Love Bought Out

[JujitsuFlip]

https://www.fearthesword.com/2023/2/16/23602245/kevin-love-cleveland-cavaliers-expected-to-reach-buyout-agreement

Shoulda just traded the guy.

Anyway, thanks to Love for the 9 seasons, where do we think he ends up?

Also, who are the Cavs signing in his place?

[jbk1234]

This makes very little sense from the Cavs perspective. Wade or Allen could get injured and now we won't even have Kevin as an emergency option. He was at least a theoretical S&T possibility if he wanted more than the taxMLE next summer. Same agency as Drummond and one the Cavs should probably not deal with going forward.

[jbk1234]

Also, the Heat clearly tampered here.

[ijspeelman]

This makes very little sense from the Cavs perspective. Wade or Allen could get injured and now we won't even have Kevin as an emergency option. He was at least a theoretical S&T possibility if he wanted more than the taxMLE next summer. Same agency as Drummond and one the Cavs should probably not deal with going forward.

Curious what happened here. I assume he wanted more PT after his hand injury, but (probably rightfully so) players moved up in the depth chart past him.

Surprised we didn’t trade him (maybe we tried?). I assume Love would have let his intentions be known prior to the deadline.

Anyway, thanks Love for the 8 years. Highest of highs and lowest of lows. Good luck on your next venture.

[afarmenian]

Maybe they just want to do him a solid. And I don't think expiring contracts had as much value this year the cavs probably just want to keep flexible to get a rotation piece and we're content to let it expire.

As far as keeping him goes I just think he looked totally washed he gets abused on defense he has to be like a sharpshooter to justify his defense and I would take my chances on having Stevens out there at this point as an emergency pf

[El Hespiritu]

La Mar is an all-around player. 'Course he can play PF though I prefer him as a (non) Shooting Forward or a (non) Shooting Guard.

Love is love.
Dr. Amor, we used to call him when Ricky introduced him to us at The Tundra.

A heck of a player.

I coincide: franchise wanted to be considerate with him in order to facilitate him some well-paid last dance elsewhere.
In part because that kind of generosity always makes the franchise looks good to the eyes of players and agencies.

And maybe even they honestly felt he deserved a friendly farewell.

[toooskies]

There is going to be more to come out about how things ended, I'm sure. But we should be grateful for everything he's done over the years.

Weird that there were rumors of a buyout, then Koby not expecting a buyout, and then there being a buyout fairly soon after that. Makes me think the buyout was all promoted from Kevin's side. If he wants a contract above the vet minimum, he's going to want to play out the rest of the year. Wade hasn't looked great offensively as his replacement, but he has looked pretty good defensively.

I wonder if the Cavs have another buyout target lined up that they like better than the hope that Kevin turns things around? They couldn't sign a veteran's minimum guy right now, and a buyout might give them enough space under the cap. Possibly a guy who was going to take the 3rd or 4th big role that Love doesn't want to be behind-- Ibaka? Carmelo Anthony? Dwight Howard?

Obviously we would need a roster spot for another buyout guy, but we also need a little bit of money to sign that kind of guy right now, and the other possible roster spot casualties (Windler, Neto) aren't giving money back.

[JujitsuFlip]

There is going to be more to come out about how things ended, I'm sure. But we should be grateful for everything he's done over the years.

Weird that there were rumors of a buyout, then Koby not expecting a buyout, and then there being a buyout fairly soon after that. Makes me think the buyout was all promoted from Kevin's side. If he wants a contract above the vet minimum, he's going to want to play out the rest of the year. Wade hasn't looked great offensively as his replacement, but he has looked pretty good defensively.

I wonder if the Cavs have another buyout target lined up that they like better than the hope that Kevin turns things around? They couldn't sign a veteran's minimum guy right now, and a buyout might give them enough space under the cap. Possibly a guy who was going to take the 3rd or 4th big role that Love doesn't want to be behind-- Ibaka? Carmelo Anthony? Dwight Howard?

Obviously we would need a roster spot for another buyout guy, but we also need a little bit of money to sign that kind of guy right now, and the other possible roster spot casualties (Windler, Neto) aren't giving money back.

