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[JujitsuFlip]

Man, watching Banchero hit a step back 3... Like all these versatile big men out there and somehow the Cavs drew the one who has been slow to adapt any kind of offensive game.

Yes, ik he finished 2nd in DPOY last season but when you already have a strong rim protector in Allen, it just leaves a lot to be desired on the other side.

[JonFromVA]

Man, watching Banchero hit a step back 3... Like all these versatile big men out there and somehow the Cavs drew the one who has been slow to adapt any kind of offensive game.

Yes, ik he finished 2nd in DPOY last season but when you already have a strong rim protector in Allen, it just leaves a lot to be desired on the other side.

Banchero had the opportunity to fire up (and miss) a whole lot of 3pters as a rookie, whereas Mobley isn't wired to do things in game that he feels still needs work.

Now that Banchero is shooting 38% from 3pt, you might imagine the Magic are thriving with him on the floor, but they're currently -1.7 when he's on the floor, and 12.3 better when he's off the floor .vs. on.

Their primary lineups are doing well, so maybe it's something they can shore up by improving their depth; but that doesn't change the fact that Orlando is playing like a sub-.500 team when Paulo is on the floor, and like a 65 win team when he's off.

His 55.3 TS% is 11th on the Magic, so there's a case to be made that they'd be better off with someone who only dunked, rebounded, and played defense; but he's their franchise player so they'll wait and expect things to improve.

[JujitsuFlip]

https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2023/10/20/23925056/new-york-knicks-waive-nathan-knight-sign-two-former-cavs

Diakite and Brandon Goodwin to the Knicks. On top of Windler, they're really doubling down on the ex-Cavs.

I'll be surprised if any of those guys make the final roster for the Knicks.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/12/knicks-waive-dylan-windler-will-sign-taj-gibson.html#google_vignette

It was short lived for Mr. Windler, got his spot stolen by a 38 year old. Which honestly, I'd rather have Taj than Rubio because at least he will report to the team.

Maybe Windler can join Goodwin and Diakite in West Chester lol

https://www.si.com/nba/2024/01/07/lakers-sign-dylan-windler-g-league-day-record-33-rebound-game-knicks

The Windler saga continues!

"The signing of Windler comes one day after he scored 23 points and grabbed a G League record 33 rebounds for the Westchester Knicks".

[JonFromVA]

I'll be surprised if any of those guys make the final roster for the Knicks.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/12/knicks-waive-dylan-windler-will-sign-taj-gibson.html#google_vignette

It was short lived for Mr. Windler, got his spot stolen by a 38 year old. Which honestly, I'd rather have Taj than Rubio because at least he will report to the team.

Maybe Windler can join Goodwin and Diakite in West Chester lol

https://www.si.com/nba/2024/01/07/lakers-sign-dylan-windler-g-league-day-record-33-rebound-game-knicks

The Windler saga continues!

"The signing of Windler comes one day after he scored 23 points and grabbed a G League record 33 rebounds for the Westchester Knicks".

Hopefully the Lakers situation is awful enough he gets another shot and can stay healthy to show what he can actually do after all those injuries he's suffered.

[JujitsuFlip]

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/12/knicks-waive-dylan-windler-will-sign-taj-gibson.html#google_vignette

It was short lived for Mr. Windler, got his spot stolen by a 38 year old. Which honestly, I'd rather have Taj than Rubio because at least he will report to the team.

Maybe Windler can join Goodwin and Diakite in West Chester lol

https://www.si.com/nba/2024/01/07/lakers-sign-dylan-windler-g-league-day-record-33-rebound-game-knicks

The Windler saga continues!

"The signing of Windler comes one day after he scored 23 points and grabbed a G League record 33 rebounds for the Westchester Knicks".

Hopefully the Lakers situation is awful enough he gets another shot and can stay healthy to show what he can actually do after all those injuries he's suffered.

It's Windler, so i doubt it.

