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Potential Zach Trade Partners? Playoff Edition.

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Re: Potential Zach Trade Partners? Playoff Edition. 

Post#61 » by jnrjr79 » Wed Apr 24, 2024 9:36 pm

League Circles wrote:
jnrjr79 wrote:
League Circles wrote:You're probably right, but I don't really care what Zach or AK want. If there isn't a trade to improve us we shouldn't do it. Now that improvement can either be now or in the future, but I wouldn't dump Zach just to formalize a divorce.


If by "improve the team" you mean "well maybe improve the team but primarily get out of the luxury tax," then I think that's what we are pretty likely to see. AK says he's not going into the tax unless the Bulls are in the top 4, that he wants to extend DeRozan, and that he wants to keep PWill. There just aren't a lot of ways to do all that without a Zach trade involving significant salary relief, so my guess would be that'll be objective #1, and getting actual useful assets will be viewed as a bonus.

That's just a guess. Maybe they surprise us and trade DeMar or let him walk. Maybe some team would take Vooch in a pure salary dump. But my guess is they're first going to try to get salary relief via Zach, since both sides seem to want the same thing.


Just curious cause I didn't watch, do you or anyone recall exactly the phrasing when he said top 4 seed for luxury tax? I'd like to think (and have always thought since the Paxson era) that that is based on being projected top 4, not already proven. Just cause that's how things work. For example say you had two great young players finishing their 3rd year, but nothing else to speak of, and you were like a 6 or 7 seed, but you have double max cap space. And you sign two max free agents. You do that knowing full well that when those two young guys get their max in a year and you have 4 max guys plus role players, you're going to be a tax team, but you do it cause you're a projected top 4.

Now, the projection of US being top 4 next year under any likely set of moves is low we'd all agree, but that doesn't mean AK won't try to convince Reinsdorf that it can happen if we make trades X and Y and re-sign Demar, Patrick and Drummond for what it takes.

I in fact basically hope we do pay the tax, though I'd like to see that with flexibility, so basically large very short term deals. Would love to see 1+1 (team option) deals for all 3 of Demar, Patrick and Drummond. Though frankly I'd try to sign Drummond to like a 4 year deal worth like 16-18 mil total if possible. Locks up a starting caliber talent at C (and you usually want two at all times) for 4 years.


It sounded to me very much like “if we make the top 4, then I can ask Jerry to go into the luxury tax.” I’m sure there’d be some wiggle room for some extreme outlier case like “Giannis is trying to force his way to Chicago,” but the gist seemed to be that the Bulls had to prove it first.
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Re: Potential Zach Trade Partners? Playoff Edition. 

Post#62 » by Rose2Boozer » Thu Apr 25, 2024 3:48 am

If I had to guess it would be Lavine to the Pistons. The Piston have the nineteen million expiring of Fournier and Grimes for a little over four million. This type of deal gives AKME some wiggle room going forward.
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Re: Potential Zach Trade Partners? Playoff Edition. 

Post#63 » by sco » Thu Apr 25, 2024 2:35 pm

Rose2Boozer wrote:If I had to guess it would be Lavine to the Pistons. The Piston have the nineteen million expiring of Fournier and Grimes for a little over four million. This type of deal gives AKME some wiggle room going forward.

Not disagreeing that the Pistons are the sort of AK deal I could see, but I don't think it actually does give him enough wiggle room to do anything real. That said, I was a big fan of Grimes in NY, but I'd need to see us get something for either Coby or Ayo in that case because there are 3 other positions beyond the 2 guard spots.
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Re: Potential Zach Trade Partners? Playoff Edition. 

Post#64 » by Rose2Boozer » Thu Apr 25, 2024 6:02 pm

sco wrote:
Rose2Boozer wrote:If I had to guess it would be Lavine to the Pistons. The Piston have the nineteen million expiring of Fournier and Grimes for a little over four million. This type of deal gives AKME some wiggle room going forward.