I hope they find another buyout target to fill the yet again open 15th roster spot, the longer they wait, the more prorated the money will be against the cap, right?

[toooskies]

There is going to be more to come out about how things ended, I'm sure. But we should be grateful for everything he's done over the years.

Weird that there were rumors of a buyout, then Koby not expecting a buyout, and then there being a buyout fairly soon after that. Makes me think the buyout was all promoted from Kevin's side. If he wants a contract above the vet minimum, he's going to want to play out the rest of the year. Wade hasn't looked great offensively as his replacement, but he has looked pretty good defensively.

I wonder if the Cavs have another buyout target lined up that they like better than the hope that Kevin turns things around? They couldn't sign a veteran's minimum guy right now, and a buyout might give them enough space under the cap. Possibly a guy who was going to take the 3rd or 4th big role that Love doesn't want to be behind-- Ibaka? Carmelo Anthony? Dwight Howard?

Obviously we would need a roster spot for another buyout guy, but we also need a little bit of money to sign that kind of guy right now, and the other possible roster spot casualties (Windler, Neto) aren't giving money back.

I hope they find another buyout target to fill the yet again open 15th roster spot, the longer they wait, the more prorated the money will be against the cap, right?

Yep. The math I did the other day had us being locked out of the buyout market for the next 8 days or so to stay under the tax-- more if the Cavs wanted a little bit of a buffer in case they need to sign someone to a 10-day or something. If Love gives the veteran's minimum back to the Cavs in the buyout, we'll have that plus $471k available for another guy.

Or we could promote one of Diakite, Isaiah Mobley, or Sharife Cooper to the full-time roster.

[jbk1234]

La Mar is an all-around player. 'Course he can play PF though I prefer him as a (non) Shooting Forward or a (non) Shooting Guard.

Love is love.
Dr. Amor, we used to call him when Ricky introduced him to us at The Tundra.

A heck of a player.

I coincide: franchise wanted to be considerate with him in order to facilitate him some well-paid last dance elsewhere.
In part because that kind of generosity always makes the franchise looks good to the eyes of players and agencies.

And maybe even they honestly felt he deserved a friendly farewell.

Lamar has been bad this season and putting guys like him in the lineup and burning possessions on their three point attempts is a huge part of the problem.

[JonFromVA]

La Mar is an all-around player. 'Course he can play PF though I prefer him as a (non) Shooting Forward or a (non) Shooting Guard.

Love is love.
Dr. Amor, we used to call him when Ricky introduced him to us at The Tundra.

A heck of a player.

I coincide: franchise wanted to be considerate with him in order to facilitate him some well-paid last dance elsewhere.
In part because that kind of generosity always makes the franchise looks good to the eyes of players and agencies.

And maybe even they honestly felt he deserved a friendly farewell.

Lamar has been bad this season and putting guys like him in the lineup and burning possessions on their three point attempts is a huge part of the problem.

But Lamar doesn't break the defense, so, that seems to be the realization JBB has arrived at.

Likely a few factors in Kevin's release:
- his desire to go play somewhere else and show what he's got and demonstrate his value for next season
- that another team is interested in him
- JBB's lack of interest in playing him even if his back and thumb are 100%
- our desire to part on friendly terms with Kevin
- the buyout amount - which as toooskies pointed out will determine how much $ we have under the cap

It's problematic that he's going to Miami and there's a chance we could face them in the playoffs, but that looks unlikely at the moment.

[toooskies]

La Mar is an all-around player. 'Course he can play PF though I prefer him as a (non) Shooting Forward or a (non) Shooting Guard.

Love is love.
Dr. Amor, we used to call him when Ricky introduced him to us at The Tundra.

A heck of a player.

I coincide: franchise wanted to be considerate with him in order to facilitate him some well-paid last dance elsewhere.
In part because that kind of generosity always makes the franchise looks good to the eyes of players and agencies.

And maybe even they honestly felt he deserved a friendly farewell.

Lamar has been bad this season and putting guys like him in the lineup and burning possessions on their three point attempts is a huge part of the problem.

Every Mobley 3-point shot may be an investment in the future, but is a much worse shot than one from Lamar Stevens.

