Thoughts on Donovan right now

[coldfish]

This hot streak is interesting. The team is playing the way Donovan wants and it is working. There is a lot to unpack here.
- Donovan's systems work just fine when the players actually do them.
- Donovan has a serious issue getting the mid 3 to actually do them.

Most of the talk on the board revolves around Pat and Coby. I think that Billy deserves some love here. This is what he has been preaching for a while.

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[jacoby1us]

I have to agree, although I still wish he would not play the entitlement game with Vuc and DDR. If you have a set of guys in that are on fire, let them play. I cannot help but question his situational awareness at times.

[FriedRise]

I think his offensive and defensive systems are mostly sound. After all, you don't just accidentally fall into a top 5 defensive team with DeMar, Zach, and Vooch gobbling up the majority of minutes if you don't know what you're doing. Offensively, the system that he wants to run is proven to fit modern basketball. He wants what we all want, like shooting more 3s and attacking the paint.

He has his stubborn moments though and sometimes too set in stone instead of reading the game. Like when Vooch is struggling and Drummond is cooking, the obvious move is to let Andre play more. Like, Vooch shouldn't have to be the one telling Billy to not sub him back in like he did earlier in the season. Or when Ayo and Pat were struggling for 50+ games last year, why didn't he switch it up and play Caruso, Coby, and DJJ more?

He also doesn't seem to have the command of his stars, often letting them do what they want to do instead of enforcing what he wants the team to be doing. Yes, part of it is personnel - we haven't had a lead PG until Pat Bev showed up for 20 some games and Coby's ascension this year - and if you were Zach, DeMar, or Vooch, as a veteran player, you can't change who you are. But I feel like there's got to be a middle ground there somewhere. Like, why didn't San Antonio DeMar show up until these last 10 games? That could've worked too with Zach in the lineup.

[KissedByaRose1]

He's the definition of average to me. I don't think he's a train wreck like guys we've had in the past (Hoiberg/Boylen) but I don't think he moves the needle in any meaningful way like the top guys do and I think we should strive for that. Best thing about him is he seems very very well liked across the league by the players.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

They’re playing beautiful ball right now. And one of Donovan’s biggest sins - entitlement minutes to Pat and Ayo - is finally paying off.

I’m happy with BD. If someone wants to argue he has a stars problem after underachieving in OKC and with the Mid 3 - fine, go ahead. But I’m willing to roll with him through this intermediate phase (youth + motivated vets) until the wheels come off.

[boundbymusic]

He's probably an above average NBA head coach. He was given a "Big 3" who didn't fit without a very specific variable added (Lonzo). I have a hard time believing any coach would have more success with those 3 minus Lonzo than Billy has had.

I don't think he's the problem but I also don't think he's one of the best. He's fine.

[LateNight]

Hot streak hasn’t really affected my opinion of Billy - but I also didn't think he was to be blamed when we were losing

He is fine. I like the motion offense, I don’t really know how his relationship with players affects chemistry - we will never get to see it, and that’s meant to be his biggest strength.

The winning streak seems to confirm my suspicion that a lot of our issues are unrelated to coaching.

[_txchilibowl_]

Everyone loves "Mellow Yellow" but I'm more of a "Hurdy Gurdy Man" myself....to each their own I guess.

[madvillian]

I believe that for the most part, 20-25 coaches at any given time are just fungible assets. Maybe there's like 2-3 coaches on both ends of "terrible" and "amazing" that move the needle a bit. The rest of the guys are just rolling the balls out and running stuff any other coach would for better or worse.

BD is firmly in the middle, he's an average coach, maybe slightly better than average given his man management skills (nobody ever seems to really say a bad word about him) and right now he's just adjusting to the reality of the new roster, as most coaches would.

All that said, you can give him credit for not being bad. Having an average coach is helpful.

[DxC17]

I think Billy is best suited to coach up and comers instead of established stars with egos. Or maybe his scheme is just incompatible with two ball dominant off the dribble scorers. No one knows what his relationship with Zach is like behind closed doors, but he has seemed to do just fine with two other All-Stars in DeMar and Vuc.

His schemes are good. He definitely gets an above average grade from me as a planner and strategist. The young guys play hard for him. I think he's a good motivator in that sense, and something that's easy for him to bring from college. The last 3 weeks should put to bed any concern about his handle on the locker room.