Not disagreeing that the Pistons are the sort of AK deal I could see, but I don't think it actually does give him enough wiggle room to do anything real. That said, I was a big fan of Grimes in NY, but I'd need to see us get something for either Coby or Ayo in that case because there are 3 other positions beyond the 2 guard spots.


Fournier and Grimes gives AKME just under twenty million dollars of wiggle room. That's a pretty darn aggressive start, not even factoring in Ball's future with the team.

How about finally cashing out on Caruso?
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Re: Potential Zach Trade Partners? Playoff Edition. 

Post#65 » by sco » Thu Apr 25, 2024 6:07 pm

Rose2Boozer wrote:
sco wrote:
Rose2Boozer wrote:If I had to guess it would be Lavine to the Pistons. The Piston have the nineteen million expiring of Fournier and Grimes for a little over four million. This type of deal gives AKME some wiggle room going forward.

Not disagreeing that the Pistons are the sort of AK deal I could see, but I don't think it actually does give him enough wiggle room to do anything real. That said, I was a big fan of Grimes in NY, but I'd need to see us get something for either Coby or Ayo in that case because there are 3 other positions beyond the 2 guard spots.


Fournier and Grimes gives AKME just under twenty million dollars of wiggle room. That's a pretty darn aggressive start, not even factoring in Ball's future with the team.

How about finally cashing out on Caruso?

Sorry for being lazy, but I assume you're saying $20M under the tax, not the cap?
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Re: Potential Zach Trade Partners? Playoff Edition. 

Post#66 » by Rose2Boozer » Thu Apr 25, 2024 6:49 pm

sco wrote:
Rose2Boozer wrote:
sco wrote:Not disagreeing that the Pistons are the sort of AK deal I could see, but I don't think it actually does give him enough wiggle room to do anything real. That said, I was a big fan of Grimes in NY, but I'd need to see us get something for either Coby or Ayo in that case because there are 3 other positions beyond the 2 guard spots.


Fournier and Grimes gives AKME just under twenty million dollars of wiggle room. That's a pretty darn aggressive start, not even factoring in Ball's future with the team.

How about finally cashing out on Caruso?

Sorry for being lazy, but I assume you're saying $20M under the tax, not the cap?


Saving on Lavine's contract next season, and even more if you factor in the remaining years of his deal.
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Re: Potential Zach Trade Partners? Playoff Edition. 

Post#67 » by sco » Thu Apr 25, 2024 6:55 pm

Rose2Boozer wrote:
sco wrote:
Rose2Boozer wrote:
Fournier and Grimes gives AKME just under twenty million dollars of wiggle room. That's a pretty darn aggressive start, not even factoring in Ball's future with the team.

How about finally cashing out on Caruso?

Sorry for being lazy, but I assume you're saying $20M under the tax, not the cap?


Saving on Lavine's contract next season, and even more if you factor in the remaining years of his deal.

Ah thanks. I can't see that $ being used to improve the team next season because of where we stand vis-a-vis the cap. And look,
I'm pro-rebuild, but AK has said he isn't. That said, if somehow we save $20M on Zach, don't resign Demar, use Caruso to shed Vuc and don't take back much in salary there and are successful in getting Ball to medically retire, THEN we might be able to do something, but of course, we'd be sorta silly to as we'd be tanking to keep our pick.
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Re: Potential Zach Trade Partners? Playoff Edition. 

Post#68 » by Michael Jackson » Thu Apr 25, 2024 7:42 pm

sco wrote:
Rose2Boozer wrote:
sco wrote:Sorry for being lazy, but I assume you're saying $20M under the tax, not the cap?


Saving on Lavine's contract next season, and even more if you factor in the remaining years of his deal.

