Game 30: Cavs @ Bulls 12/23/23

[JujitsuFlip]

Mobley - out (still no report on if he had surgery yet)
Garland - out
Mitchell - out w/ illness (probably his shoulder)
TJ - out (i saw ppl call him Windler 2.0, oof)
Rubio - out (has not reported, looking to trade him)
Merrill - out
LeVert - out (late scratch)

[JujitsuFlip]

Despite missing 7 guys, the Cavs get the win! Now time for 3.5 days off.

[ijspeelman]

This game isn’t over, but the fact that we are down 7 players that are mostly in our normal rotation and we are competing is crazy to me

[jbk1234]

I'm glad I watched this game. I was 50/50.

[ijspeelman]

I gotta give a lot of credit to JB and the guys for the stepping up so far. I’ve been waiting for the bottom to fall out and it hasn’t

I’ve been loving the play calling lacking playmakers

[JujitsuFlip]

Jones hit a 3

[JujitsuFlip]

https://youtube.com/shorts/ju72eo4MgtY?si=XYe70RmZsjn80j39

Strus showing off the hops against his former team.

[JonFromVA]

I suspect nobody has a gameplan for how to beat the end of our bench, but I do hope Garland, LeVert and Mitchell realize they don't have to dribble the air out of the ball.

[JujitsuFlip]

I suspect nobody has a gameplan for how to beat the end of our bench, but I do hope Garland, LeVert and Mitchell realize they don't have to dribble the air out of the ball.

Probably has more to do with the level of competition.

Cavs opponent combined record since Mobley, Garland, and Mitchell went down is 42-49.

Cavs opponent combined record since Garland and Mobley went down is 69-78.

[JonFromVA]

I suspect nobody has a gameplan for how to beat the end of our bench, but I do hope Garland, LeVert and Mitchell realize they don't have to dribble the air out of the ball.

Probably has more to do with the level of competition.

Cavs opponent combined record since Mobley, Garland, and Mitchell went down is 42-49.

Cavs opponent combined record since Garland and Mobley went down is 69-78.

Partially that, partially improved spacing, partially how bad some of these teams are defensively ... but mostly these guys are willing to move the ball, move off the ball, and share.

Don, Darius, and Caris all dribble too much and look for their own shot to keep their PPG up and IMO it takes a toll.

Everybody's game is expanding in the wake of the vacuum left by those players absence and you get a glimpse of what might be if we tried to get the most out of everybody.

Sometimes lessons have to be learned the hard way, and I just hope they're all seeing what could be if everyone is engaged rather than pigeonholed in to limited roles.

[JujitsuFlip]

I suspect nobody has a gameplan for how to beat the end of our bench, but I do hope Garland, LeVert and Mitchell realize they don't have to dribble the air out of the ball.

Probably has more to do with the level of competition.

Cavs opponent combined record since Mobley, Garland, and Mitchell went down is 42-49.

Cavs opponent combined record since Garland and Mobley went down is 69-78.

Partially that, partially improved spacing, partially how bad some of these teams are defensively ... but mostly these guys are willing to move the ball, move off the ball, and share.

Don, Darius, and Caris all dribble too much and look for their own shot to keep their PPG up and IMO it takes a toll.

Everybody's game is expanding in the wake of the vacuum left by those players absence and you get a glimpse of what might be if we tried to get the most out of everybody.

Sometimes lessons have to be learned the hard way, and I just hope they're all seeing what could be if everyone is engaged rather than pigeonholed in to limited roles.

At the end of the day, that falls on the head coach. It is his job to get people to buy in.

[JonFromVA]

Probably has more to do with the level of competition.

Cavs opponent combined record since Mobley, Garland, and Mitchell went down is 42-49.

Cavs opponent combined record since Garland and Mobley went down is 69-78.

Partially that, partially improved spacing, partially how bad some of these teams are defensively ... but mostly these guys are willing to move the ball, move off the ball, and share.

Don, Darius, and Caris all dribble too much and look for their own shot to keep their PPG up and IMO it takes a toll.

Everybody's game is expanding in the wake of the vacuum left by those players absence and you get a glimpse of what might be if we tried to get the most out of everybody.

Sometimes lessons have to be learned the hard way, and I just hope they're all seeing what could be if everyone is engaged rather than pigeonholed in to limited roles.

At the end of the day, that falls on the head coach. It is his job to get people to buy in.

A big part, but not all the responsibility. Players have to believe change is necessary and a true leader on the floor can help make sure teammates are empowered and involved unless the coach benches them for trying something outside their "role".

[JujitsuFlip]

Partially that, partially improved spacing, partially how bad some of these teams are defensively ... but mostly these guys are willing to move the ball, move off the ball, and share.

