Around The NBA : 2023-24 Season #2

[Ice Man]

Mavs Clippers has got to be the best first-round matchup

Knicks-Heat or Knicks-Philly should be terrific. Assuming that Embiid plays, that is.

[Guru]

Is there a player that you would hate for your team to have worse than Grayson Allen?

[DASMACKDOWN]

Read on Twitter

Man I can see the Bucks going down to Indy. Even with Giannis to tell you the truth. Its a rivalry.

But without Giannis and they do go down to Indy, this will end one of the biggest NBA nightmare seasons in recent history.

[HomoSapien]

Adam Silver has openly talked about purposely softening the physicality of the game. Is he being nostalgic?

If he was using the term "too physical" to mean that fouls were called differently (aside from hand checking) then yes I think he was being nostalgic. But what I think he meant was that the game was played too much in the interior, with post players banging and pushing and clutching inside, and not enough movement/use of open space. So the NBA has done what it can to encourage more perimeter play.

You still have post players banging and pushing and clutching inside, which is why post scoring is relatively inefficient, because defenders are draped all over centers (see Jokic becoming e red from scratch marks), but now there's so much more perimeter play that overall there is less contact.

Respectfully, I feel like this is an absurd take. The Lakers team you posted about was not known as a physical team, so using them as your example doesn't work, IMO. Of course there are always exceptions, but there's no one in the league that is like the 90s Knicks (pick any year) or Heat. Even the Bad Boy Pistons existed into nearly the mid-90s, but were just less effective.

Adam Silver purposely changed the rules BECAUSE he felt like the league was too physical. Now because of those changes you've got a competition committee trying to figure out how to give defense a chance to exist again. You've also got guys like Vince and Kobe who somewhat existed in both eras, and both guys have always talked about how the league used to be physical. To dismiss this as nostalgia doesn't is lame.

“If you want more scoring, then this is the era. But if you want defense, think of how tough it was to score, then in my first couple years of the league,” Carter said.

“If you go back and watch film of the way guys like [Michel] Jordan, Kobe [Bryant], all these guys were scoring with the fouls they weren’t calling that's a foul in today’s game. These people were averaging 28 to 30 points plus with that defense back in the day. That’s why I say it was tougher to score, tougher to play [back then], but some guys can adjust to it in today’s game,” Carter added.

[HomoSapien]

Wow Grayson Allen 4/70 mil.

Now I gotta hand it to hin. He has had a heck of a season shooting the ball. League leading 46% from 3.

But still that is ALOT for Grayson Allen.

Makes you wonder what Caruso will command.

[drosestruts]

Adam Silver has openly talked about purposely softening the physicality of the game. Is he being nostalgic?

If he was using the term "too physical" to mean that fouls were called differently (aside from hand checking) then yes I think he was being nostalgic. But what I think he meant was that the game was played too much in the interior, with post players banging and pushing and clutching inside, and not enough movement/use of open space. So the NBA has done what it can to encourage more perimeter play.

You still have post players banging and pushing and clutching inside, which is why post scoring is relatively inefficient, because defenders are draped all over centers (see Jokic becoming e red from scratch marks), but now there's so much more perimeter play that overall there is less contact.

Respectfully, I feel like this is an absurd take. The Lakers team you posted about was not known as a physical team, so using them as your example doesn't work, IMO. Of course there are always exceptions, but there's no one in the league that is like the 90s Knicks (pick any year) or Heat. Even the Bad Boy Pistons existed into nearly the mid-90s, but were just less effective.

Adam Silver purposely changed the rules BECAUSE he felt like the league was too physical. Now because of those changes you've got a competition committee trying to figure out how to give defense a chance to exist again. You've also got guys like Vince and Kobe who somewhat existed in both eras, and both guys have always talked about how the league used to be physical. To dismiss this as nostalgia doesn't is lame.

“If you want more scoring, then this is the era. But if you want defense, think of how tough it was to score, then in my first couple years of the league,” Carter said.

