Trade Ideas

[JujitsuFlip]

I want to be clear about what I'm critiquing, I don't believe LeVert over dribbling, driving into a crowded paint, and taking questionable shots every other possession, is better than Garland running the offense. He's still playing as though he should be the primary ball handler when Mitchell sits. He shouldn't be.

This isn't about a ball and player movement offense versus Garland finding the weak spots in the defense (the Cavs would be very foolish to just jettison the latter). LeVert isn't keeping the ball moving.

I don't watch games so hard for me to speak to it BUT i know LeVert's game well enough to know what you're describing. I agree, i would much rather have the ball in Garland's hands than LeVert going iso throwing up contested shots.

That is one downfall of Jb allowing everyone to just play their game, LeVert's game is naturally that. On the 2022 Cavs it's why they acquired him, on the 2023 Cavs it was tolerated bc the Cavs had no one else to play off the bench. With the 2024 Cavs and Jb finally discovering 10 guys he trusts, it is not a trait that is needed any longer and as you alluded to it could actually be to the detriment of the team.

Diversity in attack is good, it makes things much harder on the opposing coach. The last thing we want to do is go back to the days we passed the ball around the perimeter until DG or Don tried to create something. We've finally unlocked the team and it's for the best.

A big game is going to come down to something the other coach wants, like Okoro having to make a big shot, or LeVert finishing a drive. We need to prepare them and then trust them in the moment.

I don't think LeVert impersonating Sexton makes the offense more diverse, i think coaches would gladly allow him to play 1 on 5 but that is just my 2 cents.

[ijspeelman]

LeVert is the closest thing we have to an average NBA basketball player and is thus useful as a connective tissue and redundancy to so many guys. He'll be a perimeter catch-and-shooter if you need him to be, he can be the initiator and drive/kick guy, he can guard a bunch of spots pretty well.

But he's not THE guy you want to do any of those things primarily. He's an understudy, and occasionally thinks he can be the star.

I put him in a category with Niang where I think we're better without them but for political/cultural reasons they still have their seats at the table.

Just due to utility, I think LeVert is above average and worth keeping around (unless a specific niche can be filled). Obvi agree with his tendency to think he's the star, but I think that is somehow a pro for him as well as a con lol. Teams occasionally guard and collapse on him like he's one too which can create open looks.

Niang feels like a direct Love replacement to me (besides the outlet passes). His shooting woes have hurt his value, but if he can return to above 40% three point shooting I think he's another guy worth keeping around based on just play alone. I'm more iffy on him tho due to his defense.

[jbk1234]

LeVert is the closest thing we have to an average NBA basketball player and is thus useful as a connective tissue and redundancy to so many guys. He'll be a perimeter catch-and-shooter if you need him to be, he can be the initiator and drive/kick guy, he can guard a bunch of spots pretty well.

But he's not THE guy you want to do any of those things primarily. He's an understudy, and occasionally thinks he can be the star.

I put him in a category with Niang where I think we're better without them but for political/cultural reasons they still have their seats at the table.

Niang is the closest thing we have to an enforcer, and now that TT is suspended, the only player on the roster who will make the officials ask themselves just how chippy they want play to get. He also makes half as much as LeVert. He's not irreplaceable, but he's not bad value on his deal.

[JonFromVA]

I don't watch games so hard for me to speak to it BUT i know LeVert's game well enough to know what you're describing. I agree, i would much rather have the ball in Garland's hands than LeVert going iso throwing up contested shots.

That is one downfall of Jb allowing everyone to just play their game, LeVert's game is naturally that. On the 2022 Cavs it's why they acquired him, on the 2023 Cavs it was tolerated bc the Cavs had no one else to play off the bench. With the 2024 Cavs and Jb finally discovering 10 guys he trusts, it is not a trait that is needed any longer and as you alluded to it could actually be to the detriment of the team.

Diversity in attack is good, it makes things much harder on the opposing coach. The last thing we want to do is go back to the days we passed the ball around the perimeter until DG or Don tried to create something. We've finally unlocked the team and it's for the best.

