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Post mortem 2022-23

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Post mortem 2022-23 

Post#1 » by jbk1234 » Thu Apr 27, 2023 1:15 pm

Where to from here?

Do we keep JBB?

Do we do the unthinkable and consider trading Mitchell?

Do we trade Allen and attempt to open up the floor more?

Do we just run it back and attempt to sign some shooters with the MLE?

Do we retain LeVert, and if so, how high do we go?

Is there a chance that Altman's seat it getting a little warm?


Personally, I think JBB's limitation were badly exposed this series and the Cavs need to think about ripping off the bandaid. I do want to see how the Knicks perform in the next round as I suspect, but don't know for certain, that this series has a lot to do with them peaking in the postseason.
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Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Post mortem 2022-22 

Post#2 » by ijspeelman » Thu Apr 27, 2023 1:51 pm

Where to from here?

Multiple things need to occur. Some visible growth by our core 4. Our defense was great and I think people may be harping too much on the guards defense which I think was much improved this year. Its all about that offense.

We need either some more two way guys or some more guys that lean offense. Our offense is highly exploitable and we need to change that with more dynamic offensive players which in turn should help us turn around a better offensive system.

Do we keep JBB?

I still think this is up in the air, but I wouldn't be surprised either way.

Do we do the unthinkable and consider trading Mitchell?

Not during the off-season or next season. We knew going into this season that this team wasn't a finished product. I feel like we still have two more go's at this before we wrap up this chapter if its going poorly.

Do we trade Allen and attempt to open up the floor more?

I've gone back and forth with this. I am trying not to overreact to the product we just saw against the Knicks. That wasn't Jarrett Allen out there, but it was the only version we've seen of him in the playoffs. I'd like to go back and see what he specifically did wrong in the series and if it was more than just a bad series.

Do we just run it back and attempt to sign some shooters with the MLE?

Probably.

Do we retain LeVert, and if so, how high do we go?

I would be shocked if we didn't attempt to retain LeVert. I doubt he's making more than Sexton did in Utah so maybe the 9-12mil per year range? He has injury concerns as well. All things considered, LeVert is a valuable piece of our wing core (even though no one wants to admit it right now).

Is there a chance that Altman's seat it getting a little warm?

I wouldn't consider his seat hot, but maybe the fire is starting to be made. He made the big move last offseason and then didn't have a lot of pieces to work with after that. I'd say he's done well in his tenure so far and we have a few big question marks that we need to see out.
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Re: Post mortem 2022-22 

Post#3 » by ijspeelman » Thu Apr 27, 2023 2:13 pm

Also, shoutout Isaac Okoro who convinced me this season (in the second half of the regular season and a bit during these playoffs) that we need to keep this guy long term.

He may not actually end up being our starter, but he's a valuable member of our core group of guys.
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Re: Post mortem 2022-22 

Post#4 » by jasonxxx102 » Thu Apr 27, 2023 2:26 pm

Where to from here?

I think Mitchell and Garland are what they are. Maybe some improvements around the edges but we know what we've got. Neither guy is good enough to be a 1a on a contender but I don't mind the pairing. Way too early to give up on that. I soured on Allen very quickly. Mobley needs to take a HUGE leap offensively next season. I want him in the gym all season working on offense, jumpers, post moves, footwork, ball handling. All summer, no vacations, no nothing. Put in the work to be great. I'd also like to see him add maybe 10 more pounds and for the love of everything figure out how to get mean. This whole quiet nice guy thing ain't gonna work.

Do we keep JBB?

I've been very vocal and felt this way more of the season. His offense sucks. You have a team full of young guys and a couple athletic bigs why the hell are you the slowest team in the league? There's no flow, there's no system, we run PnR in my rec league. I was saying it near the end of the season and I was spot on that this offense would get exposed for what it really was when a team had a chance to game plan for it.

Do we do the unthinkable and consider trading Mitchell?

Not yet. I think he can be an electric 25ppg+ scorer who can get you buckets and you need a guy like that. I don't think garland will ever be as good of a scorer as Mitchell.