“If you go back and watch film of the way guys like [Michel] Jordan, Kobe [Bryant], all these guys were scoring with the fouls they weren’t calling that's a foul in today’s game. These people were averaging 28 to 30 points plus with that defense back in the day. That’s why I say it was tougher to score, tougher to play [back then], but some guys can adjust to it in today’s game,” Carter added.

But it is nostalgic when it's not true. They say Jordan was scoring 30 points a game without fouls getting called, yet Jordan shot 9 free throws per game on average during his time with the Bulls.

That would rank second in the entire league this season.

His highest FTA per game was 12

Jordan was living at the line.

James Harden averages 8 FTA per game for his career and people say he's ruining basketball.

[Infinity2152]

If he was using the term "too physical" to mean that fouls were called differently (aside from hand checking) then yes I think he was being nostalgic. But what I think he meant was that the game was played too much in the interior, with post players banging and pushing and clutching inside, and not enough movement/use of open space. So the NBA has done what it can to encourage more perimeter play.

You still have post players banging and pushing and clutching inside, which is why post scoring is relatively inefficient, because defenders are draped all over centers (see Jokic becoming e red from scratch marks), but now there's so much more perimeter play that overall there is less contact.

Respectfully, I feel like this is an absurd take. The Lakers team you posted about was not known as a physical team, so using them as your example doesn't work, IMO. Of course there are always exceptions, but there's no one in the league that is like the 90s Knicks (pick any year) or Heat. Even the Bad Boy Pistons existed into nearly the mid-90s, but were just less effective.

Adam Silver purposely changed the rules BECAUSE he felt like the league was too physical. Now because of those changes you've got a competition committee trying to figure out how to give defense a chance to exist again. You've also got guys like Vince and Kobe who somewhat existed in both eras, and both guys have always talked about how the league used to be physical. To dismiss this as nostalgia doesn't is lame.

“If you want more scoring, then this is the era. But if you want defense, think of how tough it was to score, then in my first couple years of the league,” Carter said.

“If you go back and watch film of the way guys like [Michel] Jordan, Kobe [Bryant], all these guys were scoring with the fouls they weren’t calling that's a foul in today’s game. These people were averaging 28 to 30 points plus with that defense back in the day. That’s why I say it was tougher to score, tougher to play [back then], but some guys can adjust to it in today’s game,” Carter added.

But it is nostalgic when it's not true. They say Jordan was scoring 30 points a game without fouls getting called, yet Jordan shot 9 free throws per game on average during his time with the Bulls.

That would rank second in the entire league this season.

His highest FTA per game was 12

Jordan was living at the line.

James Harden averages 8 FTA per game for his career and people say he's ruining basketball.

Harden's highest FTA attempt per game is 11.8, lol. Jordan's was 11.9. He was shooting 12.4 3pt'ers per game, over half his shots, and still getting 11.8 free throws. The year Jordan averaged 11.9 he shot .8 3pt shots. He drove into traffic WAY, WAY more than Harden, and was hit far more. Much harder for a three point shooter to draw fouls, yet his highest season is the same as Jordan's. Apples and oranges. You'd think when pretty much EVERY NBA scorer who actually played in both eras say it was more physical, it's probably true. Jordan's regular season average is only 8.2, and that's averaging 38.7 minutes. Harden's is 8.3 playing only 34.7 minutes.

When a guy who career averages 7.5 3pt attempts on 16.2 shots can draw as many fouls as the probably most popular guy in the NBA, who averaged 1.7 3pt attempts on 22.9 shots, that says it's easier to draw free throws on minimal contact.

Reggie Miller and Ray Allen, both prolific 3pt shooters of that time, averaged 5.1 and 3.8 free throws respectively. Bird only averaged 5 a game, with an average of 1.9 3pt attempts on 19 shots.