A big game is going to come down to something the other coach wants, like Okoro having to make a big shot, or LeVert finishing a drive. We need to prepare them and then trust them in the moment.

Again, I suspect we're just seeing different things. Diversity of attack is good. Taking what the other team is giving is good. You're third best shot creator forcing the issue at the expense of one of your two best offensive players, is not. LeVert isn't driving into wide open lanes. He's not exploiting the weakest defender on the floor. He is, as you put it, doing his thing regardless.

Garland needs to be able to operate within the offense that was installed when he was injured, and exploit the opposing defense when they leave an opening defending the new offense. That takes time and reps. He's already deferring to Mitchell. He shouldn't get shut out of multiple (bad) possessions in that second unit as well.

Garland is still trying to get his legs back under him and rebuild his strength. The only thing he needs to do, is not get hurt and he's going to be a whole lot more than fine.

[JonFromVA]

I don't watch games so hard for me to speak to it BUT i know LeVert's game well enough to know what you're describing. I agree, i would much rather have the ball in Garland's hands than LeVert going iso throwing up contested shots.

That is one downfall of Jb allowing everyone to just play their game, LeVert's game is naturally that. On the 2022 Cavs it's why they acquired him, on the 2023 Cavs it was tolerated bc the Cavs had no one else to play off the bench. With the 2024 Cavs and Jb finally discovering 10 guys he trusts, it is not a trait that is needed any longer and as you alluded to it could actually be to the detriment of the team.

Diversity in attack is good, it makes things much harder on the opposing coach. The last thing we want to do is go back to the days we passed the ball around the perimeter until DG or Don tried to create something. We've finally unlocked the team and it's for the best.

A big game is going to come down to something the other coach wants, like Okoro having to make a big shot, or LeVert finishing a drive. We need to prepare them and then trust them in the moment.

I don't think LeVert impersonating Sexton makes the offense more diverse, i think coaches would gladly allow him to play 1 on 5 but that is just my 2 cents.

LeVert doesn't play 1 on 5. Like I mentioned he has a 3:1 A/TO ratio and he's basically 4th behind CPJ, Garland and Mitchell in other assist categories. He doesn't just put his head down and speed towards the basket like Collin, he's very aware of the players around him and especially the bigs.

Tim Hardway Jr, Malik Monk, and Norman Powell are currently the top 3 betting favorites for 6th man of the year apparently. I'd suggest you guys take a look how those guys did against the Cavs recently and how Caris played .vs. their teams.

When you've got a 29 year old vet in his prime who could start on a lot of teams at 3 different positions coming off your bench, it's a pretty big advantage. Even more so in that we don't have to turn to the second unit over to him completely like how some 6th men are used.

I just think some of you guys are too used to hating on certain players, and need to start coming around to how well everyone is playing together right now.

[toooskies]

Diversity in attack is good, it makes things much harder on the opposing coach. The last thing we want to do is go back to the days we passed the ball around the perimeter until DG or Don tried to create something. We've finally unlocked the team and it's for the best.

A big game is going to come down to something the other coach wants, like Okoro having to make a big shot, or LeVert finishing a drive. We need to prepare them and then trust them in the moment.

I don't think LeVert impersonating Sexton makes the offense more diverse, i think coaches would gladly allow him to play 1 on 5 but that is just my 2 cents.

LeVert doesn't play 1 on 5. Like I mentioned he has a 3:1 A/TO ratio and he's basically 4th behind CPJ, Garland and Mitchell in other assist categories. He doesn't just put his head down and speed towards the basket like Collin, he's very aware of the players around him and especially the bigs.

Tim Hardway Jr, Malik Monk, and Norman Powell are currently the top 3 betting favorites for 6th man of the year apparently. I'd suggest you guys take a look how those guys did against the Cavs recently and how Caris played .vs. their teams.

When you've got a 29 year old vet in his prime who could start on a lot of teams at 3 different positions coming off your bench, it's a pretty big advantage. Even more so in that we don't have to turn to the second unit over to him completely like how some 6th men are used.

I just think some of you guys are too used to hating on certain players, and need to start coming around to how well everyone is playing together right now.

