2023-24 Regular Season

toooskies · Post #1841 » by **toooskies** » Fri Feb 16, 2024 12:19 am

JujitsuFlip · Post #1842 » by **JujitsuFlip** » Fri Feb 16, 2024 12:28 am

toooskies wrote:

Read on Twitter

Seems like it's just gonna end up being Emoni Bates unless he gambles on himself. Probably once the Charge season is over or on the last day of the regular season.

JonFromVA · Post #1843 » by **JonFromVA** » Fri Feb 16, 2024 4:33 pm

JujitsuFlip wrote:
toooskies wrote:

Read on Twitter
Seems like it's just gonna end up being Emoni Bates unless he gambles on himself. Probably once the Charge season is over or on the last day of the regular season.

Might not even be Bates if Altman/Gansey see him playing mostly in the g-league next season and want to push his window forward as far as possible.

But yeah, of course buy out players want to actually play. We need someone ready to play, but happy to collect a paycheck.

JujitsuFlip · Post #1844 » by **JujitsuFlip** » Fri Feb 16, 2024 10:13 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:
toooskies wrote:

Read on Twitter
Seems like it's just gonna end up being Emoni Bates unless he gambles on himself. Probably once the Charge season is over or on the last day of the regular season.

Might not even be Bates if Altman/Gansey see him playing mostly in the g-league next season and want to push his window forward as far as possible.

But yeah, of course buy out players want to actually play. We need someone ready to play, but happy to collect a paycheck.

Bates is a restricted free agent this summer so could be dicey if he hits the market, idk how high the Cavs would be willing to match for him.

JonFromVA · Post #1845 » by **JonFromVA** » Sat Feb 17, 2024 6:10 pm

JujitsuFlip wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:Seems like it's just gonna end up being Emoni Bates unless he gambles on himself. Probably once the Charge season is over or on the last day of the regular season.

Might not even be Bates if Altman/Gansey see him playing mostly in the g-league next season and want to push his window forward as far as possible.

But yeah, of course buy out players want to actually play. We need someone ready to play, but happy to collect a paycheck.
Bates is a restricted free agent this summer so could be dicey if he hits the market, idk how high the Cavs would be willing to match for him.

My impression was that he was stuck with us because we drafted him and the first step to get on the path to being unstuck is to sign an NBA contract. I think even two way players are limited in a similar way.

not a cba expert ...

JujitsuFlip · Post #1846 » by **JujitsuFlip** » Sat Feb 17, 2024 6:42 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Might not even be Bates if Altman/Gansey see him playing mostly in the g-league next season and want to push his window forward as far as possible.

But yeah, of course buy out players want to actually play. We need someone ready to play, but happy to collect a paycheck.
Bates is a restricted free agent this summer so could be dicey if he hits the market, idk how high the Cavs would be willing to match for him.

My impression was that he was stuck with us because we drafted him and the first step to get on the path to being unstuck is to sign an NBA contract. I think even two way players are limited in a similar way.

not a cba expert ...

Nope, they're just like any other restricted free agent. Ty Jerome was on a 2way with the Warriors last season, was restricted and we poached him by putting him on the BAE which woulda hard capped the Warriors if they matched and with all their salaries it wasn't an option.

In season, you're right, teams can't poach other team's 2way players but once they're a restricted free agent, any team is free to sign them.

It's not like he's Diop or Travers where we just have their draft rights and someone would have to trade us for their rights if they wanted to sign them.

Just a little bit below on some of last season's 2way RFA class...
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/08/five-two-way-restricted-free-agents-remain-unsigned.html

JujitsuFlip · Post #1847 » by **JujitsuFlip** » Sun Feb 18, 2024 12:45 am

We made it fellas!

JonFromVA · Post #1848 » by **JonFromVA** » Sun Feb 18, 2024 4:26 pm

JujitsuFlip wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:Bates is a restricted free agent this summer so could be dicey if he hits the market, idk how high the Cavs would be willing to match for him.

