Patrick Williams next deal discussion with poll

[nekorajo]

Boozer
Taj
Gasol
Portis
Niko
Lauri

They're all better PFs than P Will, because they're actually PFs. Don't lower your standards. He's not worth resigning to play the 4. Maybe he's better as a 3, but we'll never find out with Billy as the coach. Even if Pat could stay healthy, I'm just not interested in him being a PF on this team anymore.

[League Circles]

Boozer
Taj
Gasol
Portis
Niko
Lauri

They're all better PFs than P Will, because they're actually PFs. Don't lower your standards. He's not worth resigning to play the 4. Maybe he's better as a 3, but we'll never find out with Billy as the coach. Even if Pat could stay healthy, I'm just not interested in him being a PF on this team anymore.

I basically agree, at least if Vuc remains the C for most of the game. That's why I really want to shake things up BEFORE free agency by making some type of trade probably at draft time involving one or more of Vuc, Caruso, Zach and/or Carter. We really don't have a huge need for any of those guys on their contracts so let's see what we can get. Obviously Caruso is a big plus for us, but with Ayo emerging and even Terry and maybe Patrick able to take a lot of Caruso's defensive role, Caruso would need to be the positive piece outgoing that allows us to move Zach, Vuc or Carter and return some kind of piece at the 4/5 spot that allows Patrick to play more at both forward spots.

Patrick and Vuc at the 4/5 is not going to work.

[Ice Man]

Maybe he's better as a 3, but we'll never find out with Billy as the coach.

Who are these true power forwards that Billy benches so that he can stubbornly play Pat at the #4 spot? If a guy is taller than 6' 6", AKME isn't signing him.

[DASMACKDOWN]

Maybe he's better as a 3, but we'll never find out with Billy as the coach.

Who are these true power forwards that Billy benches so that he can stubbornly play Pat at the #4 spot? If a guy is taller than 6' 6", AKME isn't signing him.

To me this is the one thing that I have never really understood so far in the new regime.

Billy Donovan by all accounts, seems to always shy away from guys with size. When you think about it, when he and AKME inherited the team, we had

7'2 Kornet
7'0 Lauri
6'10 Wendell
6'10 Gafford
6'10 Felicio.

We know that Kornet never really played. Nor Felicio. Gafford had a full residency in the dog house before he got traded.

By the beginning of next season

We were left with

6'11 Marko
6'10 Vooch
6-10 Tony Bradley

The first year Bradley barely played and Marko doesnt even deserve a mention.

Last year

6'11 Marko
6'11 Drummond
6-10 Vooch
6-10 Bradley

Since again Marko and Bradley are complete no ones, its only been Vooch and Drum.

THIS SEASON

6-11 Drum
6-10 Vooch

Didnt even bother to grab a guy over 6'9.

So I am trying to figure out, is it Billy or is it AKME?

Its not AKME's fault Billy wants to play Derrick Jones Jr as a backup 5. Same for Terry Taylor. I just cant figure it out.

[jnrjr79]

My guess is the Bulls offer something like 4/60-70. Pat rejects and plays on the QO.

My hope is a S&T.

[DASMACKDOWN]

My guess is the Bulls offer something like 4/60-70. Pat rejects and plays on the QO.

My hope is a S&T.

Seems that is what the Bulls offered before the season 4/64

My guess is they will stick to that.

[jnrjr79]

My guess is the Bulls offer something like 4/60-70. Pat rejects and plays on the QO.

My hope is a S&T.

Seems that is what the Bulls offered before the season 4/64

My guess is they will stick to that.

Right. Nothing that happened this season would seem to suggest the Bulls should up that offer. KC reported Pat wanted "well into the twenties" per year. So, if a deal is going to be struck, Pat is going to have to move way down and really want the security, I guess. Seems more likely he'd bet on himself if he's healthy going into next season.

[League Circles]

My guess is the Bulls offer something like 4/60-70. Pat rejects and plays on the QO.

My hope is a S&T.

Seems that is what the Bulls offered before the season 4/64

My guess is they will stick to that.

Sticking to that would be a mistake for the Bulls IMO, because it surely had projected improvement in it for Patrick, and that really hasn't happened.

[HomoSapien]

KC reported that Pat turned down a 4-year $64m extension earlier before the injury. Given that his qualifying offer is $13 mill, I get why he did but now that offer would look very tempting if I'm him or his reps. He can be set for life and still be 26 years old when he's a free-agent next. If that offer is still on the table, take it and run.

His agent should lobby for it and ask for a series of incentives to increase the value - (i.e. incentives for playing at least 70 games, making the All-Star team, making the All-Defense team, etc.)

[DSand]

The guy dribbles the paint like he has two left hands, has no post game and dunks like he has toes for fingers rather than the PAW.
Despite the mid3 era blocking his development of possibly becoming a feature guy in the offense, he's never taken the reins to even show glimpses that he could become a feature guy except for a handful of breakout games over 4 years. He's most often timid and appears to really just have a ceiling of an upper tier 3&D guy. Possibly not even a starter, where again, despite 4 years of play he doesn't even have a defined position on the floor. Is he a 3 or a 4? I personally would rather we had tried to develop him as a 3 to play with the Lebrons and Kawhis of the world. Ultimately, I just don't see the light turning on for him. Maybe he goes somewhere like Detroit and can have unlimited freedom to develop his game without the expectation of wins or veteran presences stealing all the shots. Upper tier 3&D is his ceiling I predict. With many more questions than answers from him after 4 years in the league, I suppose $15 mil a year and see if he could be part of a young nucleus post mid3 would be acceptable. Don't see our front office going that path though and fully expect another year of Vuc and Demar and whatever Zach turns into.

