Bulls vs Wizards 7pm CT

[MrSparkle]

I think we have officially entered the point of no interest in watching this team struggle to fight for a Play-In spot. We're not even talking about fighting to be competitive in the Playoffs, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE PLAY-IN. If pulling the plug was ever needed, today is the day.

Lot of tough decisions have to be made this offseason for Bulls Management, curious to see which route they take with the coaching staff and the roster.

Honestly, I don’t think the decisions are that tough. If we were above 500 and had a Dumb and Dumber Lloyd Christmas chance of making the 2nd round, it’d be tough. But as it stands, it seems like they can either make the stupid choice (pay to retain the aging, losing core) or finally begin their 2nd chance at a re-haul before the decade is over. This eastern conference play in doesn’t get any easier: Miami’s been pacing all year, Knicks lost OG and Brunson, Philly lost freaking Embiid, Hawks lost Trae, Indy’s cooled off hard for a free fall, Nets are a disaster, Toronto and Charlotte nuked for a tank… do they need any more life jackets? The Bulls cannot capitalize on any of this. Just how low have the standards gone? They’ve had 2 years to plan around not having an active Lonzo, they’ve demonstrated that Zach was not going to be a part of this team’s success… and otherwise this core as we knew it has been healthy and available.

Slow clap for Coby and Ayo playing fairly well… but besides them looking like NBA caliber players instead of fringe bench players, we don’t have a playoff team yesterday, today nor tomorrow. And I’m not daring to use the C word (contending).

[FriedRise]

I think we have officially entered the point of no interest in watching this team struggle to fight for a Play-In spot. We're not even talking about fighting to be competitive in the Playoffs, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE PLAY-IN. If pulling the plug was ever needed, today is the day.

Lot of tough decisions have to be made this offseason for Bulls Management, curious to see which route they take with the coaching staff and the roster.

The fighting is now happening on the court on almost a nightly basis. Somebody is always getting T’d up or a flagrant because they’re taking all their frustration on opposing teams. And we mostly have good guys in that locker room.

AK completely has botched this team by mistaking insanity with continuity.

[drosestruts]

I think we have officially entered the point of no interest in watching this team struggle to fight for a Play-In spot. We're not even talking about fighting to be competitive in the Playoffs, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE PLAY-IN. If pulling the plug was ever needed, today is the day.

Lot of tough decisions have to be made this offseason for Bulls Management, curious to see which route they take with the coaching staff and the roster.

Honestly, I don’t think the decisions are that tough. If we were above 500 and had a Dumb and Dumber Lloyd Christmas chance of making the 2nd round, it’d be tough. But as it stands, it seems like they can either make the stupid choice (pay to retain the aging, losing core) or finally begin their 2nd chance at a re-haul before the decade is over. This eastern conference play in doesn’t get any easier: Miami’s been pacing all year, Knicks lost OG and Brunson, Philly lost freaking Embiid, Hawks lost Trae, Indy’s cooled off hard for a free fall, Nets are a disaster, Toronto and Charlotte nuked for a tank… do they need any more life jackets? The Bulls cannot capitalize on any of this. Just how low have the standards gone? They’ve had 2 years to plan around not having an active Lonzo, they’ve demonstrated that Zach was not going to be a part of this team’s success… and otherwise this core as we knew it has been healthy and available.

Slow clap for Coby and Ayo playing fairly well… but besides them looking like NBA caliber players instead of fringe bench players, we don’t have a playoff team yesterday, today nor tomorrow. And I’m not daring to use the C word (contending).

I don' think it's hard to imagine a brighter future for a team that plays around .500 while missing ~$70m in players for a majority of the year.

And I think there's often misalignment in what "beginning a 2nd chance at a re-haul before the decade is over looks like"

If you want to rebuild - you trade Williams, Ayo, and Coby for whatever assets they're worth because those are most likely you're most valuable assets.

