Your offseason plans for the Bulls

[coldfish]

What many of us want to do and what the Bulls will actually do are so different that its hard to have a discussion. As such, I would ask everyone to post two scenarios: What you think the Bulls will do and what you would do

What I think the Bulls will do:
- Resign Demar to a big contract
- Resign Pat to an oversized deal
- Trade Lavine for salary relief
- Take some random dude in the draft who no one likes but ends up being "meh"
- Retain Donovan
- Use whatever money is left to get a vet with the MLE

What I think the Bulls should do:
- Let Demar go. S&T him so you get the trade exception.
- Sign Pat to a deal no more than roughly $16m per year. If he gets offers for significantly more than that, sign and trade
- Trade Lavine for the best young players you can get, even if it means taking on salary
- Take some random dude in the draft who no one likes but ends up being "meh"
- Retain Donovan
- Retain Javonte Green
- Use whatever money is left to sign younger free agents who have longer windows
- Trade Vucevic for whatever you can get
- Trade Caruso for the best 1st round picks you can get

[HearshotKDS]

Ultimately I think the Bulls need to move on from a team built around the idea of Zach,Vuc, Demar being the biggest pieces that drive the team. There are several paths to doing that and at this point IDGAF which they take, but if next season is just "2023 but we added Taurean Prince to shore up PF!" i think my apathy starts to turn to aversion. Thats what I think they will actually do, maybe they trade Lavine if he remains as disgruntled as ever although I would guess AKME prefers to keep continuity there as well if their hand isnt forced.

[prolific passer]

Bulls gonna do bulls things like they always do and that can be a anything or nothing at all.

[Hangtime84]

Objective get bigger players and swap vooch role out for a defensive C.

The hub C works if the C can finish in the paint or shoot the 3.

30th in PnR defense ain't it

[DuckIII]

My plans involve dynamite.

[sco]

What many of us want to do and what the Bulls will actually do are so different that its hard to have a discussion. As such, I would ask everyone to post two scenarios: What you think the Bulls will do and what you would do

What I think the Bulls will do:
- Resign Demar to a big contract
- Resign Pat to an oversized deal
- Trade Lavine for salary relief
- Take some random dude in the draft who no one likes but ends up being "meh"
- Retain Donovan
- Use whatever money is left to get a vet with the MLE

What I think the Bulls should do:
- Let Demar go. S&T him so you get the trade exception.
- Sign Pat to a deal no more than roughly $16m per year. If he gets offers for significantly more than that, sign and trade
- Trade Lavine for the best young players you can get, even if it means taking on salary
- Take some random dude in the draft who no one likes but ends up being "meh"
- Retain Donovan
- Retain Javonte Green
- Use whatever money is left to sign younger free agents who have longer windows
- Trade Vucevic for whatever you can get
- Trade Caruso for the best 1st round picks you can get

I totally agree with what they will do.

On what they should do.
I am similar in my thinking; however, I am a firm believer in keeping Zach to rehabilitate his value for at least a half, but probably a full season. On Vuc, I can't believe we get "value" for Vuc, but I wouldn't want to use an "asset" beyond a couple of 2nd round picks to be rid of him. The truth is, he's a bench guy now, but, IMO, a very good bench guy who just happens to be overpaid, but it will be very hard to get rid of his salary, even if we get rid of him. I just want us to find a C this offseason who'd push him to the bench (but that's unlikely). Regarding my last point and also our pick, I'd try to swing a deal for either Robinson or Hartenstein using our pick and filler (maybe Vuc).

[Stratmaster]

The front office and coach have mismanaged this to where they don't have a single starting spot nailed down with a true high-quality starter.

Lavine and Derozan were the only 2. I guess if Derozan wants to play out his career as the only good player (relatively speaking to quality NBA starters) on the team, then it hurts nothing at this point to re-sign him.

I think the Bulls will take the PR approach of having a great coach and pump up Coby like they have been to make him seem like the face of the franchise. Kind of like they did when they got Lavine. They will acquire the best big they can find to add to Vuc, Drum and Pwill, touting that PWill was emerging before his injury.

What I would do? First get a new head coach. Whatever excuses you want to make, he has been coach for 4 seasons. The team is regressing under him, and there isn't a single thing you can point to where he has positively affected anyone or anything. Yet there are many questionable things where a case could be made he has hurt the team.