Do we trade Allen and attempt to open up the floor more?

As I said above, I soured on him quite a bit, especially in the playoffs. Dude, you're soft as hell. You got bullied by every single knicks player on the floor. You got out rebounded by JOSH HART. cmon bruh. In his current form, Allen is unplayable in the playoffs. If you're not gonna rebound and not gonna score, what are you doing? He's definitely got value I just don't know what you can get for him. If you're gonna move him you better be getting another big or a big wing / forward. Otherwise I guess sign a vet big and try to be more creative with him

Do we just run it back and attempt to sign some shooters with the MLE?

That's my worst nightmare. I'm a lifelong Clevelander so obviously the Cavs are my team but there are so many other fun teams to watch and great basketball that if all we do is run it back I'm not going to be as interested in this team, especially if we keep JB.

Do we retain LeVert, and if so, how high do we go?

I wouldn't hate it. I know he got a lot of hate in the regular season but he was like the only guy who really played his heart out this series. I'd be fine if you could get him in the mid teens per year. but if it's gonna take 20m/yr? hell no

Is there a chance that Altman's seat it getting a little warm?

Yes if he doesn't make any moves this offseason
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Re: Post mortem 2022-22 

Post#5 » by JujitsuFlip » Thu Apr 27, 2023 4:40 pm

Do we keep JB?

-Sadly, i think so. Dude was completely useless in the playoffs this season and the play-in last season. He is what he is, after 4 seasons I know he is the Cavs equivalent of Mark Jackson/Brett Brown, the sooner the front office figures this out, the better.

Do we do the unthinkable and consider trading Mitchell?

-I would say no, because his value is probably down a bit but boy would it be nice to trade him for 2 starting caliber players. I'd try to get Bridges and DFS, ik the Nets would never do that but those 2 would compliment Garland and Mobley so well.

Do we trade Allen and attempt to open up the floor more?

-I don't think so, Mobley is not ready to make that jump to 5 yet but if a team had a starting caliber SF they wanted to give us for him, Cavs gotta at least listen.

Do we just run it back and attempt to sign some shooters with the MLE?

-Most likely, the full MLE should bring in a decent 3&D wing at SF. It is gonna be getting that back-up big with the BAE or TPE that is going to prove tricky. Because whichever exception is leftover has to go to another wing that can fill in for when any of the core 4 are just absolutely unplayable due to matchups/foul trouble/health.

Do we retain LeVert, and if so, how high do we go?

-I mean, at this point Cedi will be guaranteed and they have to make an honest effort to re-sign LeVert, assuming he isn't asking for the moon. Being an UFA though he could leave for nothing, hopefully at least facilitate a S&T if that is his mindset to get some sort of return asset.

Is there a chance that Altman's seat it getting a little warm?

-Oh, I doubt it. He can fire the GM and head coach before the blame ever rises to his level. He has a very simple task in front of him on paper. The issue is, if he retains JB then he really needs to work closely with JB on who he signs with the MLE and BAE, who he trades for with the TPE, and who he drafts with the 49th pick. Koby could go out and get 3 or 4 absolute studs to compliment the core 4, and if JB is only willing to play a 6 or 7 man rotation the point is moot. If JB is going to stay the head coach, he needs to drive all 4 acquisitions so we know he will play the new guys. Outside of game 2 he hardly used Green and Merrill didn't sniff the floor all series, these 2 dudes coulda helped alleviate the absolute stranglehold the Knicks had on the paint.
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Re: Post mortem 2022-23 

Post#6 » by jbk1234 » Thu Apr 27, 2023 5:36 pm

Where to from here?

I want to see how the Knicks perform going forward. I think there's a non-zero chance they actually get to the Finals. Brunson and Randle, both potent offensively, are the worst defenders they have 1-9 (Toppins is meh) which is just an embarrassment of riches. Thibs is a good coach. I think the Sixers have the best chance of knocking them out just because of how Embiid and Harden are officiated by the league. But if the Celtics win a long series with Philly, the Knicks could shock some people.

