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OT: Cubs Offseason Thread

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Re: OT: Cubs Offseason Thread 

Post#61 » by Kurt Heimlich » Sun Feb 25, 2024 6:57 pm

MAQ wrote:
Evil_Headband wrote:Two player options on the deal so we might go through this again next year.

Only way this doesn't happen again next year is if he has an extremely down year. Either way, we lose.


Belli having another big year isn't a loss. KB and Javy's 6/7 year deals are big time losses for their franchises. Short term deal with options limits the "Anthony Rendon" risk and keeps a player motivated to earn more money instead of collecting checks for the next 6+ years.

Seems like a win/win deal for both parties, even though Belli/Boras almost certainly had dreams of bigger guaranteed money. Belli proves last year wasn't a fluke and they can try again next year and the Cubs got another great year of performance for it.
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Re: OT: Cubs Offseason Thread 

Post#62 » by Dresden » Sun Feb 25, 2024 6:57 pm

SalmonsSuperfan wrote:
Jeffster81 wrote:
SalmonsSuperfan wrote:Dodgers are signing Yoshinobu Yamamoto to a 12 year, $325 million contract. That's over $1billion spent in the past week on just two players, one of whom has never even played in the MLB!
Athletes' salaries are completely out of control. There's hardly a better analogy for the massive income inequality and growing gap between 'us' and 'them' than professional sports.


Tell fans to stop going to games.

why should people stop enjoying sports and a day out at a game?

how about:
-television networks stop showing so many advertisements
-baseball teams don't charge so much for tickets (stop building new ballparks with fewer seats but far more luxury suites to lower ticket supply, increasing prices for regular seats, and ultimately to provide for a wealthier clientele)
-more generally, baseball teams stop doing real estate development ventures like building condos and offices and other yuppie 'amenities' (every ballpark since 1992).
-baseball teams stop shoving gambling, cryptocurrency, alcohol etc. down people's throats to make a quick buck
-MLB institutes a salary cap and maximum contracts. in what other American league does a rookie sign a $325mil contract with a $50mil signing bonus? what other league has a payroll differential of $280mil ($342mil and $62mil) between the highest and lowest teams? imagine if an NBA team signed 3 players to maximum contracts in one offseason, adding to a team that already had 2 max players, and was still in the hunt to add one more near max contract (Josh Hader).

the amount of money generated by professional sports that has absolutely nothing to do with the sport is absurd and should be regulated. ticket sales is roughly 30% of revenue generated, a higher share than both NBA and NFL, but ultimately not the issue (besides luxury suites).
fans aren't the problem, market economics is. this just shows people that the market does not actually distribute resources efficiently like some people imagine it does. and fans aren't the problem that the league has absolutely no financial parity and that parity only exists in baseball because the playoffs are a crapshoot, each series is more influenced by randomness than anything else (unlike the NBA) which is why it takes 162 games to build a reasonable sample size.

it's frankly absurd and reflects poorly on American society. it's a perfect analogy for inequality. LA County has 75,000 homeless people, home prices in Compton and South Central (the so-called 'hood') are upward of $700,000, working class people must live in San Bernardino and commute for hours a day to Chavez Ravine or Santa Monica to service wealthy people's consumption habits.


I hate to say it but free agency also has been one of the main reasons there is so much inequality in American sports between the have teams and the have nots. Of course it was unfair before FA that a player had to just accept what a team would give him or not play. But as soon as players could be purchased on the open market, it immediately gave the rich teams a big advantage.

I don't know a better system, maybe some sort of salary cap like in football is the way to go. Or maybe limit how much teams can spend in free agency, so that they can only afford one huge offseason addition per year. Once you've used that up, you're out of the market for a year or two, except to sign your own players.

The only justice in the Dodger situation is that they let go Cory Seager and Belli, and both are having great careers now. Imagine if the Dodgers had both those two back?
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Re: OT: Cubs Offseason Thread 

Post#63 » by Dresden » Sun Feb 25, 2024 7:02 pm

Kurt Heimlich wrote:
MAQ wrote:
Evil_Headband wrote:Two player options on the deal so we might go through this again next year.

Only way this doesn't happen again next year is if he has an extremely down year. Either way, we lose.