My backcourt would be Lavine and Ball (assuming Ball looks playable) with Coby and Ayo off the bench. You at least have personnel that can competently cover 3 of the positions on the floor (with Javonte added to the mix) for 48 minutes. While Ayo and Coby aren't guys I want starting, they are very good insurance against missed games from Lavine or Ball.

You sign and trade Demar for the best big you can get. You trade Caruso for the same. You trade Vuc for whatever you can get. You start Green at the 3 and hopefully fill the 4 and 5 spots via the trades. Drum and Williams back up the 4/5 acquisitions.

That's all I got.

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

[SHO'NUFF]

The Bulls situation is so **** I don’t even know where they begin in regards to direction. Coby is a potentially 3rd best player on a championship team type of talent. Thankfully he’s on a reasonable contract. I just don’t care for a single player on this team. From GM to Coach to Players…. they can all kick rocks.

[jnrjr79]

What many of us want to do and what the Bulls will actually do are so different that its hard to have a discussion. As such, I would ask everyone to post two scenarios: What you think the Bulls will do and what you would do

What I think the Bulls will do:
- Resign Demar to a big contract
- Resign Pat to an oversized deal
- Trade Lavine for salary relief
- Take some random dude in the draft who no one likes but ends up being "meh"
- Retain Donovan
- Use whatever money is left to get a vet with the MLE

I agree with the vast majority of your post, so I’ll just note a couple things where I disagree. I *think* the Bulls won’t give Pat a huge deal and that he may well play on the QO.

What I think the Bulls should do:
- Let Demar go. S&T him so you get the trade exception.
- Sign Pat to a deal no more than roughly $16m per year. If he gets offers for significantly more than that, sign and trade
- Trade Lavine for the best young players you can get, even if it means taking on salary
- Take some random dude in the draft who no one likes but ends up being "meh"
- Retain Donovan
- Retain Javonte Green
- Use whatever money is left to sign younger free agents who have longer windows
- Trade Vucevic for whatever you can get
- Trade Caruso for the best 1st round picks you can get

My suspicion is that Vooch has a negative asset value and therefore can’t be traded unless you’re willing to take on a longer deal a team is looking to shed. And I could be willing to do that, but I don’t think you’re getting any meaningful draft capital for him. I think the best you could hope for is something like Portland wanting to get off Jerami Grant’s deal or something like that (which I’d do in the scenario of accepting the Bulls won’t blow it up).

[jc23]

What I think the Bulls should do:
- Let Demar go. S&T him so you get the trade exception.
- Sign Pat to a deal no more than roughly $16m per year. If he gets offers for significantly more than that, sign and trade
- Trade Lavine for the best young players you can get, even if it means taking on salary
- Take some random dude in the draft who no one likes but ends up being "meh"
- Retain Donovan
- Retain Javonte Green
- Use whatever money is left to sign younger free agents who have longer windows
- Trade Vucevic for whatever you can get
- Trade Caruso for the best 1st round picks you can get

All of that should be enough to keep our 2025 pick.

[coldfish]

What many of us want to do and what the Bulls will actually do are so different that its hard to have a discussion. As such, I would ask everyone to post two scenarios: What you think the Bulls will do and what you would do

What I think the Bulls will do:
- Resign Demar to a big contract
- Resign Pat to an oversized deal
- Trade Lavine for salary relief
- Take some random dude in the draft who no one likes but ends up being "meh"
- Retain Donovan
- Use whatever money is left to get a vet with the MLE

I agree with the vast majority of your post, so I’ll just note a couple things where I disagree. I *think* the Bulls won’t give Pat a huge deal and that he may well play on the QO.

What I think the Bulls should do:
- Let Demar go. S&T him so you get the trade exception.
- Sign Pat to a deal no more than roughly $16m per year. If he gets offers for significantly more than that, sign and trade
- Trade Lavine for the best young players you can get, even if it means taking on salary
- Take some random dude in the draft who no one likes but ends up being "meh"
- Retain Donovan
- Retain Javonte Green
- Use whatever money is left to sign younger free agents who have longer windows
- Trade Vucevic for whatever you can get
- Trade Caruso for the best 1st round picks you can get

My suspicion is that Vooch has a negative asset value and therefore can’t be traded unless you’re willing to take on a longer deal a team is looking to shed. And I could be willing to do that, but I don’t think you’re getting any meaningful draft capital for him. I think the best you could hope for is something like Portland wanting to get off Jerami Grant’s deal or something like that (which I’d do in the scenario of accepting the Bulls won’t blow it up).

