Who isn't mad at Arturas?

[Stratmaster]

Wrong thread

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

[Stratmaster]

Wrong thread

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

[HomoSapien]

Was rewatching The Last Dance and it dawned on me. Donovan and this group have more support/adulation from AKME as the 10th seed than Phil, MJ and the rest of the team had as defending champs. How sad is that?

[GoBlue72391]

Was rewatching The Last Dance and it dawned on me. Donovan and this group have more support/adulation from AKME as the 10th seed than Phil, MJ and the rest of the team had as defending champs. How sad is that?

It reflects poorly on both groups tbh

[ChiTownHero1992]

A bunch of you guys were so happy that they traded Jimmy and rebuilding. Didn’t like being mediocre so thought this was the route to a championship in the future.

I was never this pissed at a Bulls move and after that trade I was done with GarPax. Terrible move, also I predicted then that all they are going to do is end up back where they were before and it happened. Bulls are basically in the same place they were before the unnecessary rebuild.

Difference is Jimmy would have done bigger things in Chicago had he not gotten traded and if Gar/Pax had put a decent team around him to succeed. He gave him fkn washed up D Wade in his last year lol.

I for one hated the Jimmy trade from the get go. However i didn't embrace the rebuild but a retool was necessary! Building a team of 3 none-shooters Rondo, Wade and Jimmy was the stupidest roster creation i've ever seen in basketball, but building something around JImmy would've been nice to watch. As soon as the trade went down I was anti-Lavine (still am) and knew they'd never amount to anything building the way they did until they burn it down and do it again.

[kyrv]

Pretty sure they both did. Thus my comment.

Now you are making stuff up. You know my obsession with Lauri. I would remember if he said anything about changing positions. Post any reputable source backing up this claim

Lauri's dad before he came to the NBA: "If [a coach] tried to put Lauri under the basket, we changed the team," Pekka said. "If you play under the basket your whole career when you handle the ball, it's going to be extremely difficult." Lauri played guard most of his youth, and he's not just a big man who wants to play on the perimeter; he's effective there. He's already buried an Arizona team-best 27 threes.

Also Lauri's dad: “I would say the biggest thing is Lauri is a four, and he can also play the three position"

Lauri in an interview w/JJ Reddick on why he is having so much success with Utah: "It's the opportunity......I'm bringing the ball up, handling the ball in the pick and roll and I hadn't been doing that much in the NBA......I think it changed a little bit in Cleveland when I got to play Small Forward and it allowed me to play on the perimeter....."

I mean, when asked why he is so successful now the first thing he mentions is "playing SF"

Strat we had SO many discussions on how Lauri wasn't being used correctly. Not sure anyone here thought he was.

Now that didn't mean he was or wasn't good of course, many still thought he sucked. Turns out he doesn't. But using him correctly would have allowed the team to better judge him

[MrSparkle]

Year 1 seemed like an A, year 2 seemed like a B, year 3 seemed like a C, year 4 seemed like a D, and heading into this summer, can't help but feel like he's barreling towards a big F. It would be very impressive if he managed to "upgrade" this roster. AFAIC, the guys we don't want to overpay, will have to be overpaid to keep. Zach will need to be dealt for pennies (or cost to dump), or kept begrudgingly. The incoming pick (10-14) is less exciting than drafting Marko Simonovic. Terry seems like a complete waste of a FRP (2nd round talent in an overwhelmingly terrible draft). Even if he trades into this draft, I've currently lost faith in the AKME scouting staff. With no expendable draft capital, a bunch of chronically injured players, this is one of the least sexy Bulls rosters in a long time. The only thing I'll say is that the players are likable. But likable guys finishing (nearly) last, seems like a comical proposition for a hungry fanbase which has been flirting with sub-500 basketball regularly since 2015.

AK just keeps making his job harder by kicking the can, and if Demar gets paid, that's another expensive egg (cap space) thrown into the basket of a high-risk player (35yo 1st option). Maybe Demar has a Lebron longevity in line, but maybe not: he's gonna be 35, and in any sport, at that point you're playing with fire. The drop from max to vet min production is a quick straight shot. A logical move would've been to target clearing the cap for 2025, when Lonzo expires. That way he could take advantage of the $20m starting backcourt, and spend big on FAs. It looks like he's gonna keep operating over the cap, instead.

