2023-24 Regular Season

[JujitsuFlip]

I'm not disputing that he can become an RFA, what I'm questioning is is whether it matters. For instance, the paragraph you quoted didn't mention the Gilbert Arenas rule, yet we're all aware it exists and limits how much teams can offer a restricted free agent.

Or maybe Forbes is clueless and Altman doesn't give a **** about losing Bates?

I just suspect there's something else neither of us have dug up yet (and I'm not wasting a whole lot of time trying because the CBA is just annoying).

The Gilbert Arenas rule is exactly why the Cavs would be able to match Bates' offer sheet, in the hypothetical. I'm just saying with extending Mitchell, extending Mobley, and Okoro's RFA idk how high on the list adding a Bates offer sheet for 2 or 3 years would be.

Ideally we want cheap players with potential to fill out the roster like we've done with Dean, Sam, and now Craig.

From the Cavs POV, they may prefer to keep Emoni in the g-league for another year, and then sign him to a similar deal. I suppose we'll just have to see how it plays out.

Yeah it'll all be decided by March 4th. Because if they bring Bates up to the main roster, i assume they will want to back fill his 2 way slot.

[KuruptedCav]

Shouldn’t the Cavs still have Bates draft rights?

I was under the impression that Bates got the non-guaranteed minimum salary tender and per the norm, rejected it in exchange for the guarantees of the 2-way deal.

Basically, draft and stash for domestic players…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JujitsuFlip]

Shouldn’t the Cavs still have Bates draft rights?

I was under the impression that Bates got the non-guaranteed minimum salary tender and per the norm, rejected it in exchange for the guarantees of the 2-way deal.

Basically, draft and stash for domestic players…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I mean he is stashed for 1 season but his camp musta pushed for a 1 year two-way because CPJ was on a 2 year two-way before signing his standard deal. Bates however is set to be a restricted free agent this summer.

Times have changed a bit since Sir Dominic Pointer, that guy got stashed domestically dang near indefinitely.

[JonFromVA]

Shouldn’t the Cavs still have Bates draft rights?

I was under the impression that Bates got the non-guaranteed minimum salary tender and per the norm, rejected it in exchange for the guarantees of the 2-way deal.

Basically, draft and stash for domestic players…

That's my impression as well, that Bates situation is different because a) we drafted him and b) he's never signed a professional contract. Clearly he's free to go sign with another g-league team, run off to Europe or whatever, but I suspect we still have his draft rights and it doesn't make sense to me that he could sign with another pro team until he deals with his draft obligation to the Cavs.

If my suspicions are correct, then Bates will indeed become a restricted free agent, but only another g-league team can make him an offer and that offer will be restricted by the g-league salary structure. So if the Charge want to keep him, they will just match. On the other hand, there are likely conditions which would cause our draft rights for Bates to expire. This does not happen with guys who are playing over-seas until they say they're ready to come over, is it different for players in the g-league or two-ways?

Demonstrating this is the case, otoh, is non-trivial. If someone wants to play lawyer and deep dive in to the CBA, they're welcome to it, but personally I'm ok with waiting for someone in the media to clarify or for us to just see what happens. The Cavs are pretty good at manipulating the CBA so, I have a lot of faith in them managing all our various stashed players and the salary cap moving forward.

[JujitsuFlip]

Shouldn’t the Cavs still have Bates draft rights?

I was under the impression that Bates got the non-guaranteed minimum salary tender and per the norm, rejected it in exchange for the guarantees of the 2-way deal.

Basically, draft and stash for domestic players…

That's my impression as well, that Bates situation is different because a) we drafted him and b) he's never signed a professional contract. Clearly he's free to go sign with another g-league team, run off to Europe or whatever, but I suspect we still have his draft rights and it doesn't make sense to me that he could sign with another pro team until he deals with his draft obligation to the Cavs.

If my suspicions are correct, then Bates will indeed become a restricted free agent, but only another g-league team can make him an offer and that offer will be restricted by the g-league salary structure. So if the Charge want to keep him, they will just match. On the other hand, there are likely conditions which would cause our draft rights for Bates to expire. This does not happen with guys who are playing over-seas until they say they're ready to come over, is it different for players in the g-league or two-ways?

Demonstrating this is the case, otoh, is non-trivial. If someone wants to play lawyer and deep dive in to the CBA, they're welcome to it, but personally I'm ok with waiting for someone in the media to clarify or for us to just see what happens. The Cavs are pretty good at manipulating the CBA so, I have a lot of faith in them managing all our various stashed players and the salary cap moving forward.

