Moderator: ijspeelman
JujitsuFlip wrote:Huh?KuruptedCav wrote:JujitsuFlip wrote:Maybe but not value to the likes of 6 first rounders, an All-Star, and some guy named Sexton.
They got Mitchell + 2FRPs by the logic
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KuruptedCav wrote:JujitsuFlip wrote:Huh?KuruptedCav wrote:They got Mitchell + 2FRPs by the logic
Counting unlikely to convey pick swaps as FRPs…
If you swap them out you need to account for the UTA ones coming back.
We've been hearing the, "unlikely to convey picks" thing for awhile.KuruptedCav wrote:JujitsuFlip wrote:Huh?KuruptedCav wrote:They got Mitchell + 2FRPs by the logic
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Counting unlikely to convey pick swaps as FRPs…
If you swap them out you need to account for the UTA ones coming back.
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JujitsuFlip wrote:We've been hearing the, "unlikely to convey picks" thing for awhile.KuruptedCav wrote:JujitsuFlip wrote:Huh?
Counting unlikely to convey pick swaps as FRPs…
If you swap them out you need to account for the UTA ones coming back.
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And no you wouldn't say the Cavs got 2 picks + Mitchell, they do not have the right to swap, it is a 1 way street.
Even if you try to nitpick the whole package, it is still atrocious for the Cavs, how much they gave up.
3 unprotected 1st rounders
2 unprotected 1st round swaps
The draft rights to a lottery player
An All-Star
Collin Sexton (on a contract less than he was reportedly asking from the Cavs).
Who cares, he wasn't needed lolJonFromVA wrote:JujitsuFlip wrote:We've been hearing the, "unlikely to convey picks" thing for awhile.KuruptedCav wrote:Counting unlikely to convey pick swaps as FRPs…
If you swap them out you need to account for the UTA ones coming back.
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And no you wouldn't say the Cavs got 2 picks + Mitchell, they do not have the right to swap, it is a 1 way street.
Even if you try to nitpick the whole package, it is still atrocious for the Cavs, how much they gave up.
3 unprotected 1st rounders
2 unprotected 1st round swaps
The draft rights to a lottery player
An All-Star
Collin Sexton (on a contract less than he was reportedly asking from the Cavs).
Because 26 year old NBA All Second Teamers usually go for what?
Historically speaking it has been...JonFromVA wrote:JujitsuFlip wrote:We've been hearing the, "unlikely to convey picks" thing for awhile.KuruptedCav wrote:Counting unlikely to convey pick swaps as FRPs…
If you swap them out you need to account for the UTA ones coming back.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
And no you wouldn't say the Cavs got 2 picks + Mitchell, they do not have the right to swap, it is a 1 way street.
Even if you try to nitpick the whole package, it is still atrocious for the Cavs, how much they gave up.
3 unprotected 1st rounders
2 unprotected 1st round swaps
The draft rights to a lottery player
An All-Star
Collin Sexton (on a contract less than he was reportedly asking from the Cavs).
Because 26 year old NBA All Second Teamers usually go for what?
JujitsuFlip wrote:Historically speaking it has been...JonFromVA wrote:JujitsuFlip wrote:We've been hearing the, "unlikely to convey picks" thing for awhile.
And no you wouldn't say the Cavs got 2 picks + Mitchell, they do not have the right to swap, it is a 1 way street.
Even if you try to nitpick the whole package, it is still atrocious for the Cavs, how much they gave up.
3 unprotected 1st rounders
2 unprotected 1st round swaps
The draft rights to a lottery player
An All-Star
Collin Sexton (on a contract less than he was reportedly asking from the Cavs).
Because 26 year old NBA All Second Teamers usually go for what?
For a NBA champion, Finals MVP, 2 time All-NBA, 2 time DPOY, 4 time All-Defense + his 1 time All-Defense teammate... It was an All-Star, a prospect, and a protected 1st rounder.
For a 4 time All-NBA, 2 time scoring champ, 1 time MIP + his 1 time All-NBA teammate + his other 2 time champion teammate + a 4th teammate prospect... It was an All-Star (who they ended up getting back 2 seasons later) + 2 vets.
