Around The NBA : 2023-24 Season #2

[DASMACKDOWN]

...and the beat goes on for a new thread!

Read on Twitter

Im not ready to say the Suns are a disaster but they really are in a tough spot right now. This might be a situation where they messed with the mix too much.

But imagine having this type of salary on he books, no draft capital for years and no ability to add new talent. They look like a play-in team right now currently 10th

[ChiefILL53]

I heard Klay and the youngins are playing better, I think Draymond is the one who has to go. I dont think he really helps them be a title contender anymore.

[StephenAA]

...and the beat goes on for a new thread!

Read on Twitter

Im not ready to say the Suns are a disaster but they really are in a tough spot right now. This might be a situation where they messed with the mix too much.

But imagine having this type of salary on he books, no draft capital for years and no ability to add new talent. They look like a play-in team right now currently 10th

*
I agree with your analysis about the Suns, but I don't think 'last 5 game record' meme wholly applies to that. What the meme does say is interesting: GS seems to be playing a whole lot better without Draymond than with him. Hey Bulls fans, sound familiar??

AA

[Wingy]

...and the beat goes on for a new thread!

Read on Twitter

Im not ready to say the Suns are a disaster but they really are in a tough spot right now. This might be a situation where they messed with the mix too much.

But imagine having this type of salary on he books, no draft capital for years and no ability to add new talent. They look like a play-in team right now currently 10th

Nah, you can say it.

Durant is 35 and his team got swept by the Celtics. Beal has missed > 25% of the season 4 years running. They don’t have a single PG worth playing.

No one should be particularly surprised.

[Ice Man]

Nah, you can say it.

Durant is 35 and his team got swept by the Celtics. Beal has missed > 25% of the season 4 years running. They don’t have a single PG worth playing.

No one should be particularly surprised.

Greatest hits of oldies collectinos typically disappoint.

Hakeem/Barkley/Scottie
Kobe/Nash/Dwight Howard
Durant/Harden/Kyrie

No doubt there are other examples. But you get the point. The guys aren't what they used to be plus, plus injuries, plus usually there's not much defense going on, plus fit.

[drosestruts]

I can't begin to describe the anxiety and pressure I would feel being the team to play Detroit right now.

If you win - congrats you beat a team that's lost 26 games in a row and you get little to no credit for doing so

If you lose - you're the team that got beat by Detroit (please no one look at the last game they won)

We somehow don't play them again till the end of Feburary in which by that time hopefully they've won a game? if not they'd be on like 0-50 stretch.

[Jeffster81]

Detroit is making me wish the NBA had promotion/relegation, because the Pistons belong in the G-League.

[jc23]

Detroit is making me wish the NBA had promotion/relegation, because the Pistons belong in the G-League.

relegation would be cool but something that just wouldnt work in this country. Maybe for the team that finishes with the worst record you are disqualified from picks 1-5 that year.

[Repeat 3-peat]

What is wild is that the Pistons were viewed as a team that had a bright future before the season.

Rebuilding can be f'n hell.

[DASMACKDOWN]

What is wild is that the Pistons were viewed as a team that had a bright future before the season.

Rebuilding can be f'n hell.

This is what I am saying about fans "cherry picking" what they think a rebuild looks like.

They see success stories like OKC and think every team just needs to do that and come out on top. But more teams look closer to Detroit than OKC.

As a fan, how in the world would you enjoy watching a team that has not won a game in 2 months. Its totally demoralizing as a player and as a fanbase.

[kodo]

Pistons without Cade last year won 17 total and had 8 Ws by Christmas so it's interesting that adding a major player in Cade ends up with far worse results. It's hard not to scrutinize Monty vs Dwayne Casey (who is always underrated). But with that contract, it's going to be financially impossible to fire him.

They also seem forced to play Ausar as a 5th pick, which is basically them playing 4 on 5.

They see success stories like OKC and think every team just needs to do that and come out on top. But more teams look closer to Detroit than OKC.