You don't kick start a rebuild by trading depreciated assets like Ball, LaVine, and Vuc or underappreciated assets like DeRozan (yes he's old, but also yes he's still very good).

I also think this is a playoff caliber team that simply dug themselves too deep of a hole by starting off the season so poorly.

Who are the Bulls? the team that started the season 5-14 or the team that since then is 28-24. I'd say the 4-month sample size is probably a better reflection of who we are over the one month sample size.

[madvillian]

I think we have officially entered the point of no interest in watching this team struggle to fight for a Play-In spot. We're not even talking about fighting to be competitive in the Playoffs, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE PLAY-IN. If pulling the plug was ever needed, today is the day.

Lot of tough decisions have to be made this offseason for Bulls Management, curious to see which route they take with the coaching staff and the roster.

Honestly, I don’t think the decisions are that tough. If we were above 500 and had a Dumb and Dumber Lloyd Christmas chance of making the 2nd round, it’d be tough. But as it stands, it seems like they can either make the stupid choice (pay to retain the aging, losing core) or finally begin their 2nd chance at a re-haul before the decade is over. This eastern conference play in doesn’t get any easier: Miami’s been pacing all year, Knicks lost OG and Brunson, Philly lost freaking Embiid, Hawks lost Trae, Indy’s cooled off hard for a free fall, Nets are a disaster, Toronto and Charlotte nuked for a tank… do they need any more life jackets? The Bulls cannot capitalize on any of this. Just how low have the standards gone? They’ve had 2 years to plan around not having an active Lonzo, they’ve demonstrated that Zach was not going to be a part of this team’s success… and otherwise this core as we knew it has been healthy and available.

Slow clap for Coby and Ayo playing fairly well… but besides them looking like NBA caliber players instead of fringe bench players, we don’t have a playoff team yesterday, today nor tomorrow. And I’m not daring to use the C word (contending).

I don' think it's hard to imagine a brighter future for a team that plays around .500 while missing ~$70m in players for a majority of the year.

And I think there's often misalignment in what "beginning a 2nd chance at a re-haul before the decade is over looks like"

If you want to rebuild - you trade Williams, Ayo, and Coby for whatever assets they're worth because those are most likely you're most valuable assets.

You don't kick start a rebuild by trading depreciated assets like Ball, LaVine, and Vuc or underappreciated assets like DeRozan (yes he's old, but also yes he's still very good).

I also think this is a playoff caliber team that simply dug themselves too deep of a hole by starting off the season so poorly.

Who are the Bulls? the team that started the season 5-14 or the team that since then is 28-24. I'd say the 4-month sample size is probably a better reflection of who we are over the one month sample size.

It would be a retool, not a full rebuild. Trade Vuc for 10 cents on the dollar, take back a bad contract and find a better defensive oriented center. Pat is the only young asset we really need to make a decision on, the other guys we can all just allow to grow as they will, hopefully increasing their value.

There's a lot of daylight between "continuity" and "rebuild". As for "who the bulls are"? It's clear that they are basically a 38 win team. I don't see any point in saying they are a 28-24 team. They are what the record says they are at the end of the year, not some 50 game stretch. The games at the beginning count too.

[FriedRise]

They're never gonna rebuild or do anything drastic because...

Read on Twitter

[MrSparkle]

I think we have officially entered the point of no interest in watching this team struggle to fight for a Play-In spot. We're not even talking about fighting to be competitive in the Playoffs, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE PLAY-IN. If pulling the plug was ever needed, today is the day.

Lot of tough decisions have to be made this offseason for Bulls Management, curious to see which route they take with the coaching staff and the roster.