For a 2 time All-NBA... It was an All-Star, a prospect, $3 million cash, and 2 unprotected 1st rounders.
For a 3 time All-NBA, 3 time All-Defense, 1 time MIP... It was 2 prospects.
Do I need to keep going? The point is, Koby got taken advantage of by Ainge.
You can if you would like, i was just going by the parameters Jon presented.mcfly1204 wrote:JujitsuFlip wrote:Historically speaking it has been...JonFromVA wrote:
Because 26 year old NBA All Second Teamers usually go for what?
For a NBA champion, Finals MVP, 2 time All-NBA, 2 time DPOY, 4 time All-Defense + his 1 time All-Defense teammate... It was an All-Star, a prospect, and a protected 1st rounder.
For a 4 time All-NBA, 2 time scoring champ, 1 time MIP + his 1 time All-NBA teammate + his other 2 time champion teammate + a 4th teammate prospect... It was an All-Star (who they ended up getting back 2 seasons later) + 2 vets.
For a 2 time All-NBA... It was an All-Star, a prospect, $3 million cash, and 2 unprotected 1st rounders.
For a 3 time All-NBA, 3 time All-Defense, 1 time MIP... It was 2 prospects.
Do I need to keep going? The point is, Koby got taken advantage of by Ainge.
Not enough context there. Do we need to call out deals where sizable assets where given up for star level players?
JujitsuFlip wrote:Who cares, he wasn't needed lolJonFromVA wrote:JujitsuFlip wrote:We've been hearing the, "unlikely to convey picks" thing for awhile.
And no you wouldn't say the Cavs got 2 picks + Mitchell, they do not have the right to swap, it is a 1 way street.
Even if you try to nitpick the whole package, it is still atrocious for the Cavs, how much they gave up.
3 unprotected 1st rounders
2 unprotected 1st round swaps
The draft rights to a lottery player
An All-Star
Collin Sexton (on a contract less than he was reportedly asking from the Cavs).
Because 26 year old NBA All Second Teamers usually go for what?
Shoulda just let Ainge and the Knicks have a pissing contest.
No need to overpay for a guy when your betting against yourself, that's like asking for a hit in blackjack when you have 20, you just stay, you don't hit.
At this current moment Mobley is 22 and Garland is 23, what exactly is the rush to trade away 5 future drafts again? I fail to see the urgency.KuruptedCav wrote:JujitsuFlip wrote:Who cares, he wasn't needed lolJonFromVA wrote:
Because 26 year old NBA All Second Teamers usually go for what?
Shoulda just let Ainge and the Knicks have a pissing contest.
No need to overpay for a guy when your betting against yourself, that's like asking for a hit in blackjack when you have 20, you just stay, you don't hit.
Something did. Sexton was negative, Love was getting older, and the team was mediocre.
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JujitsuFlip wrote:Who cares, he wasn't needed lolJonFromVA wrote:JujitsuFlip wrote:We've been hearing the, "unlikely to convey picks" thing for awhile.
And no you wouldn't say the Cavs got 2 picks + Mitchell, they do not have the right to swap, it is a 1 way street.
Even if you try to nitpick the whole package, it is still atrocious for the Cavs, how much they gave up.
3 unprotected 1st rounders
2 unprotected 1st round swaps
The draft rights to a lottery player
An All-Star
Collin Sexton (on a contract less than he was reportedly asking from the Cavs).
Because 26 year old NBA All Second Teamers usually go for what?
Shoulda just let Ainge and the Knicks have a pissing contest.
No need to overpay for a guy when your betting against yourself, that's like asking for a hit in blackjack when you have 20, you just stay, you don't hit.
Don't tell me we had Ace 6, ain't no way lolmcfly1204 wrote:JujitsuFlip wrote:Who cares, he wasn't needed lolJonFromVA wrote:
Because 26 year old NBA All Second Teamers usually go for what?
Shoulda just let Ainge and the Knicks have a pissing contest.
No need to overpay for a guy when your betting against yourself, that's like asking for a hit in blackjack when you have 20, you just stay, you don't hit.
I feel like we were holding a soft 17.