What a waste of a 1st rounder him and KPJ were.

I can rarely recall where having 3+ first rounders in the same draft works out.

Rockets did it twice, at least this time around they ended up with Sengun. Half of em from that draft aren't even on the Rockets anymore though, lol

[JonFromVA]

https://www.si.com/nba/2024/01/07/lakers-sign-dylan-windler-g-league-day-record-33-rebound-game-knicks

The Windler saga continues!

"The signing of Windler comes one day after he scored 23 points and grabbed a G League record 33 rebounds for the Westchester Knicks".

Hopefully the Lakers situation is awful enough he gets another shot and can stay healthy to show what he can actually do after all those injuries he's suffered.

It's Windler, so i doubt it.

What a waste of a 1st rounder him and KPJ were.

I can rarely recall where having 3+ first rounders in the same draft works out.

Rockets did it twice, at least this time around they ended up with Sengun. Half of em from that draft aren't even on the Rockets anymore though, lol

I'm not sure how a team can control injuries and it's the injuries which seemed to drain Windler's confidence and some of the + athleticism he was supposed to bring.

KPJ was a much clearer gamble, but the talent was certainly there. At best we can question how ready the staff was to baby sit and help a player like that when he's not with the team and whether they could have built up his value higher and cashed out before he imploded.

If you play the game of who do we get if we had just drafted the guy right after our pick, we end up with Jarrett Culver, Kabengele, and Nic Claxton ... so, there's that.

If I had Dan's money, I probably would have spent a big chunk of it hiring away most of the Spurs front office and scouting staff, but even they have their share of duds.

[JujitsuFlip]

Hopefully the Lakers situation is awful enough he gets another shot and can stay healthy to show what he can actually do after all those injuries he's suffered.

It's Windler, so i doubt it.

What a waste of a 1st rounder him and KPJ were.

I can rarely recall where having 3+ first rounders in the same draft works out.

Rockets did it twice, at least this time around they ended up with Sengun. Half of em from that draft aren't even on the Rockets anymore though, lol

I'm not sure how a team can control injuries and it's the injuries which seemed to drain Windler's confidence and some of the + athleticism he was supposed to bring.

KPJ was a much clearer gamble, but the talent was certainly there. At best we can question how ready the staff was to baby sit and help a player like that when he's not with the team and whether they could have built up his value higher and cashed out before he imploded.

If you play the game of who do we get if we had just drafted the guy right after our pick, we end up with Jarrett Culver, Kabengele, and Nic Claxton ... so, there's that.

If I had Dan's money, I probably would have spent a big chunk of it hiring away most of the Spurs front office and scouting staff, but even they have their share of duds.

Well, I'm not saying get rid of Garland. Beilein didn't trust Sexton and was gonna get his own lead guard.

Also, you don't just have to take the guy right after your pick.

Cavs easily coulda ended up with Keldon Johnson and Claxton or Poole and Claxton or even Johnson and Poole or Claxton and just never trade for #30.

It is quite funny how the Cavs have rostered 5 guys from the 1st round of that draft and 2 of the 2nd rounders ended up on the Charge.

[JonFromVA]

It's Windler, so i doubt it.

What a waste of a 1st rounder him and KPJ were.

I can rarely recall where having 3+ first rounders in the same draft works out.

Rockets did it twice, at least this time around they ended up with Sengun. Half of em from that draft aren't even on the Rockets anymore though, lol

I'm not sure how a team can control injuries and it's the injuries which seemed to drain Windler's confidence and some of the + athleticism he was supposed to bring.

KPJ was a much clearer gamble, but the talent was certainly there. At best we can question how ready the staff was to baby sit and help a player like that when he's not with the team and whether they could have built up his value higher and cashed out before he imploded.

If you play the game of who do we get if we had just drafted the guy right after our pick, we end up with Jarrett Culver, Kabengele, and Nic Claxton ... so, there's that.