My impression was that he was stuck with us because we drafted him and the first step to get on the path to being unstuck is to sign an NBA contract. I think even two way players are limited in a similar way.

not a cba expert ...

Nope, they're just like any other restricted free agent. Ty Jerome was on a 2way with the Warriors last season, was restricted and we poached him by putting him on the BAE which woulda hard capped the Warriors if they matched and with all their salaries it wasn't an option.

In season, you're right, teams can't poach other team's 2way players but once they're a restricted free agent, any team is free to sign them.

It's not like he's Diop or Travers where we just have their draft rights and someone would have to trade us for their rights if they wanted to sign them.

Just a little bit below on some of last season's 2way RFA class...
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/08/five-two-way-restricted-free-agents-remain-unsigned.html

Don't look at Ty Jerome as an example here, he was drafted and then signed a pro contract with the Suns and another with the Warriors and played 3+ seasons ... whereas CPJ, Bates, Diop, and Travers had (until the other day) not yet signed even their first pro deal. Bates, Diop, IMobley, and Travers were of course all drafted while Nance Jr and CPJ were not.

Perhaps there's a clue in who we've signed to 10-day deals and who we've not, assuming a 10-day counts as a club signing a player to a pro contract. Teams wouldn't exhaust any rights on a player just to funnel him some extra money depending what all the triggers are. But seems to me we've used 10-days on guys we didn't draft, so, that's likely not coincidental.

JujitsuFlip · Post #1849 » by **JujitsuFlip** » Sun Feb 18, 2024 4:51 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
My impression was that he was stuck with us because we drafted him and the first step to get on the path to being unstuck is to sign an NBA contract. I think even two way players are limited in a similar way.

not a cba expert ...

Nope, they're just like any other restricted free agent. Ty Jerome was on a 2way with the Warriors last season, was restricted and we poached him by putting him on the BAE which woulda hard capped the Warriors if they matched and with all their salaries it wasn't an option.

In season, you're right, teams can't poach other team's 2way players but once they're a restricted free agent, any team is free to sign them.

It's not like he's Diop or Travers where we just have their draft rights and someone would have to trade us for their rights if they wanted to sign them.

Just a little bit below on some of last season's 2way RFA class...
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/08/five-two-way-restricted-free-agents-remain-unsigned.html

Don't look at Ty Jerome as an example here, he was drafted and then signed a pro contract with the Suns and another with the Warriors and played 3+ seasons ... whereas CPJ, Bates, Diop, and Travers had (until the other day) not yet signed even their first pro deal. Bates, Diop, IMobley, and Travers were of course all drafted while Nance Jr and CPJ were not.

Perhaps there's a clue in who we've signed to 10-day deals and who we've not, assuming a 10-day counts as a club signing a player to a pro contract. Teams wouldn't exhaust any rights on a player just to funnel him some extra money depending what all the triggers are. But seems to me we've used 10-days on guys we didn't draft, so, that's likely not coincidental.

I'm telling you, if Bates gets to this summer, he is a restricted free agent we have to look no further than Spotrac. He can sign wherever he wants and the Cavs can match it, just not sure how high they're willing to go.

If you want further proof, see below.

"Players eligible to become Restricted Free Agents and receive a Qualifying Offer include: Rookie Scale Players (see glossary for definition) finishing their second team option, Two-Way Players who spent at least 15 days on their affiliate NBA team..."

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/nba-qualifying-offers-what-how-do-work-zach-zobell#:~:text=Players%20eligible%20to%20become%20Restricted,Round%20Picks%20and%20Undrafted%20players)

JonFromVA · Post #1850 » by **JonFromVA** » Sun Feb 18, 2024 5:17 pm

JujitsuFlip wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:Nope, they're just like any other restricted free agent. Ty Jerome was on a 2way with the Warriors last season, was restricted and we poached him by putting him on the BAE which woulda hard capped the Warriors if they matched and with all their salaries it wasn't an option.

In season, you're right, teams can't poach other team's 2way players but once they're a restricted free agent, any team is free to sign them.

