Game 4: Knicks @ Cavs 10/31/2023

[afarmenian]

No worries, guys, just getting picked apart by mid team again. Coaching great. Shooting great. Stars are chilling big west coast road trip incoming nothing to panic about.

Again, when you want to start living in the real world let us know.

Let me know what the real world is Ten game winning streak incoming with a flawed and injured soft roster?

[Iwasawitness]

No worries, guys, just getting picked apart by mid team again. Coaching great. Shooting great. Stars are chilling big west coast road trip incoming nothing to panic about.

Again, when you want to start living in the real world let us know.

Let me know what the real world is Ten game winning streak incoming with a flawed and injured soft roster?

What kind of a response even is this? What on earth are you expecting the Cavaliers to do? Beat the team that already has matchup advantages on them with two starters, their sixth man and the backup PG missing? Are you not even aware of that being the case? That's the only explanation I can think of as to why you would be acting this way. Either that or you haven't watched basketball at all up until this season, and are not aware of the concept that when a team has multiple key players injured (two of them being all stars just two years ago), they are usually going to struggle mightily.

You want to call yourself a fan but you're coming off more as a troll who actually hates the team.

[JujitsuFlip]

I stopped paying full attention but looks like the 2nd half has been less competitive.

[afarmenian]

Again, when you want to start living in the real world let us know.

Let me know what the real world is Ten game winning streak incoming with a flawed and injured soft roster?

What kind of a response even is this? What on earth are you expecting the Cavaliers to do? Beat the team that already has matchup advantages on them with two starters, their sixth man and the backup PG missing? Are you not even aware of that being the case? That's the only explanation I can think of as to why you would be acting this way. Either that or you haven't watched basketball at all up until this season, and are not aware of the concept that when a team has multiple key players injured (two of them being all stars just two years ago), they are usually going to struggle mightily.

You want to call yourself a fan but you're coming off more as a troll who actually hates the team.

Love my cavs but I just call it like it is. You are full of excuses and your attitude reflects the soft nature of what's wrong with the cavs. They aren't very good. Closer to a 500 team than a contender. Since the 8-1 start its a 55 percent win rate. It's medicore at best. Will be fine to ear crow at the end of the year but this is a low seed play in team at best. Feel free to refute any of that with facts and not personal attacks neophyte

[Iwasawitness]

A blowout is honestly what I was expecting, but not what I was hoping for. I have a feeling the same thing is going to happen tomorrow too if Garland and LeVert continue to miss time. They just don't have anyone to effectively run the offense and it shows.

[Iwasawitness]

Love my cavs but I just call it like it is. You are full of excuses and your attitude reflects the soft nature of what's wrong with the cavs. They aren't very good. Closer to a 500 team than a contender. Since the 8-1 start its a 55 percent win rate. It's medicore at best. Will be fine to ear crow at the end of the year but this is a low seed play in team at best. Feel free to refute any of that with facts and not personal attacks neophyte

I tried refuting what you said with facts and that got me no where. You're claiming that a team missing multiple starters and rotation players should somehow be winning games against fully healthy playoff opponents. Like, at that point what do you expect me to say? You're calling it like it is? No you're not. What you're saying is nonsensical and devoid of merit. If it's not trolling, then you have no clue what you're talking about. So which is it?

[JujitsuFlip]

Brobley comes in and then immediately gets injured, wow.

[Iwasawitness]

So, are Knicks fans always this toxic? Quite a few are bragging about this win like they accomplished something. They're coming off as clueless and ignorant as this afarmenian guy is.

[JujitsuFlip]

So, are Knicks fans always this toxic? Quite a few are bragging about this win like they accomplished something. They're coming off as clueless and ignorant as this afarmenian guy is.

They were insufferable back in April but I made sure they heard about it 6 games later lol

[Iwasawitness]

So, are Knicks fans always this toxic? Quite a few are bragging about this win like they accomplished something. They're coming off as clueless and ignorant as this afarmenian guy is.

They were insufferable back in April but I made sure they heard about it 6 games later lol

Good man.

I think we can all agree that the Cavs are probably going to get stomped tomorrow too. I expect Friday against Indiana to be when things will begin to turn around and head in the right direction for the team. We just really need to get healthy.

