LaVine getting foot surgery/Out for the season

[MrSparkle]

Are you kidding? Lol - what more do you need to see it doesn't work? No one in the Bulls is building around LaVine anymore. Him and Lonzo are baggage until they're off the roster. At this point the Bulls would be lucky to dump him for expiring contracts.

The Bulls are definitely building around/with Lavine until/unless they trade him, which is now probably a year away at earliest. He makes an enormous salary and put up great numbers before his 25 games of relatively poor play this season. He was very good after the deadline last year. He will be penciled in as the starting SG making his huge bucks and playing 35 mpg and taking lots of shots indefinitely now. They will and should do everything they can to make it work with him going into next year.

It's the only route. He can ask for a trade next year when he's pretending like he's bought in and scoring 25 a game.

If NBA roster management was easy it wouldn't be worth following or fun. This is frustrating and hard and fluid and that's why we are all paying attention.....it's fun.

We've both been here over 2 decades. I think there are phases where this certainly stops being fun. I think 2008, 2012, 2016 and 2020 were pretty dismal. I guess some optimistic times followed, but we'd need the mother of all lucky breaks to make this one fun. Problem the FO isn't even giving itself a chance for the break. They looks poised to slug on with Demar, Caruso and Vuc, which means we're looking at adding a 13-16th pick and a 1st round exit at best, and zero cap-space or 2nd rounders.

The only bright side to Zach's situation, is it wasn't another ACL tear. That probably would've been the death blow to ever moving the contract. But going by this medical staff's work, it seems to be they've been playing guys through some injuries that they shouldn't have been playing through, and who knows how lingering this foot injury is going to be. Surgeries go both ways; they can make things better, or worse.

But there's no building around Zach anymore. This injury just pushes the timeline of moving him another year. His $45m is an albatross at this point, as was the worst-case prediction. It doesn't make sense to operate over the cap anymore. Our most expensive salaries are our worst salaries. They should figure out how to get rid of all of them by summer 2025, so that they can add 2 max FAs to Coby, Ayo and whatever other cheap chips (Caruso, Pat, Phillips). That makes sense to me. Adding any players with Zach in mind makes no sense. In fact, I'd pursue a "shooting" guard as early as this summer (not really - we need the BPA).

[sco]

Santa Claus is coming. Jeez

Are you just expressing your frustration or is this some sort of veiled insider perspective?

[Guru]

The Bulls are definitely building around/with Lavine until/unless they trade him, which is now probably a year away at earliest. He makes an enormous salary and put up great numbers before his 25 games of relatively poor play this season. He was very good after the deadline last year. He will be penciled in as the starting SG making his huge bucks and playing 35 mpg and taking lots of shots indefinitely now. They will and should do everything they can to make it work with him going into next year.

It's the only route. He can ask for a trade next year when he's pretending like he's bought in and scoring 25 a game.

If NBA roster management was easy it wouldn't be worth following or fun. This is frustrating and hard and fluid and that's why we are all paying attention.....it's fun.

We've both been here over 2 decades. I think there are phases where this certainly stops being fun. I think 2008, 2012, 2016 and 2020 were pretty dismal. I guess some optimistic times followed, but we'd need the mother of all lucky breaks to make this one fun. Problem the FO isn't even giving itself a chance for the break. They looks poised to slug on with Demar, Caruso and Vuc, which means we're looking at adding a 13-16th pick and a 1st round exit at best, and zero cap-space or 2nd rounders.

The only bright side to Zach's situation, is it wasn't another ACL tear. That probably would've been the death blow to ever moving the contract. But going by this medical staff's work, it seems to be they've been playing guys through some injuries that they shouldn't have been playing through, and who knows how lingering this foot injury is going to be. Surgeries go both ways; they can make things better, or worse.