I struggle with Vucevic. He is basically a filler guy. I would happily trade him for pure capspace but as you note, I don't think that's happening. If faced with taking on horrible contracts for him, I guess I would keep him.

IMO one of the big issues with Vucevic is BD. He gives him waaaaaaay too long of a leash and the offense needs to change to get him away from the 3p line.

[coldfish]

What I think the Bulls should do:
- Let Demar go. S&T him so you get the trade exception.
- Sign Pat to a deal no more than roughly $16m per year. If he gets offers for significantly more than that, sign and trade
- Trade Lavine for the best young players you can get, even if it means taking on salary
- Take some random dude in the draft who no one likes but ends up being "meh"
- Retain Donovan
- Retain Javonte Green
- Use whatever money is left to sign younger free agents who have longer windows
- Trade Vucevic for whatever you can get
- Trade Caruso for the best 1st round picks you can get

All of that should be enough to keep our 2025 pick.

The Bulls actually have an incentive to have a down year because of that pick. Its protected 1-10, 1-8, 1-8. Chicago should want to be bad next year and then pop up to give SA a poor pick.

IMO, next year should be a clearing year just to reset away from Ball, Lavine, Vucevic and Derozan.

[jnrjr79]

What many of us want to do and what the Bulls will actually do are so different that its hard to have a discussion. As such, I would ask everyone to post two scenarios: What you think the Bulls will do and what you would do

What I think the Bulls will do:
- Resign Demar to a big contract
- Resign Pat to an oversized deal
- Trade Lavine for salary relief
- Take some random dude in the draft who no one likes but ends up being "meh"
- Retain Donovan
- Use whatever money is left to get a vet with the MLE

I agree with the vast majority of your post, so I’ll just note a couple things where I disagree. I *think* the Bulls won’t give Pat a huge deal and that he may well play on the QO.

What I think the Bulls should do:
- Let Demar go. S&T him so you get the trade exception.
- Sign Pat to a deal no more than roughly $16m per year. If he gets offers for significantly more than that, sign and trade
- Trade Lavine for the best young players you can get, even if it means taking on salary
- Take some random dude in the draft who no one likes but ends up being "meh"
- Retain Donovan
- Retain Javonte Green
- Use whatever money is left to sign younger free agents who have longer windows
- Trade Vucevic for whatever you can get
- Trade Caruso for the best 1st round picks you can get

My suspicion is that Vooch has a negative asset value and therefore can’t be traded unless you’re willing to take on a longer deal a team is looking to shed. And I could be willing to do that, but I don’t think you’re getting any meaningful draft capital for him. I think the best you could hope for is something like Portland wanting to get off Jerami Grant’s deal or something like that (which I’d do in the scenario of accepting the Bulls won’t blow it up).

I struggle with Vucevic. He is basically a filler guy. I would happily trade him for pure capspace but as you note, I don't think that's happening. If faced with taking on horrible contracts for him, I guess I would keep him.

IMO one of the big issues with Vucevic is BD. He gives him waaaaaaay too long of a leash and the offense needs to change to get him away from the 3p line.

100%. Assuming he can’t fix his shot (and he’s really only had a couple of good seasons from 3, IIRC), he’d be more effective by just not bothering. The pick and pop thing is just not gonna work.

To your point, if I could just snap my fingers and disappear him from the roster, I would. I just don’t know what you’d get back in return for him that wouldn’t potentially be worse than just riding it out, though.

[Dan Z]

I agree with the vast majority of your post, so I’ll just note a couple things where I disagree. I *think* the Bulls won’t give Pat a huge deal and that he may well play on the QO.



My suspicion is that Vooch has a negative asset value and therefore can’t be traded unless you’re willing to take on a longer deal a team is looking to shed. And I could be willing to do that, but I don’t think you’re getting any meaningful draft capital for him. I think the best you could hope for is something like Portland wanting to get off Jerami Grant’s deal or something like that (which I’d do in the scenario of accepting the Bulls won’t blow it up).

I struggle with Vucevic. He is basically a filler guy. I would happily trade him for pure capspace but as you note, I don't think that's happening. If faced with taking on horrible contracts for him, I guess I would keep him.

