Bulls 2016 season Team Leadership role thread

[League Circles]

"Leadership is one of the only things that this team has really been lacking. We've had a little here and there."

That doesn't sit too well with me.

My read is that Jimmy in a sense is calling himself out too. He played into this by assuming the role of the junior guy, following in the lead of the more seasoned veterans. In his view, that did not work. So now he's taking matters into his own hands.

Of course, I could be wrong, but that seems to be what he is saying. He is not going to wait around for somebody else to take charge. He feels ready and he's going to do it.

I don't quite understand why he said that publicly -- that seems unnecessary -- but that we have an All Star in his prime who by all accounts is an extremely hard worker, and who wants to take on more responsibility, that surely seems to be a good thing.

You know what, you're right. Or at least I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt like I do with Derrick's comments. It's all good.

[Ice Man]

It's all good.

It's October and the Bulls are undefeated. Darn right it's all good.

[Rerisen]

I rarely hear anything valuable on the talking heads on TV but the other day a guest said something that countered this idea pretty well. That despite Jimmy's words, leadership has not been the problem on this team the last few years, rather simply, injuries.

If Derrick Rose never gets hurt in 2012, and then never misses most or all of the following years, I doubt we'd be countenancing Butler's words as if they are true and something that needs addressing.

[Rerisen]

Bigger picture, I'm getting the sense of a Jimmy Butler takeover of the team.

In the offseason, there was a period where some articles came out hinting that Jimmy might want the 3 year deal because he wasn't super happy here. Then everyone laughed it up when he resigned for the max years no opt out. But I don't think that means Jimmy didn't think about if this was the right place for him. But rather he just decided there was little chance he could get out of here anytime soon even if he wanted, so the better solution for him was to simply takeover the team with his role and his leadership and by virtue of that process, squash any tension with Rose or anyone else, because Jimmy would be running the show.

We'll see how that sits with Derrick, as well as comments such as these, and if the two can get along in a basketball chemistry sense this year.

[Ice Man]

If Derrick Rose never gets hurt in 2012, and then never misses most or all of the following years, I doubt we'd be countenancing Butler's words as if they are true and something that needs addressing.

For the record, I am not saying that Butler's words are "true." I can't see from the outside if the Bulls had leadership problems. My claim is that Butler is using that item as one of his motivations to notch up his game from being All Star level to being that of a superstar. More power to him if he can do that.

[Rerisen]

^ No doubt, but where Jimmy derives motivation could be a place of conflict if he's too overt about where its coming from.

I'm not seeing so much lack of leadership, as a reshuffling of roles and status, as part of the transfer over to Hoiberg, as well as the obvious declines in Jo and Rose the last few years due to injury. Last year various team issues were attempted to be muffled with the 'big idea' that its all about Rose and Noah's health. To whatever extent that was true, it wasn't lost on the other teammates I'm sure, and I think they are kind of sick of it being the case. And probably not all that confident in the team's fortunes if it is the case.

Let's not forget the reports (Cowley again) that some other Bulls players were less than happy with how Rose and Noah got Jen sanctioned free passes out of practices and such last year.

Jo was certainly a leader in past seasons, but now as a guy who might in reality only play 25 minutes a game this year, and not make near the same impact he used to, hard to be such a leader. And when Jimmy talks about 'backing it up' in regards to leading, Noah almost comes to mind more than Rose.

Jimmy, Niko, Doug, the next generation is starting to knock on the door here of what this team is all about, while Rose and Noah might have to take some steps back, make room for them, and welcome their elevated importance if this team is going to get anywhere great.

[GimmeDat]

Sam Smith basically echoed my thoughts here -

http://blogs.bulls.com/2015/10/jimmy-butler-adding-yet-more-to-his-repertoire/

“We’ve got guys who can score, guys who can facilitate, guys who can rebound, guys who can shoot, guys who can drive. We need a guy who is going to step in and be that vocal guy in this locker room, on the practice court, in the game. And I think that’s what I’m going to have to be,” said Butler. “I’m growing in this league. I’m here four years now. I have to take another leap forward. I think that’s going to be on the leadership side. Not just on the court.