But there's no building around Zach anymore. This injury just pushes the timeline of moving him another year. His $45m is an albatross at this point, as was the worst-case prediction. It doesn't make sense to operate over the cap anymore. Our most expensive salaries are our worst salaries. They should figure out how to get rid of all of them by summer 2025, so that they can add 2 max FAs to Coby, Ayo and whatever other cheap chips (Caruso, Pat, Phillips). That makes sense to me. Adding any players with Zach in mind makes no sense. In fact, I'd pursue a "shooting" guard as early as this summer (not really - we need the BPA).

I don't think I'm being clear. I am not enthusiastic about building around LaVine, nor do I think he has to be the centerpiece of the future. However, he and Colby are the ONLY things that must be concrete to start the year. Colby because of ability, LaVine because he's untradeable and has enormous upside. (Probably Ayo too and I'd love to keep Caruso).

[Stratmaster]

Pretty tough news as one of what seems like, the last few remaining Zach fans around here.

I also simply remain confused as to how and when Zach's value plummeted so fast.

Post All-star break last year Zach played at a legit super star level, and I don't think it's hyperbolic to say so.

He averaged 27 points per game on 53/39/88 shooting splits, had a TS% of 64.5% and added 5 assists.

You can filter stats to see who else was playing at this high of a level and it was really just Zach and and Tyrese Maxey.

And somehow, after what was an excellent finish to the season, his trade value quickly ceased to exist. Which remains mind boggling to me.

And without getting into the conspiracy theories of if this surgery is actually needed or just being made to avoid a trade to an undesired locations - it is happening. Which should help Zach start 2024-25 season healthy, which is a win for everybody whether you still want Zach here or would like to see him moved.

The more years that come off Zach's deal, the more tradeable he is to teams that have hesitations about the length of his deal.

For those that like watching young players blossom - it's gonna be a heck of a 2nd half of a season for you as you'll get plenty of chances to watch Coby, Ayo, Pat (hopefully), Terry, and Phillips.

I look forward to a healthy Zach next year, and yes healthy Zach is a thing that exists - he played in 85% of available games over the previous 3 seasons.

Well said.

The word when they first tried to trade him was that they were asking a kings ransom for him. Not that he had no value. It was known that he and Our genius coach didn't get along; but, it was not looked at as an irreconcilable situation

Then the injury happened. Then, while injured, Zach finally said, "Fine, trade me" and it became apparent that him staying really wasn't an option.

At which point teams said "you want this king's ransom for an injured max contract who your organization has alienated and driven away? ". And they laughed in the Bulls face.


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[greenwing]

The timing of the surgery decision is quite frankly super suspect. Also, what foot surgery would require 4-6 months of being off? Something that long insinuates either a major soft tissue surgery (e.g. muscle flap or tendon transfer) or an external fixator. Basically, something like that would have the potential of being career ending or something that would result in him being a significantly less player than even his recent play. If he comes back at full strength then the timeline doesn’t make sense. It does make you wonder if his agency is involved in this if the reports of Zach potentially being traded to Detroit are true.

[Wingy]

The timing of the surgery decision is quite frankly super suspect. Also, what foot surgery would require 4-6 months of being off? Something that long insinuates either a major soft tissue surgery (e.g. muscle flap or tendon transfer) or an external fixator. Basically, something like that would have the potential of being career ending or something that would result in him being a significantly less player than even his recent play. If he comes back at full strength then the timeline doesn’t make sense. It does make you wonder if his agency is involved in this if the reports of Zach potentially being traded to Detroit are true.

People are way too wrapped up into conspiracy theories. Let’s keep it simple.

1. Do it now, be ready for next season’s training camp with room to spare, have plenty of time to knock off rust and actually put some individual work in (important, see Coby’s continual offseason improvements).

2. String it out until the season ends. Maybe make it worse (who knows?)? If the worst case recovery time occurs and then if there are any setbacks, you’re compromising regular season games.

I’d much rather choose option 1.

There is nothing gained from getting a half-ass Zach out there the rest of the year. We know he doesn’t usually play well while playing hurt, so it would do nothing to improve his value.

