How Bad are AKME?

[pipfan]

I keep reading how terrible our FO is, stupid and . I don't see it that way. Now, I'm not happy with where we're at (I am well known on the Trade board for my Bulls' blowup posts). But, let's look at this closely:

1-It's very possible the ownership will not allow any type of blow up, and they're limited in the moves they can make
2-It's also possible that they are philosphically opposed to bottoming out, and there's logic in that. We are an average team right now, and we're not Det.
3-Two years ago I think they were the best FO ever. With Ball, we were super fun and the surprise of the league. I thought they should have won EoY unanimously if there was a mid-season vote.

So, they have made some good moves (Caruso, White extension, Drummond, Craig, DDR, Ayo pick), some bad moves (Vuc trade, Terry pick, Donovan extension, Lauri trade-in hindsight) and some "eh" moves (Carter signing, PWill pick, Lavine extension, hiring Donovan).

Overall, I would rate them a "C". I was actually on board with the Vuc trade, but with only 1 first (maybe we tank last year for Wemby without the pick debt?). How about you? I've done this before, but I think the opinion has dropped this year further

[Hangtime84]

Just as we praise Krause for getting an all-nba and all-star in a trade. We should bash AKME for following move that lost ours.

We had big hole in our PF rotation after losing Niko and Bobby Portis. We tripled down on it by letting go of the last one Lauri.

I give them a C even with championship contention franchises there’s still screw ups. Lakers with Zubac. Philly choosing keeping Simmons and Harris over Jimmy. Miami netting Kyle Lowry in free agency.

Good luck recovering from that.

[DuckIII]

I gave them an F, which they earned last trade deadline and unsurprisingly have not recovered from in the least. Indeed, the situation is even more dire given what appears to be a nosedive in Zach’s value since then.

That said they are not without some legitimate successes. Sticking with Coby, a guy they did not draft and who looked like poo when they arrived, has paid off incredibly, incredibly well. And the drafting of Ayo has been a huge success. As has been the Caruso signing who has grown in value significantly.

So you could make a good argument that my F may be too harsh.

[ScrantonBulls]

Just as we praise Krause for getting an all-nba and all-star in a trade. We should bash AKME for following move that lost ours.

We had big hole in our PF rotation after losing Niko and Bobby Portis. We tripled down on it by letting go of the last one Lauri.

I give them a C even with championship contention franchises there’s still screw ups. Lakers with Zubac. Philly choosing keeping Simmons and Harris over Jimmy. Miami netting Kyle Lowry in free agency.

Good luck recovering from that.

People here legitimately think Krause was a bad GM. It's mind boggling to me.

To answer your question, AKME is horrendous. I don't see how you can give them anything better than an F. They've ruined the Bulls present and future. There's not much to be hopeful about.

[dougthonus]

They're not Isiah Thomas or Billy King bad, but man they aren't far off.

Their overarching strategy was deeply flawed from the beginning, and they have so much sunk cost fallacy based thinking that they can't move off of it.

[dougthonus]

I gave them an F, which they earned last trade deadline and unsurprisingly have not recovered from in the least. Indeed, the situation is even more dire given what appears to be a nosedive in Zach’s value since then.

That said they are not without some legitimate successes. Sticking with Coby, a guy they did not draft and who looked like poo when they arrived, has paid off incredibly, incredibly well. And the drafting of Ayo has been a huge success. As has been the Caruso signing who has grown in value significantly.

So you could make a good argument that my F may be too harsh.

I also went F.

I think Caruso was an amazing signing. Coby was a guy they were reportedly shopping forever and just couldn't find an offer better than a 2nd for, was good to keep him, but it feels like they just sort of lucked into it. They seemed to not give him opportunities or believe in him his entire time here. Ayo was like 10 draft slots behind his expected range, and so while a good pick, was so clearly the best player on the board that it was a no brainer.

From a macro level
1: Overall probably do not have more talent than what they started with
2: Overall have significantly decreased financial flexibility
3: Overall have decreased long term assets in favor of short term assets
4: Appear to strategically aim for the 1st round and have failed to meet that very modest goal 2 of 3 years
5: Hang on to players that we obviously should move due to sunk cost fallacy lower their value
6: Overall, their execution is generally "just overpay" in both trades and contracts, even their successful moves were generally viewed as overpays relative to the market at the point they were made

It's just hard to look at anything they have done from a strategic standpoint (which is their primary goal) and think it makes any sense. It's just a pile of sunk cost fallacy and fundamental attribution error. On an operational level, they have made some good moves as you mention, but a lot of the operational stuff is always hit and miss and luck based. When you look at their overall thought of how they go about what they did, it leaves me with no confidence that they'll do better even with better execution.

