Bears 2024 2.0

[fleet]

I don’t know who the “insider” is, this guy, or the “source”

Read on Twitter

I have found nothing about what the offer could be.
Number of people around were taking it as if it has legitimacy as an incident. For example:

Read on Twitter

Could all be a telephone game.

fields stans think the BEARS have a bad OL? whoooooo-ee! what're they gonna say when he's running for his life next season like daniel jones was this season? 85 sacks that line gave up! 2nd most since the stat was created! he finally just gave up and faked an injury:

Watch on YouTube

no way the giants make that trade. totally pointless

What a lame post. Do the Bears have a good offensive line. Do you want to bring Caleb Williams in with the exact same roster on offense. Get outta here with this nonsense.

I don’t want to be involved, or start anything with Bagent. But Bagent did demonstrate that the line is at least adequate in PP when the ball gets out of the quarterback’s hands in league average time. Once the center arrives, the line can be more than adequate. Caleb can play on-time football. The only question is willingness/coachability.

Going back to Brees, this is what I see in my minds eye that Caleb will be all about in the NFL

Read on Twitter

[heir_jordan22]

rams defense avg. ranking since they started paying aaron donald: 15.5

that includes a #15 defense the year they won the super bowl. so why did they win the super bowl? they mortgaged the future by trading draft picks and playing cap gymnastics. super bowl cap hits:

14.4 donald
9.7 ramsey
5.3 cupp
0.7 von miller (picks traded for half season rental)

the next season?

27.0 donald
23.2 ramsey
17.8 cupp
gone von

the chiefs have averaged a #9 defense in the 4 years since they started paying chris jones. 2 of those seasons featured mahomes on a rookie deal, leaving them loads of money to spread around. this season the chiefs had the #2 defense. was that because they were on the hook for a 26.8 cap hit for an elite DT? or because they had cheap, solid starters like LBs bolton and tranquill as well as excellent corners on rookie deals?

and at the risk of stating the obvious, justin madubuike is no aaron donald or chris jones. one good (not even great) season. but you're gonna pay him 100 mil over 4 years? noooooo thank you

What is a great season? He had 13 sacks with 33 qb hits. Chris jones has never had 33 qb hits and donald has surpassed that number only twice. This dude was elite. He had 14 sacks if you incldue the playoffs, which led all DTs.

pass rush is not the only responsibility of an interior defender. he was certainly an elite pass rusher!

And in case you've forgotten, we will have a qb on a rookie contract, as well as a bunch of young cheap corners (outside of Johnson).

in case you never knew it, handing out bad deals is a bad idea regardless of your cap situation

The only issue with our defense is pass rush. There are no elite pass rush prospects in this draft. The DEs in free agency may be franchise tagged, and those who dont get tagged will likely be the older players (Hunter).

if you're only concerned about pass rush, there are much cheaper options than madubuike

You still haven't identified how he didn't have a great season.

There are definitely cheaper options out there. I dont really care what the front office. They can go in 5 different directions at almost every position. But you lost me when you said he didnt have a great year.

[fleet]

After listening to a couple takes about Caleb not getting an agent, it just adds to the uncertainty of picking him. If anything, it won’t help him get to Chicago.

Does not read like that to me. Caleb does not need an agent to negotiate a rookie contract. Now if he changes his mind and does hire an agent then I would worry.

In general, sure. That was my first take. The more I think about it, the more I anticipate what negotiations will look like on his second contract. It should eventually get done, but what will the process be like. **** thru a goose? Or like passing a kidney stone with Lamar Jackson. A pearl-clutching franchise like the Bears will be evaluating that, as much as anything else. So, as I was saying about Drake Maye, he’s got the, that’s what it looks like vibe in terms of what personality type those country club classical McCaskeys might prefer. I don’t want to take this too far. I wish Caleb was more conventional.