[HearshotKDS]

The hits keep on coming but at this point the horse feels dead - this doesn’t even feel bad for the rest of the season I’m just upset they didn’t trade him for value before this happened.

[greenwing]

The timing of the surgery decision is quite frankly super suspect. Also, what foot surgery would require 4-6 months of being off? Something that long insinuates either a major soft tissue surgery (e.g. muscle flap or tendon transfer) or an external fixator. Basically, something like that would have the potential of being career ending or something that would result in him being a significantly less player than even his recent play. If he comes back at full strength then the timeline doesn’t make sense. It does make you wonder if his agency is involved in this if the reports of Zach potentially being traded to Detroit are true.

People are way too wrapped up into conspiracy theories. Let’s keep it simple.

1. Do it now, be ready for next season’s training camp with room to spare, have plenty of time to knock off rust and actually put some individual work in (important, see Coby’s continual offseason improvements).

2. String it out until the season ends. Maybe make it worse (who knows?)? If the worst case recovery time occurs and then if there are any setbacks, you’re compromising regular season games.

I’d much rather choose option 1.

There is nothing gained from getting a half-ass Zach out there the rest of the year. We know he doesn’t usually play well while playing hurt, so it would do nothing to improve his value.

I actually think it’s a big issue. Based on the timeline it insinuates a major procedure of which we could be facing a Lonzo situation. And if it’s not then this reflects on Zach’s and/or his agent’s character(s). Zach has publicly been very professional about the situation so if it’s him then that certainly will change public perception of him which lowers his trade value. If it’s his agent that is pulling the strings then the Bulls should complain to the NBA. Regardless of the reasoning these are all atrocious possibilities for the Bulls. And for the record, I hope for Zach’s sake that he recovers 100% from injury and comes back to play for us as a committed Bull. Otherwise, this is going to look bad for all involved.

[Guru]

The timing of the surgery decision is quite frankly super suspect. Also, what foot surgery would require 4-6 months of being off? Something that long insinuates either a major soft tissue surgery (e.g. muscle flap or tendon transfer) or an external fixator. Basically, something like that would have the potential of being career ending or something that would result in him being a significantly less player than even his recent play. If he comes back at full strength then the timeline doesn’t make sense. It does make you wonder if his agency is involved in this if the reports of Zach potentially being traded to Detroit are true.

People are way too wrapped up into conspiracy theories. Let’s keep it simple.

1. Do it now, be ready for next season’s training camp with room to spare, have plenty of time to knock off rust and actually put some individual work in (important, see Coby’s continual offseason improvements).

2. String it out until the season ends. Maybe make it worse (who knows?)? If the worst case recovery time occurs and then if there are any setbacks, you’re compromising regular season games.

I’d much rather choose option 1.

There is nothing gained from getting a half-ass Zach out there the rest of the year. We know he doesn’t usually play well while playing hurt, so it would do nothing to improve his value.

1. Play meaningless games for a team nowhere near the playoff hunt in a city I don't want to live in for a Franchise that doesn't seem to be going anywhere.
2. Fix the issue now and re-evaluate in Fall of 2024. When the Bulls might have a coach I like, teams might want me that I want to go to.....etc.

I think Detroit was equivalent to saying "this is a lost year" to him so he decided to make it a lost year and get healthy.

[Red8911]

Pretty tough news as one of what seems like, the last few remaining Zach fans around here.

I also simply remain confused as to how and when Zach's value plummeted so fast.

Post All-star break last year Zach played at a legit super star level, and I don't think it's hyperbolic to say so.

He averaged 27 points per game on 53/39/88 shooting splits, had a TS% of 64.5% and added 5 assists.

You can filter stats to see who else was playing at this high of a level and it was really just Zach and and Tyrese Maxey.

And somehow, after what was an excellent finish to the season, his trade value quickly ceased to exist. Which remains mind boggling to me.

And without getting into the conspiracy theories of if this surgery is actually needed or just being made to avoid a trade to an undesired locations - it is happening. Which should help Zach start 2024-25 season healthy, which is a win for everybody whether you still want Zach here or would like to see him moved.