Do we keep JBB?

I think you have to identify a better offensive coach who's available before you seriously consider the option. But there needs to be a very candid conversation about finding the right spacing versus defense balance with his rotations, and if he's not receptive, then he's got to go. Also, if what we just watched was Luke Walton's idea of a good offense, he needs to be replaced.


Do we do the unthinkable and consider trading Mitchell?

There's only two teams who could put together packages that make sense, the Pelicans and Nets. I'd like to give it another year, but I worry about having to move him as a rental a year from now, his long-term fit with Garland, and frankly, whether Mobley's growth curve is longer than Mitchell's current deal.

Do we trade Allen and attempt to open up the floor more?

I don't think it's possible to win an Allen trade. If the Raptors want to do something like a Poeltl/O.G. for Allen/LeVert double S&T sure, but I'm skeptical that's in the cards.

Now what does need to happen is Allen's minutes need to be scaled back, JBB needs to understand that's not a request, and the F.O. needs to bring in a better option than RoLo in terms of providing real minutes.
.
Do we just run it back and attempt to sign some shooters with the MLE?

I think with some minor coaching adjustments and the right pickups in FA, we can unlock our offense and score a lot more. This is the safest route and most likely IMO.

Do we retain LeVert, and if so, how high do we go?

To me, this gets back to the Mitchell question. I'm not sure I go much higher than an MLE. His trade value in the last year of his current deal was very meh.

Is there a chance that Altman's seat it getting a little warm?

Not yet. I think. I'd rather give Altman the opportunity to right the ship than try to bring in someone who might just start shipping off key guys without regard to the half a decade's worth of picks we owe.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Post mortem 2022-23 

Post#7 » by ijspeelman » Thu Apr 27, 2023 5:37 pm

Do you think Cavs have already reached out to Nick Nurse to see if he'd be interested?
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Re: Post mortem 2022-23 

Post#8 » by jbk1234 » Thu Apr 27, 2023 5:42 pm

ijspeelman wrote:Do you think Cavs have already reached out to Nick Nurse to see if he'd be interested?



I hope not. I have no interest in replacing JBB with a JBB replica in terms of his flaws. I think that JBB will be more amenable to making adjustments.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Post mortem 2022-23 

Post#9 » by ijspeelman » Thu Apr 27, 2023 5:48 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
ijspeelman wrote:Do you think Cavs have already reached out to Nick Nurse to see if he'd be interested?



I hope not. I have no interest in replacing JBB with a JBB replica in terms of his flaws. I think that JBB will be more amenable to making adjustments.


With the coaches that are available, who would you want to see? Or would we try to pick-up an assistant from a championship level team?

I personally like me some Nick Nurse, though if we got him everyone should prepare for the starters being played even more than they were lol.
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Re: Post mortem 2022-23 

Post#10 » by jasonxxx102 » Thu Apr 27, 2023 5:55 pm

ijspeelman wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
ijspeelman wrote:Do you think Cavs have already reached out to Nick Nurse to see if he'd be interested?



I hope not. I have no interest in replacing JBB with a JBB replica in terms of his flaws. I think that JBB will be more amenable to making adjustments.


With the coaches that are available, who would you want to see? Or would we try to pick-up an assistant from a championship level team?

I personally like me some Nick Nurse, though if we got him everyone should prepare for the starters being played even more than they were lol.


I bet you could get Kenny Atkinson. Significantly better offensive coach, familiar with Allen & Levert. Lots of legit NBA experience + exp as a HC.
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Re: Post mortem 2022-23 

Post#11 » by jbk1234 » Thu Apr 27, 2023 5:58 pm

ijspeelman wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
ijspeelman wrote:Do you think Cavs have already reached out to Nick Nurse to see if he'd be interested?



I hope not. I have no interest in replacing JBB with a JBB replica in terms of his flaws. I think that JBB will be more amenable to making adjustments.


With the coaches that are available, who would you want to see? Or would we try to pick-up an assistant from a championship level team?

I personally like me some Nick Nurse, though if we got him everyone should prepare for the starters being played even more than they were lol.


