Game 68: Cavs @ Pacers 3/18/2024

[JujitsuFlip]

I don't consider myself to be a savant when it comes to perception, but it sure appears to me that JBB leaves them out there until they're exhausted, and sometimes adds a few minutes for good measure. He's also pretty bad a making sure there's something left in the tank for the end of games.

That has always been his issue, it is compounded by him being bad at making sure there's something left in the tank for the end of the season.

The guy literally blamed the players for not having conditioning that was up to par after he ran them into the ground, in the Knicks series. If i was Jb's boss and heard that, i would fire him immediately for the lack of accountability from a leader. And if i was Jb's bosses boss and he didn't fire him after i heard those comments, i would fire them both for being spineless and lacking what it takes to win in the NBA, when it counts.

But you'll never get anywhere with Jb apologists, there's always an excuse.

The problem is you're simultaneously criticizing JBB for
- not having his star players in good enough shape to not get tired on an ordinary star player load of 35-36 minutes a game (which is where Garland and Allen are since the ASB)
- playing his players too much

You know how you get in better shape? Either you do a ton of off-court cardio, or you play through being tired in games. One or the other. But a lot of it is part of the physical maturation process that older guys can manage better than younger guys.

No, you completely missed the point.

The entire point is play more guys and don't run them into the ground, messaging I've been very consistent on through the years.

To blame that series loss on his player's conditioning is a flat out coward move and the dude said it with a straight face wholeheartedly believing his own BS.

How about play more guys Jb? How about gameplan better in the 10 days leading up to the series so your players aren't getting beat up all series?

As I've said, i have zero confidence in Jb to ever have post season success. Until he's gone the Cavs are a treadmill team, stuck in limbo.

Ik the rebuttal is gonna be wait until next month, which I'm fine with. Let's wait until next month to watch the same BS for the 3rd season in a row. Issue is there will still be an excuse if/when they bow out early.

[jbk1234]

I don't consider myself to be a savant when it comes to perception, but it sure appears to me that JBB leaves them out there until they're exhausted, and sometimes adds a few minutes for good measure. He's also pretty bad a making sure there's something left in the tank for the end of games.

That has always been his issue, it is compounded by him being bad at making sure there's something left in the tank for the end of the season.

The guy literally blamed the players for not having conditioning that was up to par after he ran them into the ground, in the Knicks series. If i was Jb's boss and heard that, i would fire him immediately for the lack of accountability from a leader. And if i was Jb's bosses boss and he didn't fire him after i heard those comments, i would fire them both for being spineless and lacking what it takes to win in the NBA, when it counts.

But you'll never get anywhere with Jb apologists, there's always an excuse.

The problem is you're simultaneously criticizing JBB for
- not having his star players in good enough shape to not get tired on an ordinary star player load of 35-36 minutes a game (which is where Garland and Allen are since the ASB)
- playing his players too much

You know how you get in better shape? Either you do a ton of off-court cardio, or you play through being tired in games. One or the other. But a lot of it is part of the physical maturation process that older guys can manage better than younger guys.

This is all fine and good but the learn to play tired has some pretty serious limitations. First, dead legs are dead legs. You can learn to play through lactic acid build up, to the point of throwing up to rid your body of stomach acid, but it doesn't follow that the accuracy on your jump shot will remain the same.

Second, there's always the risk of injury. Even guys like Strus and Mitchell, who fit the Ironman prototype, are subject to the physical limitations of tendons, cartilage, etc. LBJ had no problem shutting himself down during the regular season in order to avoid injury. If you have players who struggle to be proactive when it comes to rest, it's your job to do it for them.

Third, not everyone is built for it. It's s the coach's job to know that and adjust accordingly. For all the talk about Heat culture, there are guys on that roster who can't play 40 mpg for multiple games without hitting a serious wall. Spo understands this and doesn't play them 40 mpg.

[JonFromVA]

That has always been his issue, it is compounded by him being bad at making sure there's something left in the tank for the end of the season.

The guy literally blamed the players for not having conditioning that was up to par after he ran them into the ground, in the Knicks series. If i was Jb's boss and heard that, i would fire him immediately for the lack of accountability from a leader. And if i was Jb's bosses boss and he didn't fire him after i heard those comments, i would fire them both for being spineless and lacking what it takes to win in the NBA, when it counts.

But you'll never get anywhere with Jb apologists, there's always an excuse.

The problem is you're simultaneously criticizing JBB for
- not having his star players in good enough shape to not get tired on an ordinary star player load of 35-36 minutes a game (which is where Garland and Allen are since the ASB)
- playing his players too much

You know how you get in better shape? Either you do a ton of off-court cardio, or you play through being tired in games. One or the other. But a lot of it is part of the physical maturation process that older guys can manage better than younger guys.

This is all fine and good but the learn to play tired has some pretty serious limitations. First, dead legs are dead legs. You can learn to play through lactic acid build up, to the point of throwing up to rid your body of stomach acid, but it doesn't follow that the accuracy on your jump shot will remain the same.