The more years that come off Zach's deal, the more tradeable he is to teams that have hesitations about the length of his deal.

For those that like watching young players blossom - it's gonna be a heck of a 2nd half of a season for you as you'll get plenty of chances to watch Coby, Ayo, Pat (hopefully), Terry, and Phillips.

I look forward to a healthy Zach next year, and yes healthy Zach is a thing that exists - he played in 85% of available games over the previous 3 seasons.

Well said.

The word when they first tried to trade him was that they were asking a kings ransom for him. Not that he had no value. It was known that he and Our genius coach didn't get along; but, it was not looked at as an irreconcilable situation

Then the injury happened. Then, while injured, Zach finally said, "Fine, trade me" and it became apparent that him staying really wasn't an option.

At which point teams said "you want this king's ransom for an injured max contract who your organization has alienated and driven away? ". And they laughed in the Bulls face.


Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

I don’t think teams said anything about the bulls alienating and driving him away. You made that part up lol.

[Red8911]

The timing of the surgery decision is quite frankly super suspect. Also, what foot surgery would require 4-6 months of being off? Something that long insinuates either a major soft tissue surgery (e.g. muscle flap or tendon transfer) or an external fixator. Basically, something like that would have the potential of being career ending or something that would result in him being a significantly less player than even his recent play. If he comes back at full strength then the timeline doesn’t make sense. It does make you wonder if his agency is involved in this if the reports of Zach potentially being traded to Detroit are true.

Yeah it’s all fishy. Same day that reports had Bulls and Detroit coming closer to a deal Zach out of no where announces he’s getting a season ending surgery.

I doubt Zach is getting a surgery just to not get traded to Detroit(that would be insane on his part lol but maybe he knew for a while that he needed a surgery and Klutch held the information to see what would first happen with his trade situation.

I’m sure AK has had enough of Klutch and their clients.

[PJSteven22]

Pretty tough news as one of what seems like, the last few remaining Zach fans around here.

I also simply remain confused as to how and when Zach's value plummeted so fast.

Post All-star break last year Zach played at a legit super star level, and I don't think it's hyperbolic to say so.

He averaged 27 points per game on 53/39/88 shooting splits, had a TS% of 64.5% and added 5 assists.

You can filter stats to see who else was playing at this high of a level and it was really just Zach and and Tyrese Maxey.

And somehow, after what was an excellent finish to the season, his trade value quickly ceased to exist. Which remains mind boggling to me.

And without getting into the conspiracy theories of if this surgery is actually needed or just being made to avoid a trade to an undesired locations - it is happening. Which should help Zach start 2024-25 season healthy, which is a win for everybody whether you still want Zach here or would like to see him moved.

The more years that come off Zach's deal, the more tradeable he is to teams that have hesitations about the length of his deal.

For those that like watching young players blossom - it's gonna be a heck of a 2nd half of a season for you as you'll get plenty of chances to watch Coby, Ayo, Pat (hopefully), Terry, and Phillips.

I look forward to a healthy Zach next year, and yes healthy Zach is a thing that exists - he played in 85% of available games over the previous 3 seasons.

It’s a bit hyperbolic to say that he was playing at a superstar level. People throw around that label too loosely.

[pipfan]

I think-on paper-a CWhite/Lavine backcourt, with Ayo as 3rd guard, could be deadly.
Trade DDR now, get a future pick and run PWill at the 3 (let Terry back him up)
Trade Caruso and get value while you can. With our luck, he'll get hurt the day after the deadline passes. I like Dieng from OKC and they could use AC
Run Phillips a ton too

Just keep Vuc for now, but trade Drummond if you can get something. Vuc is not terrible, and has low value-we need someone to play the 5

[Dan Z]

The timing of the surgery decision is quite frankly super suspect. Also, what foot surgery would require 4-6 months of being off? Something that long insinuates either a major soft tissue surgery (e.g. muscle flap or tendon transfer) or an external fixator. Basically, something like that would have the potential of being career ending or something that would result in him being a significantly less player than even his recent play. If he comes back at full strength then the timeline doesn’t make sense. It does make you wonder if his agency is involved in this if the reports of Zach potentially being traded to Detroit are true.

