Emoni Bates - The Prince That was Promised?

[JonFromVA]

Thought I'd launch Emoni his own thread with a really thoughtful and balanced breakdown of his game after Summer League:

Watch on YouTube

A very interesting take-away from this is how Emoni keeps cutting off his drives after contact. Whether he's just trying to avoid injury in a meaningless game, or if he's afraid even light contact will disrupt whatever he's trying to do and likely cause a turnover we'll have to see. Hopefully he's able to add strength over time and not worry about it.

[TheLand13]

I haven’t tried to put too much stock into the idea of what Emoni could become if he reaches his potential (which is very high), simply because even though he was once expected to be a top five pick in the draft, there is a pretty good reason he dropped so low. The signs are there for him to be a great player, maybe even something more. And if he turns out to be one, Cleveland has committed highway robbery with this one and they reap the benefits, especially given what he fills from a need perspective.

But for now, I’m keeping my expectations relatively limited, at least until I can see him jump up to the team first and get actual playing time. If that happens, I’ll be paying a lot more attention to what he does on the court. And if what he’s doing is working… I really like Cleveland’s chances to be a consistent powerhouse in the East with him, Garland and Mobley being the future of the franchise.

[ijspeelman]

I haven’t tried to put too much stock into the idea of what Emoni could become if he reaches his potential (which is very high), simply because even though he was once expected to be a top five pick in the draft, there is a pretty good reason he dropped so low. The signs are there for him to be a great player, maybe even something more. And if he turns out to be one, Cleveland has committed highway robbery with this one and they reap the benefits, especially given what he fills from a need perspective.

But for now, I’m keeping my expectations relatively limited, at least until I can see him jump up to the team first and get actual playing time. If that happens, I’ll be paying a lot more attention to what he does on the court. And if what he’s doing is working… I really like Cleveland’s chances to be a consistent powerhouse in the East with him, Garland and Mobley being the future of the franchise.

To me, his potential is between a useful high usage scoring bench guy to a role player who can shoot spot-ups.

He has a lot of things he needs to improve to get to either of these posts (defense, attention, shot selection, etc.) and I think he probably will be most valuable in the 8-11 spot on the bench even if improves in all areas. He's a ways away currently, but I think he showed in summer league that he can be a team player (the contrary is a lot of the reason he dropped in the first place).

[JonFromVA]

I haven’t tried to put too much stock into the idea of what Emoni could become if he reaches his potential (which is very high), simply because even though he was once expected to be a top five pick in the draft, there is a pretty good reason he dropped so low. The signs are there for him to be a great player, maybe even something more. And if he turns out to be one, Cleveland has committed highway robbery with this one and they reap the benefits, especially given what he fills from a need perspective.

But for now, I’m keeping my expectations relatively limited, at least until I can see him jump up to the team first and get actual playing time. If that happens, I’ll be paying a lot more attention to what he does on the court. And if what he’s doing is working… I really like Cleveland’s chances to be a consistent powerhouse in the East with him, Garland and Mobley being the future of the franchise.

To me, his potential is between a useful high usage scoring bench guy to a role player who can shoot spot-ups.

He has a lot of things he needs to improve to get to either of these posts (defense, attention, shot selection, etc.) and I think he probably will be most valuable in the 8-11 spot on the bench even if improves in all areas. He's a ways away currently, but I think he showed in summer league that he can be a team player (the contrary is a lot of the reason he dropped in the first place).

His #1 attribute in terms or reaching a high ceiling is something rather nebulous, but yet you can see signs of it ... and it's the remarks from people who should know that "he's a baller". Or in other words, his instincts for the game, his BBIQ, his moves, ball handling, shooting are all there. He's just still very young, very thin, and has mostly wasted the last 3 years in terms of basketball development.

He does have a number of physical traits that are currently and may persistently hold him back. For one thing his super thin frame and how he seems to avoid contact. His first step combined with his lack of interest in trying to shoulder his way past a defender. And his length which all told is a positive for a team using 6'5" guys with a 6'8" wingspan at SF, but it does him no favors. He lacks great hops too, but he does play above the rim and we've seen his instincts come in to play here, so he likely will contribute as a rebounder, cutter, lob threat.

Emoni has a lot to overcome if he's ever going to become a star in the league. If we can keep our core together, it may even be for the best if Emoni doesn't get there. Maybe he becomes a key contributor like a Michael Porter Jr but without the $172M rookie max extension and hopefully the back problems.

Or maybe he busts. A lot of teams seem to be betting on that.

[ijspeelman]

I haven’t tried to put too much stock into the idea of what Emoni could become if he reaches his potential (which is very high), simply because even though he was once expected to be a top five pick in the draft, there is a pretty good reason he dropped so low. The signs are there for him to be a great player, maybe even something more. And if he turns out to be one, Cleveland has committed highway robbery with this one and they reap the benefits, especially given what he fills from a need perspective.