[JujitsuFlip]

Well, JB finally played 10 guys 10+ minutes, just happened to be in a blowout.

Not that it should have to be said but kudos to JB for keeping everyone's minutes down on the first night of a back2back and first game of a 3n4.

That was the good, the bad is, even healthy, I am not confident JB could beat the Knicks 4 out of 7 times. Iknow the Cavs are depleted by injuries but finally watching a game, from a scheme perspective, that ain't it.

[afarmenian]

Love my cavs but I just call it like it is. You are full of excuses and your attitude reflects the soft nature of what's wrong with the cavs. They aren't very good. Closer to a 500 team than a contender. Since the 8-1 start its a 55 percent win rate. It's medicore at best. Will be fine to ear crow at the end of the year but this is a low seed play in team at best. Feel free to refute any of that with facts and not personal attacks neophyte

I tried refuting what you said with facts and that got me no where. You're claiming that a team missing multiple starters and rotation players should somehow be winning games against fully healthy playoff opponents. Like, at that point what do you expect me to say? You're calling it like it is? No you're not. What you're saying is nonsensical and devoid of merit. If it's not trolling, then you have no clue what you're talking about. So which is it?

Pacers not a playoff opponent. Thunder not a playoff opponent. You want a mulligan because the teams Injured. It doesn't work that way and frankly the fact that nobody is questioning why the young core of this team is constantly missing games with minor injuries reflects on how soft this organization and fan base really is.

This isn't lebron veteran just get to the playoffs oldest team in the league. It's a compilation of guys that should be in the prime of their career sitting in jogging pants while our all in player superstar goes at it alone.

You must he the biggest homer sheep in sports history not to be seriously concerned with the state of the organization

[JujitsuFlip]

Love my cavs but I just call it like it is. You are full of excuses and your attitude reflects the soft nature of what's wrong with the cavs. They aren't very good. Closer to a 500 team than a contender. Since the 8-1 start its a 55 percent win rate. It's medicore at best. Will be fine to ear crow at the end of the year but this is a low seed play in team at best. Feel free to refute any of that with facts and not personal attacks neophyte

I tried refuting what you said with facts and that got me no where. You're claiming that a team missing multiple starters and rotation players should somehow be winning games against fully healthy playoff opponents. Like, at that point what do you expect me to say? You're calling it like it is? No you're not. What you're saying is nonsensical and devoid of merit. If it's not trolling, then you have no clue what you're talking about. So which is it?

Pacers not a playoff opponent. Thunder not a playoff opponent. You want a mulligan because the teams Injured. It doesn't work that way and frankly the fact that nobody is questioning why the young core of this team is constantly missing games with minor injuries reflects on how soft this organization and fan base really is.

This isn't lebron veteran just get to the playoffs oldest team in the league. It's a compilation of guys that should be in the prime of their career sitting in jogging pants while our all in player superstar goes at it alone.

You must he the biggest homer sheep in sports history not to be seriously concerned with the state of the organization

I personally don't think the injuries are fake.

Garland goes into game 1 with a hurt hammy and JB proceeds to play him 32 minutes, been out since.

LeVert plays 44 minutes, pulls his hammy, even with 2 days rest couldn't go.

Mitchell plays 42 minutes, requires an IV, pulls his hammy and then takes almost a week to return.

Allen got hurt in practice, bruised his ankle before the season even started, so maybe too intense of a practice and has been out 3+ weeks.

Who knows what even happened with TJ.

So, to me, it points to a coach over playing guys, due to his own incompetence and trust issues. It is up to him to manage minutes, it is one of his biggest knocks. So much so, he publicly addressed it this summer, saying he would change.

[afarmenian]

I tried refuting what you said with facts and that got me no where. You're claiming that a team missing multiple starters and rotation players should somehow be winning games against fully healthy playoff opponents. Like, at that point what do you expect me to say? You're calling it like it is? No you're not. What you're saying is nonsensical and devoid of merit. If it's not trolling, then you have no clue what you're talking about. So which is it?

Pacers not a playoff opponent. Thunder not a playoff opponent. You want a mulligan because the teams Injured. It doesn't work that way and frankly the fact that nobody is questioning why the young core of this team is constantly missing games with minor injuries reflects on how soft this organization and fan base really is.