If I had Dan's money, I probably would have spent a big chunk of it hiring away most of the Spurs front office and scouting staff, but even they have their share of duds.

Well, I'm not saying get rid of Garland. Beilein didn't trust Sexton and was gonna get his own lead guard.

Also, you don't just have to take the guy right after your pick.

Cavs easily coulda ended up with Keldon Johnson and Claxton or Poole and Claxton or even Johnson and Poole or Claxton and just never trade for #30.

It is quite funny how the Cavs have rostered 5 guys from the 1st round of that draft and 2 of the 2nd rounders ended up on the Charge.

The point of looking at who was drafted immediately after your own pick eliminates a lot of the bias that would otherwise seep in.

There are other approaches we could take, like for instance comparing to someone who ranks prospects like nbadraft (they do mocks as well, but mocks aren't the same as talent ranks).

Here's their rankings for 2019:

https://www.nbadraft.net/ranking/bigboard/?year-ranking=2019

So, they would have had us drafting Coby White (4th ranked), Keldon Johnson (9th ranked), and Bruno Fernando (10th ranked).

Meh.

It would be interesting to see the draft boards from all the nba teams, but for obvious reasons that kind of data rarely leaks.

The Cavs were supposedly interested in Keldon Johnson, Koby may have just thought too much about it. Perhaps he wanted a more experienced guy at 26 knowing he'd get back in to the draft at 30 and take a younger guy.

[JujitsuFlip]

I'm not sure how a team can control injuries and it's the injuries which seemed to drain Windler's confidence and some of the + athleticism he was supposed to bring.

KPJ was a much clearer gamble, but the talent was certainly there. At best we can question how ready the staff was to baby sit and help a player like that when he's not with the team and whether they could have built up his value higher and cashed out before he imploded.

If you play the game of who do we get if we had just drafted the guy right after our pick, we end up with Jarrett Culver, Kabengele, and Nic Claxton ... so, there's that.

If I had Dan's money, I probably would have spent a big chunk of it hiring away most of the Spurs front office and scouting staff, but even they have their share of duds.

Well, I'm not saying get rid of Garland. Beilein didn't trust Sexton and was gonna get his own lead guard.

Also, you don't just have to take the guy right after your pick.

Cavs easily coulda ended up with Keldon Johnson and Claxton or Poole and Claxton or even Johnson and Poole or Claxton and just never trade for #30.

It is quite funny how the Cavs have rostered 5 guys from the 1st round of that draft and 2 of the 2nd rounders ended up on the Charge.

The point of looking at who was drafted immediately after your own pick eliminates a lot of the bias that would otherwise seep in.

There are other approaches we could take, like for instance comparing to someone who ranks prospects like nbadraft (they do mocks as well, but mocks aren't the same as talent ranks).

Here's their rankings for 2019:

https://www.nbadraft.net/ranking/bigboard/?year-ranking=2019

So, they would have had us drafting Coby White (4th ranked), Keldon Johnson (9th ranked), and Bruno Fernando (10th ranked).

Meh.

It would be interesting to see the draft boards from all the nba teams, but for obvious reasons that kind of data rarely leaks.

The Cavs were supposedly interested in Keldon Johnson, Koby may have just thought too much about it. Perhaps he wanted a more experienced guy at 26 knowing he'd get back in to the draft at 30 and take a younger guy.

I think Beilein influenced pick #26 a lot. I think he envisioned Windler playing the Ignas Brazdeikis role, from his Michigan system.

[JonFromVA]

Well, I'm not saying get rid of Garland. Beilein didn't trust Sexton and was gonna get his own lead guard.

Also, you don't just have to take the guy right after your pick.

Cavs easily coulda ended up with Keldon Johnson and Claxton or Poole and Claxton or even Johnson and Poole or Claxton and just never trade for #30.

It is quite funny how the Cavs have rostered 5 guys from the 1st round of that draft and 2 of the 2nd rounders ended up on the Charge.