OKC was this bad as well, and Weaver was made GM because he was assistant GM of OKC. In 2021 OKC had a 3 month span when they had only 2 wins, and I want to say about 25 losses. Similar to the Pistons. This is with SGA & Lu Dortz & Al Horford, so a lot better than what DET is fielding. It's obvious Detroit wanted to follow the OKC model, so they grabbed one of their GMs who worked closely w/ Presti.

But nobody blinked an eye at that in OKC. Never made the news.

[FriedRise]

Read on Twitter

That’s crazy lmao

[MikeDC]

Pistons without Cade last year won 17 total and had 8 Ws by Christmas so it's interesting that adding a major player in Cade ends up with far worse results. It's hard not to scrutinize Monty vs Dwayne Casey (who is always underrated). But with that contract, it's going to be financially impossible to fire him.

They also seem forced to play Ausar as a 5th pick, which is basically them playing 4 on 5.

They see success stories like OKC and think every team just needs to do that and come out on top. But more teams look closer to Detroit than OKC.

OKC was this bad as well, and Weaver was made GM because he was assistant GM of OKC. In 2021 OKC had a 3 month span when they had only 2 wins, and I want to say about 25 losses. Similar to the Pistons. This is with SGA & Lu Dortz & Al Horford, so a lot better than what DET is fielding. It's obvious Detroit wanted to follow the OKC model, so they grabbed one of their GMs who worked closely w/ Presti.

But nobody blinked an eye at that in OKC. Never made the news.

But this is only looking at an isolated result from OKC and Detroit, not the actual actions that let do that result. Or all the other results and actions.

When you look at the bigger picture, Detroit very obviously didn't follow OKC's model.

1. OKC in 20-21 parted ways with an experienced coach and started a rebuild. When they went on that huge losing streak, it's because they had started the season playing relatively well. So they made up phantom injuries for SGA and Horford. They showed they could be respectable, and then purposely tanked to lose all those games. This was in the first season of their rebuild.

2. Detroit is in season 5 of their rebuild! Season 4 under Weaver. While Presti collected draft picks and cheap guys, Weaver in year 1 did all kinds of weird trades. Acquired Jerami Grant, traded Bruce Brown, Luke Kennard and 4 seconds (23-26) for... Sadiq Bey and a 21 2nd. He was trading the future for the present even then, and doing a bad job of it, since the best player by far in those deals is Bruce Brown, whom he gave away.

3. The seasons that followed have brought just as much muddled thinking and poor drafting.

[MrSparkle]

Pistons without Cade last year won 17 total and had 8 Ws by Christmas so it's interesting that adding a major player in Cade ends up with far worse results. It's hard not to scrutinize Monty vs Dwayne Casey (who is always underrated). But with that contract, it's going to be financially impossible to fire him.

They also seem forced to play Ausar as a 5th pick, which is basically them playing 4 on 5.

They see success stories like OKC and think every team just needs to do that and come out on top. But more teams look closer to Detroit than OKC.

OKC was this bad as well, and Weaver was made GM because he was assistant GM of OKC. In 2021 OKC had a 3 month span when they had only 2 wins, and I want to say about 25 losses. Similar to the Pistons. This is with SGA & Lu Dortz & Al Horford, so a lot better than what DET is fielding. It's obvious Detroit wanted to follow the OKC model, so they grabbed one of their GMs who worked closely w/ Presti.

But nobody blinked an eye at that in OKC. Never made the news.

But this is only looking at an isolated result from OKC and Detroit, not the actual actions that let do that result. Or all the other results and actions.

When you look at the bigger picture, Detroit very obviously didn't follow OKC's model.

1. OKC in 20-21 parted ways with an experienced coach and started a rebuild. When they went on that huge losing streak, it's because they had started the season playing relatively well. So they made up phantom injuries for SGA and Horford. They showed they could be respectable, and then purposely tanked to lose all those games. This was in the first season of their rebuild.