Ah thanks. I can't see that $ being used to improve the team next season because of where we stand vis-a-vis the cap. And look,
I'm pro-rebuild, but AK has said he isn't. That said, if somehow we save $20M on Zach, don't resign Demar, use Caruso to shed Vuc and don't take back much in salary there and are successful in getting Ball to medically retire, THEN we might be able to do something, but of course, we'd be sorta silly to as we'd be tanking to keep our pick.



https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39854744/nba-free-agents-team-team-lists-2024-2025

I don't really see any players that change fortunes that will be available.... but in that 20 mil range there are some names. I would love to get Valaciuns and ship Vuc anywhere but unlikely. Can't see why he would want to come here. HArtenstien... Yes please but oncce again the same thing.
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Re: Potential Zach Trade Partners? Playoff Edition. 

Post#69 » by Dan Z » Thu Apr 25, 2024 7:43 pm

sco wrote:
Rose2Boozer wrote:
sco wrote:Sorry for being lazy, but I assume you're saying $20M under the tax, not the cap?


Saving on Lavine's contract next season, and even more if you factor in the remaining years of his deal.

Ah thanks. I can't see that $ being used to improve the team next season because of where we stand vis-a-vis the cap. And look,
I'm pro-rebuild, but AK has said he isn't. That said, if somehow we save $20M on Zach, don't resign Demar, use Caruso to shed Vuc and don't take back much in salary there and are successful in getting Ball to medically retire, THEN we might be able to do something, but of course, we'd be sorta silly to as we'd be tanking to keep our pick.


I could see the Zach move happening, but beyond that don't think AK will do the rest (because he's talked about how he doesn't want to rebuild).

If they're able to shed salary it won't be enough to offer a contract to a big name so I could see AK adding more mid-level vets (like he did with Carter/Craig). It's not something that would really move the needle or put the team in a new direction (unfortunately).
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Re: Potential Zach Trade Partners? Playoff Edition. 

Post#70 » by Dan Z » Thu Apr 25, 2024 7:49 pm

Michael Jackson wrote:
sco wrote:
Rose2Boozer wrote:
Saving on Lavine's contract next season, and even more if you factor in the remaining years of his deal.

Ah thanks. I can't see that $ being used to improve the team next season because of where we stand vis-a-vis the cap. And look,
I'm pro-rebuild, but AK has said he isn't. That said, if somehow we save $20M on Zach, don't resign Demar, use Caruso to shed Vuc and don't take back much in salary there and are successful in getting Ball to medically retire, THEN we might be able to do something, but of course, we'd be sorta silly to as we'd be tanking to keep our pick.



https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39854744/nba-free-agents-team-team-lists-2024-2025

I don't really see any players that change fortunes that will be available.... but in that 20 mil range there are some names. I would love to get Valaciuns and ship Vuc anywhere but unlikely. Can't see why he would want to come here. HArtenstien... Yes please but oncce again the same thing.


The Bulls should've signed Hartenstein a few years ago when the Knicks got him for cheap. That way they'd have room to negotiate with Vucevic when his contract was up (because Hartenstein could step in to start). But that would've meant paying the luxury tax so there was no chance of it happening.

That list of free agents is underwhelming. Maybe Jalen Smith if he's not expensive?
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Re: Potential Zach Trade Partners? Playoff Edition. 

Post#71 » by Muzbar » Thu Apr 25, 2024 9:44 pm

Dan Z wrote:
Michael Jackson wrote:
sco wrote:Ah thanks. I can't see that $ being used to improve the team next season because of where we stand vis-a-vis the cap. And look,
I'm pro-rebuild, but AK has said he isn't. That said, if somehow we save $20M on Zach, don't resign Demar, use Caruso to shed Vuc and don't take back much in salary there and are successful in getting Ball to medically retire, THEN we might be able to do something, but of course, we'd be sorta silly to as we'd be tanking to keep our pick.



https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39854744/nba-free-agents-team-team-lists-2024-2025

I don't really see any players that change fortunes that will be available.... but in that 20 mil range there are some names. I would love to get Valaciuns and ship Vuc anywhere but unlikely. Can't see why he would want to come here. HArtenstien... Yes please but oncce again the same thing.