[boozapalooza]

Tonight is a reminder the Warriors need to add aot more talent around Steph. Klay is not a top 3 option anymore. I still think they are a perfect Lavine fit.

[Hangtime84]

Tonight is a reminder the Warriors need to add aot more talent around Steph. Klay is not a top 3 option anymore. I still think they are a perfect Lavine fit.

Same give us Mr Kum bucket

[kulaz3000]

Tonight is a reminder the Warriors need to add aot more talent around Steph. Klay is not a top 3 option anymore. I still think they are a perfect Lavine fit.

Same give us Mr Kum bucket

I'd want more than Johnathan in a trade. Yeah, he is an up and coming young player, he isn't quite there yet. Plus, we would be in a position of power because as you Booz said, he would be a perfect fit with Curry and isn't over the hill like Klay is. Plus, with Klay being an UFA, there would need to be some work to make salaries match, possibly need a third team involved to take on Wiggins.

They are going to be desperate to stretch out Curry's career with the team, so I definitely can foresee a lot of discussions between the Warriors and the Bulls, or at the very least, there SHOULD be. If AK isn't on the phone with them already, he should.

[Muzbar]

Tonight is a reminder the Warriors need to add aot more talent around Steph. Klay is not a top 3 option anymore. I still think they are a perfect Lavine fit.

Same give us Mr Kum bucket

I'd want more than Johnathan in a trade. Yeah, he is an up and coming young player, he isn't quite there yet. Plus, we would be in a position of power because as you Booz said, he would be a perfect fit with Curry and isn't over the hill like Klay is. Plus, with Klay being an UFA, there would need to be some work to make salaries match, possibly need a third team involved to take on Wiggins.

They are going to be desperate to stretch out Curry's career with the team, so I definitely can foresee a lot of discussions between the Warriors and the Bulls, or at the very least, there SHOULD be. If AK isn't on the phone with them already, he should.

CP3 is still on the books for 30m next year (team option) so that could make things easier, plus Kuminga at 7.6m gets it pretty close.

I doubt the Warriors trade Kuminga for Zach, let alone Kuminga plus other assets for Zach. Or any team for that matter.

[kulaz3000]

Same give us Mr Kum bucket

I'd want more than Johnathan in a trade. Yeah, he is an up and coming young player, he isn't quite there yet. Plus, we would be in a position of power because as you Booz said, he would be a perfect fit with Curry and isn't over the hill like Klay is. Plus, with Klay being an UFA, there would need to be some work to make salaries match, possibly need a third team involved to take on Wiggins.

They are going to be desperate to stretch out Curry's career with the team, so I definitely can foresee a lot of discussions between the Warriors and the Bulls, or at the very least, there SHOULD be. If AK isn't on the phone with them already, he should.

CP3 is still on the books for 30m next year (team option) so that could make things easier, plus Kuminga at 7.6m gets it pretty close.

I doubt the Warriors trade Kuminga for Zach, let alone Kuminga plus other assets for Zach. Or any team for that matter.

Maybe not, but that's where I would start. It's a matter of whether they want to waste away Curry's last few great season, and wait for Johnathan, or bring in more veteran players to eek out another possible championship run. They definitely have decisions to make. But them getting bounced out of the play-in will definitely put some pressure on them to make some significant moves this off season I'd say.

[HomoSapien]

If he was using the term "too physical" to mean that fouls were called differently (aside from hand checking) then yes I think he was being nostalgic. But what I think he meant was that the game was played too much in the interior, with post players banging and pushing and clutching inside, and not enough movement/use of open space. So the NBA has done what it can to encourage more perimeter play.

You still have post players banging and pushing and clutching inside, which is why post scoring is relatively inefficient, because defenders are draped all over centers (see Jokic becoming e red from scratch marks), but now there's so much more perimeter play that overall there is less contact.

