New CBA Ramifications & Shohei Otani Watch

Quake Griffin · Post #61 » by **Quake Griffin** » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:44 pm

Neddy wrote:
CF55 wrote:
Neddy wrote:
Ryu in 17 was recovering from shoulder injury as well as an elbow injury, LOL come on bro, that is not a balanced evaluation. despite that Maeda was still rocked against LHBs. L/R split shows both McCarthy and Ryu are more balanced than Maeda.

Make what ever excuse for Ryu you need to shoulder injuries don't always have players come back 100 percent. What we saw last season might be all Ryu has left. As for McCarthy he sucks and has since we got him. Wether its mental or not I would much rather have Maeda in the 5th spot of the rotation then McCarthy.

sounds like you wanna get personal.

okay.

Smh.

See the Offseason Thread.
Unbelievable.

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CF55 · Post #62 » by **CF55** » Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:22 pm

Neddy wrote:
CF55 wrote:
Neddy wrote:
Ryu in 17 was recovering from shoulder injury as well as an elbow injury, LOL come on bro, that is not a balanced evaluation. despite that Maeda was still rocked against LHBs. L/R split shows both McCarthy and Ryu are more balanced than Maeda.

Make what ever excuse for Ryu you need to shoulder injuries don't always have players come back 100 percent. What we saw last season might be all Ryu has left. As for McCarthy he sucks and has since we got him. Wether its mental or not I would much rather have Maeda in the 5th spot of the rotation then McCarthy.

sounds like you wanna get personal.

okay.

unsure what is personal by saying your making excuses for Ryu?

Either way I'll just stop posting here people too sensitive

Ranma · Post #63 » by **Ranma** » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:34 am

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Neddy · Post #64 » by **Neddy** » Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:02 am

CF55 wrote:
Neddy wrote:
CF55 wrote:
Make what ever excuse for Ryu you need to shoulder injuries don't always have players come back 100 percent. What we saw last season might be all Ryu has left. As for McCarthy he sucks and has since we got him. Wether its mental or not I would much rather have Maeda in the 5th spot of the rotation then McCarthy.

sounds like you wanna get personal.

okay.

unsure what is personal by saying your making excuses for Ryu?

Either way I'll just stop posting here people too sensitive

Quake Griffin wrote:
Neddy wrote:
CF55 wrote:
Make what ever excuse for Ryu you need to shoulder injuries don't always have players come back 100 percent. What we saw last season might be all Ryu has left. As for McCarthy he sucks and has since we got him. Wether its mental or not I would much rather have Maeda in the 5th spot of the rotation then McCarthy.

sounds like you wanna get personal.

okay.

Smh.

See the Offseason Thread.
Unbelievable.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

I thought I have stated numerous times that my wife's family is related to that particular pitcher we are talking about? my wife's maiden name is Ryu. this is personal. well, sorta. I am pretty sure he doesn't know we even exist. well anywho. that didn't come off very well.

Ranma · Post #65 » by **Ranma** » Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:18 pm

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Ranma · Post #66 » by **Ranma** » Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:27 am

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Ranma · Post #67 » by **Ranma** » Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:17 pm

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Quake Griffin · Post #68 » by **Quake Griffin** » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:53 am

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Ranma · Post #69 » by **Ranma** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:21 pm

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Ranma · Post #70 » by **Ranma** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:26 pm

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wco81 · Post #71 » by **wco81** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:13 pm

Reporting by NY media make it sound like the Yankees are the likely favorites to land Ohtani. They'll have current and former Yankee players from Japan help recruit him.

The other thing is that they make it sound like he won't go to the highest bidder and the most that any team can offer him is $3.5 million.

However, one article I read said that there's nothing preventing a team from giving him a $50 million or whatever extension during his rookie year.

So maybe teams trying to land him could give him informal offers of extension during the courting process?

Local TV show up here said that Giants would love to get him but their chances may be slim. But Bochy has told or will tell Ohtani's team that he's intrigued at Ohtani's capabilities as a hitter and outfielder.

However, scouts are not nearly as bullish on his prospects as hitter and outfielder as they are on his prospects as a pitcher. He could be a great hitter but they think he currently has holes in his swing because of his height -- of course there are great hitters who are as tall or taller but Ohtani is probably not refined as a MLB hitter yet.

So all the teams will probably promise him more ABs than other pitchers but the investment they'd make in him would be as a #1 pitcher, potential Cy Young winner.

