PG: Jimmy G Buckets and Dougie McBuckets!!

[Ice Man]

havent looked at wins-losses but we kinda "look" better without wade too. over the last month at least.

We do.

Now, don't get me wrong, if Wade plays as he did in the first 6 weeks of the season, he is clearly a positive -- the second best player on the squad. But the version of Wade since early December has not been a particularly good player. That version of Wade has been sub-500 TS%, holding onto the ball a lot, meh defense (steals but not consistently on his man).

[Payt10]

The Bulls could lessen the minutes burden of Wade as a way to sort of "phase him out," seeing as though they tend to play better when he's not in the game. Instead of bringing him in right away to start 2nd and 4th quarters, let him rest a few extra minutes and see what Denzel, Rondo, Doug, Niko, and Felicio can do out there.

[Mr. Tibbs]

Lopez had a sweet assist of his face. Even better was the solid Simpsons reference.

Read on Twitter

[ArizonaBullsFan]

Lets wait and see if Doug can put together a series of solid games before we all start jerkin each other.

Yeah, like we did with Valentine

I have finally resigned myself to the fact that on a message board, every player is as good as their last 3 shot attempts.

Fixed it for you...

[HomoSapien]

Dougie always seems to do better when we don't exclusively use him as a shooter. Last night we went to him in the post, and he excelled - just like at college. I suspect that's the trick to getting him going.

[Betta Bulleavit]

The offense was completely different when McDermott and Rondo were running the 2nd unit. McD was everywhere. Naturally, he excelled the way he used to at Creighton. When he was on the floor with the first unit, he looks like the last person they'll ever pass the ball to. I don't think it's McD. I think it's the mindset of the first unit, and offensive strategy. Butler, MCW and even Wade completely waste McD. Or is it Fred?

Wade seems to mindfully ignore him the most. Butler works well with him, and I haven't noticed a positive or negative relationship b/w McD and MCW. But he was particularly aggressive about getting open today which isn't always the case, so I give him props. Always fun to see someone who comes off as deferential look angry on court.

With regards to your first sentence, nothing could be further from the truth. Wade is one of the few that looks for Doug almost instinctively and I could point out a few examples just off the top of my head.

[RememberLu]

Dougie always seems to do better when we don't exclusively use him as a shooter. Last night we went to him in the post, and he excelled - just like at college. I suspect that's the trick to getting him going.

He can't consistently play that way though, yesterday was a fluke rare good game for him. Let's see some consistency

[Rerisen]

The offense was completely different when McDermott and Rondo were running the 2nd unit. McD was everywhere. Naturally, he excelled the way he used to at Creighton. When he was on the floor with the first unit, he looks like the last person they'll ever pass the ball to. I don't think it's McD. I think it's the mindset of the first unit, and offensive strategy. Butler, MCW and even Wade completely waste McD. Or is it Fred?

A player like Doug is going to end up in a spot up role when on the floor with multiple big time ball handlers, he has to learn to excel in that role and how to get open, he can't think the offense will revolve around him when those players are on the floor.

It's like saying why didn't the Heat run a bunch of plays and 'look for' Mike Miller when he played with LeBron and Wade on the Heatles. Of course they didn't. But Miller still knew how to knock down his open shots and have elite efficiency.

Doug can't seem to 'downsize' his role like that, he doesn't understand how to be a lesser volume option player yet. But yet he isn't good enough to be fed the ball like last night, because last night was a rare super hot night for him.

Every players have such nights, Nate used to go off for 25 or 30 on occasion that doesn't mean Nate could be Derrick Rose if you just let him shoot a ton every night. Nor can Doug to this every night, which is usually where the error happens in rating Doug. That everytime he has a big night, its other players fault that he doesn't do that every night, which is just ridiculous way of looking at.

Doug came out far more aggressive than usual, running hard around his screens, calling for the ball, cutting, posting up mismatches with gusto, not standing around. It's on him to do those things more often. And so long as Rondo is on the 2nd unit, he should get the ball plenty when he does. When he plays with the main unit, he needs to be a great spacer, and most of all, be ready to shoot!

[Stratmaster]

Lopez had a sweet assist of his face. Even better was the solid Simpsons reference.

Read on Twitter

I was at the game last night and from my angle and view I didn't even catch that the ball went off his face. It happened so quickly it just seemed like a touch pass. Didn't even realize it happened until I saw the reference to it in this thread.