This isn't lebron veteran just get to the playoffs oldest team in the league. It's a compilation of guys that should be in the prime of their career sitting in jogging pants while our all in player superstar goes at it alone.

You must he the biggest homer sheep in sports history not to be seriously concerned with the state of the organization

I personally don't think the injuries are fake.

Garland goes into game 1 with a hurt hammy and JB proceeds to play him 32 minutes, been out since.

LeVert plays 44 minutes, pulls his hammy, even with 2 days rest couldn't go.

Mitchell plays 42 minutes, requires an IV, pulls his hammy and then takes almost a week to return.

Allen got hurt in practice, bruised his ankle before the season even started, so maybe too intense of a practice and has been out 3+ weeks.

Who knows what even happened with TJ.

So, to me, it points to a coach over playing guys, due to his own incompetence and trust issues. It is up to him to manage minutes, it is one of his biggest knocks. So much so, he publicly addressed it this summer, saying he would change.

Don't get me wrong not saying any injuries are fake that would be an absurd claim. But to have this many injuries for 20 something players in the first week.....it just stinks. You don't get the feeling these guys are chomping at the bit to Play either

[jbk1234]

Well, JB finally played 10 guys 10+ minutes, just happened to be in a blowout.

Not that it should have to be said but kudos to JB for keeping everyone's minutes down on the first night of a back2back and first game of a 3n4.

That was the good, the bad is, even healthy, I am not confident JB could beat the Knicks 4 out of 7 times. Iknow the Cavs are depleted by injuries but finally watching a game, from a scheme perspective, that ain't it.

It's just impossible to say with Rubio out, our third string PG out, and the F.O. thinking two third-string centers equates to a legit backup center. I think it's fair to say that no one would confuse me with a JBB apologist, but when two two-players, Merrill, TT, and even I. Mobley see the floor against the second unit of one of the deeper teams in the NBA, well this is how it's going to go.

There are silver linings in terms of CPJ and Bates getting run while the game still matters. Niang clearly needs to play himself back into shape. TT isn't useless. The idea that we can trade Garland or Allen without losing much can die a quick death. The two glaring holes 6-10 are indeed glaring in a way that got papered over playing lesser competition to start the season last year, and overplaying starters last year.

But again, you're not beating good competition while missing two starters, who were good enough to be named to an all star team, especially without having legitimate backups at their positions.

[JujitsuFlip]

Pacers not a playoff opponent. Thunder not a playoff opponent. You want a mulligan because the teams Injured. It doesn't work that way and frankly the fact that nobody is questioning why the young core of this team is constantly missing games with minor injuries reflects on how soft this organization and fan base really is.

This isn't lebron veteran just get to the playoffs oldest team in the league. It's a compilation of guys that should be in the prime of their career sitting in jogging pants while our all in player superstar goes at it alone.

You must he the biggest homer sheep in sports history not to be seriously concerned with the state of the organization

I personally don't think the injuries are fake.

Garland goes into game 1 with a hurt hammy and JB proceeds to play him 32 minutes, been out since.

LeVert plays 44 minutes, pulls his hammy, even with 2 days rest couldn't go.

Mitchell plays 42 minutes, requires an IV, pulls his hammy and then takes almost a week to return.

Allen got hurt in practice, bruised his ankle before the season even started, so maybe too intense of a practice and has been out 3+ weeks.

Who knows what even happened with TJ.

So, to me, it points to a coach over playing guys, due to his own incompetence and trust issues. It is up to him to manage minutes, it is one of his biggest knocks. So much so, he publicly addressed it this summer, saying he would change.

Don't get me wrong not saying any injuries are fake that would be an absurd claim. But to have this many injuries for 20 something players in the first week.....it just stinks. You don't get the feeling these guys are chomping at the bit to Play either

I think they are man, they just know given who the head coach is, if they get an active designation they have to be prepared to go 40+ minutes. I think with that in mind, it's tough. I know I personally wouldn't wanna go from not playing to playing 40+ minutes on back to back nights on a bum hammy or bum ankle.