“We have a couple of guys quiet by nature,” added Butler, who until this season has been one of those guys, mostly deferential and to himself. “There’s nothing wrong with that. Guys lead with their emotions if it’s Jo (Noah), with their play if it’s Derrick (Rose), Pau (Gasol). He’s been around winning teams. You need a guy who’s going hard every night and backs up what he is talking about. I definitely think it is going to be me.”

It’s a bold step for Butler and welcomed by coach Fred Hoiberg, who said any team could or should want multiple leaders. In fact, the best teams are player coached, in a sense. Not to say the coach isn’t a leader or is negated. But teams that have players who can both get along well and then settle their disputes internally and motivate themselves are the stuff of champions.

Leadership in sports, in many respects, is misunderstood.

It was simple in Chicago in the 1990s because of Michel Jordan’s legendary greatness. But that is rare. Good teams generally have multiple leaders who perform in varying ways.

The most outspoken leader for the champion Golden State Warriors last season, for example, was Draymond Green. Stephen Curry was probably the third “leader” behind also Andre Iguodala. But the team prospered because so many players assumed various roles and were able to demand of one another without negative reaction or fallout.

Which Butler seemed to understand as well rather than suggest it was “his team,” or that he needed to stand above others in influence and authority.

“I think we need a locker room full of leaders,” said Butler. “No (one) more than anyone else. When times get tough, we’re down, not making stops, somebody, I have to be that guy to get us together and make sure we are supposed to be doing what we are supposed to be doing.”

Reading Jimmy's full quotes, it seems him 'taking the reigns' was a bit overblown.

A lot more at the link btw, worth the click.

Also,

“You have to realize the game isn’t always about scoring,” said Butler, who also had 23 points Tuesday and was team’s leading scorer last season. “It’s not all about you. You have to be able to find the open guy because we have a hell of lot of shooters on this team. Whether it’s Niko (Mirotic), Doug; Joakim wants to shoot threes now. We have a lot of guys who can put the ball in the basket. So it’s going to be my job to get them the ball where they are comfortable.”

This better not be serious

[ADDinChicago]

Leadership is not overall talent.

The leaders on the team will continue to be Gasol, Noah & Dunleavy (there's a big reason Gasol & Dunleavy were pursued hard by the Bulls and it wasn't just based on play. This team needed vet voice and presence, badly). The savvy vets that know the game and have the demeanor and have been in the ****.

Butler might think he's the leader as he thinks a lot of things (both good & bad), and in time he might be. And whatever he needs to tell himself to motivate himself, awesome. As I've said before, Jimmy clearly has a very high opinion of Jimmy. So far it works. I just hope, over time, it's not his downfall (biting off more than he can chew as he's a very good player, but not a great player).

The Butler v. Rose anything is laughable. Especially when it comes to "leadership". It's like the people that whine how Jay Cutler is not the Bears' "leader". They clearly have no clue what goes on in a locker room or how a real team works.

[Stratmaster]

I think it should be just that - 'team' leadership.

There's too much emphasis on 'who is going to be the leader' or 'whose team it is'. When ego's and roles become entangled, that's when no ones really a leader. We're used to the Kobe/MJ alpha archetype, but so many championship teams have very different makeups in that regard... look at the Spurs, look at the Warriors... everyone's a leader and everyone can step up on a given night. When it comes to the Jimmy/Rose combination, look no further than the Big 3 era Heat... the first year had some growing pains, but 2nd year they were both 'alphas', and worked that dynamic successfully.

Rose, Butler, Jo and Taj are the main guys on the roster, and I think they all lead in different ways, and we have vets like Kirk and Dunleavy as well. At the end of the day, it just comes down to everyone sacrificing their bit to make sure the team succeeds as a whole. Everyone shouldn't be afraid to say their piece, and everyone should hold everyone else accountable. That's how a good team works.