The point of looking at who was drafted immediately after your own pick eliminates a lot of the bias that would otherwise seep in.

There are other approaches we could take, like for instance comparing to someone who ranks prospects like nbadraft (they do mocks as well, but mocks aren't the same as talent ranks).

Here's their rankings for 2019:

https://www.nbadraft.net/ranking/bigboard/?year-ranking=2019

So, they would have had us drafting Coby White (4th ranked), Keldon Johnson (9th ranked), and Bruno Fernando (10th ranked).

Meh.

It would be interesting to see the draft boards from all the nba teams, but for obvious reasons that kind of data rarely leaks.

The Cavs were supposedly interested in Keldon Johnson, Koby may have just thought too much about it. Perhaps he wanted a more experienced guy at 26 knowing he'd get back in to the draft at 30 and take a younger guy.

I think Beilein influenced pick #26 a lot. I think he envisioned Windler playing the Ignas Brazdeikis role, from his Michigan system.

That makes a lot of sense, including Koby figuring he might still be able to snag a young player with upside.

As for Sexton, it was clear early on he wasn't wired to be a lead guard.

[JujitsuFlip]

The point of looking at who was drafted immediately after your own pick eliminates a lot of the bias that would otherwise seep in.

There are other approaches we could take, like for instance comparing to someone who ranks prospects like nbadraft (they do mocks as well, but mocks aren't the same as talent ranks).

Here's their rankings for 2019:

https://www.nbadraft.net/ranking/bigboard/?year-ranking=2019

So, they would have had us drafting Coby White (4th ranked), Keldon Johnson (9th ranked), and Bruno Fernando (10th ranked).

Meh.

It would be interesting to see the draft boards from all the nba teams, but for obvious reasons that kind of data rarely leaks.

The Cavs were supposedly interested in Keldon Johnson, Koby may have just thought too much about it. Perhaps he wanted a more experienced guy at 26 knowing he'd get back in to the draft at 30 and take a younger guy.

I think Beilein influenced pick #26 a lot. I think he envisioned Windler playing the Ignas Brazdeikis role, from his Michigan system.

That makes a lot of sense, including Koby figuring he might still be able to snag a young player with upside.

As for Sexton, it was clear early on he wasn't wired to be a lead guard.

Shoulda just tried to get the actual guy but from 47 to 26 woulda been a reach.

I liked Sexton next to LeBron if he didn't go to the Lakers, didn't like Sexton who i recall playing literally 3 on 5 in a college game next to a bunch of veterans who just went to the Finals, if LBJ was gone.

I am glad the Cavs didn't give up #8 to try and win now in 2018 but again, given hindsight there may have been better guys to draft in that slot.

[JonFromVA]

I think Beilein influenced pick #26 a lot. I think he envisioned Windler playing the Ignas Brazdeikis role, from his Michigan system.

That makes a lot of sense, including Koby figuring he might still be able to snag a young player with upside.

As for Sexton, it was clear early on he wasn't wired to be a lead guard.

Shoulda just tried to get the actual guy but from 47 to 26 woulda been a reach.

I liked Sexton next to LeBron if he didn't go to the Lakers, didn't like Sexton who i recall playing literally 3 on 5 in a college game next to a bunch of veterans who just went to the Finals, if LBJ was gone.

I am glad the Cavs didn't give up #8 to try and win now in 2018 but again, given hindsight there may have been better guys to draft in that slot.

I just assumed at the time they were going to jump on Michael Porter Jr who wasn't expected to be there at 8, but he just kept on sliding.

Ideally LeBron would have just played just a little harder the first game we played Brooklyn the previous season because if we'd swept them that season we might have been picking 3 and drafting Luka.

[JujitsuFlip]

That makes a lot of sense, including Koby figuring he might still be able to snag a young player with upside.

As for Sexton, it was clear early on he wasn't wired to be a lead guard.

Shoulda just tried to get the actual guy but from 47 to 26 woulda been a reach.

