2023 Playoffs Round 1: Cavs (4) / Knicks (5)

[ijspeelman]

I hate to see it, but this should be a fun and competitive series. Lots of questions on both sides and especially about injuries.

How long will Randle be out?

Will Okoro be back?

If I had to take a stab at guessing its conclusion, I will go Cavs in 6, but I definitely could see it ending sooner or swinging towards the Knicks.

[JujitsuFlip]

JB will make this series more difficult than it needs to be, that's my prediction.

[jasonxxx102]

I actually think the Knicks have a better chance without Randle. He’s much easier to defend for the Cavs

[ijspeelman]

Per the Athletic (https://theathletic.com/4385505/2023/04/06/cavs-lineups-isaac-okoro-void/), Okoro is dealing with a bone bruise in his left knee. They are keeping him available to play. These injuries slowly heal and can take 1 to 2 months, but you can safely return to basketball activities in weeks in certain cases.

In all honesty, though it lowers our chances in the series, I hope he sees zero minutes and returns when he more healthy. It would be better to lose this series with him out then win with him in and risk prolonged injuries down the road. For clarification, I think we can win without him personally, but if we were to disappoint and lose, I'd prefer it as opposed to bringing him in only for him to get hurt in the long run.

[JujitsuFlip]

Even with Okoro out, the Cavs should be able to beat the Knicks, strictly on talent.

Cavs have 4 of the 6 best players in the series.

[jasonxxx102]

Per the Athletic (https://theathletic.com/4385505/2023/04/06/cavs-lineups-isaac-okoro-void/), Okoro is dealing with a bone bruise in his left knee. They are keeping him available to play. These injuries slowly heal and can take 1 to 2 months, but you can safely return to basketball activities in weeks in certain cases.

In all honesty, though it lowers our chances in the series, I hope he sees zero minutes and returns when he more healthy. It would be better to lose this series with him out then win with him in and risk prolonged injuries down the road. For clarification, I think we can win without him personally, but if we were to disappoint and lose, I'd prefer it as opposed to bringing him in only for him to get hurt in the long run.

Totally disagree. A bone bruise isn't really risking long term injury. The Cavs likely aren't making it past the 2nd round anyways and a loss in the 1st would be a total disaster.

[ijspeelman]

Per the Athletic (https://theathletic.com/4385505/2023/04/06/cavs-lineups-isaac-okoro-void/), Okoro is dealing with a bone bruise in his left knee. They are keeping him available to play. These injuries slowly heal and can take 1 to 2 months, but you can safely return to basketball activities in weeks in certain cases.

In all honesty, though it lowers our chances in the series, I hope he sees zero minutes and returns when he more healthy. It would be better to lose this series with him out then win with him in and risk prolonged injuries down the road. For clarification, I think we can win without him personally, but if we were to disappoint and lose, I'd prefer it as opposed to bringing him in only for him to get hurt in the long run.

Totally disagree. A bone bruise isn't really risking long term injury. The Cavs likely aren't making it past the 2nd round anyways and a loss in the 1st would be a total disaster.

I think a 1st round loss with or without him is pretty disastrous, but if the guy can't move on the court and risks injuring himself more, we should probably let him heal even if its low risk of exacerbating.

What I assume they will do is wait and see if we go down a game or need him if it goes to a game 6 or 7. If that is what they do, lets hope the other guys can keep up. I do not foresee Brunson playing the entire series like the last game we played against them. If Okoro was on him, he still would have made tough shots imo, but possibly slightly less of them.

[JonFromVA]

On the bright side, it's going to be easier for us to survive missing Isaac than any other starter, and maybe just maybe Dean starts playing like he did early in the season before he got hurt.

Can JBB dust off Danny Green in these final 2 games just in case?

[jasonxxx102]

Per the Athletic (https://theathletic.com/4385505/2023/04/06/cavs-lineups-isaac-okoro-void/), Okoro is dealing with a bone bruise in his left knee. They are keeping him available to play. These injuries slowly heal and can take 1 to 2 months, but you can safely return to basketball activities in weeks in certain cases.

In all honesty, though it lowers our chances in the series, I hope he sees zero minutes and returns when he more healthy. It would be better to lose this series with him out then win with him in and risk prolonged injuries down the road. For clarification, I think we can win without him personally, but if we were to disappoint and lose, I'd prefer it as opposed to bringing him in only for him to get hurt in the long run.

Totally disagree. A bone bruise isn't really risking long term injury. The Cavs likely aren't making it past the 2nd round anyways and a loss in the 1st would be a total disaster.