Agree completely. You can add Gasol to that list too as he has been known to speak up when the team is lagging. The Bulls have a lot of players with strong pedigrees now. They can all help lead the youngsters.

[Stratmaster]

I think it should be just that - 'team' leadership.

There's too much emphasis on 'who is going to be the leader' or 'whose team it is'. When ego's and roles become entangled, that's when no ones really a leader. We're used to the Kobe/MJ alpha archetype, but so many championship teams have very different makeups in that regard

I commented late last year that this team had become Jimmy's team, and got the expected insults from people who told me that I was stupid, the word "team" means team and it's everybody's team. But I don't think that is a realistic view of how many squads operate. As you write, some teams really do seem to be ensembles of personalities. But others are not. Some have alpha structures, as the Bulls did in 2014 when Jo carried the squad with his game and mindset after the Lu trade. The key, of course, is not what I think ... it's what the players think. And Jimmy does seem to think that this is his team. He is MJ/Kobe. The betas can stand in line.

Whether Jimmy is right or wrong to have that opinion, I don't know if it's the most successful way to go about it. I love Jimmy's leadership, he's not afraid to speak up and he always backs it up. However, considering the other guys on the team, I question whether Jimmy going all alpha in that regard is the most conducive thing he can do as a leader. In particular the situation with Rose... I don't think he'll readily accept being the 2nd fiddle - carrying the team for a couple of years, getting injured for a couple, and coming back only to relinquish top dog role is a tough pill to swallow, especially for a guy who quietly thinks he can come back to MVP form.

I think the best outcome is for them to become a 1a/1b. It's the only way I see the backcourt, and the team, working. Rose doesn't have to be the verbal leader, he'll go out and do what he does, Jimmy and Jo take the reigns as leaders in that sense.

I don't say this because I think Rose is too stubborn to make the required sacrifices, I just think it's best in terms of usage to get the most out of our playing group.

I will add that being the most vocal or the most rah-rah doesn't make you the leader. It also isn't done in public. If he wants to be a leader he needs to quit talking about it, understand that to lead you have to know the personalities of those you are leading, and your approach to each individual has to be different based on that.

Maybe Butler knows all this. Maybe he has assessed Rose and believes the best way to motivate him is to challenge his alpha scorer status; or maybe he has no clue and is just running his mouth. We will likely never really know.

[GimmeDat]

I commented late last year that this team had become Jimmy's team, and got the expected insults from people who told me that I was stupid, the word "team" means team and it's everybody's team. But I don't think that is a realistic view of how many squads operate. As you write, some teams really do seem to be ensembles of personalities. But others are not. Some have alpha structures, as the Bulls did in 2014 when Jo carried the squad with his game and mindset after the Lu trade. The key, of course, is not what I think ... it's what the players think. And Jimmy does seem to think that this is his team. He is MJ/Kobe. The betas can stand in line.

Whether Jimmy is right or wrong to have that opinion, I don't know if it's the most successful way to go about it. I love Jimmy's leadership, he's not afraid to speak up and he always backs it up. However, considering the other guys on the team, I question whether Jimmy going all alpha in that regard is the most conducive thing he can do as a leader. In particular the situation with Rose... I don't think he'll readily accept being the 2nd fiddle - carrying the team for a couple of years, getting injured for a couple, and coming back only to relinquish top dog role is a tough pill to swallow, especially for a guy who quietly thinks he can come back to MVP form.

I think the best outcome is for them to become a 1a/1b. It's the only way I see the backcourt, and the team, working. Rose doesn't have to be the verbal leader, he'll go out and do what he does, Jimmy and Jo take the reigns as leaders in that sense.

I don't say this because I think Rose is too stubborn to make the required sacrifices, I just think it's best in terms of usage to get the most out of our playing group.