Belli having another big year isn't a loss. KB and Javy's 6/7 year deals are big time losses for their franchises. Short term deal with options limits the "Anthony Rendon" risk and keeps a player motivated to earn more money instead of collecting checks for the next 6+ years.

Seems like a win/win deal for both parties, even though Belli/Boras almost certainly had dreams of bigger guaranteed money. Belli proves last year wasn't a fluke and they can try again next year and the Cubs got another great year of performance for it.


Yeah, it's weird how so many of the Cubs promising young players that helped them win the series in '16 have flamed out. Bryant and Javy are really bad contracts now. Schwarber hits a ton of homers, but he struggles to hit .200. Interestingly, Jorge Soler has had a pretty decent career, and just signed a pretty big deal with SF. And of course there's Addison Russell. So much promise for that core back then, and so many under-achieving years since then.
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Re: OT: Cubs Offseason Thread 

Post#64 » by Kurt Heimlich » Sun Feb 25, 2024 7:23 pm

Dresden wrote:
Kurt Heimlich wrote:
MAQ wrote:Only way this doesn't happen again next year is if he has an extremely down year. Either way, we lose.


Belli having another big year isn't a loss. KB and Javy's 6/7 year deals are big time losses for their franchises. Short term deal with options limits the "Anthony Rendon" risk and keeps a player motivated to earn more money instead of collecting checks for the next 6+ years.

Seems like a win/win deal for both parties, even though Belli/Boras almost certainly had dreams of bigger guaranteed money. Belli proves last year wasn't a fluke and they can try again next year and the Cubs got another great year of performance for it.


Yeah, it's weird how so many of the Cubs promising young players that helped them win the series in '16 have flamed out. Bryant and Javy are really bad contracts now. Schwarber hits a ton of homers, but he struggles to hit .200. Interestingly, Jorge Soler has had a pretty decent career, and just signed a pretty big deal with SF. And of course there's Addison Russell. So much promise for that core back then, and so many under-achieving years since then.


Schwarber's production is something to behold isn't it? Basically homers as often as he singles. Hits below the Mendoza line while leading the league in strikeouts. Yet still has a .800+ OPS and received MVP votes lol. Has there ever been a better comp for a guy than Adam Dunn for Kyle Schwarber? As much as we all will always love that 2016 team (and 2015-2019ish "core"), we gotta give Epstein/Hoyer credit for avoiding some of those time bombs (and even getting a high end prospect like PCA for Javy).
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Re: OT: Cubs Offseason Thread 

Post#65 » by SalmonsSuperfan » Mon Mar 25, 2024 7:29 pm

Not sure where I'd post this because I don't think it deserves its own thread on a Bulls basketball forum, but who else is paying attention to this dealio with Shohei Ohtani and his interpreter? Ohtani's bank account transferred 4.5 million dollars to an illegal bookmaker, ostensibly to pay off the interpreter's debt. Common logic might think that Ohtani was just helping out his buddy, perhaps he was ignorant to the fact that gambling is still illegal in California. Ohtani's representatives have told conflicting stories; one said that he was just helping out his buddy while his lawyer says it was "massive theft." Ohtani better hope it's massive theft because he could be charged with a slurry of federal crimes, the IRS tends to frown upon illegal payments in the millions of dollars that don't get reported to them. that might constitute fraud.

Anyway, I think it's relevant to basketball fans because anyone with two brain cells can see the writing on the wall regarding this turn toward gambling. Maybe leagues will reassess their policies if the biggest star in sports goes down for it. Very unlikely, team owners are some of the greediest and most unethical people on the planet. Maybe we as citizens lobby our federal government to create laws to reign this in and make up for the idiocy of the Trump supreme court that made this decision.
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Re: OT: Cubs Offseason Thread 

Post#66 » by DropStep » Mon Mar 25, 2024 11:45 pm

SalmonsSuperfan wrote:Not sure where I'd post this because I don't think it deserves its own thread on a Bulls basketball forum, but who else is paying attention to this dealio with Shohei Ohtani and his interpreter? Ohtani's bank account transferred 4.5 million dollars to an illegal bookmaker, ostensibly to pay off the interpreter's debt. Common logic might think that Ohtani was just helping out his buddy, perhaps he was ignorant to the fact that gambling is still illegal in California. Ohtani's representatives have told conflicting stories; one said that he was just helping out his buddy while his lawyer says it was "massive theft." Ohtani better hope it's massive theft because he could be charged with a slurry of federal crimes, the IRS tends to frown upon illegal payments in the millions of dollars that don't get reported to them. that might constitute fraud.