I think a 1st round loss with or without him is pretty disastrous, but if the guy can't move on the court and risks injuring himself more, we should probably let him heal even if its low risk of exacerbating.

What I assume they will do is wait and see if we go down a game or need him if it goes to a game 6 or 7. If that is what they do, lets hope the other guys can keep up. I do not foresee Brunson playing the entire series like the last game we played against them. If Okoro was on him, he still would have made tough shots imo, but possibly slightly less of them.

I think the main difference between Isaac and the other wing defenders we have (specifically lamar) is that not only does he contest shots but he forces guys off their spots. A skill that basically no fans care about or pay attention to is getting around ball screens and Isaac really fights through them to force ball handlers into uncomfortable spots.

Going back to the last Knicks game, lamar was contesting well but he let Brunson get to wherever he wanted with ease. Hard to stop a guy (even with a good contest) when he’s in the flow of his game. Lamar was letting Brunson get to the middle of the floor without any physicality

[XxLeBronxShaqxX]

Per the Athletic (https://theathletic.com/4385505/2023/04/06/cavs-lineups-isaac-okoro-void/), Okoro is dealing with a bone bruise in his left knee. They are keeping him available to play. These injuries slowly heal and can take 1 to 2 months, but you can safely return to basketball activities in weeks in certain cases.

In all honesty, though it lowers our chances in the series, I hope he sees zero minutes and returns when he more healthy. It would be better to lose this series with him out then win with him in and risk prolonged injuries down the road. For clarification, I think we can win without him personally, but if we were to disappoint and lose, I'd prefer it as opposed to bringing him in only for him to get hurt in the long run.

Totally disagree. A bone bruise isn't really risking long term injury. The Cavs likely aren't making it past the 2nd round anyways and a loss in the 1st would be a total disaster.

I question whether or not a first round loss qualifies as "disastrous".

Let's really think about it for a moment.

The Knicks have our number this year and the Cavaliers have struggled against the more elite offensive teams in the league. Granted, if Randle isn't back and we still manage to lose, that's a different story.

Win or lose, it's great to see us back in the postseason, especially since the story for this team is just beginning. Sometimes disappointing and early playoff exits are how all the great teams start out.

[ijspeelman]

Totally disagree. A bone bruise isn't really risking long term injury. The Cavs likely aren't making it past the 2nd round anyways and a loss in the 1st would be a total disaster.

I think a 1st round loss with or without him is pretty disastrous, but if the guy can't move on the court and risks injuring himself more, we should probably let him heal even if its low risk of exacerbating.

What I assume they will do is wait and see if we go down a game or need him if it goes to a game 6 or 7. If that is what they do, lets hope the other guys can keep up. I do not foresee Brunson playing the entire series like the last game we played against them. If Okoro was on him, he still would have made tough shots imo, but possibly slightly less of them.

I think the main difference between Isaac and the other wing defenders we have (specifically lamar) is that not only does he contest shots but he forces guys off their spots. A skill that basically no fans care about or pay attention to is getting around ball screens and Isaac really fights through them to force ball handlers into uncomfortable spots.

Going back to the last Knicks game, lamar was contesting well but he let Brunson get to wherever he wanted with ease. Hard to stop a guy (even with a good contest) when he’s in the flow of his game. Lamar was letting Brunson get to the middle of the floor without any physicality

Okoro is easily our best perimeter defender and I agree that he is proficient in getting around screens which helps not let players get into pull-up threes or get easy paths to the lane. (I also think Stevens is not the best perimeter defender bc of this where is fine one-on-one). This is not a slight on Okoro, but we should be able to win the series w/out his defensive arsenal. Personally, I think LeVert has really stepped it up defensively and is our second best perimeter guy. He's got less of what Okoro has one-on-one and around screens, but not so much less that he's near a negative or even neutral.

I have nothing to back this up, but he might be the better off-ball defender? Don't quote me on this, but I like his play of the passing lanes a lot and I can't recollect a time where he isn't picking up the extra man for opponent perimeter shot opportunities.

[jasonxxx102]

Per the Athletic (https://theathletic.com/4385505/2023/04/06/cavs-lineups-isaac-okoro-void/), Okoro is dealing with a bone bruise in his left knee. They are keeping him available to play. These injuries slowly heal and can take 1 to 2 months, but you can safely return to basketball activities in weeks in certain cases.