Second, there's always the risk of injury. Even guys like Strus and Mitchell, who fit the Ironman prototype, are subject to the physical limitations of tendons, cartilage, etc. LBJ had no problem shutting himself down during the regular season in order to avoid injury. If you have players who struggle to be proactive when it comes to rest, it's your job to do it for them.

Third, not everyone is built for it. It's s the coach's job to know that and adjust accordingly. For all the talk about Heat culture, there are guys on that roster who can't play 40 mpg for multiple games without hitting a serious wall. Spo understands this and doesn't play them 40 mpg.

Shouldn't athletes be building up endurance and stamina outside of the game where their performance can be controlled, monitored, fueled properly?

But the problem is simpler I think.

What's the track record of JBB cutting the rotation and piling up the minutes on the core?

Does the team play at a higher level when he does that? Do they have more energy at the end of games? Do they build up their resistance to injury?

I sure don't think so.

But JBB just isn't going to bet his career on Craig Porter Jr giving him 16 good minutes in the playoffs ... seems he's got himself wrapped up in a nifty catch-22 that won't end until someone running the team unravels the causes & effects going on.

[JujitsuFlip]

But JBB just isn't going to bet his career on Craig Porter Jr giving him 16 good minutes in the playoffs ... seems he's got himself wrapped up in a nifty catch-22 that won't end until someone running the team unravels the causes & effects going on.

Too bad the guy running the front office is an indecisive drunk because it is 100% his call.

Which is also unfortunate because the guy calling the shots for the ownership group is in his mid 20s and knows probably next to nothing about business.

When Mitchell walks for nothing in the summer of 2025 it MIGHT be a wake-up call to the coaching staff, front office, and ownership but I wouldn't hold my breath.

[JonFromVA]

But JBB just isn't going to bet his career on Craig Porter Jr giving him 16 good minutes in the playoffs ... seems he's got himself wrapped up in a nifty catch-22 that won't end until someone running the team unravels the causes & effects going on.

Too bad the guy running the front office is an indecisive drunk because it is 100% his call.

Which is also unfortunate because the guy calling the shots for the ownership group is in his mid 20s and knows probably next to nothing about business.

When Mitchell walks for nothing in the summer of 2025 it MIGHT be a wake-up call to the coaching staff, front office, and ownership but I wouldn't hold my breath.

I don't fear Altman being indecisive and our ability to recruit our next coach will depend how he handles JBB. I fear him being pushed in to doing it without a plan in place that just locks us in to some other guy for 2+ years.

We can do worse than Bickerstaff if we try. A team like the Cavs needs to find right guy at the right time when he's actually available. Finding someone clearly better that wants to coach the team is the tricky thing.

Or else we'll just take another leap of faith on someone with current or past ties to the organization.

[JujitsuFlip]

But JBB just isn't going to bet his career on Craig Porter Jr giving him 16 good minutes in the playoffs ... seems he's got himself wrapped up in a nifty catch-22 that won't end until someone running the team unravels the causes & effects going on.

Too bad the guy running the front office is an indecisive drunk because it is 100% his call.

Which is also unfortunate because the guy calling the shots for the ownership group is in his mid 20s and knows probably next to nothing about business.

When Mitchell walks for nothing in the summer of 2025 it MIGHT be a wake-up call to the coaching staff, front office, and ownership but I wouldn't hold my breath.

I don't fear Altman being indecisive and our ability to recruit our next coach will depend how he handles JBB. I fear him being pushed in to doing it without a plan in place that just locks us in to some other guy for 2+ years.

We can do worse than Bickerstaff if we try. A team like the Cavs needs to find right guy at the right time when he's actually available. Finding someone clearly better that wants to coach the team is the tricky thing.

Or else we'll just take another leap of faith on someone with current or past ties to the organization.

I don't think any coaching candidate would fault Koby or the Cavs if in the hypothetical Jb fails in the postseason for the 3rd consecutive season. 3 strikes and you're out. The steady regular season improvement can be pointed to but it is not the end goal.

I look at it a lot like the Scott hiring with the LBJ uncertainty. Mitchell is clearly nowhere near LBJ's level but he is still the clear best player on this current squad. Until Mitchell is traded or locked up long term, I wouldn't personally lock any coach up long term. Doesn't mean I wouldn't want to see some other coach give it a try. It could be Joerger on a Vogel Lakers style contract. Maybe give him 3 years but see if that 3rd season can be an option or not fully guaranteed.

[jbk1234]

The problem is you're simultaneously criticizing JBB for
- not having his star players in good enough shape to not get tired on an ordinary star player load of 35-36 minutes a game (which is where Garland and Allen are since the ASB)
- playing his players too much

You know how you get in better shape? Either you do a ton of off-court cardio, or you play through being tired in games. One or the other. But a lot of it is part of the physical maturation process that older guys can manage better than younger guys.

This is all fine and good but the learn to play tired has some pretty serious limitations. First, dead legs are dead legs. You can learn to play through lactic acid build up, to the point of throwing up to rid your body of stomach acid, but it doesn't follow that the accuracy on your jump shot will remain the same.