Nick Nurse was notorious for overplaying starters, crappy offensive sets where FVV hijacked the offense, and being unable to get the Raptors ill-fitting pieces to perform as a unit. Seriously, why even let JBB go if Nurse is the replacement.

I think you let the playoffs finish up and see who shakes lose. But really, if you're not bringing in a guy who is known for running good offenses, I just don't see the point. I'd rather thrust an offensive coordinator upon JBB.
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Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Post mortem 2022-23 

Post#12 » by ijspeelman » Thu Apr 27, 2023 8:39 pm

If Bucks get rid of Bud, do we want to swoop in and grab him?
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Re: Post mortem 2022-23 

Post#13 » by jbk1234 » Thu Apr 27, 2023 9:16 pm

jasonxxx102 wrote:
ijspeelman wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:

I hope not. I have no interest in replacing JBB with a JBB replica in terms of his flaws. I think that JBB will be more amenable to making adjustments.


With the coaches that are available, who would you want to see? Or would we try to pick-up an assistant from a championship level team?

I personally like me some Nick Nurse, though if we got him everyone should prepare for the starters being played even more than they were lol.


I bet you could get Kenny Atkinson. Significantly better offensive coach, familiar with Allen & Levert. Lots of legit NBA experience + exp as a HC.


IF you can get Atkinson, then you walk down the hall and tell Gilbert he's got pay JBB the next four years not to coach the Cavs. I'm skeptical you could though.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Post mortem 2022-23 

Post#14 » by toooskies » Thu Apr 27, 2023 9:36 pm

Where to from here?
Into the offseason, luckily with the cover that the Bucks were much bigger failures than we were.

Do we keep JBB?
JBB was dealt a bad hand and then played it poorly. The roster wasn't ready for the playoffs. Blame Altman for not having a third trusted big on the roster but blame JBB for the souring relationship with Love, the failing to prepare Wade to be playable, for moving away from Stevens, for investing in Okoro all year just to yank him in the playoffs, for thinking he could count on Rubio and Green when they're just not physically there. By the time the playoffs came he was flailing around searching for options when he should've had a plan.

I haven't been in favor of letting him go, but I tell you what, it wouldn't be the worst thing.

Do we do the unthinkable and consider trading Mitchell?
It's totally thinkable. I wouldn't shop him but he's obtainable for the right price. The combination of he and Garland in the starting lineup make it so that your SF really needs to be great at 3 AND D, and as we've seen, that's not easy to find. So trading him for a better fitting wing star and more depth would be something I wouldn't hate.

I'd rather trade him than Garland or Mobley.

Do we trade Allen and attempt to open up the floor more?
This is possible but it's also hard to actually execute. As constituted, the Cavs have only two good big men-- Allen and Mobley. If you trade Allen, you've got to replace him with a 4 or a 5. That probably means you need to trade Allen straight up for a stretch big or a wing and a big at the same time while getting another big in free agency.

Another question is how you think Mobley will develop in the next two years. Does he develop an outside shot? Can he reliably initiate offense? Or is he just an above-average-skilled big who flashes talent but has a ceiling? If you're bearish on his offensive development, you should probably sell on either him or Allen.

Do we just run it back and attempt to sign some shooters with the MLE?
We need a shooter who can play the 4 and rebound so that we can play big but still give room to Mobley (and Allen) inside on offense. Maybe that player doesn't start, but they're an important pivot depending on how the series goes.

We need Theoretical Dean Wade and/or Theoretical Dylan Windler. We need 2021-22 Kevin Love.

Do we retain LeVert, and if so, how high do we go?
I don't think we have any chance at taking the next steps to contention if we only have six or seven viable playoff players on the roster and we let one of them walk in free agency. That means either retaining LeVert at a not-prohibitive price or sign-and-trading him for a different viable playoff player.