Nothing in the CBA supports your opinion but time will tell or we can just wait for Fedor or someone else to clarify what the CBA already told us.

I mean Brobley was free to sign wherever he wanted too, guy just has no value lol why he reupped on a two-way.

https://cavsnation.com/cavs-news-cleveland-makes-key-contract-decision-with-isaiah-mobley

[JonFromVA]

Shouldn’t the Cavs still have Bates draft rights?

I was under the impression that Bates got the non-guaranteed minimum salary tender and per the norm, rejected it in exchange for the guarantees of the 2-way deal.

Basically, draft and stash for domestic players…

That's my impression as well, that Bates situation is different because a) we drafted him and b) he's never signed a professional contract. Clearly he's free to go sign with another g-league team, run off to Europe or whatever, but I suspect we still have his draft rights and it doesn't make sense to me that he could sign with another pro team until he deals with his draft obligation to the Cavs.

If my suspicions are correct, then Bates will indeed become a restricted free agent, but only another g-league team can make him an offer and that offer will be restricted by the g-league salary structure. So if the Charge want to keep him, they will just match. On the other hand, there are likely conditions which would cause our draft rights for Bates to expire. This does not happen with guys who are playing over-seas until they say they're ready to come over, is it different for players in the g-league or two-ways?

Demonstrating this is the case, otoh, is non-trivial. If someone wants to play lawyer and deep dive in to the CBA, they're welcome to it, but personally I'm ok with waiting for someone in the media to clarify or for us to just see what happens. The Cavs are pretty good at manipulating the CBA so, I have a lot of faith in them managing all our various stashed players and the salary cap moving forward.

Nothing in the CBA supports your opinion but time will tell or we can just wait for Fedor or someone else to clarify what the CBA already told us.

I mean Brobley was free to sign wherever he wanted too, guy just has no value lol why he reupped on a two-way.

https://cavsnation.com/cavs-news-cleveland-makes-key-contract-decision-with-isaiah-mobley

What did the CBA tell you about draft rights for a second round pick that never signed a pro contract?

The CBA & Business section of RealGM doesn't see much traffic, but I made a post there on the topic.

[JujitsuFlip]

That's my impression as well, that Bates situation is different because a) we drafted him and b) he's never signed a professional contract. Clearly he's free to go sign with another g-league team, run off to Europe or whatever, but I suspect we still have his draft rights and it doesn't make sense to me that he could sign with another pro team until he deals with his draft obligation to the Cavs.

If my suspicions are correct, then Bates will indeed become a restricted free agent, but only another g-league team can make him an offer and that offer will be restricted by the g-league salary structure. So if the Charge want to keep him, they will just match. On the other hand, there are likely conditions which would cause our draft rights for Bates to expire. This does not happen with guys who are playing over-seas until they say they're ready to come over, is it different for players in the g-league or two-ways?

Demonstrating this is the case, otoh, is non-trivial. If someone wants to play lawyer and deep dive in to the CBA, they're welcome to it, but personally I'm ok with waiting for someone in the media to clarify or for us to just see what happens. The Cavs are pretty good at manipulating the CBA so, I have a lot of faith in them managing all our various stashed players and the salary cap moving forward.

Nothing in the CBA supports your opinion but time will tell or we can just wait for Fedor or someone else to clarify what the CBA already told us.

I mean Brobley was free to sign wherever he wanted too, guy just has no value lol why he reupped on a two-way.

https://cavsnation.com/cavs-news-cleveland-makes-key-contract-decision-with-isaiah-mobley

What did the CBA tell you about draft rights for a second round pick that never signed a pro contract?

It told me if they're on a 2-way they're free to sign a standard deal with any NBA team once they fulfill their 2way contact (being 1 or 2 years).

There's no way the NBPA would agree to limit the earning potetinal of their own players being stuck on 2-way deals for 4 years, that doesn't make sense.

[JonFromVA]

Nothing in the CBA supports your opinion but time will tell or we can just wait for Fedor or someone else to clarify what the CBA already told us.

I mean Brobley was free to sign wherever he wanted too, guy just has no value lol why he reupped on a two-way.

https://cavsnation.com/cavs-news-cleveland-makes-key-contract-decision-with-isaiah-mobley

What did the CBA tell you about draft rights for a second round pick that never signed a pro contract?

It told me if they're on a 2-way they're free to sign a standard deal with any NBA team once they fulfill their 2way contact (being 1 or 2 years).

There's no way the NBPA would agree to limit the earning potetinal of their own players being stuck on 2-way deals for 4 years, that doesn't make sense.