But for now, I’m keeping my expectations relatively limited, at least until I can see him jump up to the team first and get actual playing time. If that happens, I’ll be paying a lot more attention to what he does on the court. And if what he’s doing is working… I really like Cleveland’s chances to be a consistent powerhouse in the East with him, Garland and Mobley being the future of the franchise.

To me, his potential is between a useful high usage scoring bench guy to a role player who can shoot spot-ups.

He has a lot of things he needs to improve to get to either of these posts (defense, attention, shot selection, etc.) and I think he probably will be most valuable in the 8-11 spot on the bench even if improves in all areas. He's a ways away currently, but I think he showed in summer league that he can be a team player (the contrary is a lot of the reason he dropped in the first place).

His #1 attribute in terms or reaching a high ceiling is something rather nebulous, but yet you can see signs of it ... and it's the remarks from people who should know that "he's a baller". Or in other words, his instincts for the game, his BBIQ, his moves, ball handling, shooting are all there. He's just still very young, very thin, and has mostly wasted the last 3 years in terms of basketball development.

He does have a number of physical traits that are currently and may persistently hold him back. For one thing his super thin frame and how he seems to avoid contact. His first step combined with his lack of interest in trying to shoulder his way past a defender. And his length which all told is a positive for a team using 6'5" guys with a 6'8" wingspan at SF, but it does him no favors. He lacks great hops too, but he does play above the rim and we've seen his instincts come in to play here, so he likely will contribute as a rebounder, cutter, lob threat.

Emoni has a lot to overcome if he's ever going to become a star in the league. If we can keep our core together, it may even be for the best if Emoni doesn't get there. Maybe he becomes a key contributor like a Michael Porter Jr but without the $172M rookie max extension and hopefully the back problems.

Or maybe he busts. A lot of teams seem to be betting on that.

Luckily, he cannot really bust at the 49th pick in the draft.

To be positive, his passing vision is much better than I expected and I would definitely classify him as a willing passer. He made a few extremely nice reads.

I want to do a deep dive on him, film-wise, but will need to find time.

[toooskies]

I'm cautiously optimistic about what we saw in summer league.

I would not be that surprised if he is putting up 20 a night as our starting SF in 4 years. I also would not be surprised if he's out of the league. The average case might be that it takes him 7 or 8 years to figure out how to become a useful player, and we'll never see it in Cleveland but someone else will after two or three stops around the league.

High risk, potentially high reward, probably won't pan out for us. Still looks like great value for a 2nd rounder.

[JonFromVA]

I'm cautiously optimistic about what we saw in summer league.

I would not be that surprised if he is putting up 20 a night as our starting SF in 4 years. I also would not be surprised if he's out of the league. The average case might be that it takes him 7 or 8 years to figure out how to become a useful player, and we'll never see it in Cleveland but someone else will after two or three stops around the league.

High risk, potentially high reward, probably won't pan out for us. Still looks like great value for a 2nd rounder.

He could be putting up 20 a night this season if our goal was to build a team to feed him shots and ignore everything else.

His physical development is going to take time and his frame may never really fill out all that much, but if his ability to process what he's asked to do is as quick as it seemed in those few games in Summer League; it would be unfair to put a schedule on his progress.

It will be easier to extrapolate his potential growth once we start to get some more data points. It's not easy to just ignore his lack of success in the NCAA, but there is a case to be made that it should be thrown out because he wasn't developing/growing as a player.

I'm struggling to think of a precedent, but nothing says there needs to be one.

[ijspeelman]

I'm cautiously optimistic about what we saw in summer league.

I would not be that surprised if he is putting up 20 a night as our starting SF in 4 years. I also would not be surprised if he's out of the league. The average case might be that it takes him 7 or 8 years to figure out how to become a useful player, and we'll never see it in Cleveland but someone else will after two or three stops around the league.

High risk, potentially high reward, probably won't pan out for us. Still looks like great value for a 2nd rounder.

He could be putting up 20 a night this season if our goal was to build a team to feed him shots and ignore everything else.

His physical development is going to take time and his frame may never really fill out all that much, but if his ability to process what he's asked to do is as quick as it seemed in those few games in Summer League; it would be unfair to put a schedule on his progress.

It will be easier to extrapolate his potential growth once we start to get some more data points. It's not easy to just ignore his lack of success in the NCAA, but there is a case to be made that it should be thrown out because he wasn't developing/growing as a player.

I'm struggling to think of a precedent, but nothing says there needs to be one.

Potentially someone like Lance Stephenson comes to mind.

[JonFromVA]

I'm cautiously optimistic about what we saw in summer league.