[nomorezorro]

i was wary of madubuike as a one-season wonder, but that was admittedly based solely on vibes, so i decided to look into it and found this really detailed reddit post from a ravens fan that does not cast his performance in the best light.

tl;dr - a good number of his individually-earned sacks came against backup OL and backup QBs, he rarely gets double teamed, he doesn't have a particularly noteworthy pass rush win rate. that sack number is still impressive no matter what but it doesn't seem wise to count on him to replicate it, and if he's going to be paid like an all-pro DT i would stay away

[heir_jordan22]

fields stans think the BEARS have a bad OL? whoooooo-ee! what're they gonna say when he's running for his life next season like daniel jones was this season? 85 sacks that line gave up! 2nd most since the stat was created! he finally just gave up and faked an injury:

Watch on YouTube

no way the giants make that trade. totally pointless

What a lame post. Do the Bears have a good offensive line. Do you want to bring Caleb Williams in with the exact same roster on offense. Get outta here with this nonsense.

I don’t want to be involved, or start anything with Bagent. But Bagent did demonstrate that the line is at least adequate in PP when the ball gets out of the quarterback’s hands in league average time. Once the center arrives, the line can be more than adequate. Caleb can play on-time football. The only question is willingness/coachability.

Going back to Brees, this is what I see in my minds eye that Caleb will be all about in the NFL

Read on Twitter

Bagent had 162 yards and 1 TD against LV, threw 0 TDs and 2 INTs against LAC, 2 TDs and 3 INTs the next week against NO, and then 162 yards with 0 TDs against CAR.

I think Tyson Bagent did fine for an undrafted rookie, but i would strongly disagree that his performance showed that the OL was decent. He did get rid of the ball very quickly.

As for the Brees comparison, I like it more than the Mahomes comparison, but I'm standing behind my Kyler Murray comparison.

[dice]

What is a great season? He had 13 sacks with 33 qb hits. Chris jones has never had 33 qb hits and donald has surpassed that number only twice. This dude was elite. He had 14 sacks if you incldue the playoffs, which led all DTs.

pass rush is not the only responsibility of an interior defender. he was certainly an elite pass rusher!

And in case you've forgotten, we will have a qb on a rookie contract, as well as a bunch of young cheap corners (outside of Johnson).

in case you never knew it, handing out bad deals is a bad idea regardless of your cap situation

The only issue with our defense is pass rush. There are no elite pass rush prospects in this draft. The DEs in free agency may be franchise tagged, and those who dont get tagged will likely be the older players (Hunter).

if you're only concerned about pass rush, there are much cheaper options than madubuike

Did you know that some DTs are paid to get sacks?

what was he being paid for prior to this season when he wasn't getting a lot of sacks?

even if you're "paid to get sacks," you are still evaluated in broader terms. some terrific pass rush specialists don't even start

You still haven't identified how he didn't have a great season.

he wasn't getting double teamed much and he wasn't winning the one-on-one battles much either. it just so happened that when he DID win the battle, he managed to track down the QB a lot. there's probably significant luck and schematic reasons for that. he had 13 of his team's 60 total sacks. clearly he was benefitting from the inability of offenses to consistently cover everybody. a lot of very GOOD players can result in an elite defense

and sack rates are highly variable. so...was this a fluke season in terms of headline numbers? how much is a team going to commit in order to find out? i hope that team is not the bears. we are in a very good position right now. no need for costly gambles. especially on linemen

[dice]

i was wary of madubuike as a one-season wonder, but that was admittedly based solely on vibes, so i decided to look into it and found this really detailed reddit post from a ravens fan that does not cast his performance in the best light.

tl;dr - a good number of his individually-earned sacks came against backup OL and backup QBs, he rarely gets double teamed, he doesn't have a particularly noteworthy pass rush win rate. that sack number is still impressive no matter what but it doesn't seem wise to count on him to replicate it, and if he's going to be paid like an all-pro DT i would stay away

FWIW, some PFF interior defender ratings for 2023:

93.0 lawrence
90.8 donald
90.6 q williams

84.1 jones

75.1 madubuike

[fleet]

What a lame post. Do the Bears have a good offensive line. Do you want to bring Caleb Williams in with the exact same roster on offense. Get outta here with this nonsense.