JBB tries to use Lamar like he uses Isaac and that both leads to the comparison that they're similar type players, but Isaac's strengths (staying with quick guards) are not Lamar's strengths (not giving up ground to strong forwards). Isaac is also an attack-the-closeout threat in addition to having a more reliable 3-point shot, whereas Lamar should only be an emergency shooter and more often function as the second big-- he's bulky enough to set screens, can get up enough to catch lobs, can protect the rim when he's in position. All things Okoro isn't as good at.

In other words-- Lamar's fine when used correctly, but he's not ideal when used in situations where he's not ideal. The starting lineup specifically was a not-ideal scenario for him.

[JujitsuFlip]

There is going to be more to come out about how things ended, I'm sure. But we should be grateful for everything he's done over the years.

Weird that there were rumors of a buyout, then Koby not expecting a buyout, and then there being a buyout fairly soon after that. Makes me think the buyout was all promoted from Kevin's side. If he wants a contract above the vet minimum, he's going to want to play out the rest of the year. Wade hasn't looked great offensively as his replacement, but he has looked pretty good defensively.

I wonder if the Cavs have another buyout target lined up that they like better than the hope that Kevin turns things around? They couldn't sign a veteran's minimum guy right now, and a buyout might give them enough space under the cap. Possibly a guy who was going to take the 3rd or 4th big role that Love doesn't want to be behind-- Ibaka? Carmelo Anthony? Dwight Howard?

Obviously we would need a roster spot for another buyout guy, but we also need a little bit of money to sign that kind of guy right now, and the other possible roster spot casualties (Windler, Neto) aren't giving money back.

I hope they find another buyout target to fill the yet again open 15th roster spot, the longer they wait, the more prorated the money will be against the cap, right?

Yep. The math I did the other day had us being locked out of the buyout market for the next 8 days or so to stay under the tax-- more if the Cavs wanted a little bit of a buffer in case they need to sign someone to a 10-day or something. If Love gives the veteran's minimum back to the Cavs in the buyout, we'll have that plus $471k available for another guy.

Or we could promote one of Diakite, Isaiah Mobley, or Sharife Cooper to the full-time roster.

I always assumed that's what they were gonna do, prior to signing Green. Maybe they will surprise me again.

[jbk1234]

La Mar is an all-around player. 'Course he can play PF though I prefer him as a (non) Shooting Forward or a (non) Shooting Guard.

Love is love.
Dr. Amor, we used to call him when Ricky introduced him to us at The Tundra.

A heck of a player.

I coincide: franchise wanted to be considerate with him in order to facilitate him some well-paid last dance elsewhere.
In part because that kind of generosity always makes the franchise looks good to the eyes of players and agencies.

And maybe even they honestly felt he deserved a friendly farewell.

Lamar has been bad this season and putting guys like him in the lineup and burning possessions on their three point attempts is a huge part of the problem.

Every Mobley 3-point shot may be an investment in the future, but is a much worse shot than one from Lamar Stevens.

JBB tries to use Lamar like he uses Isaac and that both leads to the comparison that they're similar type players, but Isaac's strengths (staying with quick guards) are not Lamar's strengths (not giving up ground to strong forwards). Isaac is also an attack-the-closeout threat in addition to having a more reliable 3-point shot, whereas Lamar should only be an emergency shooter and more often function as the second big-- he's bulky enough to set screens, can get up enough to catch lobs, can protect the rim when he's in position. All things Okoro isn't as good at.

In other words-- Lamar's fine when used correctly, but he's not ideal when used in situations where he's not ideal. The starting lineup specifically was a not-ideal scenario for him.

When given more minutes this season, Lamar has looked like a borderline NBA player. He's passable when he's going all out and sub replacement level when he's more worried about scoring. Lamar has a say in whether he's used correctly and taking 4 shots in 4 minutes against a team like the Sixers, while converting one attempt, ain't it. Those are the wasted possessions we can't afford.

[toooskies]

Lamar has been bad this season and putting guys like him in the lineup and burning possessions on their three point attempts is a huge part of the problem.

Every Mobley 3-point shot may be an investment in the future, but is a much worse shot than one from Lamar Stevens.