Anyway, I think it's relevant to basketball fans because anyone with two brain cells can see the writing on the wall regarding this turn toward gambling. Maybe leagues will reassess their policies if the biggest star in sports goes down for it. Very unlikely, team owners are some of the greediest and most unethical people on the planet. Maybe we as citizens lobby our federal government to create laws to reign this in and make up for the idiocy of the Trump supreme court that made this decision.


OK, I'll play, because I've been thinking about it. Ohtani is saying he had nothing to do with it now, the guy just stole from him. I only see three options:

1) The interpreter guy was telling the truth in the first interview with ESPN, and Ohtani voluntarily paid all that money to satisfy his friend's debts (a very close friend, I would imagine, for that amount). This means everyone is lying now to keep Ohtani's relationship with the league and his fans intact, which is probably the worst thing they could do, and his friend is taking the fall for him, including a possible jail sentence. Almost all of Ohtani's salary is deferred, so 4.5 million is a lot to him, but he is also one of the most popular athletes in the world and likely makes so much off the field that he could float it easily.

2) They are both telling the truth now. Either the interpreter gambled with his own substantial salary, the numbers got bigger, and it spiraled out of control, or, he realized he had access to all Ohtani's money and thought - I bet I can break even and nobody will ever know. Either way, it means Ohtani had either given his friend access to his multimillion dollar bank account, which is odd, but not that totally crazy I guess if the guy was more like his assistant than an interpreter. Or, his friend hacked him, found his password, etc., and sent the bookie Ohtani's money to cover his debts, thinking he would somehow get away with it. I would think Ohtani would have to be completely out to lunch and have no financial team for this to happen, as well as there being what, 100 million in the account so it wasn't immediately obvious? It would also help camouflage it if Ohtani sends out huge, weird checks regularly, or had the interpreter do it. Or, maybe the interpreter was just desperate and delusional and did it even though there was no way he would get away with it, which, panicked people do things like that sometimes. But this guy has done at least two really nutty things if this is true.

3) Ohtani was betting on sports, and his friend is now taking the fall.

I guess I believe what they are saying now and it's #2, but then none of those seem totally right. If it is #2, it appears Ohtani had no idea this had happened until the Feds followed the breadcrumbs back from the bookie and wanted to talk to him. That, along with the fact that the interpreter only got fired a few days ago, makes me wonder if it was all very recent, but then it seems like quite a coincidence that the guy sends the money and the feds are randomly on the doorstep almost immediately, coming at it from the whole other direction, and the whole story takes place in a week or whatever.

If it is in fact #2, given the guy's actions, I'd think there had to be severe duress from the bookie on the interpreter and/or Ohtani that will probably come out, imo, if not outright blackmail, especially if the only time he ever stole his money was for this one gambling debt, and not for anything else. It seems like it would have to be an, uh, acute situation to drive him to that.

There's a lot that doesn't quite track for me. Like, the guy lied throughout a whole interview with ESPN. Why? Had the team concocted a whole story together that then immediately fell apart? Did he think he could just spin this whole tale and nobody from Ohtani's team would contradict him and everything would be fine? Did Ohtani's team really have no idea what he was going to say when they put him in front of ESPN? If he had stolen from them, why are they putting him out there? They hadn't even fired him yet. Why is that? They had to have asked him, "so, what about that 5 mill?" at that point. What had he told them that made them put him in front of a mic and not in jail? Was Ohtani considering keeping him on, even after he knew about the theft? And how did he get a $5 million credit line with a bookie? Is Ohtani's name in some box on a website or a piece of paper really enough, with no personal relationship?

I wonder if Ohtani is familiar with how American media, even in its current desiccated state, latches onto a juicy story.