The NBAPA seems unconcerned that the Cavs still hold the draft rights to Milan Macvan whom we drafted 13 years ago.

[JujitsuFlip]

What did the CBA tell you about draft rights for a second round pick that never signed a pro contract?

It told me if they're on a 2-way they're free to sign a standard deal with any NBA team once they fulfill their 2way contact (being 1 or 2 years).

There's no way the NBPA would agree to limit the earning potetinal of their own players being stuck on 2-way deals for 4 years, that doesn't make sense.

The NBPA seems unconcerned that the Cavs still hold the draft rights to Milan Macvan whom we drafted 13 years ago.

Sure, he's never played in the NBA. Emoni Bates has logged 76 minutes in the NBA this season and dressed for 18 NBA games.

Not sure why you would pull out that apples to oranges comparison lol

But look who is conveniently missing from the retained draft rights list, hmmmmmm, interesting... No Emoni Bates.

[JonFromVA]

Not sure why you would pull out that apples to oranges comparison lol

Oh, I thought it was pretty clear, I was suggesting we shouldn't assume what the NBAPA's objective would be. They make mistakes and their beholden to their current constituents, not players not yet in the league. For that matter, non-official web sites make mistakes too, but I'm fine with calling the draft rights not listing Bates as evidence in favor of your conclusion.

[JujitsuFlip]

https://www.si.com/nba/cavaliers/news/whats-going-on-with-cleveland-cavaliers-bench

A story as old as time when it comes to Jb. Mitchell coming back to run the 2nd unit as the lead ball handler probably rights the ship.

Sidebar, whatever trade the Cavs were pondering for LeVert the night they benched him pre-deadline, shoulda just pulled the trigger. Also, shouldn't have turned all the buyout vets away.

Oh well, ~7 weeks until the playoffs, time to lock in.

[toooskies]

https://www.si.com/nba/cavaliers/news/whats-going-on-with-cleveland-cavaliers-bench

A story as old as time when it comes to Jb. Mitchell coming back to run the 2nd unit as the lead ball handler probably rights the ship.

Sidebar, whatever trade the Cavs were pondering for LeVert the night they benched him pre-deadline, shoulda just pulled the trigger. Also, shouldn't have turned all the buyout vets away.

Oh well, ~7 weeks until the playoffs, time to lock in.

LeVert was a +3 last game despite his awful shooting. He brought it on the defensive end of the floor. That find-a-way-to-contribute energy is exactly what several players on the Cavs aren't capable of.

Not saying I would keep him in the off-season or even keep his minutes so high in the rotation now but I'm not overreacting to a back-to-back after the all-star break.

[JujitsuFlip]

https://www.si.com/nba/cavaliers/news/whats-going-on-with-cleveland-cavaliers-bench

A story as old as time when it comes to Jb. Mitchell coming back to run the 2nd unit as the lead ball handler probably rights the ship.

Sidebar, whatever trade the Cavs were pondering for LeVert the night they benched him pre-deadline, shoulda just pulled the trigger. Also, shouldn't have turned all the buyout vets away.

Oh well, ~7 weeks until the playoffs, time to lock in.

LeVert was a +3 last game despite his awful shooting. He brought it on the defensive end of the floor. That find-a-way-to-contribute energy is exactly what several players on the Cavs aren't capable of.

Not saying I would keep him in the off-season or even keep his minutes so high in the rotation now but I'm not overreacting to a back-to-back after the all-star break.

I agree with ya, hard to take much from a 2 or 4 game sample.

But i just feel like LeVert is turning into Cedi and what i mean by that is we would always hope for "good" Cedi but sometimes "bad" Cedi would show. Kind of with LeVery it feels night to night ya never know if the good, the bad, or the ugly LeVert will come to play.

[JonFromVA]

https://www.si.com/nba/cavaliers/news/whats-going-on-with-cleveland-cavaliers-bench

A story as old as time when it comes to Jb. Mitchell coming back to run the 2nd unit as the lead ball handler probably rights the ship.

Sidebar, whatever trade the Cavs were pondering for LeVert the night they benched him pre-deadline, shoulda just pulled the trigger. Also, shouldn't have turned all the buyout vets away.

Oh well, ~7 weeks until the playoffs, time to lock in.

LeVert was a +3 last game despite his awful shooting. He brought it on the defensive end of the floor. That find-a-way-to-contribute energy is exactly what several players on the Cavs aren't capable of.

Not saying I would keep him in the off-season or even keep his minutes so high in the rotation now but I'm not overreacting to a back-to-back after the all-star break.

