Around The NBA : 2023-24 Season #2

[kodo]

He has a strong supporting cast, so no excuses.

Really? I think it's pretty bad compared to some of the other greats. Not a single all-star.
Shaq had Kobe, MVP, top 10 all time.
MJ had Pip, Rodman.
Lebron had Wade, Bosh, Kyrie, Love, Anthony Davis.

Maybe comparable to 1st title Olajuwon, 2nd best player was Mad Max.

[DuckIII]

I am willing to consider Jokic among the top 3 peak-value players in the past 40 years, along with Mike and LeBron.

I would still rank Shaq and Hakeem over him

I’m closer to Ice than you on this one. There’s never been a center like Jokic, ever. He hasn’t just become the greatest passing big man ever. He’s in the conversation for greatest passer ever, period. He’s not a “center you run the offense through”. He plays point guard from the center position. Plus all the other offensive stuff which is also completely bonkers and off the charts.

I don’t just think he’s better than Shaq, I think he’s a lot better than Shaq. Hakeem is a closer call because he was also an outstanding defender, but it’s still Jokic for me.

[Ice Man]

Really? I think it's pretty bad compared to some of the other greats. Not a single all-star.

Hmmm. Murray is a borderline All Star who is a notably better playoff performer, MPJ is an ideal 3rd option, and Aaron Gordon is a fine 4th option. If a player is a generational talent, as I claim that Jokic is, that should be enough to make multiple Finals. In my view, at least.

[MrSparkle]

Bulls outlook:

1. Sign Pat to pennies on the dollar ($36M Coby deal, and hope he actually improves like Coby did)
2. Resign Demar short term (2y) and/or under $30m (or S&T for a respectable return)
3. Dump Zach without taking back horrible salaries (expirings, maybe 2nd rd chips)
4. Luck out with a stud with the 10-15 pick, or trade it. IMHO the draft boards have been funky- the interesting prospects like Salaun, Dillingham, Sheppard, Dalton will likely be gone by the time Bulls pick. I think Filipowski, Clingan are not lotto worthy. Lot of guys in this range also can't shoot for **** (Collier, Dunn, Castle). Would be nonsensical adding another 3-5 year shooting project to a team that already has numerous major shooting projects (Terry, Phillips, ongoing Ayo/Vuc).

The only optimistic/bright side to this, is that things flip in the NBA in a blink of an eye. I thought the Nets were perma-doomed in 2016, and they put together a fun scrappy team... recruited Durant, Kyrie... acquired Harden... and before we knew it, were back to being a perma-doomed team. Absurdly, the Clippers follows a parallel trajectory.

If they can resign Pat and Demar cheap, the team is still stuck in fringe 500 stasis, but atleast the cap is flexible, the vibes are fun, and there's a logical hierarchy. 2Y max for Demar would sync with Vuc's expiration.

Beyond this, despite Coby's jump, the farm is not good enough, unless everybody takes another big jump. If Demar goes, the team can tank in what seems to be a stronger 2025 draft, and keep that protected Spurs pick... while Coby/Ayo/Pat/Bitim/Phillips get a full look. Without Demar, that is certainly a bottom-5 team (feat. Vuc the tank lord).

[Dan Z]

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[sco]

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Wait, I thought he retired when he was here?

[Chi town]

Bulls outlook:

1. Sign Pat to pennies on the dollar ($36M Coby deal, and hope he actually improves like Coby did)
2. Resign Demar short term (2y) and/or under $30m (or S&T for a respectable return)
3. Dump Zach without taking back horrible salaries (expirings, maybe 2nd rd chips)
4. Luck out with a stud with the 10-15 pick, or trade it. IMHO the draft boards have been funky- the interesting prospects like Salaun, Dillingham, Sheppard, Dalton will likely be gone by the time Bulls pick. I think Filipowski, Clingan are not lotto worthy. Lot of guys in this range also can't shoot for **** (Collier, Dunn, Castle). Would be nonsensical adding another 3-5 year shooting project to a team that already has numerous major shooting projects (Terry, Phillips, ongoing Ayo/Vuc).

The only optimistic/bright side to this, is that things flip in the NBA in a blink of an eye. I thought the Nets were perma-doomed in 2016, and they put together a fun scrappy team... recruited Durant, Kyrie... acquired Harden... and before we knew it, were back to being a perma-doomed team. Absurdly, the Clippers follows a parallel trajectory.

If they can resign Pat and Demar cheap, the team is still stuck in fringe 500 stasis, but atleast the cap is flexible, the vibes are fun, and there's a logical hierarchy. 2Y max for Demar would sync with Vuc's expiration.

Beyond this, despite Coby's jump, the farm is not good enough, unless everybody takes another big jump. If Demar goes, the team can tank in what seems to be a stronger 2025 draft, and keep that protected Spurs pick... while Coby/Ayo/Pat/Bitim/Phillips get a full look. Without Demar, that is certainly a bottom-5 team (feat. Vuc the tank lord).

Only way DDR signs a 2 yr deal is if he gets PAID.

He will hunting a most money deal which will include years. Probably 4. May settle for 3.

[drosestruts]

Bulls outlook:

1. Sign Pat to pennies on the dollar ($36M Coby deal, and hope he actually improves like Coby did)
2. Resign Demar short term (2y) and/or under $30m (or S&T for a respectable return)
3. Dump Zach without taking back horrible salaries (expirings, maybe 2nd rd chips)
4. Luck out with a stud with the 10-15 pick, or trade it. IMHO the draft boards have been funky- the interesting prospects like Salaun, Dillingham, Sheppard, Dalton will likely be gone by the time Bulls pick. I think Filipowski, Clingan are not lotto worthy. Lot of guys in this range also can't shoot for **** (Collier, Dunn, Castle). Would be nonsensical adding another 3-5 year shooting project to a team that already has numerous major shooting projects (Terry, Phillips, ongoing Ayo/Vuc).

