Zach trade thread #2

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

Whether the timing of this surgery is orchestrated or coincidental, it cements Zach as one of the 5 worst contracts in the league. Though you could argue he was there already.

Beal’s is unquestionably worse.

Ben Simmons is useless but he expires in 2025.

Poole is a worse player making significantly less money. Let’s say for the sake of argument his is worse.

Not sure who else is even in the ballpark. Jaylen Brown is obv laughable as a comp now.

Lonzo Ball, lol

He deserves a mention, sadly. But I’m guessing teams would more readily assume his contract (2024-25 PO) than Zach’s at this point.

[Wingy]

We could have reset this team 2 seasons ago, and we could have theoretically been in a similar situation this year, but with a legitimate group of young players, and ideally more draft capital.

While I personally had weak faith in Lonzo coming back immediately after the initial injury, I can sorta understand them thinking he’d be back eventually.

However, the absolutely back-breaking, F-earning, indescribably dumb and unforgivable sin was the trade deadline last year and failing to act then. Going for the playin instead of going for the draft. Even if they wanted to try to run it back, not going for Wemby in a lost season where getting crushed in the first round was the absolute potential zenith…completely mind boggling.

[Salo23]

I don’t see why a deal with Detroit centered around Bojan + Harris (expiring deals, Bojan only guaranteed $2M next year) couldn’t still go through despite Zach’s surgery.

Detroit is gunning for another top pick and developing their young talent, Zach being injured doesn’t affect either of those goals for this season. They will have all this cap space and no one willing to sign there, which is one of the reasons in theory why they would even consider taking a chance on Zach in the first place, since he is locked in on a current contract and wouldn’t have considered signing with them as a free agent otherwise.

It would be somewhat like Philly taking an injured Embiid / Ben Simmons and punting their goal of winning more games for another season while ensuring better draft position.

Or Houston giving up (3) 2nd round picks for an injured Steven Adams. Adams wouldn’t be able to contribute anything until the 2024/2025 season at the earliest, and there is no guarantee he will be recovered and the same player either as he turns 31 in July. Houston still did the trade for Adams with future seasons in mind and ignored the fact he won’t be able to contribute at all in the short-term.

[Salo23]

We could have reset this team 2 seasons ago, and we could have theoretically been in a similar situation this year, but with a legitimate group of young players, and ideally more draft capital.

While I personally had weak faith in Lonzo coming back immediately after the initial injury, I can sorta understand them thinking he’d be back eventually.

However, the absolutely back-breaking, F-earning, indescribably dumb and unforgivable sin was the trade deadline last year and failing to act then. Going for the playin instead of going for the draft. Even if they wanted to try to run it back, not going for Wemby in a lost season where getting crushed in the first round was the absolute potential zenith…completely mind boggling.

AK in the post trade deadline presser last year said his players had value around the league, then claimed “there were too many buyers” as a reason for not making any deals, lol.

[Dan Z]

I don’t see why a deal with Detroit centered around Bojan + Harris (expiring deals, Bojan only guaranteed $2M next year) couldn’t still go through despite Zach’s surgery.

Detroit is gunning for another top pick and developing their young talent, Zach being injured doesn’t affect either of those goals for this season. They will have all this cap space and no one willing to sign there, which is one of the reasons in theory why they would even consider taking a chance on Zach in the first place, since he is locked in on a current contract and wouldn’t have considered signing with them as a free agent otherwise.

It would be somewhat like Philly taking an injured Embiid / Ben Simmons and punting their goal of winning more games for another season while ensuring better draft position.

Or Houston giving up (3) 2nd round picks for an injured Steven Adams. Adams wouldn’t be able to contribute anything until the 2024/2025 season at the earliest, and there is no guarantee he will be recovered and the same player either as he turns 31 in July. Houston still did the trade for Adams with future seasons in mind and ignored the fact he won’t be able to contribute at all in the short-term.

The Embiid and Simmon situations were when they were draft picks. Zach is a 10 year vet, so everyone already knows the kind of player that he is. Plus he has a max contract.

Houston did the Adams trade because they had contracts to match (something they might not have next year).

I think Detroit can re-visit this and trade for Zach in the off season if they want to.

[kodo]

This might have been before the surgery news.

Read on Twitter

?t=unF-9oFydqZI2LHjKTbo_g

[Wingy]

AK in the post trade deadline presser last year said his players had value around the league, then claimed “there were too many buyers” as a reason for not making any deals, lol.

