Are we done with shooting threes?

[dougthonus]

Will say as an addendum, it's fine to shoot more threes, but only to the extent that they are good shots by good shooters who feel comfortable with them. Trying to get DeMar to launch more threes was dumb. Getting more threes organically because Craig/Carter shoot more than their replacements at a good clip would be fine.

Some actions that generate more looks for Zach from three would also be fine. If Ayo comes back this year as good shooter and takes more then great. Same with Caruso.

However, just bombing away for the sake of bombing away is a losing proposition.

[MrSparkle]

Coby shot over 35% on around 6 attempts his first 2 years, which is OK for a guy shooting off-the-dribble. I think he should be hoisting atleast 1 more attempt, to his current average (5). Also feel like he's confidence-based/streaky; it's been a long time, but rookie Coby had some waterfall nights.

Pat is completely lost RN, but assuming he wakes up out of his misery, I still think he should average 5+ 3PAs. I don't think he brings any real value to the offense when he dribbles, although he does seem to make exactly 1 nice fadeaway/post/drive at the beginning of every game, before mentally checking out.

Vuc's at a career-low (besides his DNP Phi days) 3PAs after 4 games. He can lay some bricks, but he was around 35% last year on 4+ attempts. His 2 best seasons he was at 6+ on 40%+. I'm not expecting that anymore, but ... It seems strange that the older a skill-based player gets, the worse his shot gets.

The only guy who shouldn't be shooting more 3Ps is Demar, although I think a few open takes from him are OK. Certainly don't want him forcing them, or making it appear like we're counting on him to space the floor.

This team seems to have a real problem with executing a balanced game plan. I mean, they go into pre-season averaging less attempts than last year, after announcing a new shooting profile, offense, etc. Then the first real game, with stakes, they chuck around a league high 42 (while missing a league high amount of them), which was a completely wild swing.

Ironically, they did win the game where they went 8-39, but only cause the Raptors are just as allergic to shooting basketballs.

They should strive to settle around 34 attempts a game. Like I said, primarily you want guys like Vuc/Pat/Coby/Jevon to take enough shots to be regular spacing threats. Don't really need to tell Demar and Zach to force those shots, cause they last thing they should be told is to to shoot more of anything, but you would like to see more sets for Zach to get open looks. I trust Craig and Caruso to decide what's a good 3P look for them.

[drosestruts]

Shooting just to shoot is dumb.

It was dum to try and play Hoiball with a roster of Rondo, Jimmy, and Wade

And it's dumb to pretend to be someone we're not with a roster of DeRozan and Vuc.

I agree with Doug that new players like Carter and Craig and an increased role for a guy like Coby White should organically increase our 3PA and an organic increase is fine.

DeRozan had good efficiency last season - why should he change?

[Stratmaster]

We have lost our way with the focus on three point shooting

Last season the Bulls were on average per game

10.4 makes tied for last in the league
28.9 attempts last in the league


The best team only averaged per game

16 makes
43 attempts

and that was the Warriors with Curry and Klay

Why would we suddenly try and be the Warriors ?

We only needed to get to the middle of the pack the league average was

12 makes
34 attempts

somehow we have got it twisted that we needed to shoot 40+ a game and it doesn't make any sense .

Last year the Bulls were

tied for 5th in ft%
#26 in fta
#22 in ftm


so there is a case that can be made that in the long run that if the Bulls can get from the bottom 3rd of the league to the middle of the pack in those categories while keeping the same defensive success than our offense will overall be greatly improved .

Last night we had over 50 points in the paint and got to the line over 30 times and shot 83.9 but to me thats just as big for this team as making 18+ threes would be and far more easily obtainable with the current roster.

Good points. And it might be 3 pointers 1 game and free throws the next game depending on matchups and who has the hot hand.

[Stratmaster]

Unfortunately the answer doesn’t really matter.

Why?

[League Circles]

I think we are done trying to get above league average attempts per game and will instead focus on quality attempts and what our players are good at.