I don’t want to be involved, or start anything with Bagent. But Bagent did demonstrate that the line is at least adequate in PP when the ball gets out of the quarterback’s hands in league average time. Once the center arrives, the line can be more than adequate. Caleb can play on-time football. The only question is willingness/coachability.

Going back to Brees, this is what I see in my minds eye that Caleb will be all about in the NFL

Read on Twitter

Bagent had 162 yards and 1 TD against LV, threw 0 TDs and 2 INTs against LAC, 2 TDs and 3 INTs the next week against NO, and then 162 yards with 0 TDs against CAR.

I think Tyson Bagent did fine for an undrafted rookie, but i would strongly disagree that his performance showed that the OL was decent. He did get rid of the ball very quickly.

As for the Brees comparison, I like it more than the Mahomes comparison, but I'm standing behind my Kyler Murray comparison.

In terms of evaluating the O-line, Bagent’s passing numbers are not the illustrative issue. His sack totals and pressures were the issue. Or should I say, they were a non issue for Bagent. Half of what Fields was dealing with. A big issue for Justin. The line was adequate in pass pro as defined by pressures and sacks for Bagent because he got rid of the rock. Where, and how far it went is a separate question.

On comparisons, one man’s thoughts:

My goodness did Nate hit it out of the park with a comp that many seem to struggle with

Kyler's faster
Aaron Rodgers/Patrick Mahomes too lofty (unrealistic)
Baker is selling Caleb short

Hell, Nate even outdid me with my Dak "Gone Wild" comp

This (Brees) is as good as it's going to get

[heir_jordan22]

I don’t want to be involved, or start anything with Bagent. But Bagent did demonstrate that the line is at least adequate in PP when the ball gets out of the quarterback’s hands in league average time. Once the center arrives, the line can be more than adequate. Caleb can play on-time football. The only question is willingness/coachability.

Going back to Brees, this is what I see in my minds eye that Caleb will be all about in the NFL

Read on Twitter

Bagent had 162 yards and 1 TD against LV, threw 0 TDs and 2 INTs against LAC, 2 TDs and 3 INTs the next week against NO, and then 162 yards with 0 TDs against CAR.

I think Tyson Bagent did fine for an undrafted rookie, but i would strongly disagree that his performance showed that the OL was decent. He did get rid of the ball very quickly.

As for the Brees comparison, I like it more than the Mahomes comparison, but I'm standing behind my Kyler Murray comparison.

In terms of evaluating the O-line, Bagent’s passing numbers are not the illustrative issue. His sack totals and pressures were the issue. Or should I say, they were a non issue for Bagent. Half of what Fields was dealing with. A big issue for Justin. The line was adequate in pass pro as defined by pressures and sacks for Bagent because he got rid of the rock. Where, and how far it went is a separate question.

On comparisons, one man’s thoughts:

My goodness did Nate hit it out of the park with a comp that many seem to struggle with

Kyler's faster
Aaron Rodgers/Patrick Mahomes too lofty (unrealistic)
Baker is selling Caleb short

Hell, Nate even outdid me with my Dak "Gone Wild" comp

This (Brees) is as good as it's going to get

I dont think where and how far is a separate question from how good was the pass protection. If you cant hold the ball long enough to throw the ball downfield, and cant hold the ball long enough to find your teammates rather than throw the ball to the other team, then it is a strong indicator that the protection is subpar. A lot more goes into it (was he told to throw it away or tuck and run after the secind read, what was the deoth of the routes, how complex was the system, etc etc) but overall, i dint think the line blocked well for either qb and it reflected in the production for both of them.

