Do You Trust Our Bullpen Moving Forward?

[Quake Griffin]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/pitching/split/128

Do our bullpen struggles worry you guys for the postseason?
The guys in our front office did a hell of a job trying to give our pen a make over and fill it up with live arms and it's looking like it wont be enough at this point.

Should I wait and have faith or get used to this being a problem going into the postseason?

[Neddy]

despite of him giving up that HR to tie the game on sunday, I think Jim Johnson will be a huge addition as Kenley's setup man. we have a pretty clear structure as long as Don Maddeningly knows how to use them. hell let Don just park his ass and have Honeycutt run the pen.

anywho,

winning/tied games

9th - Kenley
8th - Jim Johnson
7th - Baez
lefty spot relief - JP
long relief - Nicasio

trailing games

9th - JP ( if close, otherwise Nicasio finishes here )
8th - Nicasio
7th - Joel
spot duty - Luis Avilan

I think Paco was already better than Luis by a hair, and under team control for much longer, but from looking at the big picture, I did strengthen the pen by quite a bit just by DFA guys like Tsao. I expect us to bring Jim back as well next year, and Peralta should consider retiring, leaving his spot to Yimi.

[Ranma]

I agree that the acquisition of Jim Johnson, in particular, should help in providing a viable and solid setup man for Kenley Jansen. However, it would have been perfect had we been able to acquire Jake McGee from Tampa Bay, but at the same time, I agree with the front office's reluctance to overpay for relief arms at the deadline.

I would have liked Yimi Garcia as part of the bullpen, but it seems like he needs just a little more seasoning. Chris Hatcher is a big disappointment and I hope he doesn't get any consideration to be brought up at all for the rest of this season; the kid needs to get over his mental roadblocks that are causing his pitches to be straight throws to the batters. I'm hearing that the Dodgers might manipulate the DL spots of Hatcher and Bronson Arroyo's to possibly bring up a Julio Urias or Jose De Leon in September, which would be fine by me.

I'd also like to take this moment to criticize a bit the organization's handling of our development of relief pitchers. Chris Reed was unquestionably a reach as a first-round selection in 2011, but he was considered a good bet to be fast-tracked as a bullpen arm who could help a team in the short-term. Chris Anderson was another first-rounder who was selected in 2013 thought to be able to help a major league team right out of the bullpen similar to Michael Wacha for the St. Louis Cardinals in the 2013 pennant race.

While Anderson has upside as a possible starter, the majority of projections had him most effective as a reliever instead of a starter, but the Dodgers decided to start his development stretched out as a starter like they do with most of their pitching prospects. Reed's subsequent lack of progress and inability to revert back to a being an effective reliever prompted the organization to give up on him in trading him away for Grant Dayton.

It remains to be seen how Chris Anderson will turn out, but I am concerned with our handling of Josh Sborz, the Dodgers' second-round selection at 74th overall in the 2015 draft. Sborz, like Chris Reed before him, projects to be a fast-mover as an effective reliever who can help a team right away. While I acknowledge that Sborz has more potential than Reed as a possible starter, he seems more like a Darren Dreifort or Eric Gagne as a sure-fire key reliever even if it is unlikely for him to reach the potential of either player.

While I agree, for the most part, in trying to develop starters over relievers when the opportunity presents itself given the higher value proposition, I think there are times where we have to bite the bullet and go for the more certain payout in the short-term reliever rather than gamble on the bigger payoff for a long-term starter.

After wasting Reed and already investing resources into Anderson in addition to Chris Hatcher's stalled progress, I'm willing to continue on course in looking at Anderson as a possible starter, but only with a relatively short leash at this point. Sborz, on the other hand, I feel should be fast-tracked into the bullpen after some brief fine-tuning in the minors.

I already like our collection of starting pitching prospects, but I feel that we need to churn out more sure-fire relievers in addition to go along with Yimi Garcia, particularly since I still advocate drafting more higher upside prep arms in future drafts.

[Neddy]

^yeah but you have to consider what the player wants too. we have no idea what the circumstances were but most young early round draft pick pitchers wants to start and does not want to pitch out of bullpen when they have been aces all their lives, was drafted in the first or second rounds to prove their potential, and only about 18 to 23. Im sure for Reed, as his ages were getting up there for a prospect, was more willing to do whatever the organization wished him to do but unless a guy was picked up later in rounds these young hot shots may have issues with their perceived demotion.