These guys should be on minutes restrictions and/or rest on the first or second night of B2B to manage the injuries.

I personally place the blame on JB (or the medical staff), not on the players being soft or uncompetitive.

[JujitsuFlip]

Well, JB finally played 10 guys 10+ minutes, just happened to be in a blowout.

Not that it should have to be said but kudos to JB for keeping everyone's minutes down on the first night of a back2back and first game of a 3n4.

That was the good, the bad is, even healthy, I am not confident JB could beat the Knicks 4 out of 7 times. Iknow the Cavs are depleted by injuries but finally watching a game, from a scheme perspective, that ain't it.

It's just impossible to say with Rubio out, our third string PG out, and the F.O. thinking two third-string centers equates to a legit backup center. I think it's fair to say that no one would confuse me with a JBB apologist, but when two two-players, Merrill, TT, and even I. Mobley see the floor against the second unit of one of the deeper teams in the NBA, well this is how it's going to go.

There are silver linings in terms of CPJ and Bates getting run while the game still matters. Niang clearly needs to play himself back into shape. TT isn't useless. The idea that we can trade Garland or Allen without losing much can die a quick death. The two glaring holes 6-10 are indeed glaring in a way that got papered over playing lesser competition to start the season last year, and overplaying starters last year.

But again, you're not beating good competition while missing two starters, who were good enough to be named to an all star team, especially without having legitimate backups at their positions.

Yeah, idc so much about the margin in a game like this, the fact they were competitive in the 1st half was a good sight to see.

I'm more so just talking about the actions themselves, on both sides, it won't work against the Knicks. The only possible chance is having a guy like LeBron who could just do it all. Obviously this team lacks that type of player.

If JB doesn't get fired prior to the playoffs, I'll just cross my fingers we don't matchup with them in the 1st round again. JB has zero idea how to exploit that team, he plays right into their hands with his schemes or lack thereof.

[jbk1234]

Well, JB finally played 10 guys 10+ minutes, just happened to be in a blowout.

Not that it should have to be said but kudos to JB for keeping everyone's minutes down on the first night of a back2back and first game of a 3n4.

That was the good, the bad is, even healthy, I am not confident JB could beat the Knicks 4 out of 7 times. Iknow the Cavs are depleted by injuries but finally watching a game, from a scheme perspective, that ain't it.

It's just impossible to say with Rubio out, our third string PG out, and the F.O. thinking two third-string centers equates to a legit backup center. I think it's fair to say that no one would confuse me with a JBB apologist, but when two two-players, Merrill, TT, and even I. Mobley see the floor against the second unit of one of the deeper teams in the NBA, well this is how it's going to go.

There are silver linings in terms of CPJ and Bates getting run while the game still matters. Niang clearly needs to play himself back into shape. TT isn't useless. The idea that we can trade Garland or Allen without losing much can die a quick death. The two glaring holes 6-10 are indeed glaring in a way that got papered over playing lesser competition to start the season last year, and overplaying starters last year.

But again, you're not beating good competition while missing two starters, who were good enough to be named to an all star team, especially without having legitimate backups at their positions.

Yeah, idc so much about the margin in a game like this, the fact they were competitive in the 1st half was a good sight to see.

I'm more so just talking about the actions themselves, on both sides, it won't work against the Knicks. The only possible chance is having a guy like LeBron who could just do it all. Obviously this team lacks that type of player.

If JB doesn't get fired prior to the playoffs, I'll just cross my fingers we don't matchup with them in the 1st round again. JB has zero idea how to exploit that team, he plays right into their hands with his schemes or lack thereof.

I mean who would execute that scheme? CPJ in his second NBA game? Mitchell is a great SG, but he's a SG. Multiple players missing multiple open 3s is hard to offset.

The most impressive quarter by any Cavs player in the playoffs, to me anyway, was the third quarter in the 4th game when Garland figured out exactly how far M. Robinson was willing to come out of drop coverage and just yo-yo'd him. It scared Thibs enough to bring McBride off the bench and play 3 on 5 offensively. That's where JBB needs a counter ready, but we weren't anywhere near there tonight.