I liked Sexton next to LeBron if he didn't go to the Lakers, didn't like Sexton who i recall playing literally 3 on 5 in a college game next to a bunch of veterans who just went to the Finals, if LBJ was gone.

I am glad the Cavs didn't give up #8 to try and win now in 2018 but again, given hindsight there may have been better guys to draft in that slot.

I just assumed at the time they were going to jump on Michael Porter Jr who wasn't expected to be there at 8, but he just kept on sliding.

Ideally LeBron would have just played just a little harder the first game we played Brooklyn the previous season because if we'd swept them that season we might have been picking 3 and drafting Luka.

Doubt this front office woulda selected Luka lol

[jbk1234]

https://www.si.com/nba/2024/01/07/lakers-sign-dylan-windler-g-league-day-record-33-rebound-game-knicks

The Windler saga continues!

"The signing of Windler comes one day after he scored 23 points and grabbed a G League record 33 rebounds for the Westchester Knicks".

Hopefully the Lakers situation is awful enough he gets another shot and can stay healthy to show what he can actually do after all those injuries he's suffered.

It's Windler, so i doubt it.

What a waste of a 1st rounder him and KPJ were.

I can rarely recall where having 3+ first rounders in the same draft works out.

Rockets did it twice, at least this time around they ended up with Sengun. Half of em from that draft aren't even on the Rockets anymore though, lol

One of the reasons you want multiple 1sts when you're rebuilding, particularly that late, is that statistically speaking, one or more of them won't pan out.

[JonFromVA]

Shoulda just tried to get the actual guy but from 47 to 26 woulda been a reach.

I liked Sexton next to LeBron if he didn't go to the Lakers, didn't like Sexton who i recall playing literally 3 on 5 in a college game next to a bunch of veterans who just went to the Finals, if LBJ was gone.

I am glad the Cavs didn't give up #8 to try and win now in 2018 but again, given hindsight there may have been better guys to draft in that slot.

I just assumed at the time they were going to jump on Michael Porter Jr who wasn't expected to be there at 8, but he just kept on sliding.

Ideally LeBron would have just played just a little harder the first game we played Brooklyn the previous season because if we'd swept them that season we might have been picking 3 and drafting Luka.

Doubt this front office woulda selected Luka lol

Fedor reported on this and I've heard the same independently.

“Prior to last year’s draft I had numerous conversations with members of Cleveland’s front office about Doncic. A few of them even approached me because they saw my tweets praising Doncic, including some incredible video clips, which sparked up some fun chatter.

“The Cavs really liked Doncic. General manager Koby Altman flew overseas and watched him in person numerous times. According to league sources, Doncic was one of the top players on the Cavs’ draft board. Sources told cleveland.com that the Cavaliers wanted to trade up for the Euroleague star and were willing to move into the top 5.”

“Had the Hawks made a deal with the Cavs, they would have been forced to go all the way down to No. 8 overall — a spot that put them in serious danger of missing out on Young. Don’t forget, the PG-needy Orlando Magic were sitting at No. 6 if the [Dallas] Mavericks didn’t take Young to keep him with the fifth pick. That’s why, according to sources, a deal between Cleveland and Atlanta wasn’t realistic and was never on the table.”

[JonFromVA]

Hopefully the Lakers situation is awful enough he gets another shot and can stay healthy to show what he can actually do after all those injuries he's suffered.

It's Windler, so i doubt it.

What a waste of a 1st rounder him and KPJ were.

I can rarely recall where having 3+ first rounders in the same draft works out.

Rockets did it twice, at least this time around they ended up with Sengun. Half of em from that draft aren't even on the Rockets anymore though, lol

One of the reasons you want multiple 1sts when you're rebuilding, particularly that late, is that statistically speaking, one or more of them won't pan out.