Sometimes TV can be a better view of the game. Either that, or I was already on the 7th free beer.

[Rerisen]

Another thought, does this team miss Niko at all?

The moment Taj starts hitting his 3s (even just the corner ones), good bye Niko.

That is a new wrinkle Fred has introduced.

Bulls could be encouraging Taj to shoot the 3, to decide who to keep at the end of the year.

And surely Taj realizes as he gets older, adding a 3pt shot would be a great way to extend his worth in this league.

[Stratmaster]

The offense was completely different when McDermott and Rondo were running the 2nd unit. McD was everywhere. Naturally, he excelled the way he used to at Creighton. When he was on the floor with the first unit, he looks like the last person they'll ever pass the ball to. I don't think it's McD. I think it's the mindset of the first unit, and offensive strategy. Butler, MCW and even Wade completely waste McD. Or is it Fred?

A player like Doug is going to end up in a spot up role when on the floor with multiple big time ball handlers, he has to learn to excel in that role and how to get open, he can't think the offense will revolve around him when those players are on the floor.

It's like saying why didn't the Heat run a bunch of plays and 'look for' Mike Miller when he played with LeBron and Wade on the Heatles. Of course they didn't. But Miller still knew how to knock down his open shots and have elite efficiency.

Doug can't seem to 'downsize' his role like that, he doesn't understand how to be a lesser volume option player yet. But yet he isn't good enough to be fed the ball like last night, because last night was a rare super hot night for him.

Every players have such nights, Nate used to go off for 25 or 30 on occasion that doesn't mean Nate could be Derrick Rose if you just let him shoot a ton every night. Nor can Doug to this every night, which is usually where the error happens in rating Doug. That everytime he has a big night, its other players fault that he doesn't do that every night, which is just ridiculous way of looking at.

Doug came out far more aggressive than usual, running hard around his screens, calling for the ball, cutting, posting up mismatches with gusto, not standing around. It's on him to do those things more often. And so long as Rondo is on the 2nd unit, he should get the ball plenty when he does. When he plays with the main unit, he needs to be a great spacer, and most of all, be ready to shoot!

Doug is going to be a bench player, and there have been all kinds of bench scorers who weren't just spot up shooters. He just doesn't fit next to Wade and Butler. If they can't find a way to use him, they just need to trade him.

If his job with Wade and Butler is simply to space the floor and be ready to shoot, then we shouldn't be complaining when he just stands in the corner and only gets a couple of shots off . Butler isn't going to be driving and kicking to 3 point shooters very often the way he can draw fouls (and he shouldn't). The other teams aren't leaving Doug alone, and when the defense feels the need to stick to the spacer, the spacer isn't going to get many looks...but Butler and Wade will.

[R3AL1TY]

When Lopez blocked that fastbreak dunk, it just felt like the Bulls will not lose. This game also felt like a classic grind it out Bulls game, but with more offense. Hopefully, McD stays consistent with the scoring. His 3 pt % increased to 35%. I would like his Advance PER to increase to 15. It's good to see Rondo being aggressive on offense at times, and MCW attacking the paint. Butler is still the man.

[Betta Bulleavit]

I think you guys are really over complicating Doug's success or lack thereof. When he's been good, the common theme has always been his ability/willingness to cut and post up. When he makes a focused effort to do those two things, the better off he typically is. Often times, it's as if he relegates himself to the sniper role, which tends to limit where his teammates can find him. It's not about Wade, Butler, Rondo or anybody else for that matter. It's about Doug and him recognizing this.

[Rerisen]

Doug is going to be a bench player, and there have been all kinds of bench scorers who weren't just spot up shooters. He just doesn't fit next to Wade and Butler. If they can't find a way to use him, they just need to trade him.

Ultimately, it may come down to this. But if it does, I don't think Doug is going to go somewhere else and be a 1st or 2nd option either, he just isn't consistently good enough, yet I think that is still his ideal mindset. He's not comfortable being a 3rd or 4th option even though that may be where his talent dictates him play at the NBA level outside blue moon nights.

There are tons of players in NBA history, the Tony Delk's, Nick Van Excel's, of the world, that could just heat up a handful of nights every year for 30 or even 50 points, but never became prime options.

If his job with Wade and Butler is simply to space the floor and be ready to shoot, then we shouldn't be complaining when he just stands in the corner and only gets a couple of shots off . Butler isn't going to be driving and kicking to 3 point shooters very often the way he can draw fouls (and he shouldn't). The other teams aren't leaving Doug alone, and when the defense feels the need to stick to the spacer, the spacer isn't going to get many looks...but Butler and Wade will.