I'm an optimistic guy, but I don't see what 24/25 has in store for us beyond placing a little too much hope/pressure on Coby. We've got an 11-15 pick heading to San Antonio after next year, and basically need irrational hope on these guys (in order of likely success): Ayo, Pat, Phillips, Terry. Any rational GM would look at these guys' ceilings and see them as your average NBA bench: Terrance Mann, Caleb Martin, Haywood Highsmith. Ayo particularly is a likable prospect, and I hope he can bust projections, but... Talk about a leap of faith if this is our #2 prospect on the entire roster.

I'm getting the vibe that AK's pushed to resign or fired by 2026. Honestly seeing a Paxson-comeback. 6 years with 1 playoff win is looking like a realistic result, by that year. And if so, I believe Paxson will be boiling and pushing ownership for a change. Cause right now this team build is looking really goofy, borderline delusional, outside of Coby, who was picked by GarPax. He is still a senior advisor, and he might like some elements of this squad, but having worse results than the 04-10 squads is exceptionally poor.

Now there could be a huge shift this summer. Maybe Billy's let go, Demar/Drummond are S&T'd for late picks, Vuc/Zach are pumped and dumped (or kept for the tank), and they just go for the top-10 pick keep the Spurs from grabbing it any time soon (top-8 protected for 2y, then 2nd rd status). That's a whole lot of cumulative losing for one of the most expensive VP/GM/HC staffs in the league, but the alternative is settling for a 1st round ceiling team.

[othawhitemeat]

Year 1 seemed like an A, year 2 seemed like a B, year 3 seemed like a C, year 4 seemed like a D, and heading into this summer, can't help but feel like he's barreling towards a big F. It would be very impressive if he managed to "upgrade" this roster. AFAIC, the guys we don't want to overpay, will have to be overpaid to keep. Zach will need to be dealt for pennies (or cost to dump), or kept begrudgingly. The incoming pick (10-14) is less exciting than drafting Marko Simonovic. Terry seems like a complete waste of a FRP (2nd round talent in an overwhelmingly terrible draft). Even if he trades into this draft, I've currently lost faith in the AKME scouting staff. With no expendable draft capital, a bunch of chronically injured players, this is one of the least sexy Bulls rosters in a long time. The only thing I'll say is that the players are likable. But likable guys finishing (nearly) last, seems like a comical proposition for a hungry fanbase which has been flirting with sub-500 basketball regularly since 2015.

AK just keeps making his job harder by kicking the can, and if Demar gets paid, that's another expensive egg (cap space) thrown into the basket of a high-risk player (35yo 1st option). Maybe Demar has a Lebron longevity in line, but maybe not: he's gonna be 35, and in any sport, at that point you're playing with fire. The drop from max to vet min production is a quick straight shot. A logical move would've been to target clearing the cap for 2025, when Lonzo expires. That way he could take advantage of the $20m starting backcourt, and spend big on FAs. It looks like he's gonna keep operating over the cap, instead.

I'm an optimistic guy, but I don't see what 24/25 has in store for us beyond placing a little too much hope/pressure on Coby. We've got an 11-15 pick heading to San Antonio after next year, and basically need irrational hope on these guys (in order of likely success): Ayo, Pat, Phillips, Terry. Any rational GM would look at these guys' ceilings and see them as your average NBA bench: Terrance Mann, Caleb Martin, Haywood Highsmith. Ayo particularly is a likable prospect, and I hope he can bust projections, but... Talk about a leap of faith if this is our #2 prospect on the entire roster.

I'm getting the vibe that AK's pushed to resign or fired by 2026. Honestly seeing a Paxson-comeback. 6 years with 1 playoff win is looking like a realistic result, by that year. And if so, I believe Paxson will be boiling and pushing ownership for a change. Cause right now this team build is looking really goofy, borderline delusional, outside of Coby, who was picked by GarPax. He is still a senior advisor, and he might like some elements of this squad, but having worse results than the 04-10 squads is exceptionally poor.