I'm not hating as much as I'm clear on who I'd have losing minutes as rotation minutes get harder to come by. Those choices need to be made as Evan and Darius ramp up.

[JonFromVA]

I don't think LeVert impersonating Sexton makes the offense more diverse, i think coaches would gladly allow him to play 1 on 5 but that is just my 2 cents.

LeVert doesn't play 1 on 5. Like I mentioned he has a 3:1 A/TO ratio and he's basically 4th behind CPJ, Garland and Mitchell in other assist categories. He doesn't just put his head down and speed towards the basket like Collin, he's very aware of the players around him and especially the bigs.

Tim Hardway Jr, Malik Monk, and Norman Powell are currently the top 3 betting favorites for 6th man of the year apparently. I'd suggest you guys take a look how those guys did against the Cavs recently and how Caris played .vs. their teams.

When you've got a 29 year old vet in his prime who could start on a lot of teams at 3 different positions coming off your bench, it's a pretty big advantage. Even more so in that we don't have to turn to the second unit over to him completely like how some 6th men are used.

I just think some of you guys are too used to hating on certain players, and need to start coming around to how well everyone is playing together right now.

I'm not hating as much as I'm clear on who I'd have losing minutes as rotation minutes get harder to come by. Those choices need to be made as Evan and Darius ramp up.

JBB needs to actually coach and use his bench strategically. I will be disappointed if the expanded roster is just a tool so he can get away with overplaying his starters in the playoffs.

[jbk1234]

I'm begging everyone to go back to page 1 and read our hot takes.

[Skybox]

Probably premature, but...

Great game last night...Mobley looks awesome. Honestly, if Allen is an 8 and Mobley is an 8, but together they're only a 14, CLE might move Allen...his value is probably at an all-time high, but his best performances were when Mobley was out. They're both really good, but I'd bet on Mobley long-term if I'm choosing...I think they're a bit more redundant than initially hoped but there's a lot worse problems to have. I'd love Allen for ORL, but our best trade assets are frps, cap relief, and WCJ (if it's a Center). Actually, WCJ could probably play next to Mobley as a better fit than Allen. Allen is a much more valuable player, but WCJ can shoot 3's, and has enough bulk to balance Mobley in some matchups, but still can switch on D, finish PnR, and pass pretty well. Certainly not suggesting a straight swap, but depending on your Mitchell situation, your summer could get spicy and WCJ and a few firsts might come in handy in some multi-team swaps. Just saying, you guys have so much talent, but the best of it is somewhat redundant and not really as complimentary as it could ideally be. ..probably not news to you.



I won't wish you luck on Sunday

[ijspeelman]

I won't wish you luck on Sunday

You won't need to

Probably premature, but...

Great game last night...Mobley looks awesome. Honestly, if Allen is an 8 and Mobley is an 8, but together they're only a 14, CLE might move Allen...his value is probably at an all-time high, but his best performances were when Mobley was out. They're both really good, but I'd bet on Mobley long-term if I'm choosing...I think they're a bit more redundant than initially hoped but there's a lot worse problems to have. I'd love Allen for ORL, but our best trade assets are frps, cap relief, and WCJ (if it's a Center). Actually, WCJ could probably play next to Mobley as a better fit than Allen. Allen is a much more valuable player, but WCJ can shoot 3's, and has enough bulk to balance Mobley in some matchups, but still can switch on D, finish PnR, and pass pretty well. Certainly not suggesting a straight swap, but depending on your Mitchell situation, your summer could get spicy and WCJ and a few firsts might come in handy in some multi-team swaps. Just saying, you guys have so much talent, but the best of it is somewhat redundant and not really as complimentary as it could ideally be. ..probably not news to you.

Unless the Cavs can go farther than expected this playoffs, I am fairly sure they are going to depart from one of Mobley or Allen. I have to assume Allen is the odd one out just based on the contract situation.

Though, its an odd situation bc Mobley and Allen are equally important on defense and compliment each other on that end. Obviously, the actual negative redundancy is on offense where their ability space the floor is non-existent. Mobley shot 37% this year from downtown, but on only 2 attempts per 100 possessions. Obviously the Magic are also not taking his 37% shooting very seriously based on how they are guarding him.