Respectfully, I feel like this is an absurd take. The Lakers team you posted about was not known as a physical team, so using them as your example doesn't work, IMO. Of course there are always exceptions, but there's no one in the league that is like the 90s Knicks (pick any year) or Heat. Even the Bad Boy Pistons existed into nearly the mid-90s, but were just less effective.

Adam Silver purposely changed the rules BECAUSE he felt like the league was too physical. Now because of those changes you've got a competition committee trying to figure out how to give defense a chance to exist again. You've also got guys like Vince and Kobe who somewhat existed in both eras, and both guys have always talked about how the league used to be physical. To dismiss this as nostalgia doesn't is lame.

“If you want more scoring, then this is the era. But if you want defense, think of how tough it was to score, then in my first couple years of the league,” Carter said.

“If you go back and watch film of the way guys like [Michel] Jordan, Kobe [Bryant], all these guys were scoring with the fouls they weren’t calling that's a foul in today’s game. These people were averaging 28 to 30 points plus with that defense back in the day. That’s why I say it was tougher to score, tougher to play [back then], but some guys can adjust to it in today’s game,” Carter added.

But it is nostalgic when it's not true. They say Jordan was scoring 30 points a game without fouls getting called, yet Jordan shot 9 free throws per game on average during his time with the Bulls.

That would rank second in the entire league this season.

His highest FTA per game was 12

Jordan was living at the line.

James Harden averages 8 FTA per game for his career and people say he's ruining basketball.

People that hate on Harden do so because of all the flopping, lack of defense, uncalled traveling, and obscene number three-point attempts. Not sure what any of that has to do with Jordan and how he was able to get to the line during his time.

[Ice Man]

The Warriors are dead in the water. When your outright best player, no doubts about it, is 35+, that means four things.

1) Your best player might be very good, but he is no longer great (unless his name is Mike, LeBron, or Mailman)
2) Which means that your next best player isn't all that special, since he is well behind a guy who is only very good
3) So, your team lacks current talent
4) And it will lack future talent, because your best player will soon become much worse, and you don't have any future superstars on your roster

Thus, the current Warriors, Heat, and Bulls. There is no near-term hope for any of those franchises.

[MrSparkle]

The Warriors are dead in the water. When your outright best player, no doubts about it, is 35+, that means four things.

1) Your best player might be very good, but he is no longer great (unless his name is Mike, LeBron, or Mailman)
2) Which means that your next best player isn't all that special, since he is well behind a guy who is only very good
3) So, your team lacks current talent
4) And it will lack future talent, because your best player will soon become much worse, and you don't have any future superstars on your roster

Thus, the current Warriors, Heat, and Bulls. There is no near-term hope for any of those franchises.

TBF, they’ll be better off moving on from Draymond, CP3 and Klay (unless he’s a $10m resign, but even then, seems his ego/desire for minutes hurt more than it helped). They can go for one last re-structuring, around Curry, who’s still an all star PG: him and the kids (who are now multi season vets).

Now of course a huge Curry trade would be in their best interests, but they may let him retire gracefully. Not everyone’s got Ainge’s feisty trade fever. But if Curry is ready to go (with Klay and Dray), then you look to move him too.

[Ice Man]

TBF, they’ll be better off moving on from Draymond, CP3 and Klay (unless he’s a $10m resign, but even then, seems his ego/desire for minutes hurt more than it helped). They can go for one last re-structuring, around Curry, who’s still an all star PG: him and the kids (who are now multi season vets).

True, those 3 guys + Wiggins are $120 million in dead weight. If only they could be replaced by $120 million of actual ballplayers. But as we know, being about halfway in that situation, doing so is not so easy!

Now of course a huge Curry trade would be in their best interests, but they may let him retire gracefully.

I would like to see that happen. As the Lakers did with Kobe and Dallas with Dirk.