Don, Darius, and Caris all dribble too much and look for their own shot to keep their PPG up and IMO it takes a toll.

Everybody's game is expanding in the wake of the vacuum left by those players absence and you get a glimpse of what might be if we tried to get the most out of everybody.

Sometimes lessons have to be learned the hard way, and I just hope they're all seeing what could be if everyone is engaged rather than pigeonholed in to limited roles.

At the end of the day, that falls on the head coach. It is his job to get people to buy in.

A big part, but not all the responsibility. Players have to believe change is necessary and a true leader on the floor can help make sure teammates are empowered and involved unless the coach benches them for trying something outside their "role".

I'm just saying Jb has to be very okay with the iso heavy offense, or he would do something to change it.

With Don, Garland, Vert, and to a significantly lesser extent Mobley out, no one on the roster wants to go iso.

[toooskies]

At the end of the day, that falls on the head coach. It is his job to get people to buy in.

A big part, but not all the responsibility. Players have to believe change is necessary and a true leader on the floor can help make sure teammates are empowered and involved unless the coach benches them for trying something outside their "role".

I'm just saying Jb has to be very okay with the iso heavy offense, or he would do something to change it.

With Don, Garland, Vert, and to a significantly lesser extent Mobley out, no one on the roster wants to go iso.

JBB does not believe he's the boss of the players, he believes at best a partner in helping them succeed. He learned that by being an assistant coach that was often younger than the players he was working with.

In a league where status matters and endorsements are on the line, convincing Mitchell and Garland that it's in their best interests to play within the system is hard. Honestly it may not even be actually true-- Mitchell may be personally better off trying to get an All-NBA slot than be generous with the ball and lead the team to five more regular season wins.

And it becomes even harder to coach when you have to dance around the will-Donovan-want-to-stay narratives, the will-Mobley-ever-make-the-leap discussions, and so on.

It's not as easy as just going up to them and asking them to adjust and then they earnestly try to do that. Yes, it's his job to get the most out of his players. But it's collaborative and not always a smooth ride.

[JujitsuFlip]

A big part, but not all the responsibility. Players have to believe change is necessary and a true leader on the floor can help make sure teammates are empowered and involved unless the coach benches them for trying something outside their "role".

I'm just saying Jb has to be very okay with the iso heavy offense, or he would do something to change it.

With Don, Garland, Vert, and to a significantly lesser extent Mobley out, no one on the roster wants to go iso.

JBB does not believe he's the boss of the players, he believes at best a partner in helping them succeed. He learned that by being an assistant coach that was often younger than the players he was working with.

In a league where status matters and endorsements are on the line, convincing Mitchell and Garland that it's in their best interests to play within the system is hard. Honestly it may not even be actually true-- Mitchell may be personally better off trying to get an All-NBA slot than be generous with the ball and lead the team to five more regular season wins.

And it becomes even harder to coach when you have to dance around the will-Donovan-want-to-stay narratives, the will-Mobley-ever-make-the-leap discussions, and so on.

It's not as easy as just going up to them and asking them to adjust and then they earnestly try to do that. Yes, it's his job to get the most out of his players. But it's collaborative and not always a smooth ride.

We need a guy who will do that very thing. We don't need a cheerleader or a guy being their friend. They can hate the head coach for all i care, if it brings post season success, that's all that matters, to me.

From almost every insider, Mitch has no intention of staying here. If they wanna see how Mobley and Garland heal and give it 1 more shot, so be it.

No one said it's easy but it is still what needs to happen, not just some clueless guy on the sideline yelling at refs.

[toooskies]

I'm just saying Jb has to be very okay with the iso heavy offense, or he would do something to change it.

With Don, Garland, Vert, and to a significantly lesser extent Mobley out, no one on the roster wants to go iso.

JBB does not believe he's the boss of the players, he believes at best a partner in helping them succeed. He learned that by being an assistant coach that was often younger than the players he was working with.

In a league where status matters and endorsements are on the line, convincing Mitchell and Garland that it's in their best interests to play within the system is hard. Honestly it may not even be actually true-- Mitchell may be personally better off trying to get an All-NBA slot than be generous with the ball and lead the team to five more regular season wins.

And it becomes even harder to coach when you have to dance around the will-Donovan-want-to-stay narratives, the will-Mobley-ever-make-the-leap discussions, and so on.

It's not as easy as just going up to them and asking them to adjust and then they earnestly try to do that. Yes, it's his job to get the most out of his players. But it's collaborative and not always a smooth ride.

We need a guy who will do that very thing. We don't need a cheerleader or a guy being their friend. They can hate the head coach for all i care, if it brings post season success, that's all that matters, to me.