I agree with ya, hard to take much from a 2 or 4 game sample.

But i just feel like LeVert is turning into Cedi and what i mean by that is we would always hope for "good" Cedi but sometimes "bad" Cedi would show. Kind of with LeVery it feels night to night ya never know if the good, the bad, or the ugly LeVert will come to play.

LeVert will give effort on defense and can create a shot for himself or someone else, so I get why JBB leans on him even when his 3pter isn't falling; but Caris-ISO is never going to generate the kind of numbers as when we effectively spread the floor, move the ball, and create good look for our good shooters.

The Wizards announcer (I'd like to blame Drew Gooden but not positive) at one point during the game caught my attention when he pointed out what a great screen Mobley had to set to free-up DG for a shot. I went Evan? Great screen? Until I looked over at that side of the floor and of course he got it wrong. It was actually Isaac.

[JujitsuFlip]

LeVert was a +3 last game despite his awful shooting. He brought it on the defensive end of the floor. That find-a-way-to-contribute energy is exactly what several players on the Cavs aren't capable of.

Not saying I would keep him in the off-season or even keep his minutes so high in the rotation now but I'm not overreacting to a back-to-back after the all-star break.

I agree with ya, hard to take much from a 2 or 4 game sample.

But i just feel like LeVert is turning into Cedi and what i mean by that is we would always hope for "good" Cedi but sometimes "bad" Cedi would show. Kind of with LeVery it feels night to night ya never know if the good, the bad, or the ugly LeVert will come to play.

LeVert will give effort on defense and can create a shot for himself or someone else, so I get why JBB leans on him even when his 3pter isn't falling; but Caris-ISO is never going to generate the kind of numbers as when we effectively spread the floor, move the ball, and create good look for our good shooters.

The Wizards announcer (I'd like to blame Drew Gooden but not positive) at one point during the game caught my attention when he pointed out what a great screen Mobley had to set to free-up DG for a shot. I went Evan? Great screen? Until I looked over at that side of the floor and of course he got it wrong. It was actually Isaac.

Mobley and Okoro are similar builds, so I could see how he would confuse the 2.

Yeah, we'll see what happens down the stretch but i think the core 4, Strus, LeVert, and Okoro are going to get the majority of the minutes in April. I think Niang will be given a chance to be that consistent 8th man but if the shooting woes continue, i doubt Jb plays him much. I think CPJ and Merrill have next to zero chance of seeing real rotation playoff minutes, given their stature (based on what articles say about Jb's mindset vs longer teams). Wade is someone who could steal some playoff rotation minutes but it will be at the expensive of one of the non starters. We'll see how TT looks when he comes back next month but i doubt he gets more than a couple minutes per night in the 'loffs.

[JonFromVA]

I agree with ya, hard to take much from a 2 or 4 game sample.

But i just feel like LeVert is turning into Cedi and what i mean by that is we would always hope for "good" Cedi but sometimes "bad" Cedi would show. Kind of with LeVery it feels night to night ya never know if the good, the bad, or the ugly LeVert will come to play.

LeVert will give effort on defense and can create a shot for himself or someone else, so I get why JBB leans on him even when his 3pter isn't falling; but Caris-ISO is never going to generate the kind of numbers as when we effectively spread the floor, move the ball, and create good look for our good shooters.

The Wizards announcer (I'd like to blame Drew Gooden but not positive) at one point during the game caught my attention when he pointed out what a great screen Mobley had to set to free-up DG for a shot. I went Evan? Great screen? Until I looked over at that side of the floor and of course he got it wrong. It was actually Isaac.

Mobley and Okoro are similar builds, so I could see how he would confuse the 2.

Yeah, we'll see what happens down the stretch but i think the core 4, Strus, LeVert, and Okoro are going to get the majority of the minutes in April. I think Niang will be given a chance to be that consistent 8th man but if the shooting woes continue, i doubt Jb plays him much. I think CPJ and Merrill have next to zero chance of seeing real rotation playoff minutes, given their stature (based on what articles say about Jb's mindset vs longer teams). Wade is someone who could steal some playoff rotation minutes but it will be at the expensive of one of the non starters. We'll see how TT looks when he comes back next month but i doubt he gets more than a couple minutes per night in the 'loffs.

How I wish I could disagree.

I guess we're fortunate that those guys have shown they can still find ways to contribute, but we're probably back to counting on Garland and Mitchell having to go up against some teams with top notch wing defenders and finding a way to overcome it.