Despite this long post, I haven't actually been following this all that closely, just thinking about it, so please correct me if I'm off base, so to speak.
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Re: OT: Cubs Offseason Thread 

Post#67 » by DropStep » Tue Mar 26, 2024 3:08 am

Some of the questions above are addressed here, somewhat. https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/39808874/ohtani-adamant-never-betting-sports-says-interpreter-stole-money

Apparently the interpreter was sending payments of $500K for several months and it wasn't caught. Also, it implies nobody but the interpreter knew he was talking to ESPN to lie and say Ohtani sent the payments on his behalf, which is odd because I could swear that I read somewhere that the Ohtani team offered him up. Given that ESPN has a huge part to play in this, maybe I should be reading coverage by somebody else on this thing. Anyway, it also says Ohtani was late to understanding what was going on even after the interpreter spoke to the team and kind of fessed up, because he was speaking in English.

This is bizarre. Seems like he needs his business/management team looking after his interests a little more. It looks like it wasn't until a law firm got wind of it that there was any sort of proper handling, accountability or messaging around anything to do with this mess. It also seems like the third base coach may have heard about it in the team meeting before Ohtani or his management. Ohtani being a stranger in a strange land seems to have a big part to play in this. Cautionary tale, I guess.
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Re: OT: Cubs Offseason Thread 

Post#68 » by SalmonsSuperfan » Tue Mar 26, 2024 4:32 am

DropStep wrote:Some of the questions above are addressed here, somewhat. https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/39808874/ohtani-adamant-never-betting-sports-says-interpreter-stole-money

Apparently the interpreter was sending payments of $500K for several months and it wasn't caught. Also, it implies nobody but the interpreter knew he was talking to ESPN to lie and say Ohtani sent the payments on his behalf, which is odd because I could swear that I read somewhere that the Ohtani team offered him up. Given that ESPN has a huge part to play in this, maybe I should be reading coverage by somebody else on this thing. Anyway, it also says Ohtani was late to understanding what was going on even after the interpreter spoke to the team and kind of fessed up, because he was speaking in English.

This is bizarre. Seems like he needs his business/management team looking after his interests a little more. It looks like it wasn't until a law firm got wind of it that there was any sort of proper handling, accountability or messaging around anything to do with this mess. It also seems like the third base coach may have heard about it in the team meeting before Ohtani or his management. Ohtani being a stranger in a strange land seems to have a big part to play in this. Cautionary tale, I guess.

You did read that which is why this story takes on another interesting dimension...his lawyers' story totally contradicted what Mizuhara and Ohtani's "representative" (I don't know what a "representative" is...agent?) told ESPN, that Ohtani gave him money to pay off his gambling debt.

That seems like the likeliest story to me, that they were friends and Ohtani didn't realize he could be implicated in a crime. Maybe he thought it was a legal bookie without realizing that gambling is still illegal in California. Of course, if he knowingly transferred this money to the bookie, he could be guilty of a crime. So my theory is that everyone has agreed to the "massive theft" story including Mizuhara because then Ohtani isn't in trouble, he's merely a victim. I think if I'm Mizuhara in this case, I'd probably fall on my sword because it's ultimately my fault and my friend tried to bail me out and implicated himself in the process. I really don't believe the "massive theft" story, how do you not notice that amount of money going missing from your bank account? wouldn't such a high amount be automatically flagged? I just can't logically see how the interpreter could steal $4.5million and nobody would be the wiser. This guy signed a 700million dollar contract, I'm sure he has an accountant. This story doesn't seem like it will stand up to scrutiny. But it's in nobody's interest to see Ohtani go down, I don't think the feds are investigating him (yet), and why would the MLB want to punish their cashcow golden boy?

My greater concern is that this sort of thing will probably become very commonplace in sports. The leagues have decided that feeding into addictions and creating new addicts is an essential component of ball games and I think it's only a matter of time before this totally blows up. Worst case scenario as I imagine it as that a fan loses big and decides to murder a player for having a bad game. Maybe a scandal in a low tier college conference where non-NIL kids are throwing games. or in the hockey/baseball minor leagues where most of the guys make practically nothing. I don't think you'll see players in the major professional leagues throwing games, they make too much money. I think pro referees tend to make high enough wages that they might think twice about it too, but there's precedent for it in the NBA regardless.