I loved Pax without Gar. Keep Gar away and my only complaint was Pax not going hard enough for a superstar or getting that. However, the dude is elite in terms of getting hard-glue players that can play. Pax if he didn't hesitate would have drafted Alridge too and would have traded for Wade if he didn't hesitate. Pax as a drafter - Gordon/Deng/Hinrich/Coby/Taj/etc.....

[kodo]

Darnell mailbag.
https://theathletic.com/5290553/2024/02/21/bulls-mailbag-derozan-lavine-nba/

Darnell, any chance AK’s seat is starting to heat up? — Shawn G.

There is no reason to think that at this time. Karnišovas has a lot of stains on his record, and the list is growing. Missing the playoffs for a second straight season would be the most obvious demerit.

But the Bulls can once again point to injuries as the thing that derailed their season. It’ll look like a success rather than failure when the season ends and the Bulls fought for the playoffs despite LaVine finishing with only 25 games played, while Patrick Williams and Torrey Craig struggled to appear in 50.

This season already has “What if?” written all over it. Not by the fans, media or critics. But by management.

We already know the postseason AK press event.
- We were missing Zach most of the season
- We were missing Patrick & Torrey
- When fully healthy we're competitive
- When Zach came back we were 5-2, that's on track to a 58 win season.

[Andi Obst]

Blaming a disappointing end to the season on the injuries of a vet min signing would be peak Bulls, actually.

[dougthonus]

Was rewatching The Last Dance and it dawned on me. Donovan and this group have more support/adulation from AKME as the 10th seed than Phil, MJ and the rest of the team had as defending champs. How sad is that?

I'm not sure if you're using "sad" literally in terms of, it's heartbreaking that we had a dynasty strife with conflict and that conflict is partially why so many of the players are not well connected to each other or the Bulls today, or if you're using it more like "these actions were pathetic" referring to it being pathetic that Krause didn't support Jordan/Jackson/team.


In the first case, I completely agree. In the 2nd case, I wouldn't heap all the blame on Krause there, Jackson/Jordan seemed largely to blame for demonizing Krause and didn't leave him any space whatsoever to revere them or be involved. This is particularly damning of Jackson given that he should have been insanely grateful for being plucked out of the puerto rico league by Krause and owes his entire career to him.

But either way, it's heartbreaking that we can't even fully enjoy the dynasty or get everyone back into the same room. It should be a non stop celebration every time those guys are mentioned.

[DuckIII]

Was rewatching The Last Dance and it dawned on me. Donovan and this group have more support/adulation from AKME as the 10th seed than Phil, MJ and the rest of the team had as defending champs. How sad is that?

It reflects poorly on both groups tbh

Yeah, I get more than a little tired of the Dynasty dysfunction blame being continually piled on management. It’s human nature to side with the superstars over the suits, but we as informed Bulls fans know it was a two way street and the players themselves have even told us. Not the ego-deranged MJ of course, but pretty much everyone else acknowledges that Phil and MJ fanned those flames mightily and, in Phil’s case, did so intentionally as a toxic motivating strategy (which worked until it helped destroy it all prematurely).

They all **** it up together.

Same thing happened with GarPax and Thibs. Two way street, everyone being idiots and cutting off their noses to spite their faces, but despite the evidence fans will support the coaches and players over the suits almost every time.

[DuckIII]

Was rewatching The Last Dance and it dawned on me. Donovan and this group have more support/adulation from AKME as the 10th seed than Phil, MJ and the rest of the team had as defending champs. How sad is that?

I'm not sure if you're using "sad" literally in terms of, it's heartbreaking that we had a dynasty strife with conflict and that conflict is partially why so many of the players are not well connected to each other or the Bulls today, or if you're using it more like "these actions were pathetic" referring to it being pathetic that Krause didn't support Jordan/Jackson/team.


