Your offseason plans for the Bulls

[Chi town]

if you wanted to see what the young guys could do:

trade 11 to the Pelicans for 18 and 21

Draft Tristan da Silva and Tyler Smith.

Re-sign Williams to a hopefully team-friendly deal

Explore what Vuc + PDX 1st can get you (trade to Washington for Richaun Holmes or something)

Offer the full MLE to Hartenstein and see if it's too much tax for New York

Explore sign and trades for Drummond and DeRozan (breaks my heart), at worst just let them walk

Trade Caruso and LaVine to Golden State for Kuminga, CP3, and Wiggins. GS turned down Caruso for Kuminga at the deadline, does a Lavine for CP3 and Wiggins swap tilt the scales?


CP3/Ball/Dosunmu/Carter
White/Dosumu/Terry/Bitim
Williams/Wiggins
Kuminga/da Silva/Phillips
Hartenstein/Smith/Holmes

We still have a vet leader around in CP3 (i do think there's value in veteran leadership that can still contribute on the court)

Young guys get all the opportunity they can handle. sink or swim.

I’m not making any trades that send out 3pt shooting and get none back.

We need to be adding shooting not subtracting.

[Guru]

Derozan just doesn't make sense to retain.

It is universally agreed we don't have a team that can actually contend. AK said as much.

The only thing Demar does is cost us our 1st rounder next year by lifting us to the late lotto. That's it.

Maybe their preference is to pay out that pick next year.

I think they think (and I somewhat think) that Demar creates a climate that allows players like the #11, White, Ayo, Williams and Terry to reach their potential......I agree. I also think it's not worth 40M. Not worth 30M.

[Guru]

FWIW they need to do a much better job selling hope. DDR doesn't do that. I would be happier with Knecht and DDR gone.

[Almost Retired]

Look what the Thunder have in the way of future Draft picks. ANd they finished with the second best record in the league this year. They are set up to be a real dynasty. Sam Presti is a savant level executive compared to our hapless duo. Presti could form a competitive second Thunder team with all the high draft picks they have accumulated.
https://okcthunderwire.usatoday.com/lists/updated-okc-thunder-draft-pick-assets-protections-through-2030/

[League Circles]

Look what the Thunder have in the way of future Draft picks. ANd they finished with the second best record in the league this year. They are set up to be a real dynasty. Sam Presti is a savant level executive compared to our hapless duo. Presti could form a competitive second Thunder team with all the high draft picks they have accumulated.
https://okcthunderwire.usatoday.com/lists/updated-okc-thunder-draft-pick-assets-protections-through-2030/

I see lots of quantity but very little quality. Basically a bunch of second rounders and some likely mid to late firsts. They're certainly in a very nice spot, but moreso because of who they already have than some inevitable improvement due to incoming picks. Most of those they'll have to trade or waste just due to roster spots.

[madvillian]

Look what the Thunder have in the way of future Draft picks. ANd they finished with the second best record in the league this year. They are set up to be a real dynasty. Sam Presti is a savant level executive compared to our hapless duo. Presti could form a competitive second Thunder team with all the high draft picks they have accumulated.
https://okcthunderwire.usatoday.com/lists/updated-okc-thunder-draft-pick-assets-protections-through-2030/

I see lots of quantity but very little quality. Basically a bunch of second rounders and some likely mid to late firsts. They're certainly in a very nice spot, but moreso because of who they already have than some inevitable improvement due to incoming picks. Most of those they'll have to trade or waste just due to roster spots.

They are in a great spot because they have a superstar. Maybe we'll find one again someday.

[Axl Rose]

Look what the Thunder have in the way of future Draft picks. ANd they finished with the second best record in the league this year. They are set up to be a real dynasty. Sam Presti is a savant level executive compared to our hapless duo. Presti could form a competitive second Thunder team with all the high draft picks they have accumulated.
https://okcthunderwire.usatoday.com/lists/updated-okc-thunder-draft-pick-assets-protections-through-2030/

I see lots of quantity but very little quality. Basically a bunch of second rounders and some likely mid to late firsts. They're certainly in a very nice spot, but moreso because of who they already have than some inevitable improvement due to incoming picks. Most of those they'll have to trade or waste just due to roster spots.

True but it still sets them up with our old favorite word: Flexibility. All those improve your ability to make trades and who knows maybe you strike on one of those mid 1sts or 2nds also (you don't need a superstar just a high caliber player).