2. Detroit is in season 5 of their rebuild! Season 4 under Weaver. While Presti collected draft picks and cheap guys, Weaver in year 1 did all kinds of weird trades. Acquired Jerami Grant, traded Bruce Brown, Luke Kennard and 4 seconds (23-26) for... Sadiq Bey and a 21 2nd. He was trading the future for the present even then, and doing a bad job of it, since the best player by far in those deals is Bruce Brown, whom he gave away.

3. The seasons that followed have brought just as much muddled thinking and poor drafting.

In the end, it really is just luck. Detroit was last place 2y in a row and got the #5 pick in the two good drafts (Chet/Paolo, Wemby), and got the #1 with Cade headlining. That Jerami Grant acquisition was pretty good. Bey was pretty good.

Are the Spurs some kind of geniuses with their approach? Not really, they just lucked in VW.

The Thunder lucked into Shai being better than anybody thought, and they won the odds for Chet. Other than that, I don't see what these teams have done differently in terms of stacking young stinkers for half a decade. Presti capitalized on Paul George, and that's his big break. He sure lost the Durant and Harden part.

Pistons will be good once Ivey and Ausar pan out. Might be a while. It'd probably be a mistake to move on from those guys.

Dunno what the plan is with Hayes. Seems like a decent guy who can't shoot at all. If he ever figures that out, he'll be alright. Probably a cheap resign.

Cade, Wiseman, Bagley are a different story. Time for addition by subtraction. Can't put this many soft, 1-way prospects on a squad. Almost like the baby version of Zach/Demar/Vuc. Cute idea getting last year's busts, but in the end, you might salvage 1 or 2 guys, but it was about as naive as it would've been adding OJ Mayo, Michael Beasley and Thabeet.

[DASMACKDOWN]

Merry Christmas everyone!

[kodo]

But this is only looking at an isolated result from OKC and Detroit, not the actual actions that let do that result. Or all the other results and actions.

When you look at the bigger picture, Detroit very obviously didn't follow OKC's model.

1. OKC in 20-21 parted ways with an experienced coach and started a rebuild. When they went on that huge losing streak, it's because they had started the season playing relatively well. So they made up phantom injuries for SGA and Horford. They showed they could be respectable, and then purposely tanked to lose all those games. This was in the first season of their rebuild.

2. Detroit is in season 5 of their rebuild! Season 4 under Weaver. While Presti collected draft picks and cheap guys, Weaver in year 1 did all kinds of weird trades. Acquired Jerami Grant, traded Bruce Brown, Luke Kennard and 4 seconds (23-26) for... Sadiq Bey and a 21 2nd. He was trading the future for the present even then, and doing a bad job of it, since the best player by far in those deals is Bruce Brown, whom he gave away.

3. The seasons that followed have brought just as much muddled thinking and poor drafting.

Detroit is not in their 5th year of a rebuild. As recently as 2021 they were trying to win games with
- Derrick Rose
- Blake Griffin
- Jerami Grant
- Mason Plumlee

They basically decided to hit the reset button at the trade deadline of 21.

[MikeDC]

I feel like you guys are consciously trying to focus on minor details and ignore the big, really obvious point that OKC was doing things fundamentally differently and even the superficial similarities (like losing 20+ games in a row) occurred for very different reasons.

In OKC, it happened on the front end of the rebuild because of the team consciously chose to tank and not play its best players.

In DET, it's happening on what was supposed to be a season where they emerged from a rebuild and are trying hard to be competitive.

It's not "just luck". OKC has made good decision after good decision. Detroit has made bad decision after bad decision. OKC has a stable and consistent organization that's all pulling in the same direction. Detroit has a factional and dysfunctional organization that's continually at odds.

Luck is for losers, as the saying goes. Another way to put it is that everyone needs luck, but a bad, dysfunctional team like the Pistons simply wastes the luck they get.

[Chi town]

I’m tired of the Bulls sucking and never getting a Christmas game.