In all honesty, though it lowers our chances in the series, I hope he sees zero minutes and returns when he more healthy. It would be better to lose this series with him out then win with him in and risk prolonged injuries down the road. For clarification, I think we can win without him personally, but if we were to disappoint and lose, I'd prefer it as opposed to bringing him in only for him to get hurt in the long run.

Totally disagree. A bone bruise isn't really risking long term injury. The Cavs likely aren't making it past the 2nd round anyways and a loss in the 1st would be a total disaster.

I question whether or not a first round loss qualifies as "disastrous".

Let's really think about it for a moment.

The Knicks have our number this year and the Cavaliers have struggled against the more elite offensive teams in the league. Granted, if Randle isn't back and we still manage to lose, that's a different story.

Win or lose, it's great to see us back in the postseason, especially since the story for this team is just beginning. Sometimes disappointing and early playoff exits are how all the great teams start out.

I would be inclined to agree with you if we didn’t trade for Mitchell and this was organic. A 1st round out with this much talent would be a total disaster end to an otherwise really positive season.

It’s a little less of a disaster if Okoro can’t go because that just solidifies how valuable he is to this team but still.

I sure hope JB and Donovan can get these guys prepared for a playoff series. JB has no championship and very little playoff experience so we will see

[jasonxxx102]

I think a 1st round loss with or without him is pretty disastrous, but if the guy can't move on the court and risks injuring himself more, we should probably let him heal even if its low risk of exacerbating.

What I assume they will do is wait and see if we go down a game or need him if it goes to a game 6 or 7. If that is what they do, lets hope the other guys can keep up. I do not foresee Brunson playing the entire series like the last game we played against them. If Okoro was on him, he still would have made tough shots imo, but possibly slightly less of them.

I think the main difference between Isaac and the other wing defenders we have (specifically lamar) is that not only does he contest shots but he forces guys off their spots. A skill that basically no fans care about or pay attention to is getting around ball screens and Isaac really fights through them to force ball handlers into uncomfortable spots.

Going back to the last Knicks game, lamar was contesting well but he let Brunson get to wherever he wanted with ease. Hard to stop a guy (even with a good contest) when he’s in the flow of his game. Lamar was letting Brunson get to the middle of the floor without any physicality

Okoro is easily our best perimeter defender and I agree that he is proficient in getting around screens which helps not let players get into pull-up threes or get easy paths to the lane. (I also think Stevens is not the best perimeter defender bc of this where is fine one-on-one). This is not a slight on Okoro, but we should be able to win the series w/out his defensive arsenal. Personally, I think LeVert has really stepped it up defensively and is our second best perimeter guy. He's got less of what Okoro has one-on-one and around screens, but not so much less that he's near a negative or even neutral.

I have nothing to back this up, but he might be the better off-ball defender? Don't quote me on this, but I like his play of the passing lanes a lot and I can't recollect a time where he isn't picking up the extra man for opponent perimeter shot opportunities.

Without looking and just based on anecdote, I’d agree with you about Caris being better off ball. He does seem to have a knack for jumping lanes.

I don’t think Lamar is that great on the perimeter. Dean wade is fine defensively but certainly not a guy you want playing the 3 defensively for long stretches.

Caris has really grown on me over the course of the season. The shot selection is questionable but the guy gives 110% effort no matter what. Gotta love guys like that

[XxLeBronxShaqxX]

Totally disagree. A bone bruise isn't really risking long term injury. The Cavs likely aren't making it past the 2nd round anyways and a loss in the 1st would be a total disaster.

I question whether or not a first round loss qualifies as "disastrous".

Let's really think about it for a moment.

The Knicks have our number this year and the Cavaliers have struggled against the more elite offensive teams in the league. Granted, if Randle isn't back and we still manage to lose, that's a different story.

Win or lose, it's great to see us back in the postseason, especially since the story for this team is just beginning. Sometimes disappointing and early playoff exits are how all the great teams start out.

I would be inclined to agree with you if we didn’t trade for Mitchell and this was organic. A 1st round out with this much talent would be a total disaster end to an otherwise really positive season.

It’s a little less of a disaster if Okoro can’t go because that just solidifies how valuable he is to this team but still.

I sure hope JB and Donovan can get these guys prepared for a playoff series. JB has no championship and very little playoff experience so we will see

I have mixed feelings on this.

One on hand, I really REALLY hated the Mitchell trade (although to play the devils advocate, Mitchell's been excellent as the number one option and has surprised me as a defender). So yes, with everything that we have given up and how much Utah has gained in just the talent department alone (Lauri and Ochai have been been excellent in my opinion and are exactly what Cleveland would have needed all things considered), and especially when you consider the fact that New York wanted Mitchell in the first place and we bamboozled them, I could see why one would think that losing to the Knicks of all teams would be considered a slap in the face.