I thought one of the reasons our last rebuild went so poor was our lack of draft capital. We had our pick and that was it.

[Guru]

I have been pretty positive about AKME. I just can't fathom DDR for 40M. Maybe they are just trying to see if they can piss off all of us remaining supporters.

[MrSparkle]

I have been pretty positive about AKME. I just can't fathom DDR for 40M. Maybe they are just trying to see if they can piss off all of us remaining supporters.

I unfortunately can. When you offer a borderline/recent all star vet an extension, a short one at that (1-2y), anything below the max is kind of insulting.

It should have been fairly obvious that you pay the 24/5/4 guy $40m salary, or you move him. He did his job far beyond expectations, while Zach and Lonzo collected sizable paychecks at the rehab center.

If Bulls want to test the market, they can, but they risk a big “**** you.”

[Peelboy]

What I think they'll do:
- Trade Lavine for fractional pennies on the dollar.
- Make noise about trading Vuc, but not do it because their demands for return are too high.
- Resign DDR something like 2/$80 or 3/$100 but potentially some kind of PO or TO.
- With the 11th pick, pass on guys with established skills for some raw athleticism and a kid who's a "nice guy," basically this year's PW/DT. Someone who in a year or 2 we can realistically say "I think maybe he can be a rotation player."
- Based on some workouts, hold onto Lonzo as the potential midseason acquisition that they think can skyrocket this team from a 35-win to a 39-win pace.

What they should do:
- Trade Vuc
- Trade AC for a FRP, if you can, get a 2d thrown in.
- Resign PW to a reasonable deal, with his injury history and limited performance, should be doable. Or S&T him for something.
- Draft 2 guys with defined NBA skills. I'm an Illini homer to be sure, but I think Terrance Shannon Jr has the makings of a good pro, kind of Ayo but with better skills coming out of college. I also like Coleman Hawkins as an NBA big who can shoot, defend the perimeter and has some handle/passing skills. But happy with anyone of those ilk.
- Turn team over to Coby/Ayo.
- Get Zach to buy into playing off ball a a spot-up shooter/slasher with the goal being to rehab image and trade him midseason (I assume you can't trade him for much in the offseason).
- Demar is the big Q. I love the person, and as a player, as much as he's a ball stopper and has a retro game, he's also fairly clutch and seems good for development of kids. If he can continue to work on the 3 and step back to Coby/Ayo, I would consider resigning him short term - IF you can trade Vuc and Zach.

The biggest problem really isn't the roster as it is now. It's the guys doing the drafting/trading to try and remake that roster. Even the worst roster is just a couple years at most from a potential retool. And the Bulls have some useful pieces. But when you're fairly confident that any draft picks will be useless for at least 1-2 years (if they ever get useful), and that any trades will be steals (for the other team), there isn't really much hope. Which is why I might actually resign Derozan - at least a team with him, Coby, Ayo is entertaining on a game by game basis. Without him and replacing him with worse players, which is the most likely outcome for this crew, there's still no title hope and concurrently less entertainment value.

[Dan Z]

Look what the Thunder have in the way of future Draft picks. ANd they finished with the second best record in the league this year. They are set up to be a real dynasty. Sam Presti is a savant level executive compared to our hapless duo. Presti could form a competitive second Thunder team with all the high draft picks they have accumulated.
https://okcthunderwire.usatoday.com/lists/updated-okc-thunder-draft-pick-assets-protections-through-2030/

I see lots of quantity but very little quality. Basically a bunch of second rounders and some likely mid to late firsts. They're certainly in a very nice spot, but moreso because of who they already have than some inevitable improvement due to incoming picks. Most of those they'll have to trade or waste just due to roster spots.

True but it still sets them up with our old favorite word: Flexibility. All those improve your ability to make trades and who knows maybe you strike on one of those mid 1sts or 2nds also (you don't need a superstar just a high caliber player).

I thought one of the reasons our last rebuild went so poor was our lack of draft capital. We had our pick and that was it.

Didn't they already hit on one of those picks with Jalen Williams? Or was he an OKC draft pick?

[Chi town]

FWIW they need to do a much better job selling hope. DDR doesn't do that. I would be happier with Knecht and DDR gone.

Me too. I’d be happy with Shannon provided he is cleared of alleged rape.

[nitetrain8603]

You guys keep mentioning DDR and Vuc. I'd be enraged if Patrick Williams is back. Oft injured, never aggressive, decent defender. Only good thing is he is young. There's a reason why he was a bench player in college. No thanks, under any circumstances.