I would not be that surprised if he is putting up 20 a night as our starting SF in 4 years. I also would not be surprised if he's out of the league. The average case might be that it takes him 7 or 8 years to figure out how to become a useful player, and we'll never see it in Cleveland but someone else will after two or three stops around the league.

High risk, potentially high reward, probably won't pan out for us. Still looks like great value for a 2nd rounder.

He could be putting up 20 a night this season if our goal was to build a team to feed him shots and ignore everything else.

His physical development is going to take time and his frame may never really fill out all that much, but if his ability to process what he's asked to do is as quick as it seemed in those few games in Summer League; it would be unfair to put a schedule on his progress.

It will be easier to extrapolate his potential growth once we start to get some more data points. It's not easy to just ignore his lack of success in the NCAA, but there is a case to be made that it should be thrown out because he wasn't developing/growing as a player.

I'm struggling to think of a precedent, but nothing says there needs to be one.

Potentially someone like Lance Stephenson comes to mind.

I found this quote about Stephenson from his high-school coach:

"Lance, we just went over the play and you still didn't run what you were supposed to run," Morton remembered telling Stephenson via Grantland. "Coach, when I get in a groove, when I get out there, I don't remember plays. Just give me the ball and I'm going to score," Stephenson replied to his coach.

"That's what he used to do," Morton recounted. "And he scored a lot of points and we won a lot of championships."

There are certain aspects of that in Emoni's game, but because I saw growth in just his second Summer league game, I'm not convinced it's an actual problem for him rather than an outcome of out of control hype and ego.

I mean, take JaVale McGee for instance ... a 7 footer with fantastic length who was once described as the worst defender in the entire NCAA. He was in his late 20's before he started to set that reputation behind him, get himself off Shatin a Fool, and was able to start contributing to winning.

With some of these guys you can literally try to teach them something for years, and they may never get it.

otoh, a player who only has to be be told something once or even figure out something on his own and adapt on a game to game basis is on a whole other level.

It won't take long to find out whether Emoni is that quick learner, or if he's just another guy who's only interest is to go out there and do his thing like all his "boys" tell him to, or perhaps his BBIQ is way lower than I'm hoping.

[JonFromVA]

Emoni's balling in Summer time practice.

Read on Twitter

[jbk1234]

Emoni's balling in Summer time practice.

Read on Twitter

Yikes, looks like Niang really is Love's replacement.

[jasonxxx102]

I haven’t tried to put too much stock into the idea of what Emoni could become if he reaches his potential (which is very high), simply because even though he was once expected to be a top five pick in the draft, there is a pretty good reason he dropped so low. The signs are there for him to be a great player, maybe even something more. And if he turns out to be one, Cleveland has committed highway robbery with this one and they reap the benefits, especially given what he fills from a need perspective.

But for now, I’m keeping my expectations relatively limited, at least until I can see him jump up to the team first and get actual playing time. If that happens, I’ll be paying a lot more attention to what he does on the court. And if what he’s doing is working… I really like Cleveland’s chances to be a consistent powerhouse in the East with him, Garland and Mobley being the future of the franchise.

To me, his potential is between a useful high usage scoring bench guy to a role player who can shoot spot-ups.

He has a lot of things he needs to improve to get to either of these posts (defense, attention, shot selection, etc.) and I think he probably will be most valuable in the 8-11 spot on the bench even if improves in all areas. He's a ways away currently, but I think he showed in summer league that he can be a team player (the contrary is a lot of the reason he dropped in the first place).

He's so so so raw.

I posted this in a thread on the GB but will put it here. It's clear that Emoni has not had much structured basketball up to this point. Both yesterday and during Summer League he just runs around the court like crazy without really knowing what he's doing.

Multiple times yesterday I saw him cut right into the lane of a Cavs ball handler.

He's obviously a very talented scorer but he's got a long way to go before being a contributor to winning games

[JonFromVA]

I haven’t tried to put too much stock into the idea of what Emoni could become if he reaches his potential (which is very high), simply because even though he was once expected to be a top five pick in the draft, there is a pretty good reason he dropped so low. The signs are there for him to be a great player, maybe even something more. And if he turns out to be one, Cleveland has committed highway robbery with this one and they reap the benefits, especially given what he fills from a need perspective.

But for now, I’m keeping my expectations relatively limited, at least until I can see him jump up to the team first and get actual playing time. If that happens, I’ll be paying a lot more attention to what he does on the court. And if what he’s doing is working… I really like Cleveland’s chances to be a consistent powerhouse in the East with him, Garland and Mobley being the future of the franchise.

To me, his potential is between a useful high usage scoring bench guy to a role player who can shoot spot-ups.

He has a lot of things he needs to improve to get to either of these posts (defense, attention, shot selection, etc.) and I think he probably will be most valuable in the 8-11 spot on the bench even if improves in all areas. He's a ways away currently, but I think he showed in summer league that he can be a team player (the contrary is a lot of the reason he dropped in the first place).