[ChettheJet]

They biggest thing that they suffer from is the injury to Lonzo Ball.

To me they made a good pick with Patrick Williams. It was ahead of schedule when he started as a rookie but they weren't expecting him to catapult to stardom, just get experience as a 19 year old.

Year two for PWill would likely have seen him grow especially with the additions of Demar DeRozan and Lonzo. But he got hurt and missed virtually all of the season. The Bulls could have dealt with that as a minor setback but when Lonzo Ball got hurt they were a ship with a broken rudder. And they have never recovered.

I don't understand why they didn't go get a PF to replace Williams or didn't play Derrick Jones jr. Obviously Simonovic was nothing, Alize Johnson was close to nothing, maybe they just didn't trust their own judgement to find somebody capable. The Billy insisted on playing Javonte Green and Caruso at the 4 and why he continues to want to start AC with his minutes limited waiting for his next injury I just don't get.

But with a healthy Ball I just see the whole situation being different, he would have kept Coby White as the 6th man for those two years and his defense, passing and shooting would have compensated for the lack of size at the PF. When Williams returned they might not have given Lavine the max deal, doing a S&T then have Coby start next to Ball, PWill at the 4.

As I see it, they had the plan after trading for Vuc, they didn't need those two picks because they added Ball and DeRozan to have a veteran team with Coby and Patrick as the youngsters. Bi without Ball, no picks for those 2 years and Patrick held the 1 year, they didn't have the assets to make a correction in the plan

[PaKii94]

Only one thing exceeding expectations - signing Caruso.

1-3 things meeting expectations

Rest are below expectations.

I'd say D

Garpax went from like C+ to C-. Their biggest flaw was they weren't risk takers.


Demar was a slight over pay

Vuc utter failure

PWill underwhelming

Ayo pleasent surprise but no brainer

Terry underwhelming

Lonzo was decent target but they knew about his injury history so the mitigations were utter failure

Lavine handling is a failure. Sure they gave him a contract but they should have known his impact (lack thereof of winning)

Lauri handling was a failure

Hiring BD very meh.

Roster construction with no PG and then no 4s is a big failure.

Drafting meh

Asset management failure

[HearshotKDS]

I went with D, they have by and large failed at what they were (allegedly) brought in to do, the team has not been competitive since Lonzo went down forever - AKME have not been able to pivot off their plan even when the writing is seemingly on the wall - and they traded away 2 years worth of draft picks to do so - in my mind the only meaningful lotto tickets the team had to meaningfully improve beyond their current roster. I also firmly believe that Haliburton looked like such a GarPax pick I was almost sure the Bulls would take him at 4 - i subconsciously hold that against them and that may or may not be fair.

It feels like the team is headed right back to the situation that AKME inherited of needing another rebuild but with less picks, less financial flexibility, and Coby may not be as good of a "young talent" as Lauri was at the time and is right now. Im no expert but it feels like they've burned a bunch of resources for a magical half of a 46-36 season but the team is now further behind than it was when they arrived.

[Kurt Heimlich]

They're the bottom of the barrell. D if you feel bad for giving an F in a "it could always be worse" kinda mindset. But really, they are F as F gets for their station in this league.

[PaKii94]

They're the bottom of the barrell. D if you feel bad for giving an F in a "it could always be worse" kinda mindset. But really, they are F as F gets for their station in this league.

F to me is no assets, no prospects, locked into big money contacts, losing culture.

This team is close but it has a few things going for it that don't warrant a full on F

[Narigo]

D+ should have kept Lauri and Gafford and not trade for Vuc. Caruso signing was the only good thing they did

[Dez]

A for the original team they built and how they played.

C for the lack of adjustments after the Ball injury and management of that injury.

Definitely not as bad as people are saying given what they built originally but the lack of willingness to alter plans after is the biggest issue for me.

[Dez]

D+ should have kept Lauri and Gafford and not trade for Vuc. Caruso signing was the only good thing they did

Lauri stagnated here and wasn't worth the contract he wanted at the time. Absolutely worth it now but this is hindsight.

Also Gafford is as meh as it gets.

[Charlesareed]

I give them a c- but they deserve a d- they have to know the team is small why not sign a big pf or trade for one even if it is Thad young smh how can they just sit on there asses when it’s showing every game


They need to trade Zach while tbwy have value trade drum AC & demar unless you plan on resigning him also Carter & vuc need to go aswell maybe trade Craig and cut taylor keep Coby paw & ayo build off that it’s plenty teams who have pf that aren’t being used the center looks gonna be tuff unless they take a filler on james wisemen of all people

[PaKii94]

D+ should have kept Lauri and Gafford and not trade for Vuc. Caruso signing was the only good thing they did

Lauri stagnated here and wasn't worth the contract he wanted at the time. Absolutely worth it now but this is hindsight.