Well look, presuming Wade doesn't screw it up, Doug is going to continue to play with Rondo in the 2nd unit, so if Doug starts doing this all the time from the bench, but then in his minutes with the first unit (Butler/Wade) he starts looking like crap, then we'll know we have a major systems issue.

That either Doug cannot conform his playstyle to other major scorers, or that the major scorers are ignoring Doug too much, or Fred isn't calling plays involving him enough.

However if Doug, even playing with Rondo, goes back to being passive, or having nervous nelly type nights where he simply doesn't look ready for NBA speed or however you'd call it, then its definitely on him.

And even if Wade returns and takes the ball a lot in the 2nd unit (Fred would be dumb not to change this) we'll still have more games where Wade has to rest, where worst case, we can see how Doug looks in those games.

But ideally, Fred brings Wade's minutes more in parallel with the 1st unit, and lets Rondo and the kids have a chance to be their own bench mob here for a while. Because that way we should learn a lot.

[Payt10]

I still can't get over that Doug Collin's botched attempt at Jimmy's nickname.

"Jimmy.B.Buckets, the B stands for Buckets!"

[stilldropin20]

.

[stilldropin20]

A player like Doug is going to end up in a spot up role when on the floor with multiple big time ball handlers, he has to learn to excel in that role and how to get open, he can't think the offense will revolve around him when those players are on the floor.

It's like saying why didn't the Heat run a bunch of plays and 'look for' Mike Miller when he played with LeBron and Wade on the Heatles. Of course they didn't. But Miller still knew how to knock down his open shots and have elite efficiency.

Doug can't seem to 'downsize' his role like that, he doesn't understand how to be a lesser volume option player yet. But yet he isn't good enough to be fed the ball like last night, because last night was a rare super hot night for him.

Every players have such nights, Nate used to go off for 25 or 30 on occasion that doesn't mean Nate could be Derrick Rose if you just let him shoot a ton every night. Nor can Doug to this every night, which is usually where the error happens in rating Doug. That everytime he has a big night, its other players fault that he doesn't do that every night, which is just ridiculous way of looking at.

Doug came out far more aggressive than usual, running hard around his screens, calling for the ball, cutting, posting up mismatches with gusto, not standing around. It's on him to do those things more often. And so long as Rondo is on the 2nd unit, he should get the ball plenty when he does. When he plays with the main unit, he needs to be a great spacer, and most of all, be ready to shoot!

Doug is going to be a bench player, and there have been all kinds of bench scorers who weren't just spot up shooters. He just doesn't fit next to Wade and Butler. If they can't find a way to use him, they just need to trade him.

If his job with Wade and Butler is simply to space the floor and be ready to shoot, then we shouldn't be complaining when he just stands in the corner and only gets a couple of shots off . Butler isn't going to be driving and kicking to 3 point shooters very often the way he can draw fouls (and he shouldn't). The other teams aren't leaving Doug alone, and when the defense feels the need to stick to the spacer, the spacer isn't going to get many looks...but Butler and Wade will.

garpax should have known that keeping a low usage 3 and D PG like Moore was the best way to utilize both Jimmy and Doug. could have worked defensively as well as Jimmy and Moore can defend 1-3 and doug could have taken the worst offensive player even a small 4.

if we kept moore, doug might have gotten the looks to "warm up" more often and we might see last nights Doug more often. and last nights doug is better than anything Wade has done this year. But in a limited, spot-up-shooter role, Doug will have trouble succeeding for quite some time playing off of high usage players.

signing 3 and D players cheap is a daunting task. No evidence, but just some mental hurdles should tell you Moore would have resigned with Bulls 2 summers ago for say 3/15M or 4/20-25M. I think Moore was making like vet min or near at the time.Not unlike Jimmy would have signed a 5/60M.

Garpax have been fumbling the resigning of our better players for a while now. either waiting to lose them in free agency to a higher bidder or significantly pay more than what was necessary.

[Stratmaster]

Doug is going to be a bench player, and there have been all kinds of bench scorers who weren't just spot up shooters. He just doesn't fit next to Wade and Butler. If they can't find a way to use him, they just need to trade him.