JujitsuFlip wrote:Don't tell me we had Ace 6, ain't no way lolmcfly1204 wrote:JujitsuFlip wrote:Who cares, he wasn't needed lol
Shoulda just let Ainge and the Knicks have a pissing contest.
No need to overpay for a guy when your betting against yourself, that's like asking for a hit in blackjack when you have 20, you just stay, you don't hit.
I feel like we were holding a soft 17.
Ainge was in no position of power, Cavs shoulda at least put protections on the picks or not thrown in the swaps or make it less picks, or keep Agbaji or something.
I cannot fathom Ainge asked for more than what was given, I believe that was his very first request and Koby said deal.
All other assets aside, another team controlling your draft for 5 consecutive years is wild, especially when Mitchell may not even be in a Cavs uniform for that entire window.
It was not a soft 17, Cavs had a King and Jack showing and said hit me dealer.mcfly1204 wrote:JujitsuFlip wrote:Don't tell me we had Ace 6, ain't no way lolmcfly1204 wrote:I feel like we were holding a soft 17.
Ainge was in no position of power, Cavs shoulda at least put protections on the picks or not thrown in the swaps or make it less picks, or keep Agbaji or something.
I cannot fathom Ainge asked for more than what was given, I believe that was his very first request and Koby said deal.
All other assets aside, another team controlling your draft for 5 consecutive years is wild, especially when Mitchell may not even be in a Cavs uniform for that entire window.
Soft 17 is dead-on. We took a shot, and even if it does not work out, we are not out of it by any means. The rest of your assessments there... Altman outbidding himself, Ainge not asking for more, another team controlling draft picks for 5 years being "wild"...
JujitsuFlip wrote:Historically speaking it has been...JonFromVA wrote:JujitsuFlip wrote:We've been hearing the, "unlikely to convey picks" thing for awhile.
And no you wouldn't say the Cavs got 2 picks + Mitchell, they do not have the right to swap, it is a 1 way street.
Even if you try to nitpick the whole package, it is still atrocious for the Cavs, how much they gave up.
3 unprotected 1st rounders
2 unprotected 1st round swaps
The draft rights to a lottery player
An All-Star
Collin Sexton (on a contract less than he was reportedly asking from the Cavs).
Because 26 year old NBA All Second Teamers usually go for what?
For a NBA champion, Finals MVP, 2 time All-NBA, 2 time DPOY, 4 time All-Defense + his 1 time All-Defense teammate... It was an All-Star, a prospect, and a protected 1st rounder.
For a 4 time All-NBA, 2 time scoring champ, 1 time MIP + his 1 time All-NBA teammate + his other 2 time champion teammate + a 4th teammate prospect... It was an All-Star (who they ended up getting back 2 seasons later) + 2 vets.
For a 2 time All-NBA... It was an All-Star, a prospect, $3 million cash, and 2 unprotected 1st rounders.
For a 3 time All-NBA, 3 time All-Defense, 1 time MIP... It was 2 prospects.
Do I need to keep going? The point is, Koby got taken advantage of by Ainge.
JonFromVA wrote:JujitsuFlip wrote:Historically speaking it has been...JonFromVA wrote:
Because 26 year old NBA All Second Teamers usually go for what?
For a NBA champion, Finals MVP, 2 time All-NBA, 2 time DPOY, 4 time All-Defense + his 1 time All-Defense teammate... It was an All-Star, a prospect, and a protected 1st rounder.
For a 4 time All-NBA, 2 time scoring champ, 1 time MIP + his 1 time All-NBA teammate + his other 2 time champion teammate + a 4th teammate prospect... It was an All-Star (who they ended up getting back 2 seasons later) + 2 vets.
For a 2 time All-NBA... It was an All-Star, a prospect, $3 million cash, and 2 unprotected 1st rounders.
For a 3 time All-NBA, 3 time All-Defense, 1 time MIP... It was 2 prospects.
Do I need to keep going? The point is, Koby got taken advantage of by Ainge.
No, you really don't or you would have mentioned, names, ages, and achievements their first season with the new team.
JujitsuFlip wrote:JonFromVA wrote:JujitsuFlip wrote:Historically speaking it has been...