If Mobley could truly shoot this % on higher volume then its less redundant, but that feels far away if it were to actually happen.

Carter Jr. this year shot 3x as many threes per 100 poss on same %. However, I fear that he's swung on the positive end this year as his FT% stayed the same. So he's probably more likely a 33-35% shooter (which is still valuable).

If a trade between Carter Jr and Allen would happen, it would most likely require some extra juice even with a few picks.

Also, don't really see why the Magic would want this as their problem is offense and not defense.

[Skybox]

I won't wish you luck on Sunday

You won't need to

Probably premature, but...

Great game last night...Mobley looks awesome. Honestly, if Allen is an 8 and Mobley is an 8, but together they're only a 14, CLE might move Allen...his value is probably at an all-time high, but his best performances were when Mobley was out. They're both really good, but I'd bet on Mobley long-term if I'm choosing...I think they're a bit more redundant than initially hoped but there's a lot worse problems to have. I'd love Allen for ORL, but our best trade assets are frps, cap relief, and WCJ (if it's a Center). Actually, WCJ could probably play next to Mobley as a better fit than Allen. Allen is a much more valuable player, but WCJ can shoot 3's, and has enough bulk to balance Mobley in some matchups, but still can switch on D, finish PnR, and pass pretty well. Certainly not suggesting a straight swap, but depending on your Mitchell situation, your summer could get spicy and WCJ and a few firsts might come in handy in some multi-team swaps. Just saying, you guys have so much talent, but the best of it is somewhat redundant and not really as complimentary as it could ideally be. ..probably not news to you.

Unless the Cavs can go farther than expected this playoffs, I am fairly sure they are going to depart from one of Mobley or Allen. I have to assume Allen is the odd one out just based on the contract situation.

Though, its an odd situation bc Mobley and Allen are equally important on defense and compliment each other on that end. Obviously, the actual negative redundancy is on offense where their ability space the floor is non-existent. Mobley shot 37% this year from downtown, but on only 2 attempts per 100 possessions. Obviously the Magic are also not taking his 37% shooting very seriously based on how they are guarding him.

If Mobley could truly shoot this % on higher volume then its less redundant, but that feels far away if it were to actually happen.

Carter Jr. this year shot 3x as many threes per 100 poss on same %. However, I fear that he's swung on the positive end this year as his FT% stayed the same. So he's probably more likely a 33-35% shooter (which is still valuable).

If a trade between Carter Jr and Allen would happen, it would most likely require some extra juice even with a few picks.

Also, don't really see why the Magic would want this as their problem is offense and not defense.

WCJ has steadily improved his shooting - I think it's real. Adding a defensive rim-protecting beast in the middle is secondary, imo, to adding a backcourt scoring threat...I'd be willing to sacrifice a bit of defense (next to pitbull Suggs) for more floor spreading. I think WCJ's versatility and BBIQ is somewhat compromised playing next to two 6'10 iso guys, who can do everything on offense...I think WCJ has a lot more in his bag and he's still very young. I'd be fine rolling with him, but I consider him ORL's best trade chip to get the floor spreading guard we desperately lack.

Good luck I guess.

[JonFromVA]

I imagine the future of the Allen and Mobley pairing will depend on who the coach of the team is next season.

There's too many independent variables going on with this series to draw the conclusion that the Cavs were better off without Allen last night.

[jbk1234]

It's easy to point to Allen being out and conclude that the Cavs offense runs better with only one big, but Allen and Mobley have had their minutes staggered all series and our offense hasn't been more impressive while one of them rested. Our defense has been worse with one of them off the floor.

Strus was never going to shoot as poorly as he has all series. As much as I wish it were otherwise, Morris probably won't shoot that well again. In a two-point game, any number of variables matter. Morris for Niang was the substitution I see as outcome determinative.

[JujitsuFlip]

I hope they find a good trade for Allen this summer too, his value is so high. Time to rip off the band aid for Mobley.