Ranma · Post #72 » by **Ranma** » Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:12 am

wco81 wrote:Reporting by NY media make it sound like the Yankees are the likely favorites to land Ohtani. They'll have current and former Yankee players from Japan help recruit him.

The other thing is that they make it sound like he won't go to the highest bidder and the most that any team can offer him is $3.5 million.

However, one article I read said that there's nothing preventing a team from giving him a $50 million or whatever extension during his rookie year.

So maybe teams trying to land him could give him informal offers of extension during the courting process?

The New York media is typically biased, but the Yankees would make sense if Ohtani is sold on being the DH and starting pitcher. They probably are the favorites among the American League teams, but you can't discount the Mariners or Rangers either given their previous ties to Japanese players. Ohtani himself did acknowledge that it may not be best for him to actually play a position in the field, so playing for an AL team certainly makes sense.

However, Ohtani was notably recruited by the Dodgers, Rangers, and Giants previously when he was a Japanese high school player with the Dodgers almost signing him before he decided to return to Japan. Things have changed since then given his prominence as a 2-way player, but I wouldn't be quick to dismiss the things that appealed to him in being a Dodger then still being present now.

The Dodgers have historically been a pioneering organization particularly with breaking the color barrier. Ohtani wants to change the game and the Dodgers have done just that. The front office is considered to be at the forefront of sabermetrics and thinking outside the box. Being on the West Coast puts him closer to his home country of Japan. Los Angeles has a sizable Japanese population, but his popularity would also be boosted from other Asian fans. Endorsement opportunities to make up for his lack of money in his MLB contract is a given here as well.

Shohei has stated that he wants to compete against the best whether it is Bryce Harper or Clayton Kershaw, but he also wants to compete at the highest level, so that should also mean competing for championships, which the Dodgers offer as good an opportunity as any other team.

Our front office is open to finding a way to have him playing as a 2-way player, but he also seems to understand that pitching is his more reliable skill set. He may want to do both in hitting and pitching, but he should be aware of the amount of work to do both,
so rushing in as a full-time hitter and pitcher would be unrealistic in adjusting to a new league with a higher level of competition,
especially with the known adjustments necessary that Japanese pitchers have to make in their routine in order to make the transition to Major League Baseball.

The Dodgers will be open to allowing him to play both ways since we can only offer $300,000 as a signing bonus, but we'll sell him on the practicalities of easing into being a 2-way MLB player with pitching being his highest priority. He's mature beyond his years, so he should be reasonable in understanding that the Dodgers and he both want to put him in the best position to succeed.

With regards to any team offering him a big extension during his rookie year or promising him such a deal beforehand as enticement to sign a deal with a team, MLB has sent strong messages that they will be vigilant in looking at the deal Ohtani will sign after he joins an MLB club. The hammer laid down on the Braves showed that executives would risk permanent banishment for circumventing the international signing restrictions, so that would give GMs pause to aggressively push such an agenda, though I'm not naive to believe that more subtle communication wouldn't be employed. Still, MLB created and passed new legislation that specifically targeted Ohtani both by raising the minimum age before he would no longer be subject to the international signing guidelines but also warning organizations that teams found to have circumvented the restrictions with an extension offer would be subject to having that deal voided as well as other harsh penalties with regard to its future international signing budget. All of this has been posted in detail starting on the very first post of this thread.

Having said all that and also referenced on the first page of this thread, a team could conceivably offer Ohtani an extension during his rookie year as long as it is in line with previous deals given to MLB players at similar points in their respective careers.

Ranma · Post #73 » by **Ranma** » Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:06 pm

I love how the media says things like "the lure of Yankee pinstripes might be irresistible". Excuse me? Ohtani is Japanese and, if I'm not mistaken, the Dodgers are more beloved in Japan than the Yankees. If he's choosing New York, it will be because of the DH rule, but the fact that Shohei and his agent are asking for a detailed plan of how he will be handled and integrated seems to play into the Dodgers' favor under Friedman's front office.

I'm conflicted because I think Ohtani is clearly better as a pitcher and his attempts at doing both hitting and pitching will hurt his development or at least stall it initially. As a team trying to compete for championships, I can see resentment of having one player putting himself above the team. However, Ohtani has shown himself to be a team player and, given his financial sacrifice, I'm open and willing to let him try at least initially, but like I said before, it has to be reasonable by easing him into this experiment.