For a NBA champion, Finals MVP, 2 time All-NBA, 2 time DPOY, 4 time All-Defense + his 1 time All-Defense teammate... It was an All-Star, a prospect, and a protected 1st rounder.
For a 4 time All-NBA, 2 time scoring champ, 1 time MIP + his 1 time All-NBA teammate + his other 2 time champion teammate + a 4th teammate prospect... It was an All-Star (who they ended up getting back 2 seasons later) + 2 vets.
For a 2 time All-NBA... It was an All-Star, a prospect, $3 million cash, and 2 unprotected 1st rounders.
For a 3 time All-NBA, 3 time All-Defense, 1 time MIP... It was 2 prospects.
Do I need to keep going? The point is, Koby got taken advantage of by Ainge.
No, you really don't or you would have mentioned, names, ages, and achievements their first season with the new team.
Sure thing.
Kawhi Leonard age 27, won a championship his first year with his new team, was Finals MVP, All-Star, All-NBA, All-Defense.
T-Mac age 25, All-Star, All-NBA, won 51 games (5 seed), lost in 7 games in the 1st round.
Deron Williams age 27, he was a mid-season trade so you let me know if ya want that half season or the following first full season.
Paul George age 27, All-Star, All-NBA, won 48 games (4 seed), lost in 6 games in the 1st round to Donovan Mitchell.
I left out details because you're gonna straw man this reply now but proceed.
JonFromVA wrote:JujitsuFlip wrote:JonFromVA wrote:
No, you really don't or you would have mentioned, names, ages, and achievements their first season with the new team.
Sure thing.
Kawhi Leonard age 27, won a championship his first year with his new team, was Finals MVP, All-Star, All-NBA, All-Defense.
T-Mac age 25, All-Star, All-NBA, won 51 games (5 seed), lost in 7 games in the 1st round.
Deron Williams age 27, he was a mid-season trade so you let me know if ya want that half season or the following first full season.
Paul George age 27, All-Star, All-NBA, won 48 games (4 seed), lost in 6 games in the 1st round to Donovan Mitchell.
I left out details because you're gonna straw man this reply now but proceed.
Stawman?
You mean like calling Lauri an All-Star when before the trade, he was just that guy we got by redirecting a crappy late first round pick we got for LNJ to Chicago?
No ... details matter. Like for instance contract length.
So, my bad for not including the fact that Mitchell was under contract for 3 more seasons at the time he was traded.
The Deron Williams trade is likely the closest to where we sit now with Mitchell given he had 2 years left when he was covertly traded to the Nets for Favors (3rd overall pick), Harris (5th overall pick), and two future firsts.
If in another year, we decide to trade him for another team's starting back-court, let's hope it's not the modern equivalent of Stevie Francis and Cutino Mobley.
JujitsuFlip wrote:JonFromVA wrote:JujitsuFlip wrote:Sure thing.
Kawhi Leonard age 27, won a championship his first year with his new team, was Finals MVP, All-Star, All-NBA, All-Defense.
T-Mac age 25, All-Star, All-NBA, won 51 games (5 seed), lost in 7 games in the 1st round.
Deron Williams age 27, he was a mid-season trade so you let me know if ya want that half season or the following first full season.
Paul George age 27, All-Star, All-NBA, won 48 games (4 seed), lost in 6 games in the 1st round to Donovan Mitchell.
I left out details because you're gonna straw man this reply now but proceed.
Stawman?
You mean like calling Lauri an All-Star when before the trade, he was just that guy we got by redirecting a crappy late first round pick we got for LNJ to Chicago?
No ... details matter. Like for instance contract length.
So, my bad for not including the fact that Mitchell was under contract for 3 more seasons at the time he was traded.
The Deron Williams trade is likely the closest to where we sit now with Mitchell given he had 2 years left when he was covertly traded to the Nets for Favors (3rd overall pick), Harris (5th overall pick), and two future firsts.
If in another year, we decide to trade him for another team's starting back-court, let's hope it's not the modern equivalent of Stevie Francis and Cutino Mobley.
Lauri is an All-Star though lol
I mean a back court in their prime wouldn't be awful but with Garland and Strus ability to play 2, ain't no way.