Now consider that teams can have those three 2-way slots and they can eliminate all the contract risk of first round picks and roll the dice on second rounders, undrafted players, and first round busts who will accept being sent to the g-league where they can get development minutes rather than rotting on a the pro bench.

It really could change how GM's approach late first round picks. As excited as we're all going to be that the guy we take at #20 (whatever) might turn out to be a star or an almost ready to go role player ... the smart move might be to trade that pick for multiple seconds.

The league has been stuck on 30 teams for quite a while even though the talent pool has been growing. Just have to take in to account future expansion plans.

[JujitsuFlip]

I just assumed at the time they were going to jump on Michael Porter Jr who wasn't expected to be there at 8, but he just kept on sliding.

Ideally LeBron would have just played just a little harder the first game we played Brooklyn the previous season because if we'd swept them that season we might have been picking 3 and drafting Luka.

Doubt this front office woulda selected Luka lol

Fedor reported on this and I've heard the same independently.

“Prior to last year’s draft I had numerous conversations with members of Cleveland’s front office about Doncic. A few of them even approached me because they saw my tweets praising Doncic, including some incredible video clips, which sparked up some fun chatter.

“The Cavs really liked Doncic. General manager Koby Altman flew overseas and watched him in person numerous times. According to league sources, Doncic was one of the top players on the Cavs’ draft board. Sources told cleveland.com that the Cavaliers wanted to trade up for the Euroleague star and were willing to move into the top 5.”

“Had the Hawks made a deal with the Cavs, they would have been forced to go all the way down to No. 8 overall — a spot that put them in serious danger of missing out on Young. Don’t forget, the PG-needy Orlando Magic were sitting at No. 6 if the [Dallas] Mavericks didn’t take Young to keep him with the fifth pick. That’s why, according to sources, a deal between Cleveland and Atlanta wasn’t realistic and was never on the table.”

I do recall hearing/reading that now that you mention it.

[JujitsuFlip]

Hopefully the Lakers situation is awful enough he gets another shot and can stay healthy to show what he can actually do after all those injuries he's suffered.

It's Windler, so i doubt it.

What a waste of a 1st rounder him and KPJ were.

I can rarely recall where having 3+ first rounders in the same draft works out.

Rockets did it twice, at least this time around they ended up with Sengun. Half of em from that draft aren't even on the Rockets anymore though, lol

One of the reasons you want multiple 1sts when you're rebuilding, particularly that late, is that statistically speaking, one or more of them won't pan out.

Or all of em lol

The Blazers were too far back so i can't comment on their 4 first rounders in one draft.

But in 2012 the Rockets drafted #12 Jeremy Lamb, #16 Royce White, and #18 Terrance Jones. White never played in the NBA, Joned had 2 stints on the Rox but neither worth mentioning, and Lamb only played in the preseason for the Rox but then was traded.

In 2021 for the Rockets Garuba and Josh Christopher are both already off the team. Still lots of questions on what Green becomes. Of the 4, Sengun looks like a steal.

I also got to thinking about the 2009 Wolves. They drafted Rubio #5 who didn't come over for 2 seasons then tore his ACL as a rookie, drafted Flynn #6 he only played 2 seasons for the Wolves and 4 total NBA seasons, drafted Lawson #18 and immediately traded him for essentially what became Martell Webster who did nothing for them, and drafted Ellington #28 who played 3 seasons for the Wolves and had a long NBA career but was nothing more than a journeyman.

The fact the Wolves had 4 first rounders in that draft and toom 3 PGs and 4 guards total yet missed on Steph Curry is bonkers. None of the 4 are in the NBA anymore and Steph has 4 rings and 6 finals apperances, wow.

[JonFromVA]

It's Windler, so i doubt it.

What a waste of a 1st rounder him and KPJ were.

I can rarely recall where having 3+ first rounders in the same draft works out.

Rockets did it twice, at least this time around they ended up with Sengun. Half of em from that draft aren't even on the Rockets anymore though, lol

One of the reasons you want multiple 1sts when you're rebuilding, particularly that late, is that statistically speaking, one or more of them won't pan out.