JBB tries to use Lamar like he uses Isaac and that both leads to the comparison that they're similar type players, but Isaac's strengths (staying with quick guards) are not Lamar's strengths (not giving up ground to strong forwards). Isaac is also an attack-the-closeout threat in addition to having a more reliable 3-point shot, whereas Lamar should only be an emergency shooter and more often function as the second big-- he's bulky enough to set screens, can get up enough to catch lobs, can protect the rim when he's in position. All things Okoro isn't as good at.

In other words-- Lamar's fine when used correctly, but he's not ideal when used in situations where he's not ideal. The starting lineup specifically was a not-ideal scenario for him.

When given more minutes this season, Lamar has looked like a borderline NBA player. He's passable when he's going all out and sub replacement level when he's more worried about scoring. Lamar has a say in whether he's used correctly and taking 4 shots in 4 minutes against a team like the Sixers, while converting one attempt, ain't it. Those are the wasted possessions we can't afford.

Yeah, Lamar looked bad with the starters. The offense has no spacing in those lineups and his defensive responsibility is to take the toughest perimeter guy, and that guy is too quick for him. Older veterans like Harden or DeRozan are too crafty.

Since going to the bench after his starting stint, Stevens has a 65% true shooting. He's fine taking some shots in his five minute stint, better than Wade going 0-1 and being invisible out there.

I agree with you that he's best used off the bench, and not necessarily in the regular rotation. He played the worst when being asked to be a 3-and-D wing and guard the other team's best perimeter player. He's not quick enough to do that. I definitely like him at the 4 more than I like Osman there.

[jbk1234]

Every Mobley 3-point shot may be an investment in the future, but is a much worse shot than one from Lamar Stevens.

JBB tries to use Lamar like he uses Isaac and that both leads to the comparison that they're similar type players, but Isaac's strengths (staying with quick guards) are not Lamar's strengths (not giving up ground to strong forwards). Isaac is also an attack-the-closeout threat in addition to having a more reliable 3-point shot, whereas Lamar should only be an emergency shooter and more often function as the second big-- he's bulky enough to set screens, can get up enough to catch lobs, can protect the rim when he's in position. All things Okoro isn't as good at.

In other words-- Lamar's fine when used correctly, but he's not ideal when used in situations where he's not ideal. The starting lineup specifically was a not-ideal scenario for him.

When given more minutes this season, Lamar has looked like a borderline NBA player. He's passable when he's going all out and sub replacement level when he's more worried about scoring. Lamar has a say in whether he's used correctly and taking 4 shots in 4 minutes against a team like the Sixers, while converting one attempt, ain't it. Those are the wasted possessions we can't afford.

Yeah, Lamar looked bad with the starters. The offense has no spacing in those lineups and his defensive responsibility is to take the toughest perimeter guy, and that guy is too quick for him. Older veterans like Harden or DeRozan are too crafty.

Since going to the bench after his starting stint, Stevens has a 65% true shooting. He's fine taking some shots in his five minute stint, better than Wade going 0-1 and being invisible out there.

I agree with you that he's best used off the bench, and not necessarily in the regular rotation. He played the worst when being asked to be a 3-and-D wing and guard the other team's best perimeter player. He's not quick enough to do that. I definitely like him at the 4 more than I like Osman there.

Wade had 4 defensive rebounds and two forced jump balls (off of Sixers possessions) in 8 minutes. How is that invisible?

Moreover, the primary job of the 5th guy on floor is too space the floor for the four other starters who are very efficient when given any type of spacing. You don't want your less efficient players forcing the issue. That's stupid basketball. I promise you Doc was thrilled with Mobley's three point attempts and Stevens attempts. He was likely equally pleased with Mitchell jacking up contested threes early in the shot clock in the first half. Your opponent likes it when you play dumb. Makes it easier on them.

Wade's job is to space the floor and make an occasional back cut when the player defending him falls asleep. That's it. If he's only getting one or two attempts, it's either because his defender isn't leaving him, or we're doing a poor job of getting him the ball when he's open.

I can already see this becoming an issue with Danny Green as well. It's been an issue with Love in the past. The guys slotted on your roster to make open 3s have to get the ball when they're open. Not once, twice, or even three times, but at least four. The failure to do that is on the team, not the shooter.