The only optimistic/bright side to this, is that things flip in the NBA in a blink of an eye. I thought the Nets were perma-doomed in 2016, and they put together a fun scrappy team... recruited Durant, Kyrie... acquired Harden... and before we knew it, were back to being a perma-doomed team. Absurdly, the Clippers follows a parallel trajectory.

If they can resign Pat and Demar cheap, the team is still stuck in fringe 500 stasis, but atleast the cap is flexible, the vibes are fun, and there's a logical hierarchy. 2Y max for Demar would sync with Vuc's expiration.

Beyond this, despite Coby's jump, the farm is not good enough, unless everybody takes another big jump. If Demar goes, the team can tank in what seems to be a stronger 2025 draft, and keep that protected Spurs pick... while Coby/Ayo/Pat/Bitim/Phillips get a full look. Without Demar, that is certainly a bottom-5 team (feat. Vuc the tank lord).

Only way DDR signs a 2 yr deal is if he gets PAID.

He will hunting a most money deal which will include years. Probably 4. May settle for 3.

If it takes a 4th year to get DeMar to agree to a team friendly AAV - i'd probably do it. Everything about this guy to me screams he's a hard worker who will continue to put in the worth to be ready to play. And his game isn't overly reliant on athleticism like when he was younger.

We see players conitnue to play well at older ages, and I don't see why DeMar wouldn't be one of those players

[Chi town]

All the numbers show that DDR is really declining.

I think AK will try to sign him to 2/60 to match Vuc’s timeline.

[drosestruts]

All the numbers show that DDR is really declining.

I think AK will try to sign him to 2/60 to match Vuc’s timeline.

Genuinely curious - because I'm not seeing it. Can you provide the numbers showing DeMar is "really declining"?

[DASMACKDOWN]

Just curious to the guys that either want to let Demar walk or only pay Demar on a short contract.

In Miami's case, should they also let Jimmy walk or pay Jimmy only on a short contract? They are the same age.

Demar is a lot more durable and lethal scorer.

Jimmy is a much better defender and playoff performer.

[Dan Z]

Just curious to the guys that either want to let Demar walk or only pay Demar on a short contract.

In Miami's case, should they also let Jimmy walk or pay Jimmy only on a short contract? They are the same age.

Demar is a lot more durable and lethal scorer.

Jimmy is a much better defender and playoff performer.

The difference is that Butler has lead the Heat to the finals twice and the eastern conference finals once (in 4 seasons. I didn't count this year because it's TBD).

He's also under contract for one more year and Miami is a destination that players want to go to. When his contract is up I think Miami should try to get him on a short deal if possible. Giving him a 4 year deal at the age of 36 wouldn't be a smart move IMO.

I like DDR, but one reason why many people want to move on is because they want the team to move in a different direction. Last year the Bulls finished in 9th place (40 wins) and will probably finish around the same this year.

My two cents is that I have mixed thoughts about DDR. AK isn't going to rebuild and re-signing DDR is what I think they'll do. I'd feel better about it if the team had a good young player to build around (they don't...Coby and Ayo are good, but not at the level I'm talking about).

[kodo]

Rooting for Gafford to break Wilt's record tonight.

[Ice Man]

I'd like to return to Jokic. It's always tough to assess players when they are still in their 20s. No matter what their greatness, their career accomplishments cannot match the best players of the past. And one is always wary of overselling the kings of the moment.

But Jokic, I submit, deserves that special treatment. Here are the regular-season career leaders for several stats that attempt a player's full contributions (since 1980) -

VORP, per game -

1) Jordan
2) LeBron
3) Jokic

Win Shares per 48 minutes -

1) Jordan
2) Jokic
3) David Robinson

Box Score +/-, per game

1) Jokic
2) Jordan
3) LeBron

PER, per game -

1) Jokic
2) Jordan
3) LeBron

Just saying.

[Repeat 3-peat]

Rooting for Gafford to break Wilt's record tonight.

Read on Twitter

So close.

[Dan Z]

"76ers planning to sign Kai Jones to 10-day deal, sources say"

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39733802/76ers-planning-sign-kai-jones-10-day-deal-sources-say

[drosestruts]

"76ers planning to sign Kai Jones to 10-day deal, sources say"

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39733802/76ers-planning-sign-kai-jones-10-day-deal-sources-say

I'm crushed.

[Charlesareed]

The suns are so bad if they make the playoffs they will win 1 game at best unless they play a the kings or twolves

[jordanwilliams6]

Damn Bam just made a great 3 point game winner over the Pistons.

I think the Heat might me too hard to catch for the 8th seed. Our best chance will be to catch the 76ers if they keep struggling before Embiid returns.

[Dan Z]

Damn Bam just made a great 3 point game winner over the Pistons.

I think the Heat might me too hard to catch for the 8th seed. Our best chance will be to catch the 76ers if they keep struggling before Embiid returns.

Philly has 15 more games to go and the Bulls have 14.

In their last ten games the Bulls are 6-4 and Philly is 4-6. If they keep that percentage then the teams will finish with this record:

Philly: 43-39
Bulls: 41 or 42 wins

At best it'll be close, but realistically there aren't enough games left.