But does a first round exit spell the end of our story? Nah. Cleveland's made big strides this season and Mobley's incredible second half of the season (based on what I've seen, a lot of people seem to hold that same opinion on this site) gives us a lot to be excited about in the future. We're a 50 win team this season with two of our three best players being 23 and 21 years of age.

Now, if Cleveland's a first round exit again the following season after improving their record again, then I'll be concerned. But I seriously doubt we're going to have a deep playoff run this season, so I have no issues with losing early. But I know that there are other people out there who don't want this to happen. For the sake of the team and you guys as well, I really do hope we get past the Knicks at the very least and manage to put up a good fight in the second round. But only time will tell.

[El Hespiritu]

Someone knows how 'linde finalizada' goes in English?

Translation is a tricky thing.

[jasonxxx102]

Someone knows how 'linde finalizada' goes in English?

Translation is a tricky thing.

What is the context? I’m not a native Spanish speaker but my best guess is “the beginning of the end” maybe like the downfall? La caida?

The literal translation makes no sense to me so this was just a guess. Without context I have no idea

[El Hespiritu]

I tried with 'dead end' but not exactly the same: it's not a 'cul-de-sac' but a pointless path.

Just like when some sport club president who owns a construction enterprise gets some billions from public money to build a highway that actually drives nowhere.

Never mind... I'll eventually figure it out.

Going on topic: I'll spare my thoughts about Knicks 'til past tomorrow because I'm now too busy scouting Hornets.

Cholismo creed has dire conditions for true believers.
One of them is we're not allowed to even think about a concrete game (or serie) if there is yet another game before.

Of course we (all faithful ones) are constantly breaking this dogma because we're human and sinners.
But I try my best.

[JonFromVA]

I question whether or not a first round loss qualifies as "disastrous".

Let's really think about it for a moment.

The Knicks have our number this year and the Cavaliers have struggled against the more elite offensive teams in the league. Granted, if Randle isn't back and we still manage to lose, that's a different story.

Win or lose, it's great to see us back in the postseason, especially since the story for this team is just beginning. Sometimes disappointing and early playoff exits are how all the great teams start out.

I would be inclined to agree with you if we didn’t trade for Mitchell and this was organic. A 1st round out with this much talent would be a total disaster end to an otherwise really positive season.

It’s a little less of a disaster if Okoro can’t go because that just solidifies how valuable he is to this team but still.

I sure hope JB and Donovan can get these guys prepared for a playoff series. JB has no championship and very little playoff experience so we will see

I have mixed feelings on this.

One on hand, I really REALLY hated the Mitchell trade (although to play the devils advocate, Mitchell's been excellent as the number one option and has surprised me as a defender). So yes, with everything that we have given up and how much Utah has gained in just the talent department alone (Lauri and Ochai have been been excellent in my opinion and are exactly what Cleveland would have needed all things considered), and especially when you consider the fact that New York wanted Mitchell in the first place and we bamboozled them, I could see why one would think that losing to the Knicks of all teams would be considered a slap in the face.

But does a first round exit spell the end of our story? Nah. Cleveland's made big strides this season and Mobley's incredible second half of the season (based on what I've seen, a lot of people seem to hold that same opinion on this site) gives us a lot to be excited about in the future. We're a 50 win team this season with two of our three best players being 23 and 21 years of age.

Now, if Cleveland's a first round exit again the following season after improving their record again, then I'll be concerned. But I seriously doubt we're going to have a deep playoff run this season, so I have no issues with losing early. But I know that there are other people out there who don't want this to happen. For the sake of the team and you guys as well, I really do hope we get past the Knicks at the very least and manage to put up a good fight in the second round. But only time will tell.

Realistically this is a 4v5 matchup, the Knicks have been playing slightly better than us since the All-Star, and someone pointed out they have a better record against above .500 teams. These are both try-hard teams playing for try-hard coaches.

So, it won't be anything tragic if we lose in the first round. It's still just our first step in to the playoffs, and we all know this roster is going to need time to incubate and fill out.

But if they want to start getting their act in gear right now, I sure won't be complaining.

[SunsRback4Good]

Cavs in 6 should not surprise anyone. The Knicks will fight hard but Mitchell will be too much to handle. The Cavs front court also a massive advantage as Knicks have nobody to counter attack it.

[JonFromVA]

It's going to be important to keep Mitchell Robinson off the offensive boards.