Yeah it’s all fishy. Same day that reports had Bulls and Detroit coming closer to a deal Zach out of no where announces he’s getting a season ending surgery.

I doubt Zach is getting a surgery just to not get traded to Detroit(that would be insane on his part lol but maybe he knew for a while that he needed a surgery and Klutch held the information to see what would first happen with his trade situation.

I’m sure AK has had enough of Klutch and their clients.

Don't the Bulls have a medical staff that would know about his foot injury? Or does he have a personal doctor?

I thought the timing was questionable too. One thing I asked the other day is why didn't he wait until after the deadline? The response I got is that it wouldn't matter either way and that's probably true. However, what if a good team made an offer for him? Would Zach put off surgery until the off season? Of course, I say this without knowing the severity of his injury.

[HomoSapien]

The timing of the surgery decision is quite frankly super suspect. Also, what foot surgery would require 4-6 months of being off? Something that long insinuates either a major soft tissue surgery (e.g. muscle flap or tendon transfer) or an external fixator. Basically, something like that would have the potential of being career ending or something that would result in him being a significantly less player than even his recent play. If he comes back at full strength then the timeline doesn’t make sense. It does make you wonder if his agency is involved in this if the reports of Zach potentially being traded to Detroit are true.

Yeah it’s all fishy. Same day that reports had Bulls and Detroit coming closer to a deal Zach out of no where announces he’s getting a season ending surgery.

I doubt Zach is getting a surgery just to not get traded to Detroit(that would be insane on his part lol but maybe he knew for a while that he needed a surgery and Klutch held the information to see what would first happen with his trade situation.

I’m sure AK has had enough of Klutch and their clients.

Don't the Bulls have a medical staff that would know about his foot injury? Or does he have a personal doctor?

I thought the timing was questionable too. One thing I asked the other day is why didn't he wait until after the deadline? The response I got is that it wouldn't matter either way and that's probably true. However, what if a good team made an offer for him? Would Zach put off surgery until the off season? Of course, I say this without knowing the severity of his injury.

My theory is this:

Zach LaVine had a foot injury that he could've played through if it was worth it. He probably would've needed surgery eventually (or perhaps surgery was a better long-term option), but would've put it off for the right situation. Sensing that the Detroit rumor was real, Zach and Klutch decided to go ahead and do the surgery now. Was this done to scare off the Pistons? Maybe to an extent, but I don't think he's opposed to playing for Detroit. I just don't think he's interested in playing through an injury for the worst team in the league. Who would be?

I also think Zach would rather deal with the surgery on Chicago's time than during his off-season. Like Pippen famously said, "I wasn't going to **** up my summer."

[Dez]

It's the only route. He can ask for a trade next year when he's pretending like he's bought in and scoring 25 a game.

If NBA roster management was easy it wouldn't be worth following or fun. This is frustrating and hard and fluid and that's why we are all paying attention.....it's fun.

We've both been here over 2 decades. I think there are phases where this certainly stops being fun. I think 2008, 2012, 2016 and 2020 were pretty dismal. I guess some optimistic times followed, but we'd need the mother of all lucky breaks to make this one fun. Problem the FO isn't even giving itself a chance for the break. They looks poised to slug on with Demar, Caruso and Vuc, which means we're looking at adding a 13-16th pick and a 1st round exit at best, and zero cap-space or 2nd rounders.

The only bright side to Zach's situation, is it wasn't another ACL tear. That probably would've been the death blow to ever moving the contract. But going by this medical staff's work, it seems to be they've been playing guys through some injuries that they shouldn't have been playing through, and who knows how lingering this foot injury is going to be. Surgeries go both ways; they can make things better, or worse.

