Anyone trust Jimmy Butler to take the next step?

[Ice Man]

You'd think it would be straightforward enough to distinguish between 1) defensive player contacts attacker when attacker is making a legitimate effort to score, and 2) defensive player contacts attacker because attacker initiates the contact, in an artificial fashion. The first would be a foul, the second a no call.

But apparently it's not so easy. At least for NBA officials.

[TheSuzerain]

You'd think it would be straightforward enough to distinguish between 1) defensive player contacts attacker when attacker is making a legitimate effort to score, and 2) defensive player contacts attacker because attacker initiates the contact, in an artificial fashion. The first would be a foul, the second a no call.

But apparently it's not so easy. At least for NBA officials.

It wouldn't be easy for anyone.

[Ice Man]

It's sure as hell easy for me, watching at home.

[MC3]

You'd think it would be straightforward enough to distinguish between 1) defensive player contacts attacker when attacker is making a legitimate effort to score, and 2) defensive player contacts attacker because attacker initiates the contact, in an artificial fashion. The first would be a foul, the second a no call.

But apparently it's not so easy. At least for NBA officials.

let call first one regular foul, and second james harden foul. too many words in full explanation

[snowyseven]

No Butler is what he is a high level all star, 1b/2a player.

[RedBulls23]

No Butler is what he is a high level all star, 1b/2a player.

He's already taken another step. He's looking more like a 1a at the moment and his numbers and advance numbers back it up.

[Jcool0]

No Butler is what he is a high level all star, 1b/2a player.

If you are in the running for MVP you aren't a 1b/2a player.

[ATRAIN53]

LA showed us last night he's already taken this step-

Walton was pretty much like 'you're not beating us with 20 FTA tonight Jimmy, enjoy some double team'

Last night was the first time I felt transported back to the early Jordan era when teams would double and triple team him and force him to pass it. bodies draped all over him he'd have to find a guy or put his head down and try to get to the bucket and would just get hammered by someone like LameBeer or Mahorn.

We were stuck in that era until Pippen came along and developed into the guy that made people pay when they double teamed him.

This is what I'm hoping Wade will be for Jimmy, because as good as Butler is you can't battle double teams for 80+ games and them 20 more playoff games. MJ couldn't do it, nor could Lebron. So anyone expecting Jimmy to is

We should have seen it last night but Wade was not 100%.....

[kulaz3000]

LA showed us last night he's already taken this step-

Walton was pretty much like 'you're not beating us with 20 FTA tonight Jimmy, enjoy some double team'

Last night was the first time I felt transported back to the early Jordan era when teams would double and triple team him and force him to pass it. bodies draped all over him he'd have to find a guy or put his head down and try to get to the bucket and would just get hammered by someone like LameBeer or Mahorn.

We were stuck in that era until Pippen came along and developed into the guy that made people pay when they double teamed him.

This is what I'm hoping Wade will be for Jimmy, because as good as Butler is you can't battle double teams for 80+ games and them 20 more playoff games. MJ couldn't do it, nor could Lebron. So anyone expecting Jimmy to is

We should have seen it last night but Wade was not 100%.....

This is exactly why it's extremely difficult to win a championship without 2 true star players on the roster. Yes, we have Wade, but he is a borderline star at this stage in his career, and we need to enjoy what he has left this season and perhaps the next. What we really need is either get super lucky in the draft and get ourselves another Jimmy Butler type of player, trade for a star, or sign one.

I know there are other sexy names out there in free agency, but in terms of the more realistic and desired free agents out there, my number one is Gordon Haywood. He is roughly Butler's age, he is in his prime and not some 30 year old player coming out of his prime. He does a little of everything out on the floor, and I think he'd be a better fit for this team and Butler then someone like Blake. Yes, I know there is also Chris Paul, but with his age, and the money he'll demand, I'd prefer to get someone younger like Haywood next to Jimmy.

[AKfanatic]

LA showed us last night he's already taken this step-

Walton was pretty much like 'you're not beating us with 20 FTA tonight Jimmy, enjoy some double team'

Last night was the first time I felt transported back to the early Jordan era when teams would double and triple team him and force him to pass it. bodies draped all over him he'd have to find a guy or put his head down and try to get to the bucket and would just get hammered by someone like LameBeer or Mahorn.

We were stuck in that era until Pippen came along and developed into the guy that made people pay when they double teamed him.

This is what I'm hoping Wade will be for Jimmy, because as good as Butler is you can't battle double teams for 80+ games and them 20 more playoff games. MJ couldn't do it, nor could Lebron. So anyone expecting Jimmy to is

We should have seen it last night but Wade was not 100%.....

This is exactly why it's extremely difficult to win a championship without 2 true star players on the roster. Yes, we have Wade, but he is a borderline star at this stage in his career, and we need to enjoy what he has left this season and perhaps the next. What we really need is either get super lucky in the draft and get ourselves another Jimmy Butler type of player, trade for a star, or sign one.