He's so so so raw.

I posted this in a thread on the GB but will put it here. It's clear that Emoni has not had much structured basketball up to this point. Both yesterday and during Summer League he just runs around the court like crazy without really knowing what he's doing.

Multiple times yesterday I saw him cut right into the lane of a Cavs ball handler.

He's obviously a very talented scorer but he's got a long way to go before being a contributor to winning games

He nearly won that game by making a ridiculous shot with 2 seconds left and he seems to learn fast, so, I'm still not going to insist I know what he can or cannot do. I mean Boobie Gibson started multiple games for us in the NBA finals and even got us to the finals when the Pistons decided their best chance of stopping LeBron was to cheat off him.

The mistakes are going to happen, the question is whether JBB will find a way to use his talent.

[jasonxxx102]

I’m trying really hard not to get too hyped but man he can shoot it’s deadly

[ijspeelman]

I’m trying really hard not to get too hyped but man he can shoot it’s deadly

He's a great prospect that I want to see round out his game a bit more. Looks a little lost with defense and some of the smaller things on offense (seeing the floor, off-ball movement, etc).

He has potential to be a starting SF on our team, but realistically he'll probably be a scoring bench piece.

[JonFromVA]

I’m trying really hard not to get too hyped but man he can shoot it’s deadly

He's a great prospect that I want to see round out his game a bit more. Looks a little lost with defense and some of the smaller things on offense (seeing the floor, off-ball movement, etc).

He has potential to be a starting SF on our team, but realistically he'll probably be a scoring bench piece.

Most rookies look lost on defense, you just hope they start picking things up and stop making the same mistakes.

If the team thought he might contribute this season, it would be very important to let him fight through those teething pains so his defense, court awareness, and chemistry have a chance to climb out of the danger zone.

[mcfly1204]

I'd love to eat crow when it comes to Bates. The lack of drive in college was my biggest concern. When you factor in his below average wingspan and average athleticism, he just didn't seem worth it.

[JonFromVA]

I'd love to eat crow when it comes to Bates. The lack of drive in college was my biggest concern. When you factor in his below average wingspan and average athleticism, he just didn't seem worth it.

Too many red flags to go in the lottery, but we just saw the #6 pick in the draft Anthony Black who is 4 days older than Emoni and did little more than show some hops in our game (4pts and 4reb in 15min).

At the draft combine, Black was 30lbs heavier than Bates, but he's 2.5" shorter, and his wingspan was 1.5" shorter. Which is not a problem for Black if he develops as a PG, but as a SG he's not really bringing much of anything least of all shooting.

Most those guys (even the lottery picks) are going to need to prove they have an NBA level talent before whatever else they can add to that will matter. Bates, otoh, needs to be allowed to physically develop while somehow staying engaged. Now that there's something actually on the line (his career in the NBA), it's likely that will provide the motivation that he didn't feel in HS and College to go beyond just doing whatever he felt like doing.

btw, Did anyone pay any attention to who Indiana took with that precious #1 we gave up for Caris LeVert?

They drafted a 22 year old out of Belmont named Ben Sheppard who didn't do much of anything his first two seasons in College, but developed his shot and is projected as a 3&D wing, but he measured in at 194lbs with a 6'7 3/4" wingspan.

Anyway, Emoni isn't going to fail because of his wingspan - it's fine at 6'9" - but given how thin he is we really should be thinking more about what he might do with his 8'9" standing reach and how that will help him get his own shot off and should help him contest opposing shooters.

[JonFromVA]

Something that stuck out to me watching his highlights from the Maccabi game is how easy it was to get Bates a 3pt shot. I also loved seeing Niang sacrifice his own shot to create a wide open shot for Bates.

Watch on YouTube

At about :05 Niang sets that weakside screen opening up an easy pass and corner 3 for Bates.

At :27 we see a simple defensive rotation but the closeout to the corner wasn't fast enough to deter let alone stop Bates sinking another corner 3.

At :33 a Cavs player cuts to the paint causing Emoni's man to hesitate and consider giving help, meanwhile Emoni relocates and that buys him plenty of time to sink his shot.

It's like we're seeing the gravity field being created around the formation of a protostar.

[JonFromVA]

So, for those suspecting he was going to need a couple of season in the G-League just to get stronger and get a clue how to play organized basketball, Emoni puts up 9 & 6 with a block and buried three 3's in just the 4th game of the season. The Knicks are a physical team, but he did not look over matched and his length was a positive in multiple instances. He even showed some potential as a shot creator, albeit just 1 assist to show for it.

His -9 in the game was definitely not a bright spot, but everybody who got more than 20 minutes in the game was as bad or worse.

He looks ready to at least get the sort of development minutes a first round pick who isn't embarrassing himself would get.