[Stratmaster]

Maybe he's better as a 3, but we'll never find out with Billy as the coach.

Who are these true power forwards that Billy benches so that he can stubbornly play Pat at the #4 spot? If a guy is taller than 6' 6", AKME isn't signing him.

You don't think Billy is part of that decision? Not that he gets final say on the specific players, but the types of players are absolutely due to Billy's preferences.

At least they are if you believe what people say and do. I see a whole lot of "getting into the minds" of players and coaches on RealGM.

As an old man, about the only advice I give to young men is something I learned way too late in life. Believe what people tell you about themselves the first time. Stop trying to read people's minds and rationalize their behavior.

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

[sco]

Maybe he's better as a 3, but we'll never find out with Billy as the coach.

Who are these true power forwards that Billy benches so that he can stubbornly play Pat at the #4 spot? If a guy is taller than 6' 6", AKME isn't signing him.

You don't think Billy is part of that decision? Not that he gets final say on the specific players, but the types of players are absolutely due to Billy's preferences.

At least they are if you believe what people say and do. I see a whole lot of "getting into the minds" of players and coaches on RealGM.

As an old man, about the only advice I give to young men is something I learned way too late in life. Believe what people tell you about themselves the first time. Stop trying to read people's minds and rationalize their behavior.

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

I think Pat is a mid-tier starting forward. He's good at defending and making open 3's, but he lacks the ball handling skills and post moves to be even a 2nd option scorer. I think he is probably more effective as a 3 than a 4, and would be good sandwiched between strong offensive SG and PF.

I'd otherwise be pushing to S&T him away except, from all accounts he's a hard worker, and those guys seem to come back and pleasantly surprise me with their development.

[GoBlue72391]

The guy dribbles the paint like he has two left hands, has no post game and dunks like he has toes for fingers rather than the PAW.
Despite the mid3 era blocking his development of possibly becoming a feature guy in the offense, he's never taken the reins to even show glimpses that he could become a feature guy except for a handful of breakout games over 4 years. He's most often timid and appears to really just have a ceiling of an upper tier 3&D guy. Possibly not even a starter, where again, despite 4 years of play he doesn't even have a defined position on the floor. Is he a 3 or a 4? I personally would rather we had tried to develop him as a 3 to play with the Lebrons and Kawhis of the world. Ultimately, I just don't see the light turning on for him. Maybe he goes somewhere like Detroit and can have unlimited freedom to develop his game without the expectation of wins or veteran presences stealing all the shots. Upper tier 3&D is his ceiling I predict. With many more questions than answers from him after 4 years in the league, I suppose $15 mil a year and see if he could be part of a young nucleus post mid3 would be acceptable. Don't see our front office going that path though and fully expect another year of Vuc and Demar and whatever Zach turns into.

His horrible ball handling/shot creation and finishing are the real killers for me in regards to his potential, possibly even more so than his timidness/personality concerns.

How do you expect a guy to become a star player, or even a key piece, if he can't dribble or finish at the rim? It's crazy how far behind he is in those areas for a 4th year NBA player, young or not.

[Ice Man]

You don't think Billy is part of that decision?

Let's put it this way: I've not before heard of blaming the coach for a team having a roster hole.

[The Box Office]

He needs to be traded. Some how.

[Stratmaster]

You don't think Billy is part of that decision?

Let's put it this way: I've not before heard of blaming the coach for a team having a roster hole.

Lol. Ok. Whatever. Then you haven't watched sports.

You think the coach has no say in the type of players the front office goes out and gets?

Maybe in the most dysfunctional, horrible management relationships in sports; or for that matter any type of business in the world.

Like I said a long time ago, believe people when they tell you who they are the first time. Billy lives and loves small ball; until, of course, it fails miserably and he starts scurrying to cover his tracks.

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

[Donkedave]

4 years/44m
Flashes don’t mean bugger all it’s all about progress.
Yes he’s playing “out of position” for most of it but not worth a massive contract just because he was pick 4 and “has potential”. Progress hasn’t shown he’s worth big $$
8(TO),10m (TO) 12(TO) 14(PO)
Don’t get me wrong I’d love to see myself proved wrong I just don’t see it right now.

[ChiTownHero1992]

$12-15 is what I want him at, $15-18 is what I think he'll get, $18-22 is what he could get if our FO continues to be dumb as a box of rocks

[DuckIII]

4 years/44m
Flashes don’t mean bugger all it’s all about progress.
Yes he’s playing “out of position” for most of it but not worth a massive contract just because he was pick 4 and “has potential”. Progress hasn’t shown he’s worth big $$
8(TO),10m (TO) 12(TO) 14(PO)
Don’t get me wrong I’d love to see myself proved wrong I just don’t see it right now.

That would be amazing but obviously he’ll never lock himself in to 4 years at that amount. Also you can’t have team options year after year like that.

[sco]

4 years/44m
Flashes don’t mean bugger all it’s all about progress.
Yes he’s playing “out of position” for most of it but not worth a massive contract just because he was pick 4 and “has potential”. Progress hasn’t shown he’s worth big $$
8(TO),10m (TO) 12(TO) 14(PO)
Don’t get me wrong I’d love to see myself proved wrong I just don’t see it right now.

I think if he takes a deal at anything near the MLE ($13/yr), which is arguably his market worth as a marginal starter, I think it would be something like a 3/$40M with the 3rd yr being a PO.