Honestly, I don’t think the decisions are that tough. If we were above 500 and had a Dumb and Dumber Lloyd Christmas chance of making the 2nd round, it’d be tough. But as it stands, it seems like they can either make the stupid choice (pay to retain the aging, losing core) or finally begin their 2nd chance at a re-haul before the decade is over. This eastern conference play in doesn’t get any easier: Miami’s been pacing all year, Knicks lost OG and Brunson, Philly lost freaking Embiid, Hawks lost Trae, Indy’s cooled off hard for a free fall, Nets are a disaster, Toronto and Charlotte nuked for a tank… do they need any more life jackets? The Bulls cannot capitalize on any of this. Just how low have the standards gone? They’ve had 2 years to plan around not having an active Lonzo, they’ve demonstrated that Zach was not going to be a part of this team’s success… and otherwise this core as we knew it has been healthy and available.

Slow clap for Coby and Ayo playing fairly well… but besides them looking like NBA caliber players instead of fringe bench players, we don’t have a playoff team yesterday, today nor tomorrow. And I’m not daring to use the C word (contending).

I don' think it's hard to imagine a brighter future for a team that plays around .500 while missing ~$70m in players for a majority of the year.

And I think there's often misalignment in what "beginning a 2nd chance at a re-haul before the decade is over looks like"

If you want to rebuild - you trade Williams, Ayo, and Coby for whatever assets they're worth because those are most likely you're most valuable assets.

You don't kick start a rebuild by trading depreciated assets like Ball, LaVine, and Vuc or underappreciated assets like DeRozan (yes he's old, but also yes he's still very good).

I also think this is a playoff caliber team that simply dug themselves too deep of a hole by starting off the season so poorly.

Who are the Bulls? the team that started the season 5-14 or the team that since then is 28-24. I'd say the 4-month sample size is probably a better reflection of who we are over the one month sample size.

I believe they’re definitively worse than 8 of the top-10 East teams. I’d say the Trae-less Hawks (or with Trae) and Embiid-less Sixers are more of a toss-up, but to claim we’re a playoff team with that 28-24 record is a bit of a toss-up. We win some lucky scrappy games, and give excellent effort some nights, but to claim we’re playoff caliber… when we’re not… is just a waste of breath.

The 82 game sample size is leaning towards “not playoff caliber.” And since the $45m elephant made us even less playoff caliber, I don’t see how his loss changes the narrative. Getting some mid tier veterans for his income would’ve helped a bit, but we’d also hit the same walls. Frankly, we have a crowded guard-heavy roster (despite mainly missing injured guards), and I don’t think Zach was going to bring in useful big men via trade.

AK’s done too little, too late. And now his job keeps getting harder. Resigning Demar and Pat to their fair market values is going to be a challenge, and it’s not going to guarantee playoff competitiveness next year.

[Stratmaster]

LaVine at no point has ever been the Bulls best player.

Lol. Really? The only debate would be between him and Demar. Who was better than him before Demar got here?

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[Stratmaster]

Worse than Fred Hoiberg?

Donovan isn't a perfect coach, but I also don't think he's completely terrible. The team started complaining recently, but before that they showed some fight in them.

Keep in mind this is a team without it's starting shooting guard (Zach) for most of the season and it's starting PF for half the year (Patrick Williams). Plus, the team is undersized at PF.

I'm surprised that they'll get around the same wins as last season when you consider everything that happened this year.

But the team is better without Lavine, remember? Just ask Billy. You know, the guy who managed to diminish and alienate the best player on the team.

Williams isn't a starting PF. The Bulls lose absolutely nothing other than a warm body by him not playing.

The Bulls didn't show fight. Coby played over his head for a stretch, and then Ayo did. Ayo is about the only guy on the roster I care if I see back next season. He and maybe Craig. Everyone else plays stupid.

People need to stop listening to Stacey King's "it's all about effort" shtick. Fight doesn't mean anything. Talent and a well-rehearsed purposeful approach to playing basketball does. This team should have easily won 45 games last season, and this season has been a **** show.

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I don't disagree that the season hasn't been good outside of Ayo and Coby improving.