From almost every insider, Mitch has no intention of staying here. If they wanna see how Mobley and Garland heal and give it 1 more shot, so be it.

No one said it's easy but it is still what needs to happen, not just some clueless guy on the sideline yelling at refs.

4-1 without two or three of his best players shows you that he's not "clueless". And maybe he gets more buy-in from the stars after seeing the team have success without them.

[JujitsuFlip]

JBB does not believe he's the boss of the players, he believes at best a partner in helping them succeed. He learned that by being an assistant coach that was often younger than the players he was working with.

In a league where status matters and endorsements are on the line, convincing Mitchell and Garland that it's in their best interests to play within the system is hard. Honestly it may not even be actually true-- Mitchell may be personally better off trying to get an All-NBA slot than be generous with the ball and lead the team to five more regular season wins.

And it becomes even harder to coach when you have to dance around the will-Donovan-want-to-stay narratives, the will-Mobley-ever-make-the-leap discussions, and so on.

It's not as easy as just going up to them and asking them to adjust and then they earnestly try to do that. Yes, it's his job to get the most out of his players. But it's collaborative and not always a smooth ride.

We need a guy who will do that very thing. We don't need a cheerleader or a guy being their friend. They can hate the head coach for all i care, if it brings post season success, that's all that matters, to me.

From almost every insider, Mitch has no intention of staying here. If they wanna see how Mobley and Garland heal and give it 1 more shot, so be it.

No one said it's easy but it is still what needs to happen, not just some clueless guy on the sideline yelling at refs.

4-1 without two or three of his best players shows you that he's not "clueless". And maybe he gets more buy-in from the stars after seeing the team have success without them.

I see no additional buy-in, Mitchell has been playing this way for 7 seasons straight.

I mean 44-38 was the same thing. He can motivate guys to play hard, that has never been a question.

His biggest question has always been Xs and Os and reigning guys in.

I also saw Brett Brown and Mark Jackson have 50+ win seasons and lose in the 2nd round, doesn't mean firing them was the wrong answer, it was the exact right answer. Sometimes ya gotta get a different voice/ideology in the locker room.

[jbk1234]

We've been playing bad defensive teams and fans need to account for that reality because some of these guys are going to come crashing down to earth when we role out Allen, Strus, and bench squads against good defensive teams. Once opposing teams start watching tape and learning tendencies, there could be a considerable drop off.

What the current run demonstrates is that our bench is more capable against weaker opponents than they've been given credit for by the coaching staff. That should inform future decisions regarding minutes over the course of an 82 game season. If you can cut the starters minutes back, you can run an offense that is more motion oriented, but Garland and Mitchell will still be the most efficient weapons on the floor and the goal should be to make the other team pay for tilting their defenses too heavily.

[JonFromVA]

We've been playing bad defensive teams and fans need to account for that reality because some of these guys are going to come crashing down to earth when we role out Allen, Strus, and bench squads against good defensive teams. Once opposing teams start watching tape and learning tendencies, there could be a considerable drop off.

What the current run demonstrates is that our bench is more capable against weaker opponents than they've been given credit for by the coaching staff. That should inform future decisions regarding minutes over the course of an 82 game season. If you can cut the starters minutes back, you can run an offense that is more motion oriented, but Garland and Mitchell will still be the most efficient weapons on the floor and the goal should be to make the other team pay for tilting their defenses too heavily.

That's the problem, Mitchell, Garland, and LeVert have not been the most efficient players and they are becoming very predictable. They will be unstoppable at times, but when they're off their game for whatever reason it hurts.

Make the defense worry about 5 players and the game gets easier for everyone. More open shots for shooters, more lanes to drive, easier path to grab offensive rebounds, etc.

A simple motion system works best against ill prepared opponents, but keeping everyone engaged and involved works against everyone.

[jbk1234]

All other things being equal, a motion offense is better than ISO or PNR. That said, four out of the six teams ahead of us in the East play a drop-coverage defense anchored by a 7 footer and the Heat employ a lot of zone. Those defenses are designed to limit the efficacy of movement offenses.

What's important is to be offensively versatile. That can mean switching to a motion offense, it can mean Mitchell driving if the officials are calling the game a certain way, it can mean Garland performing surgery against drop-coverage, or it can mean putting one of Allen or Mobley on the bench and shooting over a zone.

What distresses me is not having counters in place for when the defense tilts heavily to one of Garland or Mitchell and I think that starts with less staggering of their minutes. Whether it's overplaying the passing lanes, meeting the ball handler at half court, or doubling the ball handler out of the PNR, the opposing team is taking a risk, and we rarely are able to make them pay for it.