Also Gafford is as meh as it gets.

Lauri was at 19/6 on 67%TS as the starting PF before the Vuc trade with 4th-5th option touches. Shooting 43% at 7 3PApg.That WAS worth the $16 mil he was asking for. His image was just tainted as the scapegoat for the Zach Lavine lead teams. He stagnated because the team went away from him. That's not his fault.


If PWill averages those numbers right now people would want to throw $30 mil at him

[Dan Z]

I keep reading how terrible our FO is, stupid and . I don't see it that way. Now, I'm not happy with where we're at (I am well known on the Trade board for my Bulls' blowup posts). But, let's look at this closely:

1-It's very possible the ownership will not allow any type of blow up, and they're limited in the moves they can make
2-It's also possible that they are philosphically opposed to bottoming out, and there's logic in that. We are an average team right now, and we're not Det.
3-Two years ago I think they were the best FO ever. With Ball, we were super fun and the surprise of the league. I thought they should have won EoY unanimously if there was a mid-season vote.

So, they have made some good moves (Caruso, White extension, Drummond, Craig, DDR, Ayo pick), some bad moves (Vuc trade, Terry pick, Donovan extension, Lauri trade-in hindsight) and some "eh" moves (Carter signing, PWill pick, Lavine extension, hiring Donovan).

Overall, I would rate them a "C". I was actually on board with the Vuc trade, but with only 1 first (maybe we tank last year for Wemby without the pick debt?). How about you? I've done this before, but I think the opinion has dropped this year further

Regarding what I put in bold above...I doubt it. When AK picked PW at #4 he said that he never wants to pick that high again.

It makes me think that he believes he can find good players late in the draft and through trades.

[prolific passer]

D+ should have kept Lauri and Gafford and not trade for Vuc. Caruso signing was the only good thing they did

Lauri stagnated here and wasn't worth the contract he wanted at the time. Absolutely worth it now but this is hindsight.

Also Gafford is as meh as it gets.

Gafford is on a lot of teams radar right now because of his defense and efficiency.

[MrSparkle]

I saw most the logic in their moves; seemed like mostly smart moves. Vuc in short hindsight was very bad.

The Vuc trade was a disaster in every related way. Amazing how 1 strike actually turned into 3 strikes (permanent defensive liability that the coach must plan around, decision to dump Lauri/Thad/Wendell/Gafford, giving up Franz and another) but if there’s one thing that bothers me… it’s that Vuc’s still the starting C, going into season #4. He’s woefully inadequate and should be a 6th man or traded for peanuts; move on from this colossal mistake. At this point, the only trade return you’re getting is a lucky break — aka, might as well be another great MLE signing like Caruso.

Little moves… I mean, I see the value in a P-Bev, Goran… didn’t want to see Jevon pursued, but even then, there’s value from a locker-room/mentorship angle. Whatever Coby took away from them was a plus, and they cost very little.

But it was mostly concerning that all these years into the mess, they actually thought Jevon was going to be the better version of P-Bev we needed to off-set Lonzo. OK- maybe they didn’t think that. But if not, then why in god’s name didn’t they pursue a forward who could shoot? Or a rim protector?

The athleticism and length of this team is bottom-5. It’s like worst of the GarPax builds, all over again. I’m actually stunned we’re here again. Undersized and/or a step slow to league average at every single position on the floor. And poor at shooting, too? Why are they tripling down on the exact type of lame roster we struggled to get out the 1st rd with, for 20 years? What happened to whatever AK was involved with in Denver?

It’s actually mind-boggling when you think about it. It’s like Arturas watched tape of the 2006 Bulls, and decided he wants to rebuild that.

Anyway, kinda getting to the end-game here. The chess board is down to a few pawns and bishops. I’m pretty down on what Zach will fetch. A cheap Pat resign at best means we secure an improving 10 PER single digit prospect to a short extension (like Coby), at worst, he never pans out into top-4 pick potential. Coby’s improvement is great and all, but he still has ways to go. Despite AK saying Phillips will contribute… surprise… Billy has him at under 99 minutes for the season, with a promising 34% TS and 3.2 PER (warning low sample size).

Sigh… I want my cake (Caruso and Demar help win games) and I want to eat it too (prospects develop), like Miami, but they just don’t seem to be connecting on any hits.

[GoBlue72391]

I gave them a very generous D.