[toooskies]

When given more minutes this season, Lamar has looked like a borderline NBA player. He's passable when he's going all out and sub replacement level when he's more worried about scoring. Lamar has a say in whether he's used correctly and taking 4 shots in 4 minutes against a team like the Sixers, while converting one attempt, ain't it. Those are the wasted possessions we can't afford.

Yeah, Lamar looked bad with the starters. The offense has no spacing in those lineups and his defensive responsibility is to take the toughest perimeter guy, and that guy is too quick for him. Older veterans like Harden or DeRozan are too crafty.

Since going to the bench after his starting stint, Stevens has a 65% true shooting. He's fine taking some shots in his five minute stint, better than Wade going 0-1 and being invisible out there.

I agree with you that he's best used off the bench, and not necessarily in the regular rotation. He played the worst when being asked to be a 3-and-D wing and guard the other team's best perimeter player. He's not quick enough to do that. I definitely like him at the 4 more than I like Osman there.

Wade had 4 defensive rebounds and two forced jump balls (off of Sixers possessions) in 8 minutes. How is that invisible?

Moreover, the primary job of the 5th guy on floor is too space the floor for the four other starters who are very efficient when given any type of spacing. You don't want your less efficient players forcing the issue. That's stupid basketball. I promise you Doc was thrilled with Mobley's three point attempts and Stevens attempts. He was likely equally pleased with Mitchell jacking up contested threes early in the shot clock in the first half. Your opponent likes it when you play dumb. Makes it easier on them.

Wade's job is to space the floor and make an occasional back cut when the player defending him falls asleep. That's it. If he's only getting one or two attempts, it's either because his defender isn't leaving him, or we're doing a poor job of getting him the ball when he's open.

I can already see this becoming an issue with Danny Green as well. It's been an issue with Love in the past. The guys slotted on your roster to make open 3s have to get the ball when they're open. Not once, twice, or even three times, but at least four. The failure to do that is on the team, not the shooter.

When Wade's out there with Neto and Stevens or even Green, he's not the 5th guy on offense and he needs to hunt his shots a little bit. Or else you end up having Stevens do it.

[KuruptedCav]

Lamar has been bad this season and putting guys like him in the lineup and burning possessions on their three point attempts is a huge part of the problem.

Every Mobley 3-point shot may be an investment in the future, but is a much worse shot than one from Lamar Stevens.

JBB tries to use Lamar like he uses Isaac and that both leads to the comparison that they're similar type players, but Isaac's strengths (staying with quick guards) are not Lamar's strengths (not giving up ground to strong forwards). Isaac is also an attack-the-closeout threat in addition to having a more reliable 3-point shot, whereas Lamar should only be an emergency shooter and more often function as the second big-- he's bulky enough to set screens, can get up enough to catch lobs, can protect the rim when he's in position. All things Okoro isn't as good at.

In other words-- Lamar's fine when used correctly, but he's not ideal when used in situations where he's not ideal. The starting lineup specifically was a not-ideal scenario for him.

When given more minutes this season, Lamar has looked like a borderline NBA player. He's passable when he's going all out and sub replacement level when he's more worried about scoring. Lamar has a say in whether he's used correctly and taking 4 shots in 4 minutes against a team like the Sixers, while converting one attempt, ain't it. Those are the wasted possessions we can't afford.

Agreed.

I’m the first person to want Okoro to shoot; and when he goes 1-4 I want him to take a 5th shot. He’s 22 and has other offensive skills that are better utilized when he stretches the defense; and he hits at a reasonable clip.

Rubio is struggling with his shot, but his game is dynamic enough that there is value in defenses picking him up beyond the arc.

Stevens in the other hand gives me indigestion. He should be setting picks and positioning for ORB, and in most lineups, the last person shooting the ball from outside 15’.

To be fair to him, he has improved. But not to the point where he should be taking those shots on this team.

I also don’t want to see Mobley taking those shots. I get that some can be attributed to development and that Mobley has been working all season on extending his shot and being more selective when he takes them. And I never want to see Allen dicking around at the 3pt line.