Second, there's always the risk of injury. Even guys like Strus and Mitchell, who fit the Ironman prototype, are subject to the physical limitations of tendons, cartilage, etc. LBJ had no problem shutting himself down during the regular season in order to avoid injury. If you have players who struggle to be proactive when it comes to rest, it's your job to do it for them.

Third, not everyone is built for it. It's s the coach's job to know that and adjust accordingly. For all the talk about Heat culture, there are guys on that roster who can't play 40 mpg for multiple games without hitting a serious wall. Spo understands this and doesn't play them 40 mpg.

Shouldn't athletes be building up endurance and stamina outside of the game where their performance can be controlled, monitored, fueled properly?

But the problem is simpler I think.

What's the track record of JBB cutting the rotation and piling up the minutes on the core?

Does the team play at a higher level when he does that? Do they have more energy at the end of games? Do they build up their resistance to injury?

I sure don't think so.

But JBB just isn't going to bet his career on Craig Porter Jr giving him 16 good minutes in the playoffs ... seems he's got himself wrapped up in a nifty catch-22 that won't end until someone running the team unravels the causes & effects going on.

Just based on my personal observations over the last 20+ years, there's a lot less on-the-court resting over the course of an 82 game season. A 20 point lead isn't that safe in the 3 point era. The advent of the play-in has more teams competing for longer and harder. Playing hard every game is a lot more taxing than coasting for half a game, or even half the games after the allstar break.

[JonFromVA]

Too bad the guy running the front office is an indecisive drunk because it is 100% his call.

Which is also unfortunate because the guy calling the shots for the ownership group is in his mid 20s and knows probably next to nothing about business.

When Mitchell walks for nothing in the summer of 2025 it MIGHT be a wake-up call to the coaching staff, front office, and ownership but I wouldn't hold my breath.

I don't fear Altman being indecisive and our ability to recruit our next coach will depend how he handles JBB. I fear him being pushed in to doing it without a plan in place that just locks us in to some other guy for 2+ years.

We can do worse than Bickerstaff if we try. A team like the Cavs needs to find right guy at the right time when he's actually available. Finding someone clearly better that wants to coach the team is the tricky thing.

Or else we'll just take another leap of faith on someone with current or past ties to the organization.

I don't think any coaching candidate would fault Koby or the Cavs if in the hypothetical Jb fails in the postseason for the 3rd consecutive season. 3 strikes and you're out. The steady regular season improvement can be pointed to but it is not the end goal.

I look at it a lot like the Scott hiring with the LBJ uncertainty. Mitchell is clearly nowhere near LBJ's level but he is still the clear best player on this current squad. Until Mitchell is traded or locked up long term, I wouldn't personally lock any coach up long term. Doesn't mean I wouldn't want to see some other coach give it a try. It could be Joerger on a Vogel Lakers style contract. Maybe give him 3 years but see if that 3rd season can be an option or not fully guaranteed.

Well, just like last year we failed in a way that let him put the blame on the players. The narrative was they weren't tough enough, not man enough ... not that he over-used the few players he trusted, ran them in to the ground, and failed to prepare for his roster for the adjustments he was going to need to make.

Similar kind of thing could happen again.

[JujitsuFlip]

I don't fear Altman being indecisive and our ability to recruit our next coach will depend how he handles JBB. I fear him being pushed in to doing it without a plan in place that just locks us in to some other guy for 2+ years.

We can do worse than Bickerstaff if we try. A team like the Cavs needs to find right guy at the right time when he's actually available. Finding someone clearly better that wants to coach the team is the tricky thing.

Or else we'll just take another leap of faith on someone with current or past ties to the organization.

I don't think any coaching candidate would fault Koby or the Cavs if in the hypothetical Jb fails in the postseason for the 3rd consecutive season. 3 strikes and you're out. The steady regular season improvement can be pointed to but it is not the end goal.

I look at it a lot like the Scott hiring with the LBJ uncertainty. Mitchell is clearly nowhere near LBJ's level but he is still the clear best player on this current squad. Until Mitchell is traded or locked up long term, I wouldn't personally lock any coach up long term. Doesn't mean I wouldn't want to see some other coach give it a try. It could be Joerger on a Vogel Lakers style contract. Maybe give him 3 years but see if that 3rd season can be an option or not fully guaranteed.

Well, just like last year we failed in a way that let him put the blame on the players. The narrative was they weren't tough enough, not man enough ... not that he over-used the few players he trusted, ran them in to the ground, and failed to prepare for his roster for the adjustments he was going to need to make.

Similar kind of thing could happen again.

But anyone can see through that, if they want to. Jb is not some famous illusionist who has everyone fooled. How he handled that series loss and his comments following it prove more about himself than the team. The guy took zero accountability and has all the signs of a terrible leader. If someone told me Jb had an iq of 80, I wouldn't be shocked.

The only 2 people Jb has fooled are a drunk and a 20 something year old kid; potetinally also his apologists. Anyone else can easily see right through this guy's excuses and finger pointing.