Around The NBA : 2023-24 Season #2

[MrSparkle]

I think small ball is pretty much dead.

The whole thing is teams are now replicating the Golden State approach with bigger players.

ironic given that GS was elite playing smallball

Thing I always say... GSW wasn't small. They'd dominate the league today. Their backup PG was 6'6. Their starting PG could've been a perfectly sized SG to match up with Billy's Bulls. Draymond was short but stocky and strong as hell. Bogut was huge- Durant made them a super team, but they had Zaza holding the forte down (quite the pest).

The only difference is we've got more 7-footers today with full-on 3P range and passing ability, who aren't defensive liabilities.

There's never been a midget team (cough, Billy Bulls) that's won a ring.

In general, I feel like every champion has like... 1 size liability at most. Otherwise, they hit that prototypical size at almost every position.

[jc23]

anybody remember the official pizza of the UC prior to Digorinos? i think it changed in the Thibs era but my brain no work.

[kodo]

Sun's are going to get swept

That Beal trade was one of the dumber moves I've seen for a contender. He brings nothing that Durant & Booker can't do better, and he solves none of the problems they created by trading for Durant (defense, hustle, size, physicality, lob threat).

And you can't admit a mistake and just move him for the roleplayers they need, he'll veto any trade.

Can Durant force his way to another team? Or is this the end of the road at his age?

[boozapalooza]

Sun's are going to get swept

That Beal trade was one of the dumber moves I've seen for a contender. He brings nothing that Durant & Booker can't do better, and he solves none of the problems they created by trading for Durant (defense, hustle, size, physicality, lob threat).

And you can't admit a mistake and just move him for the roleplayers they need, he'll veto any trade.

Can Durant force his way to another team? Or is this the end of the road at his age?

Is it crazy to think we could see KD force his way back to GS? Regardless of age it would be a hell of a move for GS to pair KD with Steph again. We’ve already seen it work. And for PHX, if theyre offered a combination of Kuminga, Podz, Moody, Wiggins, THD, and picks, an offer could be compelling enough. Worth keeping an eye on.

[Muzbar]

Sun's are going to get swept

That Beal trade was one of the dumber moves I've seen for a contender. He brings nothing that Durant & Booker can't do better, and he solves none of the problems they created by trading for Durant (defense, hustle, size, physicality, lob threat).

And you can't admit a mistake and just move him for the roleplayers they need, he'll veto any trade.

Can Durant force his way to another team? Or is this the end of the road at his age?

They had one of the best young and up and coming rosters with a core of Booker, Bridges, Ayton and Cam Johnson.

In the 2020 draft they picked Jalen Smith at 10, Haliburton went 12th, if they had picked Hali that would have been an amazing young core.

They traded all of their young core for Beal and Durant just to the could squeak into the 6th seed on the last day of the season. They should have just stayed the course.

[ChiefILL53]

Sun's are going to get swept

That Beal trade was one of the dumber moves I've seen for a contender. He brings nothing that Durant & Booker can't do better, and he solves none of the problems they created by trading for Durant (defense, hustle, size, physicality, lob threat).

And you can't admit a mistake and just move him for the roleplayers they need, he'll veto any trade.

Can Durant force his way to another team? Or is this the end of the road at his age?

He prolly could try and force his way out, but who would trade for him unless they were truly desperate? Most teams that he would truly be a difference maker for would have to give up too much to match his salary and they'd be in the same spot; top heavy with no depth. I still dont know how anyone thought Phx were gonna be game changers trading for an INJURY prone bradley beal, who's objectively worse than Zach the past couple years. However, the Beal trade gives me hope that AKME could get a bit of a better return since Zach doesnt have a trade clause but the trade kicker.

[pipfan]

Sun's are going to get swept

That Beal trade was one of the dumber moves I've seen for a contender. He brings nothing that Durant & Booker can't do better, and he solves none of the problems they created by trading for Durant (defense, hustle, size, physicality, lob threat).

And you can't admit a mistake and just move him for the roleplayers they need, he'll veto any trade.

Can Durant force his way to another team? Or is this the end of the road at his age?

They had one of the best young and up and coming rosters with a core of Booker, Bridges, Ayton and Cam Johnson.

In the 2020 draft they picked Jalen Smith at 10, Haliburton went 12th, if they had picked Hali that would have been an amazing young core.

They traded all of their young core for Beal and Durant just to the could squeak into the 6th seed on the last day of the season. They should have just stayed the course.

I think that Suns blunder is super-underrated.
Of course, we should have drafted Hali at #4, but for them to pass on him at #10 was crazy, then pick a guy you get rid of so fast.
Hali/Booker/Bridges/Johnson/Ayton is a contender

[Ice Man]

The Suns are a reminder that while players *can* be near their best in their 30s, it's a mistake to expect that to happen. If Durant at age 35 and Beal at age 30 were at their peak levels, the Suns would not be a #6 seed and would not be down 0-2 in the first round of the playoffs. Instead, they would be a serious threat to take down Denver. But those two guys are nowhere near their peak levels. Durant is now a very good but not great player, and Beal isn't even good at all.

Depending upon 30+ guys is a dangerous business.

[MrSparkle]

The Suns are a reminder that while players *can* be near their best in their 30s, it's a mistake to expect that to happen. If Durant at age 35 and Beal at age 30 were at their peak levels, the Suns would not be a #6 seed and would not be down 0-2 in the first round of the playoffs. Instead, they would be a serious threat to take down Denver. But those two guys are nowhere near their peak levels. Durant is now a very good but not great player, and Beal isn't even good at all.