IMO one of the big issues with Vucevic is BD. He gives him waaaaaaay too long of a leash and the offense needs to change to get him away from the 3p line.

100%. Assuming he can’t fix his shot (and he’s really only had a couple of good seasons from 3, IIRC), he’d be more effective by just not bothering. The pick and pop thing is just not gonna work.

To your point, if I could just snap my fingers and disappear him from the roster, I would. I just don’t know what you’d get back in return for him that wouldn’t potentially be worse than just riding it out, though.

If you look at his career three point shooting it's okay one year and then down the next. It's possible that it's better next year, but not enough to feature it.

At this point I'm fine riding out his contract, but if a decent deal is out there AK should do it (although I doubt he will).

[Dan Z]

What I think the Bulls should do:
- Let Demar go. S&T him so you get the trade exception.
- Sign Pat to a deal no more than roughly $16m per year. If he gets offers for significantly more than that, sign and trade
- Trade Lavine for the best young players you can get, even if it means taking on salary
- Take some random dude in the draft who no one likes but ends up being "meh"
- Retain Donovan
- Retain Javonte Green
- Use whatever money is left to sign younger free agents who have longer windows
- Trade Vucevic for whatever you can get
- Trade Caruso for the best 1st round picks you can get

All of that should be enough to keep our 2025 pick.

The Bulls actually have an incentive to have a down year because of that pick. Its protected 1-10, 1-8, 1-8. Chicago should want to be bad next year and then pop up to give SA a poor pick.

IMO, next year should be a clearing year just to reset away from Ball, Lavine, Vucevic and Derozan.

That makes sense, but I have my doubts that AK values picks (based on his track record and what he's said during his time here). If the Bulls run it back, with basically the same roster, and the 2025 pick goes to SA then that will continue to delay the inevitable.

[jnrjr79]

All of that should be enough to keep our 2025 pick.

The Bulls actually have an incentive to have a down year because of that pick. Its protected 1-10, 1-8, 1-8. Chicago should want to be bad next year and then pop up to give SA a poor pick.

IMO, next year should be a clearing year just to reset away from Ball, Lavine, Vucevic and Derozan.

That makes sense, but I have my doubts that AK values picks (based on his track record and what he's said during his time here). If the Bulls run it back, with basically the same roster, and the 2025 pick goes to SA then that will continue to delay the inevitable.

It’s actually top 10 protected in 2025, then top 8 the following two seasons, so all the more reason to try to keep it, since you’d basically only need a few more losses than you had this year to secure it.

But I agree, there’s no indication AK is inclined to do it.

[Dan Z]

The Bulls actually have an incentive to have a down year because of that pick. Its protected 1-10, 1-8, 1-8. Chicago should want to be bad next year and then pop up to give SA a poor pick.

IMO, next year should be a clearing year just to reset away from Ball, Lavine, Vucevic and Derozan.

That makes sense, but I have my doubts that AK values picks (based on his track record and what he's said during his time here). If the Bulls run it back, with basically the same roster, and the 2025 pick goes to SA then that will continue to delay the inevitable.

It’s actually top 10 protected in 2025, then top 8 the following two seasons, so all the more reason to try to keep it, since you’d basically only need a few more losses than you had this year to secure it.

But I agree, there’s no indication AK is inclined to do it.

It's possible that AK "fumbles" into keeping the pick (as per your example), but he should try to keep it as one of his season goals (meaning no "fumbling"). Losing next year is okay as long as there's a long term goal (which is something AK doesn't seem to have).

[ChettheJet]

I start with the exit interviews with all the players and see who has honest objective criticism. Brown noses aiming towards the door, some people making demands go on the block, guys who aren't afraid to speak truth to power get a handshake and some consideration.

Billy, Mo Cheeks a couple of the top assistants with AKME, Michael Reinsdorf evaluating who goes up on the big whiteboard in ink and who is dry erase. The next week it's AKME, Michael, Doug Collins and John Paxson and throwing around the names on the board then the pro scouting staff comes in and explains who on the other 29 teams are potentially available and who would have any interest in anybody on the Bulls roster. See which teams with extra picks this year in what is supposedly a thin draft are potential trade partners.

By that time the decision makers can see how screwed they are. Me not knowing any of this thinks:

I figure there isn't much market for Zach so he stays. I'd rather resign Patrick to a good number for us, not what some other team would throw at him. How many times do you see other teams having to use assets to get rid of guys they signed? Other teams can be run by fools, don't let them make a mistake for us.