Zach LaVine wanted out and then opted for surgery. He doesn't want to be here. What should Billy do about that? I know they've clashed before, but it was never anything major. Has Zach proven that he's a player you build around? Nope.

Right now he's a 40+ million dollar player who might have negative value. Hopefully someone gives us something more than neutral value for him, but it'll probably take some time (with Zach showcasing what he can do).

I don't care what Stacey King says. I'm just referring to when the team played well and that was due to good effort. I don't think this team is very good overall and I'm one who has said they should rebuild (I said this a long long time ago).

As for Patrick Williams he was playing okay for awhile there, but I agree that he's not a good starter. The problem is who else can play PF that has size?

He didn't "want out". After a year of him being shopped, he agreed "to cooperate".

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[Dan Z]

But the team is better without Lavine, remember? Just ask Billy. You know, the guy who managed to diminish and alienate the best player on the team.

Williams isn't a starting PF. The Bulls lose absolutely nothing other than a warm body by him not playing.

The Bulls didn't show fight. Coby played over his head for a stretch, and then Ayo did. Ayo is about the only guy on the roster I care if I see back next season. He and maybe Craig. Everyone else plays stupid.

People need to stop listening to Stacey King's "it's all about effort" shtick. Fight doesn't mean anything. Talent and a well-rehearsed purposeful approach to playing basketball does. This team should have easily won 45 games last season, and this season has been a **** show.

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I don't disagree that the season hasn't been good outside of Ayo and Coby improving.

Zach LaVine wanted out and then opted for surgery. He doesn't want to be here. What should Billy do about that? I know they've clashed before, but it was never anything major. Has Zach proven that he's a player you build around? Nope.

Right now he's a 40+ million dollar player who might have negative value. Hopefully someone gives us something more than neutral value for him, but it'll probably take some time (with Zach showcasing what he can do).

I don't care what Stacey King says. I'm just referring to when the team played well and that was due to good effort. I don't think this team is very good overall and I'm one who has said they should rebuild (I said this a long long time ago).

As for Patrick Williams he was playing okay for awhile there, but I agree that he's not a good starter. The problem is who else can play PF that has size?

He didn't "want out". After a year of him being shopped, he agreed "to cooperate".

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Are you sure about that? I don't recall there being any reports of Zach being on the trading block previous to this season, but I could be wrong.

If they've been shopping him then why did they sign to the big contract he got?

[drosestruts]

I often hear we're better without Zach - yet as a team we're headed for a similar or worse record than the past two seasons in which Zach played?

[Stratmaster]

I don't disagree that the season hasn't been good outside of Ayo and Coby improving.

Zach LaVine wanted out and then opted for surgery. He doesn't want to be here. What should Billy do about that? I know they've clashed before, but it was never anything major. Has Zach proven that he's a player you build around? Nope.

Right now he's a 40+ million dollar player who might have negative value. Hopefully someone gives us something more than neutral value for him, but it'll probably take some time (with Zach showcasing what he can do).

I don't care what Stacey King says. I'm just referring to when the team played well and that was due to good effort. I don't think this team is very good overall and I'm one who has said they should rebuild (I said this a long long time ago).

As for Patrick Williams he was playing okay for awhile there, but I agree that he's not a good starter. The problem is who else can play PF that has size?

He didn't "want out". After a year of him being shopped, he agreed "to cooperate".

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Are you sure about that? I don't recall there being any reports of Zach being on the trading block previous to this season, but I could be wrong.

If they've been shopping him then why did they sign to the big contract he got?

"The Chicago Bulls began to gauge the trade value of two-time All-Star guard Zach LaVine this past offseason, according to league sources familiar with the matter, even offering LaVine to several teams in search of packages that were equivalent to those of recent superstar returns. Now following a 4-8 start to this 2023-24 campaign, Chicago and LaVine share a mutual interest in finding a trade for the athletic scorer, sources confirmed."