I don't see the other offers for him coming in all that high but LeVert has the leverage here.
Is there a chance that Altman's seat it getting a little warm?
It's been a brutal year with lots of small bad decisions.
- Let's start off with extending Darius Garland for the full 5 years with no player option. No complaints here, but it's not all that impressive to offer a guy the most guaranteed money possible and have him take it.
- Made Ricky Rubio and his torn ACL the priority signing of last offseason. The other signings-- Lopez and Neto-- didn't make the floor in the playoffs outside of garbage time. Although Rubio wasn't about this season, he sure didn't look good all year.
- Extended Dean Wade. Looked like a deal for the first month of the season. Looked scared by the end. Let's hope it pays off next year.
- Played hardball with Sexton, refusing to sign him to a fair contract. Smart-ish? It made economic sense, but if the Mitchell trade doesn't materialize then this could have blown up.
- Traded the farm for Mitchell, which was exciting and seemed like reasonable value at the time but continues to look worse with the outcomes of the season.
- Went into the season with a 6-man competition for the starting SF job. If you think you might have six closely-matched candidates for a job, you probably have no viable candidates for the job.
- Did not add anybody at the deadline, preferring the options already on the roster, despite Wade never looking good after his injury and with Lamar Stevens lineups failing to rebound. I did not have Danny Green as the best potentially available big man on the market.
- Didn't trade Love at the deadline despite him being planted on the bench.
- Let Love walk while only paying back a little bit of his nearly $9m in owed salary when he asked for a buyout.
- Did not find a big man on the buyout market after we parted with Love, leaving the big man depth pretty shaky.
- Did not add Diakite to the postseason roster despite us bringing him in to play PF when we realized Wade and Stevens weren't cutting it, and our first round matchup involving a roster with several big men. (We knew Windler was down with another sprain and realistically his contract rights mean nothing right now, it would have been really logical.)
- Paid Danny Green $2m to take four shots in 40 minutes in the playoffs while having to be hidden on defense.
- Signed Sam Merrill, who didn't make the floor in the playoffs. I guess we get to have a 27 year-old short wing borderline NBA player on the roster next year?

What I see here is a bunch of "forward-thinking" moves that look fine in isolation but totally ignored the present. You need players for this year. You need more than two playable bigs. You need wing shooting. You need depth. You throw in some boneheaded decisions the year before (LeVert trade, Hartenstein RFA nonsense) and you're just not in a good spot.
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Re: Post mortem 2022-23 

Post#15 » by cavs4872 » Thu Apr 27, 2023 11:04 pm

I'm not opposed to the Mitchell trade cause we need other assets more than him, and it's also addition by subtraction too, cause Mobley needs to at least be the second option on a team to develop to who we want him to. Mitchell for the coveted 3&D we seek, as well as the additional impact big man (if it's even doable, cause at this point it might not).

So Garland as the primary option, Mobley second, and either the best player we get for Mitchell, or the wildcard LeVert, third.

Mitchell + Garland + LeVert just seems so redundant and unnecessary when we have glaring holes on our roster that need to be addressed, as well as considering LeVert is a guy capable of going out and getting 40.
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Re: Post mortem 2022-23 

Post#16 » by jbk1234 » Fri Apr 28, 2023 3:49 am

cavs4872 wrote:I'm not opposed to the Mitchell trade cause we need other assets more than him, and it's also addition by subtraction too, cause Mobley needs to at least be the second option on a team to develop to who we want him to. Mitchell for the coveted 3&D we seek, as well as the additional impact big man (if it's even doable, cause at this point it might not).

So Garland as the primary option, Mobley second, and either the best player we get for Mitchell, or the wildcard LeVert, third.

Mitchell + Garland + LeVert just seems so redundant and unnecessary when we have glaring holes on our roster that need to be addressed, as well as considering LeVert is a guy capable of going out and getting 40.



I don't think you can just proclaim Mobley a second option because that's who you want him to be. He actually has to develop a skill set to be a second option on a good team. That could take years and he may never get there. You can do things to help him develop that we're not necessarily doing, but if he ends as a third option and an annual DPOY candidate, I'll be happy with that. If we trade Mitchell, we need at least a second option coming back.