But there's no building around Zach anymore. This injury just pushes the timeline of moving him another year. His $45m is an albatross at this point, as was the worst-case prediction. It doesn't make sense to operate over the cap anymore. Our most expensive salaries are our worst salaries. They should figure out how to get rid of all of them by summer 2025, so that they can add 2 max FAs to Coby, Ayo and whatever other cheap chips (Caruso, Pat, Phillips). That makes sense to me. Adding any players with Zach in mind makes no sense. In fact, I'd pursue a "shooting" guard as early as this summer (not really - we need the BPA).

I don't think I'm being clear. I am not enthusiastic about building around LaVine, nor do I think he has to be the centerpiece of the future. However, he and Colby are the ONLY things that must be concrete to start the year. Colby because of ability, LaVine because he's untradeable and has enormous upside. (Probably Ayo too and I'd love to keep Caruso).

Coby. His name is Coby.

[Wingy]

The timing of the surgery decision is quite frankly super suspect. Also, what foot surgery would require 4-6 months of being off? Something that long insinuates either a major soft tissue surgery (e.g. muscle flap or tendon transfer) or an external fixator. Basically, something like that would have the potential of being career ending or something that would result in him being a significantly less player than even his recent play. If he comes back at full strength then the timeline doesn’t make sense. It does make you wonder if his agency is involved in this if the reports of Zach potentially being traded to Detroit are true.

Yeah it’s all fishy. Same day that reports had Bulls and Detroit coming closer to a deal Zach out of no where announces he’s getting a season ending surgery.

I doubt Zach is getting a surgery just to not get traded to Detroit(that would be insane on his part lol but maybe he knew for a while that he needed a surgery and Klutch held the information to see what would first happen with his trade situation.

I’m sure AK has had enough of Klutch and their clients.

Hmmm, I’m pretty certain those “reports” were from some stupid twitter account that at least one poster (PJ Stevens) here called out as fake news, presumably from seeing it post garbage in the past.

Just because some random acct tagged legit people doesn’t make it real. Didn’t see any posts from the usual sources themselves.

Man. People really gotta start scrutinizing twitter and tik tok if they’re using it for their news.

[DASMACKDOWN]

Regardless on how we feel about the situation, perception is perception. Quite frankly, Zach is put in that position that he is not a winning player.

There are plenty of players in the league that have bad or false labels that are hard to shake.

The biggest whipping boy at the moment is Jordan Poole.

Jordan Poole the last 2 seasons have had many cringe worthy moments that will be hard to shake from most NBA personal. It will probably take a few years or a true contending team for him to shake out of it.

Think of players like JaVale Mcgee. He was a Shaqtin the fool superstar and was thought of a train wreck of a player. But he goes to Golden St, rebuilds his rep, wins a few titles and now has been considered a quality big for the second half of his career.

Zach unfortunately is not going rebuild his character on the Chicago Bulls. It will probably be on another team.

[Ice Man]

I doubt that Zach's reputation has suffered much outside of Chicago. He has pretty much always been on bad teams, which has happened because he has rarely had strong teammates, and he's not good enough to carry a team on his back by himself. So after a while the fans turn on him.

Players of a similar ability are Bradley Beal, KAT, Kristaps Porzingis, Wemby (this year's version), Cade (ditto), Kyrie Irving. If those guys are your team's best player, forget about it. You suck. And eventually your fans will call you a loser, and maybe some outside fans too. But every other team wants that guy on its roster, if the price is right. Such is Zach.

[LateNight]

I doubt that Zach's reputation has suffered much outside of Chicago. He has pretty much always been on bad teams, which has happened because he has rarely had strong teammates, and he's not good enough to carry a team on his back by himself. So after a while the fans turn on him.

Based on feedback on social media and other boards here, Zach’s reputation is terrible now.

I know it was always a little negative, but this seems way worse than I’ve ever seen it.

Maybe teams haven’t changed their perspective, but I think the narrative has changed for many casual fans.