The Bulls should've signed Hartenstein a few years ago when the Knicks got him for cheap. That way they'd have room to negotiate with Vucevic when his contract was up (because Hartenstein could step in to start). But that would've meant paying the luxury tax so there was no chance of it happening.

That list of free agents is underwhelming. Maybe Jalen Smith if he's not expensive?

I'm definitely down for Jalen Smith, but I don't think the Bulls could afford him, maybe a S&T?
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Re: Potential Zach Trade Partners? Playoff Edition. 

Post#72 » by Dan Z » Thu Apr 25, 2024 10:36 pm

Muzbar wrote:
Dan Z wrote:
Michael Jackson wrote:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39854744/nba-free-agents-team-team-lists-2024-2025

I don't really see any players that change fortunes that will be available.... but in that 20 mil range there are some names. I would love to get Valaciuns and ship Vuc anywhere but unlikely. Can't see why he would want to come here. HArtenstien... Yes please but oncce again the same thing.


The Bulls should've signed Hartenstein a few years ago when the Knicks got him for cheap. That way they'd have room to negotiate with Vucevic when his contract was up (because Hartenstein could step in to start). But that would've meant paying the luxury tax so there was no chance of it happening.

That list of free agents is underwhelming. Maybe Jalen Smith if he's not expensive?

I'm definitely down for Jalen Smith, but I don't think the Bulls could afford him, maybe a S&T?


The issue is..for who? I'm not sure if the Bulls have any assets that Indiana would want (that the Bulls could reasonably trade).

If the scenario above happens (saving money in a Zach trade) then maybe they could offer him a deal, but I have my doubts that AK will do that.
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Re: Potential Zach Trade Partners? Playoff Edition. 

Post#73 » by Muzbar » Fri Apr 26, 2024 12:10 am

Dan Z wrote:
Muzbar wrote:
Dan Z wrote:
The Bulls should've signed Hartenstein a few years ago when the Knicks got him for cheap. That way they'd have room to negotiate with Vucevic when his contract was up (because Hartenstein could step in to start). But that would've meant paying the luxury tax so there was no chance of it happening.

That list of free agents is underwhelming. Maybe Jalen Smith if he's not expensive?

I'm definitely down for Jalen Smith, but I don't think the Bulls could afford him, maybe a S&T?


The issue is..for who? I'm not sure if the Bulls have any assets that Indiana would want (that the Bulls could reasonably trade).

If the scenario above happens (saving money in a Zach trade) then maybe they could offer him a deal, but I have my doubts that AK will do that.

I guess in the end it also depends on how much Smith also wants, but maybe Indy likes something like Craig (if he opts in) and Carter and maybe a 2nd? Rather than lose him for nothing to another team.

I highly doubt the Bulls will chase Jalen Smith, but I do like him and think he needs to be given a chance in a bigger role. I think he'd actually fit well next to Vucevic.
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Re: Potential Zach Trade Partners? Playoff Edition. 

Post#74 » by Dan Z » Fri Apr 26, 2024 1:38 am

Muzbar wrote:
Dan Z wrote:
Muzbar wrote:I'm definitely down for Jalen Smith, but I don't think the Bulls could afford him, maybe a S&T?


The issue is..for who? I'm not sure if the Bulls have any assets that Indiana would want (that the Bulls could reasonably trade).

If the scenario above happens (saving money in a Zach trade) then maybe they could offer him a deal, but I have my doubts that AK will do that.

I guess in the end it also depends on how much Smith also wants, but maybe Indy likes something like Craig (if he opts in) and Carter and maybe a 2nd? Rather than lose him for nothing to another team.

I highly doubt the Bulls will chase Jalen Smith, but I do like him and think he needs to be given a chance in a bigger role. I think he'd actually fit well next to Vucevic.


I wanted the Bulls to sign him the last time he was a free agent because I thought he was a young player, with potential, who was limited in how much he could sign for. It would've been a low risk signing. The problem is that it would've meant the Bulls pay the tax, which wasn't going to happen.