So I hope some of the attention on this story is to criticize the MLB/other leagues for creating the environment where things like this are definitely going to happen. I hope we can make laws as a country to restrict it, but there's certainly no willpower. everyone is making money hand over fist from business to government; except the common man actually partaking in the gambling.
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Re: OT: Cubs Offseason Thread 

Post#69 » by Chi town » Tue Mar 26, 2024 4:37 am

In other news…

I like this team. Think we make the playoffs this year. Also expect to get a boost from the minors.

Put me on record that I don’t think PCA will ever be great because he won’t be able to hit. I think Horton is an ace though.
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Re: OT: Cubs Offseason Thread 

Post#70 » by SalmonsSuperfan » Tue Mar 26, 2024 4:50 am

Chi town wrote:In other news…

I like this team. Think we make the playoffs this year. Also expect to get a boost from the minors.

Put me on record that I don’t think PCA will ever be great because he won’t be able to hit. I think Horton is an ace though.

This thread was on the 4th page, should I have made another thread about baseball or keep off topic content consolidated in one place? probably this story is of interest to Cubs fans, I would imagine, and I was curious what RealGMers were thinking. sue me. actually, you're posting in this thread because I bumped it, you should be thanking me!

The Cubbies do have a nice team though, probably much improved if Imanaga is better than I think he is and he doesn't give up 2 homers a game. Should be an easy division to win and they have a deep farm if they want to improve the roster further. I think PCA is the most overrated prospect in the sport. his range in center field is exceptional but he simply can't hit major league pitching. looks like he'll start the year off in AAA where he'll hit .900 OPS and get called up and not record a single hit.
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Re: OT: Cubs Offseason Thread 

Post#71 » by Chi town » Tue Mar 26, 2024 3:08 pm

SalmonsSuperfan wrote:
Chi town wrote:In other news…

I like this team. Think we make the playoffs this year. Also expect to get a boost from the minors.

Put me on record that I don’t think PCA will ever be great because he won’t be able to hit. I think Horton is an ace though.

This thread was on the 4th page, should I have made another thread about baseball or keep off topic content consolidated in one place? probably this story is of interest to Cubs fans, I would imagine, and I was curious what RealGMers were thinking. sue me. actually, you're posting in this thread because I bumped it, you should be thanking me!

The Cubbies do have a nice team though, probably much improved if Imanaga is better than I think he is and he doesn't give up 2 homers a game. Should be an easy division to win and they have a deep farm if they want to improve the roster further. I think PCA is the most overrated prospect in the sport. his range in center field is exceptional but he simply can't hit major league pitching. looks like he'll start the year off in AAA where he'll hit .900 OPS and get called up and not record a single hit.


Thanking you! :)

Totally agree on PCA. I think Shaw is the good though.
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Re: OT: Cubs Offseason Thread 

Post#72 » by SalmonsSuperfan » Tue Mar 26, 2024 10:47 pm

Chi town wrote:
SalmonsSuperfan wrote:
Chi town wrote:In other news…

I like this team. Think we make the playoffs this year. Also expect to get a boost from the minors.

Put me on record that I don’t think PCA will ever be great because he won’t be able to hit. I think Horton is an ace though.

This thread was on the 4th page, should I have made another thread about baseball or keep off topic content consolidated in one place? probably this story is of interest to Cubs fans, I would imagine, and I was curious what RealGMers were thinking. sue me. actually, you're posting in this thread because I bumped it, you should be thanking me!

The Cubbies do have a nice team though, probably much improved if Imanaga is better than I think he is and he doesn't give up 2 homers a game. Should be an easy division to win and they have a deep farm if they want to improve the roster further. I think PCA is the most overrated prospect in the sport. his range in center field is exceptional but he simply can't hit major league pitching. looks like he'll start the year off in AAA where he'll hit .900 OPS and get called up and not record a single hit.


Thanking you! :)

Totally agree on PCA. I think Shaw is the good though.

I hate rooting for the Cubs but, man, I want at least one of our teams to be good this year...I think this is the worst era in Chicago sports ever and the Bears and Hawks are on the come up but not there yet...so I'll probably be secretly watching some games :D
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Re: OT: Cubs Offseason Thread 

Post#73 » by Chi town » Tue Apr 2, 2024 12:00 am

Shōta looked like the sh*t today!

Wicks looked good too. Defense failed him.