I will add that being the most vocal or the most rah-rah doesn't make you the leader. It also isn't done in public. If he wants to be a leader he needs to quit talking about it, understand that to lead you have to know the personalities of those you are leading, and your approach to each individual has to be different based on that.

Maybe Butler knows all this. Maybe he has assessed Rose and believes the best way to motivate him is to challenge his alpha scorer status; or maybe he has no clue and is just running his mouth. We will likely never really know.

In fairness to Jimmy, having read his quotes in the article I posted above, I don't think he's challenging the hierarchy or anything here. He just sees a caveat where he thinks there's a leadership role that he needs to fulfill, and so he's going to fill it. He's the perfect guy for the role, as well. As he said, there's different personalities and thus different types of leaders on the team. I don't think he's trying to undermine Derrick, Jo, or anyone else by his statements.

[Stratmaster]

Whether Jimmy is right or wrong to have that opinion, I don't know if it's the most successful way to go about it. I love Jimmy's leadership, he's not afraid to speak up and he always backs it up. However, considering the other guys on the team, I question whether Jimmy going all alpha in that regard is the most conducive thing he can do as a leader. In particular the situation with Rose... I don't think he'll readily accept being the 2nd fiddle - carrying the team for a couple of years, getting injured for a couple, and coming back only to relinquish top dog role is a tough pill to swallow, especially for a guy who quietly thinks he can come back to MVP form.

I think the best outcome is for them to become a 1a/1b. It's the only way I see the backcourt, and the team, working. Rose doesn't have to be the verbal leader, he'll go out and do what he does, Jimmy and Jo take the reigns as leaders in that sense.

I don't say this because I think Rose is too stubborn to make the required sacrifices, I just think it's best in terms of usage to get the most out of our playing group.

I will add that being the most vocal or the most rah-rah doesn't make you the leader. It also isn't done in public. If he wants to be a leader he needs to quit talking about it, understand that to lead you have to know the personalities of those you are leading, and your approach to each individual has to be different based on that.

Maybe Butler knows all this. Maybe he has assessed Rose and believes the best way to motivate him is to challenge his alpha scorer status; or maybe he has no clue and is just running his mouth. We will likely never really know.

In fairness to Jimmy, having read his quotes in the article I posted above, I don't think he's challenging the hierarchy or anything here. He just sees a caveat where he thinks there's a leadership role that he needs to fulfill, and so he's going to fill it. He's the perfect guy for the role, as well. As he said, there's different personalities and thus different types of leaders on the team. I don't think he's trying to undermine Derrick, Jo, or anyone else by his statements.

Agreed. But another poster pointed out that talking about being the leader is pretty lame. Kind of like clicking "And1" on your own post. Or referring to yourself in the 3rd person (Cliff, where are you?)...with a straight face.

[DASMACKDOWN]

Ok I have to get this off my chest because I think the whole argument is ridiculous.

Is it me, but I dont remember time standing still the last 4 years during Derrick's injures. People are acting like the last 4 years never existed and circumstances haven't changed.

Wake up folks..things have changed.

Just stop for a minute and just think....Who on this roster even knows or played with MVP Derrick?

Joakim Noah and Taj Gibson.. THATS IT!!!

Its a whole new team around Rose during those 4 injury filled years. People have to remember that.

So many people have this expectation that its just some cookie cutter scenario that Rose will do everything exactly the same as 4 years ago and we will be fine. It just doesn't work that way.

Jimmy was a rookie when Derrick got injured. Barely saw a minute with him. Everyone else is brand spanking new other than Kirk who only played with a young nowhere near as good Derrick.

So Maybe Jimmy who was the underling of Luol Deng, saw Luol being that type of person and realized that maybe, that's what the team was lacking.

And that basically can only be him to take that role.

Is he wrong? Who else is going to be that guy?

[FriedRise]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/KCJHoop/status/652180968560852993[/tweet]
So it wasn't all just Jimmy pounding his chest, thinking it's time for him to be a leader. Everyone on the team wants him to take on that role.