Not willing to pay Demar, sorry but he's lead this team for 3 years and it's not like there's been any success. Some dibble coach helped Coby, the fact that Williams and Terry both have worked with Demar in California and still defer to him isn't the progress I need to see.

I seem to keep coming back to this:

White Dosunmu pray for Lonzo
Lavine
Drummond Sanogo
Williams a real shooter Bitim
a new PF Craig Phillips

who they can get for DeRozan, Caruso, Vucevic, Carter, who they draft, some FAs. Not important to get picks this year but replace the 2025 pick and more beyond

Being specific is hard not knowing any of the first two paragraphs

I do like the idea of DeRozan signing in Utah and John Collins coming in return. A Jazz fan oposted that Collins isn't that good at getting his own shot, fine by me Coby, Zach, Ayo all can. Being allowed to get the basketball PWill could be. If Collins can spot up for the three, work in the post, move the ball in the offense, then he fits in.

Behind Drummond, Sanogo isn't ready but what about 2 of Isiah Mobley, Isaiah Jackson, Jalen Smith, Precious Achiuwa, Jaxson Hayes, Mo Wagner, Richan Holmes , Moses Brown, Mo Bamba. Young guys who could learn from one of the great rebounders and real pros n the league.

If he's looking legally able to play I'm looking at Miles Bridges, sizewise he and Patrick could almost be PF's but both would be big for SF's.

I don't think they are in such bad shape that they need to blow it up and take 4 years of the top 7 lottery again or awful Ben Simmons type contracts. They have veterans to trade they need to get either picks, young unrealized potential or cap space in return.

[burlydee]

If I'm AK and I've committed to this plan of being competitive -

- I pray to the draft gods to get a top pick and I draft Reed Sheppard.

- I have to trade Zach. There's no rebuilding his value. He's got to go so I can keep Patrick and resign Demar. My goal is a salary dump and/or a young big.

- I also have to get bigger. Cmon, this isn't an under 6'8 league. I need a credible Vuc replacement so he can split time. I need a DEFENSIVE center and power forward.

- I need shooting. The Bulls have guys who can make 3s. They don't have shooters, guys with gravity. When teams are more than comfortable letting all your guys shoot except Coby, that's a problem.

Draft Sheppard. Resign Demar, resign Pat. Bring back Green.

Keepers: Ayo, Coby, Terry, Phillips, Craig (unless you can throw him in a deal)

Probable keepers: Ball, Vuc (who wants him? And you can't bring back him and Drummond)

Release: Drummond (the Bulks can't afford him and they need a better defender backing up Vuc).

Trade: Caruso (only real opportunity to improve this team plus the replacements are on the roster), Carter (bad signing, has no role on this team), Lavine (it's time), Portland pick,

Roster

Coby/Sheppard /Ball
Ayo/Terry
Derozan / Pat
Craig / Green
Vuc

Guys I'd target:

Wendell Carter
John Collins
Kuminga
Dorrey Finney Smith
Bridges
Cam Johnson
Naz Reid
Mitchell Robinson
Siakam
Mobley
Portis
Ayton
Vanderbilt
Rui
Duren
Duncan Robinson
Lauri Markannen

[HomoSapien]

What many of us want to do and what the Bulls will actually do are so different that its hard to have a discussion. As such, I would ask everyone to post two scenarios: What you think the Bulls will do and what you would do

What I think the Bulls will do:
- Resign Demar to a big contract
- Resign Pat to an oversized deal
- Trade Lavine for salary relief
- Take some random dude in the draft who no one likes but ends up being "meh"
- Retain Donovan
- Use whatever money is left to get a vet with the MLE

What I think the Bulls should do:
- Let Demar go. S&T him so you get the trade exception.
- Sign Pat to a deal no more than roughly $16m per year. If he gets offers for significantly more than that, sign and trade
- Trade Lavine for the best young players you can get, even if it means taking on salary
- Take some random dude in the draft who no one likes but ends up being "meh"
- Retain Donovan
- Retain Javonte Green
- Use whatever money is left to sign younger free agents who have longer windows
- Trade Vucevic for whatever you can get
- Trade Caruso for the best 1st round picks you can get

I don’t understand this. You WANT them to draft someone random who is meh?