Oh, I remember and mock that saying regularly. The sad part is it’s true, and it’s still very true.

Yet instead of pivoting and thinking, “whoa, so many teams shopping….hmmm….maybe I should reconsider my world view of this team given the circumstances...”

But nah. Dat playin!!!

[fleet]

Spoiler:

This might have been before the surgery news.

Read on Twitter

?t=unF-9oFydqZI2LHjKTbo_g

That means he is just as good as those guys. Misunderstood.

[HomoSapien]

This might have been before the surgery news.

Read on Twitter

?t=unF-9oFydqZI2LHjKTbo_g

I do think that at this point, the most realistic plan is to get Billy Donovan and Zach LaVine in a room and just have them hash out their differences. Sixers did it with Iverson and Larry Brown. Obviously, there's no guarantee that it'll work, but Zach has next to no trade value and BD isn't going anywhere either. As much as I believe we need a change, we are also asset-poor and Zach is the most talented player on the roster. He's also not old.

A trade at one point seemed like the easy way out, but now it's not an option. Rebuilding the relationship is going to be the fastest way to rebuilding his value to the team and around the league.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

I don’t see why a deal with Detroit centered around Bojan + Harris (expiring deals, Bojan only guaranteed $2M next year) couldn’t still go through despite Zach’s surgery.

Detroit is gunning for another top pick and developing their young talent, Zach being injured doesn’t affect either of those goals for this season. They will have all this cap space and no one willing to sign there, which is one of the reasons in theory why they would even consider taking a chance on Zach in the first place, since he is locked in on a current contract and wouldn’t have considered signing with them as a free agent otherwise.

It would be somewhat like Philly taking an injured Embiid / Ben Simmons and punting their goal of winning more games for another season while ensuring better draft position.

Or Houston giving up (3) 2nd round picks for an injured Steven Adams. Adams wouldn’t be able to contribute anything until the 2024/2025 season at the earliest, and there is no guarantee he will be recovered and the same player either as he turns 31 in July. Houston still did the trade for Adams with future seasons in mind and ignored the fact he won’t be able to contribute at all in the short-term.

Why would they offer anything of value for Zach now when they could test the free agency waters this summer and revisit Zach trade if they strike out? They’re his only suitors. That deal isn’t going anywhere.

[Wingy]

I do think that at this point, the most realistic plan is to get Billy Donovan and Zach LaVine in a room and just have them hash out their differences. Sixers did it with Iverson and Larry Brown. Obviously, there's no guarantee that it'll work, but Zach has next to no trade value and BD isn't going anywhere either. As much as I believe we need a change, we are also asset-poor and Zach is the most talented player on the roster. He's also not old.

A trade at one point seemed like the easy way out, but now it's not an option. Rebuilding the relationship is going to be the fastest way to rebuilding his value to the team and around the league.

Bruh. Don’t be irrational.

Handling issues like adults is not the way of the Bulls. We let all time greats and dynasties publicly feud and hate each others guts.

Then we let a best record in the league, CotY who always wrings the most out of the roster get to the hatred point w/the FO…clearly learning absolutely nothing from the first situation. The owner embarrassingly piled on FFS.

Why we gonna pay any mind to by comparison - two relative chumps like Billy and Zach?

Meh. Bulls BAU. Why do I root for this team still? Thread-worthy at some point, someday when the mood strikes.
(coldfish, you really hit a nerve for me after that whole ring of shame debacle).

[nekorajo]

From AKME's perspective this is still a good time to trade Zach. The expectations may never be lower. They've tested the waters for over a year. The NBA established that Zach's value was low while healthy, and it's even lower now that he's electing to have surgery. Who reasonably expects AKME to win a Zach trade right now? No one. Their reputation won't take a big hit if they don't bring back equal talent right now.

On the other hand, if Zach is healthy and still on this team next season, expectations will rise for a higher return. For their own sake, the front office should probably follow through with moving Zach at the deadline.

[drosestruts]

Spoiler:

This might have been before the surgery news.

Read on Twitter

?t=unF-9oFydqZI2LHjKTbo_g

That means he is just as good as those guys. Misunderstood.

I think Zach is certainly misunderstood. How many of those player's teammates over the past three years alone would you rank as better than any of Zach's teammates?

Paul George
Kyrie Irving
Kevin Durant
James Harden
Luka Doncic
Devin Booker
CP3

and then maybe you have DeRozan

Then probably a number of other guys before the next Bull (Caruso) and then a whole bunch more other guys

It's clear to me, if comparing LaVine vs these guys, you have to add the context that their teams are better.