It's not like he's Diop or Travers where we just have their draft rights and someone would have to trade us for their rights if they wanted to sign them.

Just a little bit below on some of last season's 2way RFA class...
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/08/five-two-way-restricted-free-agents-remain-unsigned.html

Don't look at Ty Jerome as an example here, he was drafted and then signed a pro contract with the Suns and another with the Warriors and played 3+ seasons ... whereas CPJ, Bates, Diop, and Travers had (until the other day) not yet signed even their first pro deal. Bates, Diop, IMobley, and Travers were of course all drafted while Nance Jr and CPJ were not.

Perhaps there's a clue in who we've signed to 10-day deals and who we've not, assuming a 10-day counts as a club signing a player to a pro contract. Teams wouldn't exhaust any rights on a player just to funnel him some extra money depending what all the triggers are. But seems to me we've used 10-days on guys we didn't draft, so, that's likely not coincidental.
I'm telling you, if Bates gets to this summer, he is a restricted free agent we have to look no further than Spotrac. He can sign wherever he wants and the Cavs can match it, just not sure how high they're willing to go.

If you want further proof, see below.

"Players eligible to become Restricted Free Agents and receive a Qualifying Offer include: Rookie Scale Players (see glossary for definition) finishing their second team option, Two-Way Players who spent at least 15 days on their affiliate NBA team..."

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/nba-qualifying-offers-what-how-do-work-zach-zobell#:~:text=Players%20eligible%20to%20become%20Restricted,Round%20Picks%20and%20Undrafted%20players)

Yet, even so, Emoni would be a two-way restricted free agent which may have other rules.

This Forbes articles says there's a conundrum here without quite spelling it out other than mentioning the QO would be lower than normal:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffsiegel/2018/08/01/nba-two-way-contracts-restricted-free-agency-unfair/?sh=25d24e247ee8

It kind of implies other teams would only be able to sign Emoni to a two-way contract of their own, which in that case the Cavs would simply match.

JujitsuFlip · Post #1851 » by **JujitsuFlip** » Sun Feb 18, 2024 7:44 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Don't look at Ty Jerome as an example here, he was drafted and then signed a pro contract with the Suns and another with the Warriors and played 3+ seasons ... whereas CPJ, Bates, Diop, and Travers had (until the other day) not yet signed even their first pro deal. Bates, Diop, IMobley, and Travers were of course all drafted while Nance Jr and CPJ were not.

Perhaps there's a clue in who we've signed to 10-day deals and who we've not, assuming a 10-day counts as a club signing a player to a pro contract. Teams wouldn't exhaust any rights on a player just to funnel him some extra money depending what all the triggers are. But seems to me we've used 10-days on guys we didn't draft, so, that's likely not coincidental.
I'm telling you, if Bates gets to this summer, he is a restricted free agent we have to look no further than Spotrac. He can sign wherever he wants and the Cavs can match it, just not sure how high they're willing to go.

If you want further proof, see below.

"Players eligible to become Restricted Free Agents and receive a Qualifying Offer include: Rookie Scale Players (see glossary for definition) finishing their second team option, Two-Way Players who spent at least 15 days on their affiliate NBA team..."

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/nba-qualifying-offers-what-how-do-work-zach-zobell#:~:text=Players%20eligible%20to%20become%20Restricted,Round%20Picks%20and%20Undrafted%20players)

Yet, even so, Emoni would be a two-way restricted free agent which may have other rules.

This Forbes articles says there's a conundrum here without quite spelling it out other than mentioning the QO would be lower than normal:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffsiegel/2018/08/01/nba-two-way-contracts-restricted-free-agency-unfair/?sh=25d24e247ee8

It kind of implies other teams would only be able to sign Emoni to a two-way contract of their own, which in that case the Cavs would simply match.

Yeah it doesn't have any different rules lol just a lower QO. They're still free to sign where they want.