Way too much was made about threes last year and not nearly enough about offensive rebounds and lack of transition attempts. Both of those factors had a greater impact on offensive efficiency than three point rate given our three point shots were not more efficient than our other looks.

Agreed. I thought offensive rebounding was a huge issue.

For sure. Especially because our shooting efficiency wasn't even a problem. Pretty sure we were like 11th in both eFG% and TS%. Our problem was absolutely being terrible at offensive rebounds and probably, though it's more difficult to isolate, not going to the line. NBA stats are really bad at correctly identifying what I'd consider a "possession" in various metrics.

[kodo]

Some of the low Pacers attempts wasn't just due to how we play, our plays created some wide open 3s...our PGs didn't see them.

We ran a standard P&R here, they switched, with their PG on our center they had to throw help. Pretty standard situation to get an open 3. Lavine is so wide open in the corner. Ball never got to him.

Spoiler:

[FriedRise]

Some of the low Pacers attempts wasn't just due to how we play, our plays created some wide open 3s...our PGs didn't see them.

We ran a standard P&R here, they switched, with their PG on our center they had to throw help. Pretty standard situation to get an open 3. Lavine is so wide open in the corner. Ball never got to him.

Spoiler:

Ball would never!

[Wingy]

Unfortunately the answer doesn’t really matter.

Why?

Honestly, I read the options at varying, separate times. Thought about our roster, and came away after each glimpse thinking - this does not compute.

The roster is just incongruent with the goals one would and should actually want. It all just doesn’t make sense together and points to AK being doo doo at his job.

I guess I can’t endorse any of the well intended poll options, but will go with those that say we should seek an incremental improvement getting 3PAs to the guys that have the ability.

[bad knees]

The bigger question is: who came up with the plan to tell Zach and Coby to drive and kick, told Vuc to reduce his 3 pt attempts, and then told everyone else to shoot from 3 whenever they had the slightest opening? Unfortunately, I think we all know the answer, and it's a pretty depressing conclusion. Such a dumb strategy.

[DropStep]

Update post Game 5:

3 pts attempted:
Game 1 - 42, Loss
Game 2 - 39, Win
Game 3 - 28, Loss
Game 4 - 17, Win
Game 5 - 33, Loss

[MikeDC]

Never copy trends. Do what beat suits your personnel, period.

The Bulls are going to leave the NBA and play in China next year?!?

[MikeDC]

You guys always call yourselves dumb and reactionary as fans, but this is the first time I recall a team being just as dumb and reactionary. They spend the whole offseason trying to do something, and 30 minutes into the season, they **** it to play to their "strengths" of letting Vuc power them to a vintage Orlando Magic style offense.

Were you guys watching the other side of the court? How fast would you guys, and the mid-3 have puckered up if DJJ had shot 9 threes for the Bulls? They wouldn't have let him back on the team bus!

This isn't to completely let guys like Pat and Coby off the hook, but they must be tight as hell knowing that if they did that, they'd be run out of town on a rail.

[Dez]

It's been 5 games.......

[kodo]

Catch & Shoot 3P%
Nets: 43.3%
OKC: 41.2%
Mavs: 40.8%
Pistons: 40.1%

Bucks, GSW, Sixers: 39.7%
Phoenix, Spurs, Hawks, Celtics: ~37%

Chicago: 32.1%

Early evidence is pointing towards shooting more 3s is just worse for us.
The irony is we have some great 3P% shooters on the team, we just don't play them. Ayo, Carter, Craig (All > 40%).

[Wingy]

Speaking of shooting.

I’ve seen no one being up Peter Patton in months.

We get a shooting coach finally and just lay insane bricks to start the season.

Fire AK. Fire ME. Fire PP.

[DropStep]

Update after 10% of the season: After all the talk, the changes are marginal so far - we're up a little in attempts, down a little in accuracy vs. last year. Although, our percentage is dragged down because we started cold - we were under 25% after the first two games, but we've shot almost 39% in the six games since then, including our outlier Utah game. We shot 35% in games 3-7, which seems about right.

