Kudos to NCAA Women's Tourney for tonight's matchups

[Ice Man]

Anyone know why former WNBA players seem to despise Clark?

Isiah Thomas could tell you why.

[DuckIII]

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I guess it’s like the 80s and 90s players, some of them refusing to give credit to this generation of players.

If I were a WNBA team and finances meant nothing, I would be giving serious consideration to Bueckers over Clark if they were in the same draft. I’d still draft Clark in part because of Bueckers’ injury history. But my point is it’s not like it’s some laughable haters-only notion.

Also, I took that clip by Bird and Taurasi as being tongue in cheek blatant UCONN homers (certainly with Bird).

Regardless if all that, there is an obvious and ongoing stream of ridiculous hate directed towards Clark from a lot of past greats and it’s really sad. Obviously male players in all sports have a history of doing it to, but this is different. After decades of complaining about how women’s hoops gets no respect, a woman comes along who makes the the world pay attention and respect the game, and she’s likeable and does it the right way, and she gets all these bitter remarks from women who are likely her heroes?

P.S. And in this case, yes, I do include things like “well, she’s going have to play against professional women soon” and “she can’t be NCAA GOAT without a title” to be hate. They aren’t being said in the tone of an objective observation. They are said as thinly veiled criticisms because there aren’t any valid ones to make.

[Ice Man]

If I were a WNBA team and finances meant nothing, I would be giving serious consideration to Bueckers over Clark if they were in the same draft.

That one, I don't see. I love Bueckers. She has Jimmy Butler's game. Scores, rebounds, passes, defends, doesn't foul, doesn't make turnovers, high BBIQ, plays the percentages. You want players like that on your team, always. The more the merrier. Truth is, she does more things well than Clark. But the two things that Clark does REALLY well, passing to cutters for layups and shooting from distance, are REALLY valuable.

But hey, we shall see.

[DuckIII]

If I were a WNBA team and finances meant nothing, I would be giving serious consideration to Bueckers over Clark if they were in the same draft.

That one, I don't see. I love Bueckers. She has Jimmy Butler's game. Scores, rebounds, passes, defends, doesn't foul, doesn't make turnovers, high BBIQ, plays the percentages. You want players like that on your team, always. The more the merrier. Truth is, she does more things well than Clark. But the two things that Clark does REALLY well, passing to cutters for layups and shooting from distance, are REALLY valuable.

But hey, we shall see.

I would still take Clark. I’m just saying I don’t think it’s hate to say otherwise. Bueckers will be a superstar in the WNBA if healthy.

[Wingy]

Fun game, SC had them completely outclassed. 37-0 or something like that bench points is insane. About as sweet as revenge can get for them.

SC will be the easy favorite again. Just looked and unless the portal gets them, they have every player that saw the floor yesterday coming back except for Cardoso. Staley can clearly recruit so I’m sure even more talent is coming. Seems pretty obvious she’s going to climb the ranks of women’s coaches and has more titles in her.

Not that it would’ve changed the result, and maybe she’s the kind of player that just gets gassed, but surprised Stuelke got only 27 mins when most of the starters played the whole game (3 of 5), and the other played 35.

Clark, the impact, just…just, wow. Hope she can keep in rolling and make a great 1-2 punch with Boston in the pros.

[Ice Man]

SC will be the easy favorite again.

Or UConn. Geno also has 10 All Americans, but half of them were hurt this year. Presumably, they will not be next year. And Geno just inked the #1 prospect in the country, Sarah Strong, who hails from just north of Dawn Staley, in North Carolina. Strong should be particularly handy against South Carolina, because she is what her name implies -- a physical powerhouse who dominates on the boards. (Being a modern big, she also shoots 3s and is said to be able to play point forward.)

After that, yeah. Barring injuries, those teams should roll anybody that they face. Women's NCAA has superteams in a way that the men's sport cannot, because the women can't go pro until they turn 22 (or graduate).

[Wingy]

Or UConn.

Good point, I may stand immediately corrected. I didn’t know about their injuries until the Final Four, pretty wild.

Plus I forgot perhaps the biggest factor: Paige Bueckers.

Having that experienced superstar is huge. Hadn’t looked at any recruits til you mentioned it, but yeah, Strong is a beast and the quick clip of her 3 ball looked smooth. That’s an incredible combo.

SC apparently has the #2 recruit to counter. Watched about a minute of her highlights, but quick eye test says it would be a surprise if she didn’t impact the college level.

Gonna be clash of the titans with those two. Wonder if USC got some help for JuJu.

[Ice Man]

Gonna be clash of the titans with those two. Wonder if USC got some help for JuJu.

USC got the #6, #23, and #28 prospects. But South Carolina got #2, #12, and #26, while UConn got #1, #4, and #18.

https://www.espn.com/high-school/girls-basketball/recruiting/rankings/_/class/2024

Women's NCAA hoops is so top heavy. It will be a LONG time before a team with only one McDonald's All-American makes consecutive appearances in the Final. Like basically never again, not as long as the recruiting continues to look like this.

[TheSuzerain]

SC vs UConn would be fun. SC though should have some nasty lineups:

Mulwiley
Paopao
Tessa Johnson
Random big
Random big

[Ice Man]

SC vs UConn would be fun. SC though should have some nasty lineups:

Mulwiley
Paopao
Tessa Johnson
Random big
Random big

UConn's counter -

Ice Brady 6' 3" - Junior
Sarah Strong 6' 2" - Freshman
Paige Bueckers 5' 11" - Senior
Azzi Fudd - 5 '11" Junior
KK Arnold - 5' 9 Soph

With the #4 ranked incoming freshman, guard Allie Ziebell, looking to crack the lineup.