I know there are other sexy names out there in free agency, but in terms of the more realistic and desired free agents out there, my number one is Gordon Haywood. He is roughly Butler's age, he is in his prime and not some 30 year old player coming out of his prime. He does a little of everything out on the floor, and I think he'd be a better fit for this team and Butler then someone like Blake. Yes, I know there is also Chris Paul, but with his age, and the money he'll demand, I'd prefer to get someone younger like Haywood next to Jimmy.

+1

Hayward is the guy, as another poster (suzerian maybe?) has been pushing for a long time.

Everything about his game screams perfect fit for Jimmy and the Bulls.

[TheGOATRises007]

Watching this Houston game, you see how Houston has multiple shooters around Harden.

We really need to surround Butler with more offensive weapons.

We made the same mistake when we had Rose. Let's not repeat it.

[BullRosed]

Watching this Houston game, you see how Houston has multiple shooters around Harden.

We really need to surround Butler with more offensive weapons.

We made the same mistake when we had Rose. Let's not repeat it.

When Rose was "Rose" we had horrible floor spacing. the only once that could shoot was Loul Deng and Rose, and that is too easy to defend in the NBA Playoffs that why we got beat by the heat, however we still put up a great fight.

Rose
Bogans
Deng
Boozer
Noah

and when taj and noah was playing together it was even worse, they just kept passing it too eachother and trying to let Rose, or Deng bail them out.

Rose won MVP with a shooting guard that could not shoot...... thats how good he really was. imagine if we had a extra scorer/shot creator like Nate at that time to take the pressure off.

when the heat was double teaming and trapping rose as soon as he brought it up he would pass it to Bogans or the backcourt and we would not make them pay for trapping or double teaming, it was too easy for the heat and putting too much pressure on Rose.

[DuckIII]

No Butler is what he is a high level all star, 1b/2a player.

Not this season. This season, so far, he's indisputably playing at a franchise superstar level.

[fleet]

Watching this Houston game, you see how Houston has multiple shooters around Harden.

We really need to surround Butler with more offensive weapons.

We made the same mistake when we had Rose. Let's not repeat it.

I agree that is a need. But ultimately, I think the Bulls will lose the playoffs on defense. They need a defensive bench mob. 3 and D bench mob if you will.

[Leslie Forman]

No Butler is what he is a high level all star, 1b/2a player.

If you are in the running for MVP you aren't a 1b/2a player.

That's not necessarily true. I'd say that's exactly what Pippen was and he was 3rd in '94. People will disagree but Rose would also go in that category IMO.

Speaking of which, 2017 Butler is clearly better than '11 Rose. Is he as good as '94 Pippen yet?

[Jcool0]

No Butler is what he is a high level all star, 1b/2a player.

If you are in the running for MVP you aren't a 1b/2a player.

That's not necessarily true. I'd say that's exactly what Pippen was and he was 3rd in '94. People will disagree but Rose would also go in that category IMO.

Speaking of which, 2017 Butler is clearly better than '11 Rose. Is he as good as '94 Pippen yet?

The only reason Pippen wasn't a #1 player was because he was playing with the great player of all time. IMO a 1B/2A player does not get named to the 50 greatest players of all time list.

As for who was better 1994 Pippen or Butler?

Butler: 27.7 PER. Rose: 23.5 PER. Pippen: 23.2 PER.

Butler: 25.6 ppg. Rose: 25.0 ppg. Pippen: 22.0 ppg.

Butler: 9.9 FTA. Rose: 6.9 FTA. Pippen: 5.7 FTA.

Rose: 32.2 USG%. Butler: 27.3 USG%. Pippen: 27.1 USG%.

Butler: .611 TS%. Rose: .550 TS%. Pippen: .544 TS%.

[Rerisen]

How many more games before we declare this Jimmy is here to stay? Maybe some are already there.

Getting real close. I would say 3-5 more games and I'll be fairly convinced.

[Leslie Forman]

The only reason Pippen wasn't a #1 player was because he was playing with the great player of all time. IMO a 1B/2A player does not get named to the 50 greatest players of all time list.

Well then you must have an astonishingly low opinion of the likes of Bill Russell, Kevin Garnett, John Stockton, etc.

Pippen was an all-time great, but all-time great scorer…not so much.

I think Butler would need to put up multiple high efficiency, 25PPG+ seasons to really be considered in that top, top level of star player. And playoff series to match, of course. He's on his way there right now but I have a feeling either his volume or efficiency will dip a bit as the season drags on.

[RedBulls23]

How many more games before we declare this Jimmy is here to stay? Maybe some are already there.

Getting real close. I would say 3-5 more games and I'll be fairly convinced.

I'm at the point where I was about a week ago, that even if he falls some, he will still be a 26 PER player. Imo, that's a superstar/top 10 player

When ever he has a bad game, it doesn't take him long to bounce back.

[TheGOATRises007]

I want to see his numbers by the AS break, but he's definitely improved over last season. Obviously. Just depends on how much.