Ultimately, it may come down to this. But if it does, I don't think Doug is going to go somewhere else and be a 1st or 2nd option either, he just isn't consistently good enough, yet I think that is still his ideal mindset. He's not comfortable being a 3rd or 4th option even though that may be where his talent dictates him play at the NBA level outside blue moon nights.

There are tons of players in NBA history, the Tony Delk's, Nick Van Excel's, of the world, that could just heat up a handful of nights every year for 30 or even 50 points, but never became prime options.

If his job with Wade and Butler is simply to space the floor and be ready to shoot, then we shouldn't be complaining when he just stands in the corner and only gets a couple of shots off . Butler isn't going to be driving and kicking to 3 point shooters very often the way he can draw fouls (and he shouldn't). The other teams aren't leaving Doug alone, and when the defense feels the need to stick to the spacer, the spacer isn't going to get many looks...but Butler and Wade will.

Well look, presuming Wade doesn't screw it up, Doug is going to continue to play with Rondo in the 2nd unit, so if Doug starts doing this all the time from the bench, but then in his minutes with the first unit (Butler/Wade) he starts looking like crap, then we'll know we have a major systems issue.

That either Doug cannot conform his playstyle to other major scorers, or that the major scorers are ignoring Doug too much, or Fred isn't calling plays involving him enough.

However if Doug, even playing with Rondo, goes back to being passive, or having nervous nelly type nights where he simply doesn't look ready for NBA speed or however you'd call it, then its definitely on him.

And even if Wade returns and takes the ball a lot in the 2nd unit (Fred would be dumb not to change this) we'll still have more games where Wade has to rest, where worst case, we can see how Doug looks in those games.

But ideally, Fred brings Wade's minutes more in parallel with the 1st unit, and lets Rondo and the kids have a chance to be their own bench mob here for a while. Because that way we should learn a lot.

I think Doug can be the first scoring option off the bench for a lot of 2nd teams in the league; including our own. I think the Bulls need to make him the go-to guy on the 2nd unit instead of Wade, or Niko, and find out. Not because I am sure he will succeed; just because if I were coach and GM I would want to find out before I decide what to do with or about him.

With Wade and Butler, I don't believe it is as simple as you state. If Doug doesn't score much with the first unit he can still be doing his job of creating space for them. Doug being in the corner helps Wade and Butler get easier access to the lane. OUR expectations (offensively speaking of course) of Doug need to be different when he is on the court with Wade and Butler.

Also, it isn't just Wade with the 2nd unit. Niko changes the mix also. If Niko is launching 3's early in the clock from 3 feet behind the arc that doesn't give McD much chance to move without the ball, position in the post, etc. To be clear, I am not blaming Wade or Niko, but we are talking about player fit. We will see how Niko does with Rondo running the 2nd team.

I agree on Wade's minutes. For a guy who can't play heavy minutes anyway, and now that the "alpha" PG is running the 2nd unit, Wade should play less with the bench guys.

[Rerisen]

If Doug doesn't score much with the first unit he can still be doing his job of creating space for them. Doug being in the corner helps Wade and Butler get easier access to the lane. OUR expectations (offensively speaking of course) of Doug need to be different when he is on the court with Wade and Butler.

In theory, yes this should work even if Doug is having a lesser role. But so far it hasn't, he has looked miserable in these units, often making small mistakes or just not even being ready to shoot when wide open.

While I think a lot has to do with Doug's own confidence, mindset, and role confusion, I also will give him one benefit of the doubt and say not having a more natural passing PG hurts a lot in the first unit. Rondo doesn't solve that because once you put him with Wade and Butler, too many guys need the ball for his style to work.

MCW isn't much better as a vision PG.

However, this is why I said early on in the season Fred should close with non-PG units like Wade/Butler/Doug/Taj/Lopez.

Now you only have 2 playmakers and Doug should be a secondary option all the time whoever has the ball. While when Rondo was in, Wade and Butler became the secondary options and Doug was just a forgotten man.

[HomoSapien]

The moment Taj starts hitting his 3s (even just the corner ones), good bye Niko.

That is a new wrinkle Fred has introduced.

Bulls could be encouraging Taj to shoot the 3, to decide who to keep at the end of the year.

And surely Taj realizes as he gets older, adding a 3pt shot would be a great way to extend his worth in this league.

Don't forget that Taj has been working on it for years over the off-season. Back then it used to seem like a gigantic waste of time. With the way the game's changed in the last 6+ years, he's starting to look really smart.