Can we schedule a 7-game series?

[dougthonus]

Regardless if all that, there is an obvious and ongoing stream of ridiculous hate directed towards Clark from a lot of past greats and it’s really sad. Obviously male players in all sports have a history of doing it to, but this is different. After decades of complaining about how women’s hoops gets no respect, a woman comes along who makes the the world pay attention and respect the game, and she’s likeable and does it the right way, and she gets all these bitter remarks from women who are likely her heroes?

Caitlin Clark + the ESPN hype machine has basically single handedly doubled the viewership of women's basketball. If that translates to the WNBA, then that's great for everyone involved with it. That said, to keep the hype going, she'll need an ongoing foil / set of enemies, so whether it's stupid or not, the old timers may be doing her a favor but positioning her as the underdog still.

Clark is certainly amazing, but I think bigger than her own individual greatness was a combination of the two most popular basketball stories: the david vs goliath underdog story and the great white hope story.

A transcendent white star with a mostly white, pedestrian, supporting cast having to go through multiple bigger, stronger, deeper, mostly black super teams to win the title. She never got all the way there, but she did beat a couple of those super teams and got to the end both times.

As far as Clark, her WNBA life is going to likely get much easier than her college life. Odds are that she won't be in nearly such a state of talent disparity over the long haul.

[Ice Man]

Clark is certainly amazing, but I think bigger than her own individual greatness was a combination of the two most popular basketball stories: the david vs goliath underdog story and the great white hope story.

Correct. To which I would add not just the great white hope story, but the great white hope Iowa story. I don't think the myth would have been as powerful if that team had been UCLA.

Odds are that she won't be in nearly such a state of talent disparity over the long haul.

Not even close. Things will be VERY different for Caitlin. She can settle into a conventional role of floor leader, rather than have to be like Mike against the '86 Celtics, but even more so. (The Celts outrebounded the Bulls by 7 per game, not 21.)

[TheSuzerain]

WNBA player pettiness is annoying. That story arc could have a fun conclusion though if she just crushes.

It is a bizarre situation. Caitlyn Clark is truly way bigger than the WNBA which is a very strange occurrence within a team sport.

[Ice Man]

WNBA player pettiness is annoying.

There's some of that going on, but it's also true that people who don't like the WBNA have been making a very big meal out of a few questionably comments. I take this all with a big helping of salt.

[jc23]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/iowa-south-carolina-ncaa-championship-game-smashes-tv-ratings-record-for-womens-basketball/ar-BB1libAa

The number of viewers peaked at 24 million and drew an average of 18.7 million viewers during a game in which South Carolina prevailed over Caitlin Clark and Iowa, 87-75, at Rocket Mortgage FieldHouse in Cleveland.

the game was the most-watched sporting event since 2019, with the exception of football and the Olympics, according to ESPN. It also was the most watched basketball game of any level since 2019, according to ESPN.

cool sport experience following Clark these last 2 years.

[Ice Man]

Viewership for the Final - 18.7 million, peaking at 24 million. The highest viewership for a basketball game since 2019.

[Wingy]

SC vs UConn would be fun. SC though should have some nasty lineups:

Mulwiley
Paopao
Tessa Johnson
Random big
Random big

UConn's counter -

Ice Brady 6' 3" - Junior
Sarah Strong 6' 2" - Freshman
Paige Bueckers 5' 11" - Senior
Azzi Fudd - 5 '11" Junior
KK Arnold - 5' 9 Soph

With the #4 ranked incoming freshman, guard Allie Ziebell, looking to crack the lineup.

Can we schedule a 7-game series?

SC will still have 2 incumbent starters TheSuzerain didn't even list. You'd think 6'3" Ashley Watkins would step in as a starter...a 20 rebound game off the bench in a Final Four game says she's probably pretty good. Then they have that #2 overall recruit. Just loaded.

Part of me says yuck with people being perhaps overly obsessed with ring culture (esp. for college), but then part of me really likes that these young kids put aside their egos for winning. I don't know, getting loaded up like this feels like it's been the story for as long as I can remember with UConn. At least there's someone to rival them now.

[Jcool0]

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[Ice Man]

The men's Final essentially tied with last year for the lowest viewership since the numbers started being tabulated, in 1975. Back in the day, 30 million would watch the men's Final.

The current women's TV contract is for $6.5 million and the men's for $873 million. I think the women might be asking for a raise when this contract expires.

[DASMACKDOWN]

If I were a WNBA team and finances meant nothing, I would be giving serious consideration to Bueckers over Clark if they were in the same draft.

That one, I don't see. I love Bueckers. She has Jimmy Butler's game. Scores, rebounds, passes, defends, doesn't foul, doesn't make turnovers, high BBIQ, plays the percentages. You want players like that on your team, always. The more the merrier. Truth is, she does more things well than Clark. But the two things that Clark does REALLY well, passing to cutters for layups and shooting from distance, are REALLY valuable.

But hey, we shall see.

I agree for the most part. But essentially, no one will chose Jimmy Butler over Steph Curry.

Its not an exact comp but you get what I mean.