LeVert getting 40 rarely happens. Like once or twice a season. You can't count on that. There's a very large sample size on LeVert and he's no longer a young player. The improved 3 point shooting and attention to defense are the only reasons I'd consider bringing him back, but they need to be careful with the contract. Again, his trade value on an expiring deal at his current number was decidedly meh. It won't get better if we overpay him.
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Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Post mortem 2022-23 

Post#17 » by KuruptedCav » Fri Apr 28, 2023 4:31 am

jbk1234 wrote:Where to from here?

Do we keep JBB?

Do we do the unthinkable and consider trading Mitchell?

Do we trade Allen and attempt to open up the floor more?

Do we just run it back and attempt to sign some shooters with the MLE?

Do we retain LeVert, and if so, how high do we go?

Is there a chance that Altman's seat it getting a little warm?


Personally, I think JBB's limitation were badly exposed this series and the Cavs need to think about ripping off the bandaid. I do want to see how the Knicks perform in the next round as I suspect, but don't know for certain, that this series has a lot to do with them peaking in the postseason.

1) Cavs keep JBB. While I don’t agree with the idea that he will improve, he’s had enough success to earn the right to develop.

2) Mitchell doesn’t get traded. The timing and cost of the trade put the Cavs behind the 8-ball last year. Gotta give it at least one run without tying the team’s hands behind their backs. The value delta between this off-season and next off-season is marginal.

3) Allen trade makes some sense, but I think he stays because the number of teams looking for a traditional center who have a SF they are willing to part with us small.

4) This is what I expect to happen. They’ll burn their MLE and BAE and add marginal contributors who don’t move the needle.

5) Much to my chagrin, they need to retain LeVert. He’s the only player 3-5 who can create a shot.

6) Zero heat.

7) I’m keeping an eye on the Clippers. They could want to save some cash and move a wing…


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Re: Post mortem 2022-23 

Post#18 » by jbk1234 » Fri Apr 28, 2023 4:44 am

KuruptedCav wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:Where to from here?

Do we keep JBB?

Do we do the unthinkable and consider trading Mitchell?

Do we trade Allen and attempt to open up the floor more?

Do we just run it back and attempt to sign some shooters with the MLE?

Do we retain LeVert, and if so, how high do we go?

Is there a chance that Altman's seat it getting a little warm?


Personally, I think JBB's limitation were badly exposed this series and the Cavs need to think about ripping off the bandaid. I do want to see how the Knicks perform in the next round as I suspect, but don't know for certain, that this series has a lot to do with them peaking in the postseason.

1) Cavs keep JBB. While I don’t agree with the idea that he will improve, he’s had enough success to earn the right to develop.

2) Mitchell doesn’t get traded. The timing and cost of the trade put the Cavs behind the 8-ball last year. Gotta give it at least one run without tying the team’s hands behind their backs. The value delta between this off-season and next off-season is marginal.

3) Allen trade makes some sense, but I think he stays because the number of teams looking for a traditional center who have a SF they are willing to part with us small.

4) This is what I expect to happen. They’ll burn their MLE and BAE and add marginal contributors who don’t move the needle.

5) Much to my chagrin, they need to retain LeVert. He’s the only player 3-5 who can create a shot.

6) Zero heat.

7) I’m keeping an eye on the Clippers. They could want to save some cash and move a wing…


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Kennard was the only guy on the Clippers who interested me. Batum looked washed as a starter. Covington couldn't even beat out Batum. He's been out of the rotation all season. Neither PG or Leonard can stay healthy and they make $50M each so you'd be hard pressed to find a deal that made sense.

Also, I strongly disagree that Mitchell's trade value won't be significantly diminished if we find ourselves in a similar position a year from now.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
KuruptedCav
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Re: Post mortem 2022-23 

Post#19 » by KuruptedCav » Fri Apr 28, 2023 12:56 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
KuruptedCav wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:Where to from here?

Do we keep JBB?

Do we do the unthinkable and consider trading Mitchell?

Do we trade Allen and attempt to open up the floor more?