Chris Hatcher has no doubt have been a huge disappointment for all of us, Im sure. injuries to Ryu and McCarthy also have been too. but now remember, the guy I totally forgot in that previous post is with all the starters we added to the rotation, we get to have Carlos Frias back in the pen after his DL stint is over. that is another young and strong arm that will compete for the playoff roster, and since the October only require 4 starters, I can see Yimi and Frias both making it unless we choose to have a starter in the fold just in case sitting out there in the bullpen.

I also like the style of Mike Bolsinger to be considered a longman during September roster expansion. it can give us a rest to our starters and give a chance to shuffle the rotation going into the playoffs but also his pitching style is so opposite of the rest of our starters I think he makes a better change of pace long man than say, Nicasio. I like Nicasio as a middle relief, mostly in the 7th inning or earlier for no more than the inning he started in if we can have better options.

anywho, after major sleep deprivation coming back from Vegas yesterday and the flight being delayed, I wrote the last post in complete slumber. I still don't feel 100% and hope I am making some sort of sense. I will have to come back and read this again after a bit more bed time... adios.

[Ranma]

That's a good point about taking what draftees want into account with regard to their development, but you have to weigh it against the potential versus other draft possibilities. Now Chris Reed is an outlier since I highly suspect he was drafted as cost-savings under the McCourt regime, but I think he would have been fine coming out of the pen, especially since it would have got him to the Majors earlier. He was fairly fortunate to be drafted that early, to be honest.

While I'm not entirely certain if Sborz would rather be a starter, I would think his experience as a really effective reliever in college would have prepared him for the role in the Show, especially if he can help a World Series contender in the immediate term. Dreifort leveraged his impending free agency to force the organization's hand into making him a starting pitcher to earn more money on the market rather than what was really best for him. If a prospect doesn't want to fill the role the organization has in mind for him, then it should consider other prospects available in the draft slot or trade options.

Having said that, I like having Sborz even if I think he was selected a little early, so I'm going to pay attention to how his development turns out.

I like the idea of Bolsinger as the longman in the bullpen. Like you said, Frias is another consideration for the relief corps but more solid options like Jake McGee would have taken the bullpen from slightly questionable to formidable. While you can never tell with untested prospects, newcomers to the pen would also provide mystery to batters who haven't faced them before, which is where a polished prospect like Sborz presents an intriguing possibility.

[Quake Griffin]

What I don't understand is why this FO was not more aggressive at the deadline for bullpen arms?

It seems like they're married to who they picked before the season.
Johnson was a good pick up but we clearly should have added one more guy.

man….just wow.
1-1 game…bags loaded in the 7th and our best answer is Peralta? Nah man. Something's gotta change and this Peralta experiment is over.

[Quake Griffin]

two more things:

1) why not Grant Holmes? I get that he's a top 100 prospect but his ceiling screams back end starter at best. Why can't he come in for relief during these last months and blow people away?

2) I wanna give Hatcher another chance when he gets healthy. His WHIP is high but his SO/9 is the best its been in his career and his SO/BB ratio is on the better end of what he's done in his career. He has a .368 BABIP…he might be kinda lucky but it looks like he can still K players. I wanna give him one more shot.

[Neddy]

two more things:

1) why not Grant Holmes? I get that he's a top 100 prospect but his ceiling screams back end starter at best. Why can't he come in for relief during these last months and blow people away?

2) I wanna give Hatcher another chance when he gets healthy. His WHIP is high but his SO/9 is the best its been in his career and his SO/BB ratio is on the better end of what he's done in his career. He has a .368 BABIP…he might be kinda lucky but it looks like he can still K players. I wanna give him one more shot.

I don't agree that Grant is a back end starter at best. he is still only 19 and if Jose De Leon can come out of nowhere to become what he is now at age 21 (now 22) Grant definitely has a higher ceiling.

Hatcher might had a chance to come back before the trades but now I just don't think we have room for him unless injury bug bites again. he is not going to displace 1) Jensen 2) Jim Johnson 3) JP 4) Frias 5) Nicasio 6) Avilan 7) Baez
the only person he probably could have displaced was Joel Peralta but once Frias is back, there really is no room imo.

[Quake Griffin]

Sorry man.

we gotta get someone through the waiver wire.
this isn't working.

[Quake Griffin]

Still in disbelief that Johnson's numbers were that good in Atlanta and he has been miserable in 4 outings for the Dodgers.


How in the hell do you strike a guy out on 4 pitches and then walk the next guy on 4 pitches?