I do think Williams has extremely fast feet and hands. Those are his two best traits imo. But he still held the ball for over 3 seconds per snap, and fumbled a ton, so these OL issues will be major issues for him as well.

I do think the OL can be fixed essily by signing a real NFL player at C, and either replacing Nate Davis or making sure he doesnt olay at a career low level again. But as far as last year goes, both QBs had a rough go of it. I saw an interesting stat that Mahimes and Fields had the most in-pocket sack evasions in the NFL by a wide margin.

[JockItch43]

After listening to a couple takes about Caleb not getting an agent, it just adds to the uncertainty of picking him. If anything, it won’t help him get to Chicago.

Does not read like that to me. Caleb does not need an agent to negotiate a rookie contract. Now if he changes his mind and does hire an agent then I would worry.

In general, sure. That was my first take. The more I think about it, the more I anticipate what negotiations will look like on his second contract. It should eventually get done, but what will the process be like. **** thru a goose? Or like passing a kidney stone with Lamar Jackson. A pearl-clutching franchise like the Bears will be evaluating that, as much as anything else. So, as I was saying about Drake Maye, he’s got the, that’s what it looks like vibe in terms of what personality type those country club classical McCaskeys might prefer. I don’t want to take this too far. I wish Caleb was more conventional.

I see some similarities to Aaron Rodgers in Caleb's game, but more so I could definitely see Caleb being an Aaron Rodgers type player from a personality perspective. A bit quirky, very competitive, a PITA sometimes... but would you pass up on an extremely talented and potential franchise level QB because of that?

I know Poles values character for sure, so if he truly has an issue with Caleb, whether it be as a leader or as a person in general, I could see him moving off of him. But it'll take some serious concerns to warrant that decision from Poles IMO.

[Almost Retired]

https://bearswire.usatoday.com/lists/nfl-mock-draft-roundup-2024-bears-land-caleb-williams-rome-odunze-first-round-projections/

Multiple draft analysts weighing in on what they think the Bears will do. The consensus is that we go with Caleb #1 and Odunze at #9. The only two guys that disagree have us going with Caleb and Fashanu or Caleb and Terrion Arnold. I disagree on both of the outliers. Bears will either go Caleb and Odunze or they will trade down from #9 to try to get some extra picks in this very strong draft.

[Almost Retired]

https://www.nfl.com/news/2024-nfl-draft-10-prospects-who-could-rise-during-pre-draft-process

Some projected value selections at multiple positions. Such a deep draft. I wish we had more picks, especially in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

[HearshotKDS]

https://www.nfl.com/news/2024-nfl-draft-10-prospects-who-could-rise-during-pre-draft-process

Some projected value selections at multiple positions. Such a deep draft. I wish we had more picks, especially in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

If Bears could grab Payton Wilson in the 4th I think he could be the Bears starting MLB as early as next year - lets you save $15M by cutting Edmunds- that alone pays for a Teven Jenkins extension with dosh to spare. Bears just have so many needs this draft.

Edit: Edmunds not Edwards.

[HoopsterJones]

https://www.nfl.com/news/2024-nfl-draft-10-prospects-who-could-rise-during-pre-draft-process

Some projected value selections at multiple positions. Such a deep draft. I wish we had more picks, especially in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

If Bears could grab Payton Wilson in the 4th I think he could be the Bears starting MLB as early as next year - lets you save $15M by cutting Edwards - that alone pays for a Teven Jenkins extension with dosh to spare. Bears just have so many needs this draft.

You probably mean Edmunds here. TJ Edwards is a steal at $6m with his production.

[Dresden]

After listening to a couple takes about Caleb not getting an agent, it just adds to the uncertainty of picking him. If anything, it won’t help him get to Chicago.

Does not read like that to me. Caleb does not need an agent to negotiate a rookie contract. Now if he changes his mind and does hire an agent then I would worry.

