4, 2015 5:54 pm

I would start Rose, Butler, Snell, Gibson and Gasol. All 5 guys are two-way players.

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