His biggest weakness is on the sideline IMO. Hasn't been successful with a lot of set plays, but again not sure if that's just personnel and catering to egos. I'm not going to say he's slow to react to what he's seeing as I would give a NBA coach the benefit of the doubt and presume they are seeing things beyond my comprehension. But he's not quick to tweak with things during a game. I think philosophically he's process over results driven. You can see the gap between him and someone like Spo in the final minute of the Miami game the other night.

I will forever hate that he was extended behind closed doors, but I'm not upset he's our coach. You can a lot worse than Billy Donovan. And I think he's the right coach for Coby and Pat.

[_txchilibowl_]

I've enjoyed all the backtracking...

[MGB8]

Not sure. Just like not sure what, if anything, this hot streak means, whether Coby has truly “leveled up” or is on his own hot streak, and what to think about (contract year) Pat.

Donovan is definitely better than the preceding clown show. He has never seemed to be a bad coach; the questions were whether he was a decent one or something better. In particular, developing young talent has seemed to be an issue, and there have been issues with going too small and rotation questions or “why not start the 3&D role players you signed around the meh-3 who need the ball,” rather than the not-working lineups that he used.

But too much unknown, and too soon to really evaluate.

[dougthonus]

Poll options are a bit too binary for my opinion on Billy, but I've always said I think he's a "good" coach.

I'd make my tiers something like:
Elite coaches: Maybe ~5 or so
Good coaches: Maybe ~15 or so
Guys who don't belong: ~10 or so

A good coach may not always be good for you, ie, maybe he doesn't fit in well with your talent, maybe he has specific personality problems with your players, maybe he has worn out your welcome, but his general ability is not hurting you.

[madvillian]

Poll options are a bit too binary for my opinion on Billy, but I've always said I think he's a "good" coach.

I'd make my tiers something like:
Elite coaches: Maybe ~5 or so
Good coaches: Maybe ~15 or so
Guys who don't belong: ~10 or so

A good coach may not always be good for you, ie, maybe he doesn't fit in well with your talent, maybe he has specific personality problems with your players, maybe he has worn out your welcome, but his general ability is not hurting you.

I'm not really sure "elite" coaches exist anymore. I'd have a hard time naming 2, let alone 5. For the most part play style has been optimized so much that there's just no coach that is going to "out scheme" the other on a nightly basis. I do believe that some coaches are "elite" for their rosters, but if you gave them another roster they'd struggle.

[nekorajo]

This is actually a tough question now. I was calling for his job not too long ago, but what a difference removing a malcontent makes. He's definitely earned a lot of points in his favor.

On one hand, Billy's comments about reintegrating Zach last night were masterful. Great for keeping Zach's trade value high. OTOH his overuse of Vuc still annoys me; His failure to properly utilize challenges; It seemed like Billy took Coby off the ball against LA (I could be wrong); Failing to call a good final play against Miami; Failing to double team Jimmy final shot; Playing an unhealthy Caruso vs the Spurs.

Tbd

[MrFortune3]

Hopefully this is a sign of improvements to come. He seems to be in a groove and the players are buying in.

[Flopper]

I think Billy and staff have done a pretty good job navigating the team through an early season dumpster fire. The rotations/minutes aren't perfect (they never are), but they've somehow managed to mitigate the badness of the mid-3-minus-1 and also develop and empower all young players of consequence. And the young guys are executing and playing hard; they look like a well-coached team when DeMar isn't iso'ing triple teams and Vuc isn't clanking easy shots and playing traffic cone defense.

[Hangtime84]

This is actually a tough question now. I was calling for his job not too long ago, but what a difference removing a malcontent makes. He's definitely earned a lot of points in his favor.

On one hand, Billy's comments about reintegrating Zach last night were masterful. Great for keeping Zach's trade value high. OTOH his overuse of Vuc still annoys me; His failure to properly utilize challenges; It seemed like Billy took Coby off the ball against LA (I could be wrong); Failing to call a good final play against Miami; Failing to double team Jimmy final shot; Playing an unhealthy Caruso vs the Spurs.

Tbd

LA schemed similar to Miami but got ball outta Coby hands quicker

[sco]

I've been pro Billy for some time. I'd say his strenghts are:

He has an established approach on both ends
He is a players coach - Zach comments aside, he seems to form relationships with his players
Based on comments I've seen from Coby and Pat over the past couple years and Demar's 3pt shooting of late, Billy lets guys know what they need to improve

His weaknesses are:

He gets too locked into guys/rotations/roles - I still hate his use of DJJ and Green last season.
Don't see too many in-game adjustments

For the Bulls, when we hired him, I don't think any better coaches wanted to come here.

[League Circles]

He's the best coach in the league