[JujitsuFlip]

It's just impossible to say with Rubio out, our third string PG out, and the F.O. thinking two third-string centers equates to a legit backup center. I think it's fair to say that no one would confuse me with a JBB apologist, but when two two-players, Merrill, TT, and even I. Mobley see the floor against the second unit of one of the deeper teams in the NBA, well this is how it's going to go.

There are silver linings in terms of CPJ and Bates getting run while the game still matters. Niang clearly needs to play himself back into shape. TT isn't useless. The idea that we can trade Garland or Allen without losing much can die a quick death. The two glaring holes 6-10 are indeed glaring in a way that got papered over playing lesser competition to start the season last year, and overplaying starters last year.

But again, you're not beating good competition while missing two starters, who were good enough to be named to an all star team, especially without having legitimate backups at their positions.

Yeah, idc so much about the margin in a game like this, the fact they were competitive in the 1st half was a good sight to see.

I'm more so just talking about the actions themselves, on both sides, it won't work against the Knicks. The only possible chance is having a guy like LeBron who could just do it all. Obviously this team lacks that type of player.

If JB doesn't get fired prior to the playoffs, I'll just cross my fingers we don't matchup with them in the 1st round again. JB has zero idea how to exploit that team, he plays right into their hands with his schemes or lack thereof.

I mean who would execute that scheme? CPJ in his second NBA game? Mitchell is a great SG, but he's a SG. Multiple players missing multiple open 3s is hard to offset.

The most impressive quarter by any Cavs player in the playoffs, to me anyway, was the third quarter in the 4th game when Garland figured out exactly how far M. Robinson was willing to come out of drop coverage and just yo-yo'd him. It scared Thibs enough to bring McBride off the bench and play 3 on 5 offensively. That's where JBB needs a counter ready, but we weren't anywhere near there tonight.

I'm saying it doesn't matter if you had the dream team, the Monstars, or me and the golden girls. Schematically it wasn't personnel that was lacking, the scheme itself is still flawed.

The guys are still in poor rebounding position due to heavy shot contests, Mitchell was still getting trapped at half court without any idea where to place the ball, and the Knicks were still off and running in space. If that is the game plan, it sucks and it got us bounced in 5 games.

Maybe he's playing coy and trying to save something for tonight or even the playoffs but I have never viewed JB as a very tactful guy. Thibs will easily be able to win 4 of 7 times again, with JB's lack of adjustments after 6 months.

[jbk1234]

Yeah, idc so much about the margin in a game like this, the fact they were competitive in the 1st half was a good sight to see.

I'm more so just talking about the actions themselves, on both sides, it won't work against the Knicks. The only possible chance is having a guy like LeBron who could just do it all. Obviously this team lacks that type of player.

If JB doesn't get fired prior to the playoffs, I'll just cross my fingers we don't matchup with them in the 1st round again. JB has zero idea how to exploit that team, he plays right into their hands with his schemes or lack thereof.

I mean who would execute that scheme? CPJ in his second NBA game? Mitchell is a great SG, but he's a SG. Multiple players missing multiple open 3s is hard to offset.

The most impressive quarter by any Cavs player in the playoffs, to me anyway, was the third quarter in the 4th game when Garland figured out exactly how far M. Robinson was willing to come out of drop coverage and just yo-yo'd him. It scared Thibs enough to bring McBride off the bench and play 3 on 5 offensively. That's where JBB needs a counter ready, but we weren't anywhere near there tonight.

I'm saying it doesn't matter if you had the dream team, the Monstars, or me and the golden girls. Schematically it wasn't personnel that was lacking, the scheme itself is still flawed.

The guys are still in poor rebounding position due to heavy shot contests, Mitchell was still getting trapped at half court without any idea where to place the ball, and the Knicks were still off and running in space. If that is the game plan, it sucks and it got us bounced in 5 games.

Maybe he's playing coy and trying to save something for tonight or even the playoffs but I have never viewed JB as a very tactful guy. Thibs will easily be able to win 4 of 7 times again, with JB's lack of adjustments after 6 months.

Scheme can be personnel dependent. Things are going to look different with Mitchell as the primary ball handler and Strus as the secondary ball handler, or CPJ as the primary ball handler for the second unit. Having a single 7 foot rim protector is very different than having two on the floor.