In the first case, I completely agree. In the 2nd case, I wouldn't heap all the blame on Krause there, Jackson/Jordan seemed largely to blame for demonizing Krause and didn't leave him any space whatsoever to revere them or be involved. This is particularly damning of Jackson given that he should have been insanely grateful for being plucked out of the puerto rico league by Krause and owes his entire career to him.

But either way, it's heartbreaking that we can't even fully enjoy the dynasty or get everyone back into the same room. It should be a non stop celebration every time those guys are mentioned.

Totally agree. To one degree or another Phil, MJ and Pip have all fallen from grace or at minimum have revealed their petty personalities to those who pay attention and view their behavior through an objective lens rather than a sycophantic one. Add Rodman to that as well, obviously.

And when you do, you see that the sane former Bulls from the Dynasty days and after have good relationships with the franchise. I suspect we’ll see the same with Rose and possibly Butler after they are done playing as well. Though Butler is kind of a hard one to predict.

Point being, do people think it’s a coincidence that the historically toxic personalities are the only ones who wouldn’t act like adults? Come on.

[DropStep]

Was rewatching The Last Dance and it dawned on me. Donovan and this group have more support/adulation from AKME as the 10th seed than Phil, MJ and the rest of the team had as defending champs. How sad is that?

It reflects poorly on both groups tbh

I also read the article about Lacob saying "We are not here to be just 'some team...'" and I thought, man, that guy's a bit of a tool. But then I thought, he's talking about us. We are just some team, and he is not here to be like us. We are so many light years from our owners or leaders saying something like that. I thought that was sad, too.

That said, the Warriors may be falling into the same trap as AKME in thinking they're too special to ever stoop to a rebuild.

[dougthonus]

I also read the article about Lacob saying "We are not here to be just 'some team...'" and I thought, man, that guy's a bit of a tool. But then I thought, he's talking about us. We are just some team, and he is not here to be like us. We are so many light years from our owners or leaders saying something like that. I thought that was sad, too.

That said, the Warriors may be falling into the same trap as AKME in thinking they're too special to ever stoop to a rebuild.

The Bulls said all kinds of crap like that right after the dynasty, we're not trying to just be average, we're going to get elite talents and superstars to build around in the draft, because the Bulls are about titles.

In the grand scheme of things, it's just super hard to win a title, it's super hard to get superstars, the Warriors still have one now and are only a .500 team.

Odds are it will be a decade+ before they compete meaningfully for a title again.

[drosestruts]

Do you think there's any merit to AK potentially preferring sign and trades to regular trades.

Regular trades:
The Vuc trade - I think we all recognize this as a bad trade

Sign and trades:
Lonzo - fit perfectly, i know some of you claim to have a crystal ball and while he wasn't a pillar of health missing 2.5 years was not on my bingo card

DeRozan - DeMar as simply been fantastic for us


He's also decent in free agency:

Caruso, Craig, Drummond are all solid signings.

Carter is meh

Worst signing was Dragic and it didn't matter at all. No long term negative impact.

He's also retained players like White and Dosunmu on great deals.

Maxing Zach probably the worst signing actually. Not that I was against the move at the time it was made.

[FriedRise]

Do you think there's any merit to AK potentially preferring sign and trades to regular trades.

I think they were just using whatever viable option they had at the time, but there's just not been enough sample size to say one way or another. They simply just need to make more moves.

At the time, they had a year of evaluation and decided that they needed to overhaul the roster, but all they had was a roster full of young players who were trending towards "bust" territory, a bad contract, and a very modest draft asset collection.

Zach was our best player, but after that? I think you can make an argument that it was Thadgic Johnson (how depressing is that?).

Lauri was inconsistent and couldn't keep his starting job after a year of Boylen
Wendell Carter was too small to play center and wasn't a good enough shooter to play PF
Coby was a bench gunner
Pat had the same average season he's always had
Gafford had his moments
Otto Porter had a huge contract but could never stay healthy

Then after that, the next best tier of young players we had were Denzel Valentine and Chandler Hutchison.

It was Zach and a bunch of Titos.

You're just not gonna get much back when this is what you're starting with, so you gotta get creative and turn some of your bad assets into something.