In general, sure. That was my first take. The more I think about it, the more I anticipate what negotiations will look like on his second contract. It should eventually get done, but what will the process be like. **** thru a goose? Or like passing a kidney stone with Lamar Jackson. A pearl-clutching franchise like the Bears will be evaluating that, as much as anything else. So, as I was saying about Drake Maye, he’s got the, that’s what it looks like vibe in terms of what personality type those country club classical McCaskeys might prefer. I don’t want to take this too far. I wish Caleb was more conventional.

This is exactly why the Bears should not take Drake Maye over Caleb Williams. For way too long, the Bears have shied away from being brash and bold. They prefer to pretend they are just a little mom and pop franchise giving blue collar Chicago the hard working, humble pie kind of athletes that fit that image. Keep your head down, do your job, don't stand out.

Contrast that with how Jerry Jones runs his franchise- he's always reaching for the stars. They aren't afraid of controversy or making big moves. I guarantee if they were in the Bears position, they would be all in on Caleb, even though they have Dak Prescott. They would sit Caleb for a year or two behind Dak, and then hand over the reins when Dak falters. You can say what you want about Dallas not winning anything for awhile, but they are almost always relevant, and have won 4 SB's to the Bears one.

The same goes for Pat Riley- he's always gone after superstars. Same with the Lakers.

At some point, the Bears have to break with their past and start a new culture, and that means playing football the way it's being played in 2024, not 1924. Hopefully with Ryan Poles calling the shots, who saw up close in KC what a modern offense looks like, they can start that process now with Caleb Williams and Shane Waldron.

[Dresden]

https://bearswire.usatoday.com/lists/nfl-mock-draft-roundup-2024-bears-land-caleb-williams-rome-odunze-first-round-projections/

Multiple draft analysts weighing in on what they think the Bears will do. The consensus is that we go with Caleb #1 and Odunze at #9. The only two guys that disagree have us going with Caleb and Fashanu or Caleb and Terrion Arnold. I disagree on both of the outliers. Bears will either go Caleb and Odunze or they will trade down from #9 to try to get some extra picks in this very strong draft.

There a lot of tantalizing WR's that will go after the first 10 picks as well. I like Adonai Mitchell, Troy Franklin, Brian Thomas, Xavier Leggette, and Xavier Worthy. None are perfect, they all have some weaknesses, but could still give Caleb another weapon. Some of these guys can provide the big body we don't have, some are burners that can stretch a defense, some are just good route runners that find a way to get open.

[nomorezorro]

Read on Twitter

tuesday is the official beginning of Fields Trade Watch imo. game's on as soon as we get the perfunctory interview with caleb out of the way

[NecessaryEvil]

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?s=20

[HearshotKDS]

https://www.nfl.com/news/2024-nfl-draft-10-prospects-who-could-rise-during-pre-draft-process

Some projected value selections at multiple positions. Such a deep draft. I wish we had more picks, especially in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

If Bears could grab Payton Wilson in the 4th I think he could be the Bears starting MLB as early as next year - lets you save $15M by cutting Edwards - that alone pays for a Teven Jenkins extension with dosh to spare. Bears just have so many needs this draft.

You probably mean Edmunds here. TJ Edwards is a steal at $6m with his production.

Yep fixed, names too similar and i hadnt had my coffee when i wrote the post.

[Hold That]

Some light smoke around the socials about the Giants having made an offer for Fields.

Awkward

Just need one team to make a strong offer for Fields - did it say offer?

I don’t know who the “insider” is, this guy, or the “source”

Read on Twitter

I have found nothing about what the offer could be.
Number of people around were taking it as if it has potential legitimacy as an incident. For example:

Read on Twitter

Could all be a telephone game.

I would hate that fields move up trade by including 9 and fields just to secure Odunze.

I’d much rather trade Fields separately, Odunze could very well fall to us at 9 nor do I believe he’s much better of a prospect than Alt Bowers or just going defense.

We’d literally just throw away the additional assets we’d get from a fields trade just to settle for a move up that doesn’t have us getting Marvin Harrison