Do we just run it back and attempt to sign some shooters with the MLE?

Do we retain LeVert, and if so, how high do we go?

Is there a chance that Altman's seat it getting a little warm?


Personally, I think JBB's limitation were badly exposed this series and the Cavs need to think about ripping off the bandaid. I do want to see how the Knicks perform in the next round as I suspect, but don't know for certain, that this series has a lot to do with them peaking in the postseason.

1) Cavs keep JBB. While I don’t agree with the idea that he will improve, he’s had enough success to earn the right to develop.

2) Mitchell doesn’t get traded. The timing and cost of the trade put the Cavs behind the 8-ball last year. Gotta give it at least one run without tying the team’s hands behind their backs. The value delta between this off-season and next off-season is marginal.

3) Allen trade makes some sense, but I think he stays because the number of teams looking for a traditional center who have a SF they are willing to part with us small.

4) This is what I expect to happen. They’ll burn their MLE and BAE and add marginal contributors who don’t move the needle.

5) Much to my chagrin, they need to retain LeVert. He’s the only player 3-5 who can create a shot.

6) Zero heat.

7) I’m keeping an eye on the Clippers. They could want to save some cash and move a wing…


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Kennard was the only guy on the Clippers who interested me. Batum looked washed as a starter. Covington couldn't even beat out Batum. He's been out of the rotation all season. Neither PG or Leonard can stay healthy and they make $50M each so you'd be hard pressed to find a deal that made sense.

Also, I strongly disagree that Mitchell's trade value won't be significantly diminished if we find ourselves in a similar position a year from now.

That discounts the value of Mitchell the player playing for the Cavs in 2023/24.

You’re equating spending $50 on gas with dropping $50 on the ground simply because at the end of the day you have $50 less.


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jbk1234
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Re: Post mortem 2022-23 

Post#20 » by jbk1234 » Fri Apr 28, 2023 1:46 pm

KuruptedCav wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
KuruptedCav wrote:1) Cavs keep JBB. While I don’t agree with the idea that he will improve, he’s had enough success to earn the right to develop.

2) Mitchell doesn’t get traded. The timing and cost of the trade put the Cavs behind the 8-ball last year. Gotta give it at least one run without tying the team’s hands behind their backs. The value delta between this off-season and next off-season is marginal.

3) Allen trade makes some sense, but I think he stays because the number of teams looking for a traditional center who have a SF they are willing to part with us small.

4) This is what I expect to happen. They’ll burn their MLE and BAE and add marginal contributors who don’t move the needle.

5) Much to my chagrin, they need to retain LeVert. He’s the only player 3-5 who can create a shot.

6) Zero heat.

7) I’m keeping an eye on the Clippers. They could want to save some cash and move a wing…


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Kennard was the only guy on the Clippers who interested me. Batum looked washed as a starter. Covington couldn't even beat out Batum. He's been out of the rotation all season. Neither PG or Leonard can stay healthy and they make $50M each so you'd be hard pressed to find a deal that made sense.

Also, I strongly disagree that Mitchell's trade value won't be significantly diminished if we find ourselves in a similar position a year from now.

That discounts the value of Mitchell the player playing for the Cavs in 2023/24.

You’re equating spending $50 on gas with dropping $50 on the ground simply because at the end of the day you have $50 less.


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Tbh, my faith in a Garland/Mitchell backcourt is a little shaken atm. I'm not seeing the type of offensive synergy one would hope for and we just saw the problem with trying to hide both of them on the defensive end. Now, could we fix the offensive problems with F.A. shooters and bringing in a guy like Atkinson? Possibly. Are we going to do the latter? Probably not.

If Jon is right, and the Cavs are taking a long-view here and willing to give JBB at least one more season, then the added value of Mitchell for one more season might not be worth the opportunity costs in terms of what you'll get in return a year from now. Also, my feelings as to how high the Cavs should go to retain LeVert will be dependent upon whether Mitchell is still here and who might come back in a trade.

You don't want to panic, but it's important to be clear-eyed about the potential downsides of inaction.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.

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