Straight from the 2023 CBA...

toooskies · Post #1852 » by **toooskies** » Sun Feb 18, 2024 8:41 pm

JujitsuFlip wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:I'm telling you, if Bates gets to this summer, he is a restricted free agent we have to look no further than Spotrac. He can sign wherever he wants and the Cavs can match it, just not sure how high they're willing to go.

If you want further proof, see below.

"Players eligible to become Restricted Free Agents and receive a Qualifying Offer include: Rookie Scale Players (see glossary for definition) finishing their second team option, Two-Way Players who spent at least 15 days on their affiliate NBA team..."

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/nba-qualifying-offers-what-how-do-work-zach-zobell#:~:text=Players%20eligible%20to%20become%20Restricted,Round%20Picks%20and%20Undrafted%20players)

Yet, even so, Emoni would be a two-way restricted free agent which may have other rules.

This Forbes articles says there's a conundrum here without quite spelling it out other than mentioning the QO would be lower than normal:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffsiegel/2018/08/01/nba-two-way-contracts-restricted-free-agency-unfair/?sh=25d24e247ee8

It kind of implies other teams would only be able to sign Emoni to a two-way contract of their own, which in that case the Cavs would simply match.
Yeah it doesn't have any different rules lol just a lower QO. They're still free to sign where they want.

Straight from the 2023 CBA...

OK, so what do you think Emoni is worth on the RFA market? What's the offer Detroit or San Antonio would make that the Cavs wouldn't match?

JujitsuFlip · Post #1853 » by **JujitsuFlip** » Sun Feb 18, 2024 11:09 pm

toooskies wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Yet, even so, Emoni would be a two-way restricted free agent which may have other rules.

This Forbes articles says there's a conundrum here without quite spelling it out other than mentioning the QO would be lower than normal:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffsiegel/2018/08/01/nba-two-way-contracts-restricted-free-agency-unfair/?sh=25d24e247ee8

It kind of implies other teams would only be able to sign Emoni to a two-way contract of their own, which in that case the Cavs would simply match.
Yeah it doesn't have any different rules lol just a lower QO. They're still free to sign where they want.

Straight from the 2023 CBA...

OK, so what do you think Emoni is worth on the RFA market? What's the offer Detroit or San Antonio would make that the Cavs wouldn't match?

I don't have a crystal ball, I'm simply conveying what the rules are.

We'll find out March 4th (the deadline for two-way contracts to be signed), if Bates takes spot 15 or not.

JujitsuFlip · Post #1854 » by **JujitsuFlip** » Mon Feb 19, 2024 9:28 pm

https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/2024/02/who-are-cavs-looking-to-sign-in-buyout-market-hey-chris.html?outputType=amp

Fantastic write-up by Fedor.

Part 1: buyout market
Part 2: Strus as a starter
Part 3: playoff expectations

JujitsuFlip · Post #1855 » by **JujitsuFlip** » Mon Feb 19, 2024 9:54 pm

toooskies wrote:

Read on Twitter

Did not have Pete Nance on the bingo card.

Cavs just signed him to a 2way deal.

toooskies · Post #1856 » by **toooskies** » Mon Feb 19, 2024 10:10 pm

JujitsuFlip wrote:
toooskies wrote:

Read on Twitter

Did not have Pete Nance on the bingo card.
Cavs just signed him to a 2way deal.

Yeah, that's the right kind of deal for him.

JonFromVA · Post #1857 » by **JonFromVA** » Tue Feb 20, 2024 6:27 pm

JujitsuFlip wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:I'm telling you, if Bates gets to this summer, he is a restricted free agent we have to look no further than Spotrac. He can sign wherever he wants and the Cavs can match it, just not sure how high they're willing to go.

If you want further proof, see below.

"Players eligible to become Restricted Free Agents and receive a Qualifying Offer include: Rookie Scale Players (see glossary for definition) finishing their second team option, Two-Way Players who spent at least 15 days on their affiliate NBA team..."

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/nba-qualifying-offers-what-how-do-work-zach-zobell#:~:text=Players%20eligible%20to%20become%20Restricted,Round%20Picks%20and%20Undrafted%20players)

Yet, even so, Emoni would be a two-way restricted free agent which may have other rules.