[boozapalooza]

Does anyone have the video...because this doesn't really sound like 40M. It sounds like someone said something that sounded shocking and the shocking part keeps being repeated as the fact and only takeaway. High annual salary=a very big breadth of options....Perhaps as high as 40M-Inherently means probably not.

"A source said the Bulls recently offered DeRozan’s representative a two-year deal at a high annual salary, perhaps as much as $40 million per season"

KC Johnson, long known as the reporter the organization leaks information to, has reported that the organization is offering this deal. It's certainly possible this will prove to be inaccurate later on down the road, but it's hard to imagine anyone more credible than KC reporting news from an organizational source. His errors are generally of omission not of reporting false rumors.

Also, an important follow up to the quote (imo anyway) is:

For now, DeRozan is seeking a longer-term deal, but that merely be part of negotiations.

So DeMar, at least according to the report is arguing for the 3rd year. My guess is the high AAV is to offset the 3rd year and tie his end date to Vuc.

Either way, as I said, I generally agree, I wouldn't make this offer (I gather neither would you), but if you had to make this to keep him are you doing it? I'm letting him walk vs this offer or S&Ting him if I can.

And lets not forget, Demar REJECTED the 2/80 offer. I understand the concept of stars taking the bag and then forcing a trade later on, but why the hell would Demar resign here? He strikes me as a guy who cares about his legacy…15 years without a ring and 300 mil in career earnings…if I’m him I’m taking 2/50 from LA or Philly all day over 2 or even 3 years at any number from Chicago.

[dougthonus]

FWIW, KC Expands on this topic on the Bulls Talk podcast this week.

He basically said he wasn't sure if it was a firm 2/80 or if it was upper 30s with some incentives. DeMar is holding out for 3 years.

[boozapalooza]

Watching these playoffs, its become clear. The perfect move for Vuc is a trade back to the Magic. They need a dependable veteran big man and its clear Wendell is not that guy. They also have a lot of young guys and are in a position to sell off some of their draft capital, unless they really swing for the fences on a superstar trade which I don’t see happening. They like Vuc in Orlando and might be willing to give up something of value for him.

Of course, this is dependent upon AK being willing to eat crow on the original deal and trade Vuc back to his old team.

[kodo]

You guys keep mentioning DDR and Vuc. I'd be enraged if Patrick Williams is back. Oft injured, never aggressive, decent defender. Only good thing is he is young. There's a reason why he was a bench player in college. No thanks, under any circumstances.

I'd keep him on a contract for a 3&D guy, but if it's close to the $27M per year he wants, that would be disappointing.
I think he'd look slightly better as the SF vs PF, but then he'd be an 8 mpg guy on this team.

He's an odd bird because he's a defensive player but with zero hustle. That's just ... strange. It's been a joke, but there is some Tony Snell going on there.

[jnrjr79]

You guys keep mentioning DDR and Vuc. I'd be enraged if Patrick Williams is back. Oft injured, never aggressive, decent defender. Only good thing is he is young. There's a reason why he was a bench player in college. No thanks, under any circumstances.

I'd keep him on a contract for a 3&D guy, but if it's close to the $27M per year he wants, that would be disappointing.
I think he'd look slightly better as the SF vs PF, but then he'd be an 8 mpg guy on this team.

He's an odd bird because he's a defensive player but with zero hustle. That's just ... strange. It's been a joke, but there is some Tony Snell going on there.

IMO, there is zero chance of him getting $27M on the market this year. If he’s set on that, he’s going to have to take the QO and give it another shot next offseason.

[kodo]

Yeah that was before the injury. Would you give him even $20M? I guess we have a whole thread on this.

[nitetrain8603]

You guys keep mentioning DDR and Vuc. I'd be enraged if Patrick Williams is back. Oft injured, never aggressive, decent defender. Only good thing is he is young. There's a reason why he was a bench player in college. No thanks, under any circumstances.

I'd keep him on a contract for a 3&D guy, but if it's close to the $27M per year he wants, that would be disappointing.
I think he'd look slightly better as the SF vs PF, but then he'd be an 8 mpg guy on this team.

He's an odd bird because he's a defensive player but with zero hustle. That's just ... strange. It's been a joke, but there is some Tony Snell going on there.

Cant pay a player i know is not dependable even when he's on the court. No thanks. I rather Torrey Craig who can do what he does for a lot cheaper and is overall more healthy.