[JujitsuFlip]

LeVert will give effort on defense and can create a shot for himself or someone else, so I get why JBB leans on him even when his 3pter isn't falling; but Caris-ISO is never going to generate the kind of numbers as when we effectively spread the floor, move the ball, and create good look for our good shooters.

The Wizards announcer (I'd like to blame Drew Gooden but not positive) at one point during the game caught my attention when he pointed out what a great screen Mobley had to set to free-up DG for a shot. I went Evan? Great screen? Until I looked over at that side of the floor and of course he got it wrong. It was actually Isaac.

Mobley and Okoro are similar builds, so I could see how he would confuse the 2.

Yeah, we'll see what happens down the stretch but i think the core 4, Strus, LeVert, and Okoro are going to get the majority of the minutes in April. I think Niang will be given a chance to be that consistent 8th man but if the shooting woes continue, i doubt Jb plays him much. I think CPJ and Merrill have next to zero chance of seeing real rotation playoff minutes, given their stature (based on what articles say about Jb's mindset vs longer teams). Wade is someone who could steal some playoff rotation minutes but it will be at the expensive of one of the non starters. We'll see how TT looks when he comes back next month but i doubt he gets more than a couple minutes per night in the 'loffs.

How I wish I could disagree.

I guess we're fortunate that those guys have shown they can still find ways to contribute, but we're probably back to counting on Garland and Mitchell having to go up against some teams with top notch wing defenders and finding a way to overcome it.

Oof, I'm afraid so. I mean, Mitchell is capable of doing it but the guy has to go nova to even have a chance.

In 2020 he averaged 36.3 PPG against the nugs and they lost the series in 7 (blew a 3-1 lead) and then in 2021 he averaged 34.8 PPG against the clips and they lost the series in 6 (blew a 2-0 lead).

[JujitsuFlip]

https://www.nba.com/cavaliers/news/releases-sharife-cooper-signing-240226?fbclid=PAAaaP4fsP-ng5J_D4F9rfl_BTFfWrcjRMZ-W1K3W5MbDLzYrWR7IzhaRC3TA

10 days can obviously be cut short but looks like our 3 two-way guys are locked in for the year, since March 4th is the deadline if one was gonna be converted.

I doubt Cooper will fill the 15th spot just a good way to get him some money. I have no idea what the Cavs will do with the 15th spot. Probably moot bc the player won't crack the rotation.

[ijspeelman]

https://www.nba.com/cavaliers/news/releases-sharife-cooper-signing-240226?fbclid=PAAaaP4fsP-ng5J_D4F9rfl_BTFfWrcjRMZ-W1K3W5MbDLzYrWR7IzhaRC3TA

10 days can obviously be cut short but looks like our 3 two-way guys are locked in for the year, since March 4th is the deadline if one was gonna be converted.

I doubt Cooper will fill the 15th spot just a good way to get him some money. I have no idea what the Cavs will do with the 15th spot. Probably moot bc the player won't crack the rotation.

15th spot is def injury insurance. The question is do they target playmaking, wing, or big depth

[JonFromVA]

Mobley and Okoro are similar builds, so I could see how he would confuse the 2.

Yeah, we'll see what happens down the stretch but i think the core 4, Strus, LeVert, and Okoro are going to get the majority of the minutes in April. I think Niang will be given a chance to be that consistent 8th man but if the shooting woes continue, i doubt Jb plays him much. I think CPJ and Merrill have next to zero chance of seeing real rotation playoff minutes, given their stature (based on what articles say about Jb's mindset vs longer teams). Wade is someone who could steal some playoff rotation minutes but it will be at the expensive of one of the non starters. We'll see how TT looks when he comes back next month but i doubt he gets more than a couple minutes per night in the 'loffs.

How I wish I could disagree.

I guess we're fortunate that those guys have shown they can still find ways to contribute, but we're probably back to counting on Garland and Mitchell having to go up against some teams with top notch wing defenders and finding a way to overcome it.

Oof, I'm afraid so. I mean, Mitchell is capable of doing it but the guy has to go nova to even have a chance.

In 2020 he averaged 36.3 PPG against the nugs and they lost the series in 7 (blew a 3-1 lead) and then in 2021 he averaged 34.8 PPG against the clips and they lost the series in 6 (blew a 2-0 lead).

Perhaps the ultimate test for JBB because I think we could pull it off if Mitchell and Garland just play well as long as our defense isn't letting the Jordan Poole's and Kyle Kuzma's of the world go nova on us or let the Mitchell Robinson's and Mo Wagner's push us around.

Our defense has to be truly great, though, not just trying harder that most of our opponents.