This Forbes articles says there's a conundrum here without quite spelling it out other than mentioning the QO would be lower than normal:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffsiegel/2018/08/01/nba-two-way-contracts-restricted-free-agency-unfair/?sh=25d24e247ee8

It kind of implies other teams would only be able to sign Emoni to a two-way contract of their own, which in that case the Cavs would simply match.
Yeah it doesn't have any different rules lol just a lower QO. They're still free to sign where they want.

Straight from the 2023 CBA...

I'm not disputing that he can become an RFA, what I'm questioning is is whether it matters. For instance, the paragraph you quoted didn't mention the Gilbert Arenas rule, yet we're all aware it exists and limits how much teams can offer a restricted free agent.

Or maybe Forbes is clueless and Altman doesn't give a **** about losing Bates?

I just suspect there's something else neither of us have dug up yet (and I'm not wasting a whole lot of time trying because the CBA is just annoying).

JonFromVA · Post #1858 » by **JonFromVA** » Tue Feb 20, 2024 6:30 pm

toooskies wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:
toooskies wrote:

Read on Twitter

Did not have Pete Nance on the bingo card.
Cavs just signed him to a 2way deal.

Yeah, that's the right kind of deal for him.

Which I'm presuming we did not just out of the goodness of our hearts, because it gives us rights beyond the end of this season.

JujitsuFlip · Post #1859 » by **JujitsuFlip** » Tue Feb 20, 2024 10:22 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Yet, even so, Emoni would be a two-way restricted free agent which may have other rules.

This Forbes articles says there's a conundrum here without quite spelling it out other than mentioning the QO would be lower than normal:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffsiegel/2018/08/01/nba-two-way-contracts-restricted-free-agency-unfair/?sh=25d24e247ee8

It kind of implies other teams would only be able to sign Emoni to a two-way contract of their own, which in that case the Cavs would simply match.
Yeah it doesn't have any different rules lol just a lower QO. They're still free to sign where they want.

Straight from the 2023 CBA...

I'm not disputing that he can become an RFA, what I'm questioning is is whether it matters. For instance, the paragraph you quoted didn't mention the Gilbert Arenas rule, yet we're all aware it exists and limits how much teams can offer a restricted free agent.

Or maybe Forbes is clueless and Altman doesn't give a **** about losing Bates?

I just suspect there's something else neither of us have dug up yet (and I'm not wasting a whole lot of time trying because the CBA is just annoying).

The Gilbert Arenas rule is exactly why the Cavs would be able to match Bates' offer sheet, in the hypothetical. I'm just saying with extending Mitchell, extending Mobley, and Okoro's RFA idk how high on the list adding a Bates offer sheet for 2 or 3 years would be.

JonFromVA · Post #1860 » by **JonFromVA** » Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:20 pm

JujitsuFlip wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:Yeah it doesn't have any different rules lol just a lower QO. They're still free to sign where they want.

Straight from the 2023 CBA...

I'm not disputing that he can become an RFA, what I'm questioning is is whether it matters. For instance, the paragraph you quoted didn't mention the Gilbert Arenas rule, yet we're all aware it exists and limits how much teams can offer a restricted free agent.

Or maybe Forbes is clueless and Altman doesn't give a **** about losing Bates?

I just suspect there's something else neither of us have dug up yet (and I'm not wasting a whole lot of time trying because the CBA is just annoying).
The Gilbert Arenas rule is exactly why the Cavs would be able to match Bates' offer sheet, in the hypothetical. I'm just saying with extending Mitchell, extending Mobley, and Okoro's RFA idk how high on the list adding a Bates offer sheet for 2 or 3 years would be.

Ideally we want cheap players with potential to fill out the roster like we've done with Dean, Sam, and now Craig.

From the Cavs POV, they may prefer to keep Emoni in the g-league for another year, and then sign him to a similar deal. I suppose we'll just have to see how it plays out.