We could be legit with Steele Wicks Shōta and Horton ready soon.

More sure can hit but his 3B defense looks like he will be our DH moving fwd. Shaw will probably be our 3B
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Re: OT: Cubs Offseason Thread 

Post#74 » by Dresden » Tue Apr 2, 2024 1:34 am

Good outing today by the new guy. Starting pitching looks solid. Hitting worries me, but hopefully they have some young guys in the system that will supply that at some point. I saw that they're favored to win the division, although it's a weak one.
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Re: OT: Cubs Offseason Thread 

Post#75 » by Chi town » Sat Apr 6, 2024 6:08 pm

Cubs are fun.

Love seeing them take it to the Dodgers.

I think we have the pitching to make some noise in the playoffs with Steele, Shota, and soon to be Horton.
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Re: OT: Cubs Offseason Thread 

Post#76 » by Dresden » Sun Apr 7, 2024 11:11 pm

Cubs about to take 2 of 3 from the Dodgers. Back to back shut outs for Shota, altho only 4 innings today. That's 6 of 7 now after 2 opening losses. They're really hitting, I hope that keeps up.
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Re: OT: Cubs Offseason Thread 

Post#77 » by Kurt Heimlich » Sun Apr 7, 2024 11:27 pm

The Bears are the most fun to dream about and the Hawks have a legit baby superstar on a legit bad team but the Cubs are easily the best team/franchise in the city right now. Ya love to see it they've got hitters and pitchers and prospects. Cubs are underrated (or at least they very recently were) in terms of up arrow hype.

On the other side of town the slumsdorfs have run the Sox into that below major league level, triple A+ kind of minor league franchise with the marlins and A's. And obviously we've suffered the moneysdorfs cyphoning the life out the bulls as a franchise over many years now. Total bums whos shameless greed reeks from the Westside to the south.
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Re: OT: Cubs Offseason Thread 

Post#78 » by Dresden » Mon Apr 8, 2024 1:23 am

Kurt Heimlich wrote:The Bears are the most fun to dream about and the Hawks have a legit baby superstar on a legit bad team but the Cubs are easily the best team/franchise in the city right now. Ya love to see it they've got hitters and pitchers and prospects. Cubs are underrated (or at least they very recently were) in terms of up arrow hype.

On the other side of town the slumsdorfs have run the Sox into that below major league level, triple A+ kind of minor league franchise with the marlins and A's. And obviously we've suffered the moneysdorfs cyphoning the life out the bulls as a franchise over many years now. Total bums whos shameless greed reeks from the Westside to the south.


I just hope the Cubs are serious about building a contender, and not just happy to make the playoffs or win a weak division once every 6 years.
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Re: OT: Cubs Offseason Thread 

Post#79 » by Kurt Heimlich » Mon Apr 8, 2024 1:33 am

Dresden wrote:
Kurt Heimlich wrote:The Bears are the most fun to dream about and the Hawks have a legit baby superstar on a legit bad team but the Cubs are easily the best team/franchise in the city right now. Ya love to see it they've got hitters and pitchers and prospects. Cubs are underrated (or at least they very recently were) in terms of up arrow hype.

On the other side of town the slumsdorfs have run the Sox into that below major league level, triple A+ kind of minor league franchise with the marlins and A's. And obviously we've suffered the moneysdorfs cyphoning the life out the bulls as a franchise over many years now. Total bums whos shameless greed reeks from the Westside to the south.


I just hope the Cubs are serious about building a contender, and not just happy to make the playoffs or win a weak division once every 6 years.


Of all the Chicago major sport ownership's the Ricketts (Cubs) are whom I'm most confident in. Rocky Wirtz and his family have been great and there's no reason for me to doubt them after giving our city it's 2nd sports dynasty with the Kane and Toews era run. I expect big things out of that franchise as well, even after the sad loss of Rocky. Slumsdorfs are lowest of low end owners so those 2 franchises are screwed. The Bears are a legacy family franchise whom in recent history have been run like a mom and pop clown show. But there is definitely reason for excitement for them at this point in time.
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Re: OT: Cubs Offseason Thread 

Post#80 » by Jeffster81 » Tue Apr 9, 2024 4:29 am

Cubs are about to lose a game when they were up 8-0. SMH.

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