Depending upon 30+ guys is a dangerous business.

Suns are also a reminder of why you should never trade 2 young finals starters with 5 unprotected firsts (inc. swap) for anybody.

I mean, honestly, I’d hesitate doing that for a prime superstar unless I had 2 other stars locked in. They had Booker, but then 36yo CP3 and Ayton as the remaining pieces on a nuked roster? I just can’t believe they gave up both Cam and Mikal in addition to all those picks, where 2 of the stars were over 35.

[Ice Man]

Suns are also a reminder of why you should never trade 2 young finals starters with 5 unprotected firsts (inc. swap) for anybody.

I would do that for Wemby. That said, your point otherwise stands. Well put.

[Michael Jackson]

Mat Ishbia really screwed the Suns. They really are almost in a worse situation than the Bulls are and will take a long time to rebuild. Booker will be long gone by then. This is why spending just to spend is not a solution. Maybe this year it works out for Ballmer this year a bit better but that hasn't worked well. GSW it worked for because it was a lot of home grown talent... but now they are also hamstrung.

[MrSparkle]

Suns are also a reminder of why you should never trade 2 young finals starters with 5 unprotected firsts (inc. swap) for anybody.

I would do that for Wemby. That said, your point otherwise stands. Well put.

Man, I don’t think I’d risk it. Wemby has an ACL tear and then what? The swaps mean you have half a decade of no shot at a top pick, which is also a strong trade asset in itself. Putting 100% of your stock in 2 great players and free agency is very risky, and nearly impossible to build a good team. Especially these days, as most stars sign their max extensions asap without thinking twice, and roleplayers (particularly shooters and 3D wings) command significant cap space on the open market.

Mavs, Suns, Clippers, Lakers, Nets struggles whilst having multiple superstars are proof in the pudding. You need a strong 8-man rotation to cruise to perennial contention. When you do the 5 FRP and 2 good asset/young prospect mega deal, you’re chucking so many uncertain darts that you’re bound to get stung by one (Shai in LAC’s case), and incapable of filling a depth chart.

Celtics, Nuggets, Thunder have 1 thing in common- they never traded more than 1 pick for their rotation pieces (if anything, they got picks with them). Nor did the Heat (and even they struggled with the freebie Big 3). I think Jimmy also costed like, 1 FRP at most in that S&T. LeLakers and Bucks are lucky they got their 1 ring each, as they paid some big prices for Davis and Jrue. (The Dame trade is gonna probably end up a big blunder.)

But yeah… Shai, Jokic, Giannis, Luka, Wemby… would I trade Mikal, Cam and 5 picks if I had Booker? I don’t know. I’d maybe sooner try to trade Booker and much less picks. The truth with this hypothetical is that a sub-28yo established superstar is literally untradeable. I can’t think of one that’s ever been traded (caveats with Harden, Shai, Butler… nobody knew they’d become MVP caliber, inc. the teams that got them). They are worth more than the farm, but is there anything more frustrating than having a generational superstar and not being able to pass the first round? (KG Wolves, TMac Magic, etc.)

[jc23]

Spo is the man.

[kodo]

Miami hit 23 3s, Boston hit 12. Even as lopsided as a 64W team vs a play-in team, 3's win games.

I hope AK is watching.

[Ice Man]

Spo is the man.

Not sure he had much to do with the Heat making 23 3s, but sure. He's an excellent coach regardless.

And it turns out that Perk was wrong. If Miami makes 100% of its 3s against Boston, it will in fact beat the Celitcs in this series. I mean, who knew that making 3 pointers was important? I mean, that's such an obscure statistic. I can't blame Perk for not figuring that out.

[Dresden]

I'd love it if MIA takes down BOS for a second year in a row.

[Bullflip]

Why dont we just get a team full of 3 point specialists and just jack up 3s? That way, when a couple might be cold, there is bound to be someone that gets on fire

[MrSparkle]

Geez, the NOP-OKC series is a snore. Somebody get Zion some new legs.

[Ice Man]

Why dont we just get a team full of 3 point specialists and just jack up 3s? That way, when a couple might be cold, there is bound to be someone that gets on fire

Unfortunately, there are also bound to be guys who hit their first 2 shots and then miss their next 7. That said, you're not wrong that in the modern NBA a team needs half a dozen 3 point specialists. You want at least 2 on the court at any time. With substitutes and injuries, that makes for 6 slots for 3 point bombers. JJ Redick was considered a fringe specialist player when he came to the league. A luxury asset that you might not use in a game. Now you need this JJ and that JJ and another JJ ...

[Charlesareed]

The Suns are a reminder that while players *can* be near their best in their 30s, it's a mistake to expect that to happen. If Durant at age 35 and Beal at age 30 were at their peak levels, the Suns would not be a #6 seed and would not be down 0-2 in the first round of the playoffs. Instead, they would be a serious threat to take down Denver. But those two guys are nowhere near their peak levels. Durant is now a very good but not great player, and Beal isn't even good at all.

Depending upon 30+ guys is a dangerous business.

They had no need to panic like that sure you do the KD trade 10/10 but not for both cam/bridges and all those picks no way was the Beal trade going to work he and booker occupy the same space book is a slightly better 3pt shooter and defensive player but not by much they are stuck with Beal since they have no picks to trade with him

On the bright side it’s not like bridges or cam Johnson are setting the league on fire like harden did when he got traded to Houston