They started trying to trade him as soon as last season ended. There was never even a hint of "Zach wants out" before they started trying to trade him, and as you can see, it became a "mutual interest" after 12 games into this season.

Still has never been reported that any reputable source said Zach "wants out". "Mutual interest" and "agreed to cooperate" with a trade are the only source quotes I have ever seen, and those were all after he had been on the trading block for months.

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[Dan Z]

He didn't "want out". After a year of him being shopped, he agreed "to cooperate".

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Are you sure about that? I don't recall there being any reports of Zach being on the trading block previous to this season, but I could be wrong.

If they've been shopping him then why did they sign to the big contract he got?

"The Chicago Bulls began to gauge the trade value of two-time All-Star guard Zach LaVine this past offseason, according to league sources familiar with the matter, even offering LaVine to several teams in search of packages that were equivalent to those of recent superstar returns. Now following a 4-8 start to this 2023-24 campaign, Chicago and LaVine share a mutual interest in finding a trade for the athletic scorer, sources confirmed."

They started trying to trade him as soon as last season ended. There was never even a hint of "Zach wants out" before they started trying to trade him, and as you can see, it became a "mutual interest" after 12 games into this season.

Still has never been reported that any reputable source said Zach "wants out". "Mutual interest" and "agreed to cooperate" with a trade are the only source quotes I have ever seen, and those were all after he had been on the trading block for months.

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If AK was asking for a "superstar return" for Zach then that was foolish.

I originally mentioned Zach because it's been a bad year for him and for the team overall. I can't blame Donovan for that and I don't put all the blame on Zach either (he can't help being injured).

[Stratmaster]

Are you sure about that? I don't recall there being any reports of Zach being on the trading block previous to this season, but I could be wrong.

If they've been shopping him then why did they sign to the big contract he got?

"The Chicago Bulls began to gauge the trade value of two-time All-Star guard Zach LaVine this past offseason, according to league sources familiar with the matter, even offering LaVine to several teams in search of packages that were equivalent to those of recent superstar returns. Now following a 4-8 start to this 2023-24 campaign, Chicago and LaVine share a mutual interest in finding a trade for the athletic scorer, sources confirmed."

They started trying to trade him as soon as last season ended. There was never even a hint of "Zach wants out" before they started trying to trade him, and as you can see, it became a "mutual interest" after 12 games into this season.

Still has never been reported that any reputable source said Zach "wants out". "Mutual interest" and "agreed to cooperate" with a trade are the only source quotes I have ever seen, and those were all after he had been on the trading block for months.

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If AK was asking for a "superstar return" for Zach then that was foolish.

I originally mentioned Zach because it's been a bad year for him and for the team overall. I can't blame Donovan for that and I don't put all the blame on Zach either (he can't help being injured).

What was the excuse for Billy last season?

Billy has used Lavine as his scapegoat since he got here. Remember, "we want to see how the team looks without Lavine"? Who do you think has been feeding that to the front office?

What is the first rule for a new head coach? Establish and develop your relationships with your best players. At least, that is usually what they have to do to keep their jobs.

Now that Zach is out, it is the injury excuse. Now he talks about how much the team misses all the injured players. Essentially, Lavine was the scapegoat then because he was playing. Now he is the excuse because he isn't playing. Which is it, Billy?

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[TheGOATRises007]

LaVine at no point has ever been the Bulls best player.

No reason to lie.

When was he the best player?

And don't tell me it's because he scored the most points prior to DeRozan coming.

His +- was awful and his advanced metrics were eh.

[Stratmaster]

LaVine at no point has ever been the Bulls best player.

No reason to lie.

When was he the best player?

And don't tell me it's because he scored the most points prior to DeRozan coming.

His +- was awful and his advanced metrics were eh.

Lavine's advanced metrics were great. What are you talking about? Average PER of 20 for 5 seasons. 3 consecutive seasons with a TS% over .600, including a .634 in 20-21. BPM and VORP averaging just below 3. 2 all-star appearances. His career stats are very comparable to that Derozan guy. Their career per36 stats are almost identical.