It’s really difficult for a defensive player to make up for discarded possessions on offense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jbk1234]

Yeah, Lamar looked bad with the starters. The offense has no spacing in those lineups and his defensive responsibility is to take the toughest perimeter guy, and that guy is too quick for him. Older veterans like Harden or DeRozan are too crafty.

Since going to the bench after his starting stint, Stevens has a 65% true shooting. He's fine taking some shots in his five minute stint, better than Wade going 0-1 and being invisible out there.

I agree with you that he's best used off the bench, and not necessarily in the regular rotation. He played the worst when being asked to be a 3-and-D wing and guard the other team's best perimeter player. He's not quick enough to do that. I definitely like him at the 4 more than I like Osman there.

Wade had 4 defensive rebounds and two forced jump balls (off of Sixers possessions) in 8 minutes. How is that invisible?

Moreover, the primary job of the 5th guy on floor is too space the floor for the four other starters who are very efficient when given any type of spacing. You don't want your less efficient players forcing the issue. That's stupid basketball. I promise you Doc was thrilled with Mobley's three point attempts and Stevens attempts. He was likely equally pleased with Mitchell jacking up contested threes early in the shot clock in the first half. Your opponent likes it when you play dumb. Makes it easier on them.

Wade's job is to space the floor and make an occasional back cut when the player defending him falls asleep. That's it. If he's only getting one or two attempts, it's either because his defender isn't leaving him, or we're doing a poor job of getting him the ball when he's open.

I can already see this becoming an issue with Danny Green as well. It's been an issue with Love in the past. The guys slotted on your roster to make open 3s have to get the ball when they're open. Not once, twice, or even three times, but at least four. The failure to do that is on the team, not the shooter.

When Wade's out there with Neto and Stevens or even Green, he's not the 5th guy on offense and he needs to hunt his shots a little bit. Or else you end up having Stevens do it.

If the guy out there to provide spacing isn't open on the perimeter because his defender isn't leaving him, he's done his job. If the other guys out there with him can't score with the spacing provided, then they shouldn't be out there.

If the guy there to provide spacing is open and his teammates just aren't getting him the ball, then his teammates, or the coaches, are the problem. I can't think of another team in the NBA that struggles as much as the Cavs in this area. It's basic stuff.

All I know is that if they don't get it fixed before the postseason they may, and at this point it's definitely a may, out-talent a team in the first round, but they're not getting out of the second round.

[JonFromVA]

Wade had 4 defensive rebounds and two forced jump balls (off of Sixers possessions) in 8 minutes. How is that invisible?

Moreover, the primary job of the 5th guy on floor is too space the floor for the four other starters who are very efficient when given any type of spacing. You don't want your less efficient players forcing the issue. That's stupid basketball. I promise you Doc was thrilled with Mobley's three point attempts and Stevens attempts. He was likely equally pleased with Mitchell jacking up contested threes early in the shot clock in the first half. Your opponent likes it when you play dumb. Makes it easier on them.

Wade's job is to space the floor and make an occasional back cut when the player defending him falls asleep. That's it. If he's only getting one or two attempts, it's either because his defender isn't leaving him, or we're doing a poor job of getting him the ball when he's open.

I can already see this becoming an issue with Danny Green as well. It's been an issue with Love in the past. The guys slotted on your roster to make open 3s have to get the ball when they're open. Not once, twice, or even three times, but at least four. The failure to do that is on the team, not the shooter.

When Wade's out there with Neto and Stevens or even Green, he's not the 5th guy on offense and he needs to hunt his shots a little bit. Or else you end up having Stevens do it.

If the guy out there to provide spacing isn't open on the perimeter because his defender isn't leaving him, he's done his job. If the other guys out there with him can't score with the spacing provided, then they shouldn't be out there.

If the guy there to provide spacing is open and his teammates just aren't getting him the ball, then his teammates, or the coaches, are the problem. I can't think of another team in the NBA that struggles as much as the Cavs in this area. It's basic stuff.

All I know is that if they don't get it fixed before the postseason they may, and at this point it's definitely a may, out-talent a team in the first round, but they're not getting out of the second round.

Fortunately no team is without flaws, and Garland, Mitchell, and Rubio are good enough to overcome lousy floor spacing.

Odds are we're going to get booted out of the playoffs because we're just not experienced enough.

But we shall see ...