- 3pt Attempts: Ranked 25th in the league in with 30.9 per game, up from 30th ranked @ 28.8 per game last year.
- 3pt %: Ranked 21st in the league at 34%, down from 16th ranked @ 35.9% last season.

The large swings in 3pa in the first four games (high of 42, low of 17) seemed to have settled more closely around the 30 mark in the next 4 games (high 34, low 26):

Game 1 W DAL - 12-42, 29%
Game 2 W TOR - 8-39, 21%
Game 3 L @DET - 11-28, 39%
Game 4 W @IND - 6-17, 35%
Game 5 L @DAL - 11-33, 33%
Game 6 L BKN - 11-28 39%
Game 7 L @DEN- 7/26 27%
Game 8 W UTA 18/34 53%

Maybe it's achievable to creep out of the bottom third of the league in 3PA (~33 per game) at middle of the pack 3p% (35%+), at which point I'd feel less like we were a dinosaur staring at a growing black dot in the sky.

[meekrab]

Update after 10% of the season: After all the talk, the changes are marginal so far - we're up a little in attempts, down a little in accuracy vs. last year. Although, our percentage is dragged down because we started cold - we were under 25% in the first two games, but we've shot almost 39% in the six games since then, including our outlier Utah game. We shot 35% in games 3-7, which seems about right.

Accuracy numbers for our highest volume 3 point shooters are absolutely awful...

Zach 32%
Coby 29%
PWill 22%

All of these guys are 37%+ career shooters and they've been laying bricks to start the season; Vuc is shooting well under his career mark as well. Ayo and Carter have been hot but even combined they have less attempts than Coby, and if you add Craig in those three have less attempts than Zach.

A little reversion towards career numbers as guys settle into the new offense should have things looking a lot better.

[Chi town]

Unfortunately the answer doesn’t really matter.

Why?

Honestly, I read the options at varying, separate times. Thought about our roster, and came away after each glimpse thinking - this does not compute.

The roster is just incongruent with the goals one would and should actually want. It all just doesn’t make sense together and points to AK being doo doo at his job.

I guess I can’t endorse any of the well intended poll options, but will go with those that say we should seek an incremental improvement getting 3PAs to the guys that have the ability.

Zach made an off handed comment during preseason that we are looking to shoot more 3s even though we don’t really have shooters.

It’s obvious to us these guys don’t believe in the game plan or the construction of the roster.

What’s even worse is Zach sees himself as a scorer instead of a shooter. Lowers his ceiling considerably. He could be top 5 shooter if he went all in. He should shooting 10-12 3s per game.

[chitownsports4ever]

Update after 10% of the season: After all the talk, the changes are marginal so far - we're up a little in attempts, down a little in accuracy vs. last year. Although, our percentage is dragged down because we started cold - we were under 25% in the first two games, but we've shot almost 39% in the six games since then, including our outlier Utah game. We shot 35% in games 3-7, which seems about right.

- 3pt Attempts: Ranked 25th in the league in with 30.9 per game, up from 30th ranked @ 28.8 per game last year.
- 3pt %: Ranked 21st in the league at 34%, down from 16th ranked @ 35.9% last season.

The large swings in 3pa in the first four games (high of 42, low of 17) seemed to have settled more closely around the 30 mark in the next 4 games (high 34, low 26):

Game 1 W DAL - 12-42, 29%
Game 2 W TOR - 8-39, 21%
Game 3 L @DET - 11-28, 39%
Game 4 W @IND - 6-17, 35%
Game 5 L @DAL - 11-33, 33%
Game 6 L BKN - 11-28 39%
Game 7 L @DEN- 7/26 27%
Game 8 W UTA 18/34 53%

Maybe it's achievable to creep get into the top 2/3 of the league in 3PA (~33 per game) at middle of the pack 3p% (35%+), at which point I'd feel less like we were a dinosaur staring at a growing black dot in the sky.

We were last in threes and bottom 5 in fta last season moving up past the league average in both while keeping our midrange potency. I don't know why expectations somehow became we should go from worst to first in 4 months