You can not like Lavine without just making stuff up and thinking because you say them they are true.

[Sinistar6]

From 2018-2019 to 2022-23 season ZL averaged no less than 23.7 points with a career year of 27.4 in 2020-2022 with 58 games played. Last year in 77 games ZL averaged 24.8.

[TheGOATRises007]

No reason to lie.

When was he the best player?

And don't tell me it's because he scored the most points prior to DeRozan coming.

His +- was awful and his advanced metrics were eh.

Lavine's advanced metrics were great. What are you talking about? Average PER of 20 for 5 seasons. 3 consecutive seasons with a TS% over .600, including a .634 in 20-21. BPM and VORP averaging just below 3. 2 all-star appearances. His career stats are very comparable to that Derozan guy. Their career per36 stats are almost identical.

You can not like Lavine without just making stuff up and thinking because you say them they are true.

You and I have a very different definition of great.

[Dan Z]

"The Chicago Bulls began to gauge the trade value of two-time All-Star guard Zach LaVine this past offseason, according to league sources familiar with the matter, even offering LaVine to several teams in search of packages that were equivalent to those of recent superstar returns. Now following a 4-8 start to this 2023-24 campaign, Chicago and LaVine share a mutual interest in finding a trade for the athletic scorer, sources confirmed."

They started trying to trade him as soon as last season ended. There was never even a hint of "Zach wants out" before they started trying to trade him, and as you can see, it became a "mutual interest" after 12 games into this season.

Still has never been reported that any reputable source said Zach "wants out". "Mutual interest" and "agreed to cooperate" with a trade are the only source quotes I have ever seen, and those were all after he had been on the trading block for months.

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If AK was asking for a "superstar return" for Zach then that was foolish.

I originally mentioned Zach because it's been a bad year for him and for the team overall. I can't blame Donovan for that and I don't put all the blame on Zach either (he can't help being injured).

What was the excuse for Billy last season?

Billy has used Lavine as his scapegoat since he got here. Remember, "we want to see how the team looks without Lavine"? Who do you think has been feeding that to the front office?

What is the first rule for a new head coach? Establish and develop your relationships with your best players. At least, that is usually what they have to do to keep their jobs.

Now that Zach is out, it is the injury excuse. Now he talks about how much the team misses all the injured players. Essentially, Lavine was the scapegoat then because he was playing. Now he is the excuse because he isn't playing. Which is it, Billy?

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Over a year ago I asked: What would Zach's career look like if DDR never came to Chicago? I think it's possible that Zach would be in year 10 with ZERO playoff games. I know it's not entirely on him and that many of the teams he's been on have been bad. However, he hasn't proven himself to be the kind of player who can carry a team (be the #1 option), but I don't think he's a bad player.

When it comes to Donovan I doubt that he came here and immediately alienated Zach. I'm not sure if there really is any beef between the two, even though I know there have been reports of the two of them clashing at times.

You think Billy told AK to trade him? I have my doubts about that too and, if true, why didn't AK trade him last year? I guess you could argue that he asked for too much ("Superstar haul"), but like I previously said that's foolish to expect. Plus, if AK really believed that Zach doesn't fit why didn't he figure out some kind of deal so both parties can move on...?

[Red8911]

Keep seeing rebuild,it’s really not necessary. You keep the young guys Coby, Ayo, Philips, Pat(if they resign him to decent deal) new rookie and of course keep Demar. The rest of the roster can be retooled if AK is creative.

[Charlesareed]

Keep seeing rebuild,it’s really not necessary. You keep the young guys Coby, Ayo, Philips, Pat(if they resign him to decent deal) new rookie and of course keep Demar. The rest of the roster can be retooled if AK is creative.

This how I feel and I think it’s time for paw to gtfoh to he can’t even rebound well enough to be 6’7 he got a very low motor