[Michael Jackson]

Same give us Mr Kum bucket

I'd want more than Johnathan in a trade. Yeah, he is an up and coming young player, he isn't quite there yet. Plus, we would be in a position of power because as you Booz said, he would be a perfect fit with Curry and isn't over the hill like Klay is. Plus, with Klay being an UFA, there would need to be some work to make salaries match, possibly need a third team involved to take on Wiggins.

They are going to be desperate to stretch out Curry's career with the team, so I definitely can foresee a lot of discussions between the Warriors and the Bulls, or at the very least, there SHOULD be. If AK isn't on the phone with them already, he should.

CP3 is still on the books for 30m next year (team option) so that could make things easier, plus Kuminga at 7.6m gets it pretty close.

I doubt the Warriors trade Kuminga for Zach, let alone Kuminga plus other assets for Zach. Or any team for that matter.

It is still likely their best offer I bet getting off the CP3 money and getting Zach who can still play. Problem is what do you do with Klay?

[DASMACKDOWN]

Steph will never get traded. So there is that.

I think Bob Myers knew this was the end last year. Which is why he left. I think most people thought that too. To me they 'could' have made another legacy run but Draymond/Poole happened.

Lets be real, that was the true beginning of the end.

Poole has been a disaster in Washington but he could have been a nice bridge for Klay. Klay can still shoot the ball, but he is having far less "Game 6 Klay" moments. Father time is setting up shop in Klay's apartment.

To tell you the truth, the Warriors are probably better off moving Klay or letting him walk. Trading Draymond if they can and just Kobe Steph till he retires. When it comes to Wiggins, I think there are too many things outside of the game affecting him. His heart isn't in it anymore. That contract probably cant get moved.

[jnrjr79]

I'd want more than Johnathan in a trade. Yeah, he is an up and coming young player, he isn't quite there yet. Plus, we would be in a position of power because as you Booz said, he would be a perfect fit with Curry and isn't over the hill like Klay is. Plus, with Klay being an UFA, there would need to be some work to make salaries match, possibly need a third team involved to take on Wiggins.

They are going to be desperate to stretch out Curry's career with the team, so I definitely can foresee a lot of discussions between the Warriors and the Bulls, or at the very least, there SHOULD be. If AK isn't on the phone with them already, he should.

CP3 is still on the books for 30m next year (team option) so that could make things easier, plus Kuminga at 7.6m gets it pretty close.

I doubt the Warriors trade Kuminga for Zach, let alone Kuminga plus other assets for Zach. Or any team for that matter.

Maybe not, but that's where I would start. It's a matter of whether they want to waste away Curry's last few great season, and wait for Johnathan, or bring in more veteran players to eke out another possible championship run. They definitely have decisions to make. But them getting bounced out of the play-in will definitely put some pressure on them to make some significant moves this off season I'd say.

Yeah, it seems everything will come down to how committed they are to ring chasing with an aging Curry vs. blowing it up or accepting being merely ok.

Could you use Caruso to spice up the offer to get Kuminga? Zach + Caruso for Paul + Kuminga + salary filler + a pick?

[kodo]

When you get blown out in an elimination game against Sacramento missing two of their top 4 3P shooters and Sabonis with only 16 points, time to hang 'em up. It's one thing to get knocked out in the play-in, that's what we're looking at, but GS has consistently been the league's most expensive team paying massive lux tax. I believe w/ operating expenses, they run at a loss.

2023-24 Payroll: $207.2 million
2023-24 Luxury Tax Payment: $188.2 million
2023-24 Combined Payroll and Luxury Tax Payment: $395.4 million

The Warriors are now the NBA’s all-time leader in total luxury tax payments after spending $163.7 million last season. They’ve paid $500 million in six seasons as taxpayers and are projected to spend approximately another $200 million this year. There is a pathway to finally get under the tax next season but that will mostly depend on what Klay Thompson’s next contract looks like.

Even if from a basketball standpoint the players are OK with just running it back for old times sake, I have a hard time believing anyone with any financial responsibility is going to greenlight continually throwing away 1/5th of a billion a year for a feel good.