Or all of em lol

The Blazers were too far back so i can't comment on their 4 first rounders in one draft.

But in 2012 the Rockets drafted #12 Jeremy Lamb, #16 Royce White, and #18 Terrance Jones. White never played in the NBA, Joned had 2 stints on the Rox but neither worth mentioning, and Lamb only played in the preseason for the Rox but then was traded.

In 2021 for the Rockets Garuba and Josh Christopher are both already off the team. Still lots of questions on what Green becomes. Of the 4, Sengun looks like a steal.

I also got to thinking about the 2009 Wolves. They drafted Rubio #5 who didn't come over for 2 seasons then tore his ACL as a rookie, drafted Flynn #6 he only played 2 seasons for the Wolves and 4 total NBA seasons, drafted Lawson #18 and immediately traded him for essentially what became Martell Webster who did nothing for them, and drafted Ellington #28 who played 3 seasons for the Wolves and had a long NBA career but was nothing more than a journeyman.

The fact the Wolves had 4 first rounders in that draft and toom 3 PGs and 4 guards total yet missed on Steph Curry is bonkers. None of the 4 are in the NBA anymore and Steph has 4 rings and 6 finals apperances, wow.

How many NBA GM's are qualified to evaluate players let alone a scout they want to hire?

David Kahn (who ran that Timberwolves draft) primary basketball experience was on the business side of another team.

Guys like Altman who are promoted from within will understand the organizational approach and may have opportunities along the way to demonstrate their judgement, but that's not a lot to go on.

The funny thing is that for a professional sport with so much data analytics, there's nothing public facing at least to score the people involved in deciding who's going to be drafted, who's going to be on the team. If we had this data we'd have a much better idea exactly how random the draft is or just how clueless certain people are at this very fundamental skill.

[JujitsuFlip]

One of the reasons you want multiple 1sts when you're rebuilding, particularly that late, is that statistically speaking, one or more of them won't pan out.

Or all of em lol

The Blazers were too far back so i can't comment on their 4 first rounders in one draft.

But in 2012 the Rockets drafted #12 Jeremy Lamb, #16 Royce White, and #18 Terrance Jones. White never played in the NBA, Joned had 2 stints on the Rox but neither worth mentioning, and Lamb only played in the preseason for the Rox but then was traded.

In 2021 for the Rockets Garuba and Josh Christopher are both already off the team. Still lots of questions on what Green becomes. Of the 4, Sengun looks like a steal.

I also got to thinking about the 2009 Wolves. They drafted Rubio #5 who didn't come over for 2 seasons then tore his ACL as a rookie, drafted Flynn #6 he only played 2 seasons for the Wolves and 4 total NBA seasons, drafted Lawson #18 and immediately traded him for essentially what became Martell Webster who did nothing for them, and drafted Ellington #28 who played 3 seasons for the Wolves and had a long NBA career but was nothing more than a journeyman.

The fact the Wolves had 4 first rounders in that draft and toom 3 PGs and 4 guards total yet missed on Steph Curry is bonkers. None of the 4 are in the NBA anymore and Steph has 4 rings and 6 finals apperances, wow.

How many NBA GM's are qualified to evaluate players let alone a scout they want to hire?

David Kahn (who ran that Timberwolves draft) primary basketball experience was on the business side of another team.

Guys like Altman who are promoted from within will understand the organizational approach and may have opportunities along the way to demonstrate their judgement, but that's not a lot to go on.

The funny thing is that for a professional sport with so much data analytics, there's nothing public facing at least to score the people involved in deciding who's going to be drafted, who's going to be on the team. If we had this data we'd have a much better idea exactly how random the draft is or just how clueless certain people are at this very fundamental skill.

You're not wrong just how unfortunate is that to have 4 chances to hit on a generational talent, specifically 2 right before said player was taken and to miss that hard.