[GoBlue72391]

Year 1 seemed like an A, year 2 seemed like a B, year 3 seemed like a C, year 4 seemed like a D, and heading into this summer, can't help but feel like he's barreling towards a big F. It would be very impressive if he managed to "upgrade" this roster. AFAIC, the guys we don't want to overpay, will have to be overpaid to keep. Zach will need to be dealt for pennies (or cost to dump), or kept begrudgingly. The incoming pick (10-14) is less exciting than drafting Marko Simonovic. Terry seems like a complete waste of a FRP (2nd round talent in an overwhelmingly terrible draft). Even if he trades into this draft, I've currently lost faith in the AKME scouting staff. With no expendable draft capital, a bunch of chronically injured players, this is one of the least sexy Bulls rosters in a long time. The only thing I'll say is that the players are likable. But likable guys finishing (nearly) last, seems like a comical proposition for a hungry fanbase which has been flirting with sub-500 basketball regularly since 2015.

AK just keeps making his job harder by kicking the can, and if Demar gets paid, that's another expensive egg (cap space) thrown into the basket of a high-risk player (35yo 1st option). Maybe Demar has a Lebron longevity in line, but maybe not: he's gonna be 35, and in any sport, at that point you're playing with fire. The drop from max to vet min production is a quick straight shot. A logical move would've been to target clearing the cap for 2025, when Lonzo expires. That way he could take advantage of the $20m starting backcourt, and spend big on FAs. It looks like he's gonna keep operating over the cap, instead.

I'm an optimistic guy, but I don't see what 24/25 has in store for us beyond placing a little too much hope/pressure on Coby. We've got an 11-15 pick heading to San Antonio after next year, and basically need irrational hope on these guys (in order of likely success): Ayo, Pat, Phillips, Terry. Any rational GM would look at these guys' ceilings and see them as your average NBA bench: Terrance Mann, Caleb Martin, Haywood Highsmith. Ayo particularly is a likable prospect, and I hope he can bust projections, but... Talk about a leap of faith if this is our #2 prospect on the entire roster.

I'm getting the vibe that AK's pushed to resign or fired by 2026. Honestly seeing a Paxson-comeback. 6 years with 1 playoff win is looking like a realistic result, by that year. And if so, I believe Paxson will be boiling and pushing ownership for a change. Cause right now this team build is looking really goofy, borderline delusional, outside of Coby, who was picked by GarPax. He is still a senior advisor, and he might like some elements of this squad, but having worse results than the 04-10 squads is exceptionally poor.

Now there could be a huge shift this summer. Maybe Billy's let go, Demar/Drummond are S&T'd for late picks, Vuc/Zach are pumped and dumped (or kept for the tank), and they just go for the top-10 pick keep the Spurs from grabbing it any time soon (top-8 protected for 2y, then 2nd rd status). That's a whole lot of cumulative losing for one of the most expensive VP/GM/HC staffs in the league, but the alternative is settling for a 1st round ceiling team.

Yeah, they started out strong making big changes but progressively started doing less and less and doubling/tripling down on their previous decisions and most of that good will they had early on is long gone by this point except for the most devout optimists.

And yeah one of the silver linings is the players are definitely likable and easy to root for.

And it would be the most Bulls thing ever to fire AKME and replace them with Paxson again. There's precedent for it with Jerry re-hiring Tony LaRussa for the Sox years later.

[Stratmaster]

Do you think there's any merit to AK potentially preferring sign and trades to regular trades.

Regular trades:
The Vuc trade - I think we all recognize this as a bad trade

Sign and trades:
Lonzo - fit perfectly, i know some of you claim to have a crystal ball and while he wasn't a pillar of health missing 2.5 years was not on my bingo card

DeRozan - DeMar as simply been fantastic for us


He's also decent in free agency:

Caruso, Craig, Drummond are all solid signings.

Carter is meh

Worst signing was Dragic and it didn't matter at all. No long term negative impact.

He's also retained players like White and Dosunmu on great deals.

Maxing Zach probably the worst signing actually. Not that I was against the move at the time it was made.

Not even close. The worst signing was the Billy Donovan extension, which translated into making Zach Lavine the 2nd worst.

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