I fully anticipate Coby fixing this and all of us enjoying a Christmas win next season.

[MrSparkle]

I feel like you guys are consciously trying to focus on minor details and ignore the big, really obvious point that OKC was doing things fundamentally differently and even the superficial similarities (like losing 20+ games in a row) occurred for very different reasons.

In OKC, it happened on the front end of the rebuild because of the team consciously chose to tank and not play its best players.

In DET, it's happening on what was supposed to be a season where they emerged from a rebuild and are trying hard to be competitive.

It's not "just luck". OKC has made good decision after good decision. Detroit has made bad decision after bad decision. OKC has a stable and consistent organization that's all pulling in the same direction. Detroit has a factional and dysfunctional organization that's continually at odds.

Luck is for losers, as the saying goes. Another way to put it is that everyone needs luck, but a bad, dysfunctional team like the Pistons simply wastes the luck they get.

OKC got Shai (and the haul) in a Paul George trade, who they got as a mediocre tread-mill team with no "future" while trying to be competitive.

I don't get the love for OKC. If they don't get Shai as a throw-in from the thirsty Clippers, then they're just as lost as the next tank job... With Kiddey and Dort being Chet's wingmen.

[MikeDC]

But this is only looking at an isolated result from OKC and Detroit, not the actual actions that let do that result. Or all the other results and actions.

When you look at the bigger picture, Detroit very obviously didn't follow OKC's model.

1. OKC in 20-21 parted ways with an experienced coach and started a rebuild. When they went on that huge losing streak, it's because they had started the season playing relatively well. So they made up phantom injuries for SGA and Horford. They showed they could be respectable, and then purposely tanked to lose all those games. This was in the first season of their rebuild.

2. Detroit is in season 5 of their rebuild! Season 4 under Weaver. While Presti collected draft picks and cheap guys, Weaver in year 1 did all kinds of weird trades. Acquired Jerami Grant, traded Bruce Brown, Luke Kennard and 4 seconds (23-26) for... Sadiq Bey and a 21 2nd. He was trading the future for the present even then, and doing a bad job of it, since the best player by far in those deals is Bruce Brown, whom he gave away.

3. The seasons that followed have brought just as much muddled thinking and poor drafting.

Detroit is not in their 5th year of a rebuild. As recently as 2021 they were trying to win games with
- Derrick Rose
- Blake Griffin
- Jerami Grant
- Mason Plumlee

They basically decided to hit the reset button at the trade deadline of 21.

Weaver started in June 2020. Just a couple months after AK. Took over a 20-46 Pistons team that was obvious trash. From the beginning, Weaver started making "sell the future to improve the present" kind of moves while also, conflictingly, rebuilding.

1. The already mentioned trade of Bruce Brown, Kennard, and 4 (23-26 seconds) for the rights to pick #19 (which became Sadiq Bey and a 21 2nd. This was just a ghastly trade, and it was conflicting. On one hand, you're getting a 1st, but giving up a net of 3 seconds to do it, plus two players. Just a bad trade.

2. Gave cash to get Grant.

3. Acquired pick #16 with whom they picked Stewart by trading Traded Christian Wood a '21 second, and a future 1st (which ironically still hasn't conveyed and will end up being a better pick than #16).

4. Drafted Killian Hayes #7

5. Signed Plumlee, Okafor, and Josh Jackson as FAs

They knew Rose and Griffin were done as players. They were trying to rebuild, adding 3 very raw FRPs plus the youngish Grant and Jackson. It was just
1. Poorly executed because they made mediocre picks and
2. Misevaluated their current players (giving away a guy like Brown for nothing)
3. They actually robbed their future to get those picks. Bulls fans, take note!

That last part is crazy, because now, years later, they're still the worst team in the league, and they're still encumbered by those moves. Like, they're going to end up giving up a pick that's like #10 in 2026 so they could get Isaiah Stewart in 2020. And I'm higher on him than most guys who are centers with a career PER of 13.something, but that's just a bad deal.