Jalen Smith the past two years, instead of PW, at PF would've been an improvement.
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Re: Potential Zach Trade Partners? Playoff Edition. 

Post#75 » by patryk7754 » Fri Apr 26, 2024 3:30 pm

I think the Grizzlies could be an under the radar trade parter. I believe something like Kennard, Clarke, and Williams works financially. I think we could also get two 1st or a 1st and a pick swap for the trade.

This trade could kick start our tank for Flagg or, if the FO decides to run it back (probably), then it fills out our holes fairly well.

Roster if we don't tank

White/Carter (Lonzo)
Damar/Ayo
Caruso/Kennard/PWill
Clarke/P.Will/Zwill
Vucevic/Drummond
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Re: Potential Zach Trade Partners? Playoff Edition. 

Post#76 » by Muzbar » Fri Apr 26, 2024 10:04 pm

patryk7754 wrote:I think the Grizzlies could be an under the radar trade parter. I believe something like Kennard, Clarke, and Williams works financially. I think we could also get two 1st or a 1st and a pick swap for the trade.

This trade could kick start our tank for Flagg or, if the FO decides to run it back (probably), then it fills out our holes fairly well.

Roster if we don't tank

White/Carter (Lonzo)
Damar/Ayo
Caruso/Kennard/PWill
Clarke/P.Will/Zwill
Vucevic/Drummond

Why would the Grizzlies want Zach? They already have Desmond Bane being paid big money at the same position.

Memphis is a bad fit as a trade partner, unless they're part of a 3 team trade with Zach going elsewhere.
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Re: Potential Zach Trade Partners? Playoff Edition. 

Post#77 » by prolific passer » Fri Apr 26, 2024 11:08 pm

Pelicans still in the mix with Zion or Ingram? They have Murphy to take one of their spots.
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Re: Potential Zach Trade Partners? Playoff Edition. 

Post#78 » by HomoSapien » Fri Apr 26, 2024 11:35 pm

I'm curious to see what LeBron does if they're swept. Hard to imagine him wanting to stay, honestly. He's got the I want out of here body language that he gets every three seasons.

If he joins the block, there might be a surprisingly limited trade market for him since:

1. You'd have to find a suitor that feels like they can compete with LeBron.

2. Can take on LeBron's salary.

3. Can take on LeBron's salary while still fielding a contender.

Zach and the 11th pick might not be a bad starting point if that marriage is over.
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Re: Potential Zach Trade Partners? Playoff Edition. 

Post#79 » by Muzbar » Sat Apr 27, 2024 12:11 am

HomoSapien wrote:I'm curious to see what LeBron does if they're swept. Hard to imagine him wanting to stay, honestly. He's got the I want out of here body language that he gets every three seasons.

If he joins the block, there might be a surprisingly limited trade market for him since:

1. You'd have to find a suitor that feels like they can compete with LeBron.

2. Can take on LeBron's salary.

3. Can take on LeBron's salary while still fielding a contender.

Zach and the 11th pick might not be a bad starting point if that marriage is over.

With LeBron being sent to another team in a 3 way trade?
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Re: Potential Zach Trade Partners? Playoff Edition. 

Post#80 » by HomoSapien » Sat Apr 27, 2024 12:31 am

Muzbar wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:I'm curious to see what LeBron does if they're swept. Hard to imagine him wanting to stay, honestly. He's got the I want out of here body language that he gets every three seasons.

If he joins the block, there might be a surprisingly limited trade market for him since:

1. You'd have to find a suitor that feels like they can compete with LeBron.

2. Can take on LeBron's salary.

3. Can take on LeBron's salary while still fielding a contender.

Zach and the 11th pick might not be a bad starting point if that marriage is over.

With LeBron being sent to another team in a 3 way trade?


With him being here. After that press conference, AKME will go into job saving mode and will try to do something that significantly improves us in the short term.
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