Shohei will need to adjust to the routine of an MLB pitching regimen as it is, so I'm cool with him taking things slowly to begin his career while also being a part-time position player on maybe a couple of his off-days in-between starts. I've always envisioned Kershaw, Ohtani, and Urias as the front end of the Dodgers' starting rotation but that will have to wait and may not even happen given the question marks pertaining to the respective long-term future of each player. For now, Ohtani will have to start out in the bottom half of the rotation before he can be our eventual co-ace.

p.s. These NY hacks aren't even spelling his surname in his preferred fashion with the "h" included instead of going with "Otani".

wco81 · Post #74 » by **wco81** » Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:24 pm

So is he suppose to go on some grand tour of the teams courting him?

You'd think they'd try to do it before the end of the year so that he could get acclimated to the move to the US before spring training?

If he does the visits in the winter, it might be more advantageous for West Coast teams as he encounters NE weather.

Ranma · Post #75 » by **Ranma** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:31 am

wco81 wrote:So is he suppose to go on some grand tour of the teams courting him?

You'd think they'd try to do it before the end of the year so that he could get acclimated to the move to the US before spring training?

If he does the visits in the winter, it might be more advantageous for West Coast teams as he encounters NE weather.

The recruitment period is only going to last 3 weeks (21 days), which is condensed from the normal 30 days moving forward. It can't move forward until the agreement is ratified by the MLBPA, MLB, and NPB, which is expected to be done by December 1st, but Nippon Professional Baseball supposedly will vote on (and approve) their end of the agreement on Monday. The MLBPA doesn't want posted Japanese players to hinder MLB free agency and the process is supposed to start November 1st, but since an agreement couldn't be reached before now, the whole process has to be delayed and even accelerated once all the T's are crossed and i's dotted.

Given the accelerated process and the urgency on Ohtani's part to settle into his new home in the United States, this would explain his request through his representation for proposals and descriptions from each interested MLB team so that he can do preliminary review and research before narrowing down the list of candidates in order to determine which ones are worth the time to visit and meet face-to-face.

Shohei has waited his whole young adult life to play in the majors, so another month or so is not going to be too much longer to take the necessary time to do his due diligence in finding the right fit in the organization he plans to spend the majority of his remaining professional career with.

The winter meetings will be from December 10th through the 14th when most of the big off-season activity typically takes place. We should have a better idea of who the serious candidates will be by then.

Ranma · Post #76 » by **Ranma** » Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:53 pm

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Ranma · Post #77 » by **Ranma** » Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:54 am

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Grant Brisbee, McCoveyChronicles.com (11/28/17)

I fully expect the Dodgers to trade for Stanton and sign Ohtani. Not just one or the other, but both. They have everything in place to make both of these moves happen — the money, resources, and history — and I’m trying to figure reasons why the Dodgers wouldn’t want to pursue Stanton and why Ohtani would choose another team. Neither decision makes sense to me.

The Giants Have Reasons to Be Hopeful for Giancarlo Stanton and Shohei Ohtani, and That’s the Problem

Neddy · Post #78 » by **Neddy** » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:59 am

even simply just to save his arm and maybe to take advantage of his speed a bit, LF is where Ohtani goes, not RF to platoon with Puig, although on occasion when Puig happens to need a day off while a RHP is coming up and Ohani is ready to hit, of course.

so I was a bit surprised when heard that we picked up Logan's option for 9 mil, thought the management might give Joc one more chance at CF and move Taylor back infield to play 2B full time, but hey not complaining getting back the guy at all. but as good a player as he is, I really thought if the dodger management was honest about getting below the lux tax, Jeez, there is one obvious spot to save some $, the goddamn 2B where we've had around 8 million committed this year between Logan and Chase that produced next to nothing for most of the season, is about to, thanks to Logan's contact alone, increase the value by a million coming 2018. the production we've gotten from there can easily be replaced by Taylor and much more, by moving him back to middle infield.

anywho, what I was getting at, is that we could have saved money and move some pieces around, while still having cheaply hired kids like Toles and Thompsons as they are coming back from injuries and whatnot to re-join already crowded outfield, we can use a healthier competition by freeing up another full time position by moving Taylor back to his natural mid-infield position and not lose any ground on any facet of the game. and this is also important because, it allows Ohtani to play LF while depending on the which handed the opposing starter is, we can rotate between Toles/Joc/Verdugo/Thompson/Puig/**** for the other 2. this is some crazy OF rotation of names alone...

Ranma · Post #79 » by **Ranma** » Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:38 am

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Ranma · Post #80 » by **Ranma** » Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:40 pm

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