[ChiTownHero1992]

Spoiler:

This might have been before the surgery news.

Read on Twitter

?t=unF-9oFydqZI2LHjKTbo_g

That means he is just as good as those guys. Misunderstood.

I think Zach is certainly misunderstood. How many of those player's teammates over the past three years alone would you rank as better than any of Zach's teammates?

Paul George
Kyrie Irving
Kevin Durant
James Harden
Luka Doncic
Devin Booker
CP3

and then maybe you have DeRozan

Then probably a number of other guys before the next Bull (Caruso) and then a whole bunch more other guys

It's clear to me, if comparing LaVine vs these guys, you have to add the context that their teams are better.

At the same rate, and under the same logic, place Zach Lavine on a team with any number of said "better players" and I doubt he averages close to those numbers, in fact I think he dips drastically. The guy is a 3rd option on a championship team if you ask me. This is the Kevin Love/Chris Bosh effect all over again, Love put up amazing stats and numbers in MInny, goes to Cavs and looks like an above-average starter, Chris Bosh puts up amazing numbers on Toronto, goes to Miami and is 3rd fiddle. Lavine with better players in my book would make him look arguably worse than what he has looked so far.

[drosestruts]

Spoiler:

That means he is just as good as those guys. Misunderstood.

I think Zach is certainly misunderstood. How many of those player's teammates over the past three years alone would you rank as better than any of Zach's teammates?

Paul George
Kyrie Irving
Kevin Durant
James Harden
Luka Doncic
Devin Booker
CP3

and then maybe you have DeRozan

Then probably a number of other guys before the next Bull (Caruso) and then a whole bunch more other guys

It's clear to me, if comparing LaVine vs these guys, you have to add the context that their teams are better.

At the same rate, and under the same logic, place Zach Lavine on a team with any number of said "better players" and I doubt he averages close to those numbers, in fact I think he dips drastically. The guy is a 3rd option on a championship team if you ask me. This is the Kevin Love/Chris Bosh effect all over again, Love put up amazing stats and numbers in MInny, goes to Cavs and looks like an above-average starter, Chris Bosh puts up amazing numbers on Toronto, goes to Miami and is 3rd fiddle. Lavine with better players in my book would make him look arguably worse than what he has looked so far.

I think the biggest selling point of LaVine is his effeciency. While his total output might lessen on a more talented roster, I think his effeciency would look even better, and it's already elite.

Also I feel like this is some revisionist history on Bosh and Love. These were both key contributors to championship rosters. Those teams don't win their titles without them.

[ChiTownHero1992]

I think Zach is certainly misunderstood. How many of those player's teammates over the past three years alone would you rank as better than any of Zach's teammates?

Paul George
Kyrie Irving
Kevin Durant
James Harden
Luka Doncic
Devin Booker
CP3

and then maybe you have DeRozan

Then probably a number of other guys before the next Bull (Caruso) and then a whole bunch more other guys

It's clear to me, if comparing LaVine vs these guys, you have to add the context that their teams are better.

At the same rate, and under the same logic, place Zach Lavine on a team with any number of said "better players" and I doubt he averages close to those numbers, in fact I think he dips drastically. The guy is a 3rd option on a championship team if you ask me. This is the Kevin Love/Chris Bosh effect all over again, Love put up amazing stats and numbers in MInny, goes to Cavs and looks like an above-average starter, Chris Bosh puts up amazing numbers on Toronto, goes to Miami and is 3rd fiddle. Lavine with better players in my book would make him look arguably worse than what he has looked so far.

I think the biggest selling point of LaVine is his effeciency. While his total output might lessen on a more talented roster, I think his effeciency would look even better, and it's already elite.

Also I feel like this is some revisionist history on Bosh and Love. These were both key contributors to championship rosters. Those teams don't win their titles without them.

Sure he is efficient but as i said he is no more than a 3rd option, his output would drop and likely quite a bit with what a team would need to put around him. If he was 3rd option on Lakers or Clippers, likely his best scenarios to win at this point, there is no way he'd be even close to the output he has now or has ever had in chicago. Love and Bosh both declined significantly upon becoming the 3rd option and I truly think Lavine would do the exact same thing.

Bosh in 09-10 is way better than than Bosh in 10-11, and again his next best season post-Toronto 14-15 when he became option 2 and they weren't winning anymore
Love in 13-14 is astronomically better than Love in 14-15